Jelco 750 vs Modified stock for slxx

[indus]

Hi there

A few months ago I bought a very good condition second hand Jelco 750 for my 1210. I was adviced this was a very good tonearm for the 1210 and to get better would involve spending quite a bit more cash. (ie SME, OL, FF etc)

I haven't got around to having it fitted yet. In the meantime somebody else has told me that I'd be better off having the stock arm modified ( I presume they meant fully rewired and perhaps KAB fluid damper?)

Their logic was that a well fettled stock arm would be more or less on par with the Jelco, but would have the advantage of retaining the better vta adjustment facility. Even if the Jelco was marginally better sonically than the modified techie this would be outweighed by the vta advantage.


I'm getting to the point of finishing with modding the techie as it is sounding very nice now. I just need to make a decision on what to do with the arm so I can kick back and just enjoy the music.

At present the mods are

1) Iso feet

2) FF Anchromat

3) Vantage PSU

4) AT 440 cart

5) I have just fitted the vantage bearing and will be auditioning it this week to see if I like it

6) I need to decide between the Vantage platter and FF one ( Need to give Marco a bell to chat about that some time soon)


Many thanks:)

[Wakefield Turntables]

with regards to 6). The FF platter mat is the best I've heard and I've experimented with rubber/sorbothane/steel/cork/poron/felt and even nothing there at all.

Hope this helps.

PS make sure you get the special 1210 version that's 5mm thick if you decide to buy one.

[chris@panteg]

I think he means the FF platter vs the Vantage bonded stock platter ?

[indus]

Yes indeed. I have the FF platter mat, the choice is between the FF or Vantage platter.

Anyway, that's another discussion! Any thoughts on the tonearm dilemma?

[Wakefield Turntables]

:doh: mis-read the thread, apologies guys. (double duh! :doh::doh:)

[kininigin]

Hi david,

I guess alot will depend,on the type of carts you may use in the future.

The jelco being a high mass,vs the technics low/medium mass, i think.

I have used both,and much prefer the jelco,as it suits the cart i'm using.Since you allready have the jelco,i would say get it installed and enjoy.

[Ammonite Audio]

I've been there and in my view there is no contest - the Jelco will always be a better tonearm. The standard arm is OK, and can be helped along a bit if fettled by someone like Audio Origami, but the Jelco is simply a more musical beast. Since you have the arm already, there is no excuse not to give it a whirl.

[chris@panteg]

If you have no plans to use anything other than a good MM , then a souped up stock will be just fine , but you may as well try the Jelco out surely ?

[Marco]

Hi David,


I haven't got around to having it fitted yet. In the meantime somebody else has told me that I'd be better off having the stock arm modified ( I presume they meant fully rewired and perhaps KAB fluid damper?)


:nono:

Whoever told you that obviously haven't carried out a proper comparison between both arms! I originally bought my T/T with all the KAB mods fitted, and lived with the Cardas-rewired, fluid-damped stock arm, for 8 months, before going for a Jelco 750.

The improvement from doing so wasn't subtle... The problem with the stock Techy arm is the rather resonant arm-tube (in terms of its main resonance mode), which gives the presentation a slightly 'shouty' and 'uncouth' quality, as well as a rather 'tinselly', forward sounding top-end, in comparison with a more sonically 'well-behaved' tonearm.

All those traits are obvious when you've lived with both arms for a period of time. *However*, you'll only really experience them when using a quality MC cartridge, so if you're going to stick with MMs, you're probably just as well tweaking the stock arm.


6) I need to decide between the Vantage platter and FF one ( Need to give Marco a bell to chat about that some time soon)


Please do, as I'm sure you'll find the conversation most enlightening! ;)

Marco.

[indus]

Thanks.

The only problem with giving the the Jelco a 'whirl' is that I'm not able to fit it myself and so need to pay somebody to do it. So there are cost implications for me if it turns out not to be the right decision. And of course the cost of armboards etc.

Marco, the person who made this suggestion reckoned I wouldn't ever like a MC. I've never heard one but he said given the 'energetic', bass heavy music I listen to mc carts wouldn't be suited. So are we saying that unless a mc is going to be used the jelco offers little over a well modified stock arm?

(look forward to a chat about the platter!)

[Reid Malenfant]

Marco, the person who made this suggestion reckoned I wouldn't ever like a MC. I've never heard one but he said given the 'energetic', bass heavy music I listen to mc carts wouldn't be suited. So are we saying that unless a mc is going to be used the jelco offers little over a well modified stock arm?
:scratch: WTF, an MC can do as good bass as an MM cartridge :eyebrows:

It's all down to load matching & synergy between the cartridge & arm...

No idea who told you this, I probably don't know them :)

[Marco]

The only problem with giving the the Jelco a 'whirl' is that I'm not able to fit it myself and so need to pay somebody to do it. So there are cost implications for me if it turns out not to be the right decision. And of course the cost of armboards etc.


As Hugo has said, you've bought the arm now, so my advice would be to get an appropriate armboard (from the place I told you about), and get the job done ASAP, quite simply because whether you use an MM or an MC cartridge, the Jelco is the far better arm, so you'll have that part of your T/T 'sorted'.

I'm sure that if you were to post a thread in the DIY room, asking if anyone in the London area would fit the arm for you, for the cost of their fuel, someone would be willing to help :)


Marco, the person who made this suggestion reckoned I wouldn't ever like a MC. I've never heard one but he said given the 'energetic', bass heavy music I listen to mc carts wouldn't be suited.


Lol... Who is this so-called 'expert'? What he's telling you is a bit off the mark. I know where he's coming from, but as usual with these things, it only tells part of the story. You simply need to find the right MC cartridge, and fit it on an arm that compliments it. Your phono stage is easily good enough to support MMs or very high quality MCs.

In terms of obtaining the 'right' MC cartridge, that's why I recommended the DL-103 to you before, as it'll suit the Jelco perfectly (with a bit of extra mass applied to your Sumiko headshell), and it has all the "energetic" bass you could wish for, together with the ability to make your dance music really boogie and come alive. You'd love it...

Honestly, I can say with some certainty, that the Jelco/103 combo would blow you away, and offer a quality of sound reproduction far in excess of that capable of the stock arm, and almost any MM cartridge. Let there be no mistake whatsoever about that!


(look forward to a chat about the platter!)

I await your call :)

Marco.

[indus]

Ok, comments noted and appreciated. I will have the Jelco arm fitted.

Many thanks for your time

[Marco]

You're very welcome.

Smart boy - keep us updated of progress! :)

Marco.

[JazzBones]

Ok, comments noted and appreciated. I will have the Jelco arm fitted.

Many thanks for your time

When you have your arm fitted, or any other component, by a third party make sure you stand, watch and ask questions where necessary, you will be surprised how easy it is and no way approaches rocket science. Remember, all of us started from not knowing how to do a job on the Tekko and believe me you will save money, time, and gain alot of knowledge along the way. What you need right now is the CONFIDENCE to tackle a job, something which you lack at the moment and that I say as an encouragement and NOT a slur on your abilities :)

Get stuck in mate, you'll learn something new and have fun at the same time :eyebrows:

Ron
:)

[indus]

Ron, those are very wise words. Initially I was too scared to do anything on the tech. After I saw Richard take the top off to expose the bearing I felt more confident. So on Saturday I changed the bearing myself. I know to most this is easy but it was a big deal for somebody like me that avoids all diy!

Maybe I should 'man up' and change the arm myself. The one thing I'd really like to try and avoid is soldering. I presume changing the arm will involve soldering?

Thanks

[kininigin]

I say go for it.There are plenty of videos on youtube,on how to take apart a technics correctly and safely.I have taken mine apart enough times now,to do it in my sleep :lol:

You will not need a soldering iron,just some screwdrivers and allen keys.I replaced my tone-arm,something i have never done before.I also set it up,again something i have never done before.

I feel i learnt alot from the process (with alittle help on the way).I think it would be great,for you to have a go at this.It will give you a great sense of satisfaction,not to mention saving money and time.

Just take things,slowly and methodically and you cannot really go wrong.
There's plenty here that can coach you through it,if needed.

So stop fannying about,and get that jelco fitted :D

[Chivas]

Ron, those are very wise words. Initially I was too scared to do anything on the tech. After I saw Richard take the top off to expose the bearing I felt more confident. So on Saturday I changed the bearing myself. I know to most this is easy but it was a big deal for somebody like me that avoids all diy!

Maybe I should 'man up' and change the arm myself. The one thing I'd really like to try and avoid is soldering. I presume changing the arm will involve soldering?

Thanks

You should! It is quite satisfying and probably won't be the last time you change an arm on your deck. I did mine for the 1st time a couple of years ago starting from scratch. And changed a few more after that and it still plays fine to my ears, or let me put it this way, I don't have shreds of vinyl flying all over the place every time I put a record on.

I'm also happy to help if you get stuck, free of charge. I'm in SW19.

Chivas

[JazzBones]

Ron, those are very wise words. Initially I was too scared to do anything on the tech. After I saw Richard take the top off to expose the bearing I felt more confident. So on Saturday I changed the bearing myself. I know to most this is easy but it was a big deal for somebody like me that avoids all diy!

Maybe I should 'man up' and change the arm myself. The one thing I'd really like to try and avoid is soldering. I presume changing the arm will involve soldering?

Thanks

Good on ya David, thats the way to go mate :) Changing the arm is a mechanical thing, undoing screw/bolts etc, fitting the accommodating tone arm plate then the tone arm.... no soldering required. Just work on a flat secure surface, with good light on the job in hand, and use little plastic bags marked where they came from as you take them off, reverse the order when putting everything back again. The most delicate cartridge is the one item in the chain to be EXCTREMELY careful about when handling and fitting but Jelco make it easier by having an SME type detachable head shell. Just stay calm and take your time over each job and check your work out. You've done the bearing bit and that was straight forward, yes?

Now join the noble order of 'Techy Twiddlers and Twitchers', kneel while Marco anoints you with high grade bearing oil:lol:

Have fun and be proud of yourself,

Ron