Help needed to improve my DIY rack please. [Archive]

Martinh

17-06-2012, 09:02

Hi all,

Not sure if this should be in this part of the forum or in the DIY section...

A few years ago, I built my DIY system rack, using parts from an old Technics "hifi" rack.

I used the Technics verticals and added my own solid beech top, bottom and middle shelf.

Now that I'm building a much better system, I'd like to make sure that I'm getting the best from it :eyebrows:

I noticed when plumbing in my Bushmaster that the vibrations from my Virgin V+ hard drive (sitting on middle shelf) can be strongly felt, which can't be good.

BTW the unit sits directly on the carpeted floor, which is solid concrete.

The TV on top is a Plasma, so it BLOODY heavy!

Here she is, as of this morning:

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/rack1.jpg

So, my question is - are there some easy improvements that I can make or should I just buy/make a better one?

p.s. i cant afford the £600 + for a new HIFI Racks Podium, which would be my choice if money were no object :(

Cheers,

bobbasrah

17-06-2012, 09:20

I noticed when plumbing in my Bushmaster that the vibrations from my Virgin V+ hard drive (sitting on middle shelf) can be strongly felt, which can't be good.

Concrete and the rack will be solid enough Martin, the question is whether you want to upgrade anyway or address the only problem you've raised...
Isolate the hard drive on sorbothane/cork/insoles/squash balls ? :eyebrows:

StanleyB

17-06-2012, 09:32

Put a vibration damper (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Washing-Machine-Anti-Vibration-Feet-x-4-for-appliances-dampers-/190549284550?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Washing_Machines_Dr yers_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item2c5d9f56c6) under each leg of the Virgin box.

Covenant

17-06-2012, 09:51

Wakefield Turntables

17-06-2012, 10:40

Martin,

I have some 6mm Sorbothane which I can sell you cheaply, I have my ATC speakers sitting on some of the stuff and I have have some sitting under my phonostage and preamp. You DO get a small improvement, but as I tend to think, every little helps. ;)

Andy

Martinh

17-06-2012, 18:29

Don't you just love solutions that lack the audiophile price markup? :)

Yes, they are only a fiver! Can't be any good, can they? :scratch: :)

Actually, the HDD problem is easy to fix if i put the amp on the middle shelf and the virgin box on the bottom with the DVD and tuner :doh:

The back panels will need to be tweaked to allow the speaker cables to come out straight.

Then theres the other problem around the back to deal with - bring back the all-in-one music centre, I say :lol:

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/rack2.jpg

Reid Malenfant

17-06-2012, 18:35

Then theres the other problem around the back to deal with - bring back the all-in-one music centre, I say :lol:

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/rack2.jpg
Think yourself lucky is all I can say, you ain't seen nothing - yet! :eek:

You'd have kittens if you saw all the wiring inside (& outside come to think of it :eyebrows:) my rack :rolleyes:

I have a pile of cables about 2.5ft³ that I removed when I changed things & went full HDMI :mental:

Martinh

17-06-2012, 19:09

Think yourself lucky is all I can say, you ain't seen nothing - yet! :eek:

You'd have kittens if you saw all the wiring inside (& outside come to think of it :eyebrows:) my rack :rolleyes:

I have a pile of cables about 2.5ft³ that I removed when I changed things & went full HDMI :mental:

Can't wait to see some photos of that Mark.

Thing is I'm not sure whether some of those cables are actually doing anything :rolleyes:

Will sit down and have a sort out during the week.

Cheers,

Reid Malenfant

17-06-2012, 19:20

If I was you I'd at least attempt to isolate bits of kit from each other. I'm sure you'll be able to find something like 1/4" thick felt or similar on ebay. While it's not a great idea to stack kit on top of each other, if you use something like the felt I mentioned they'll get a bit more isolation.

If you have the space buy a few Wickes paving slabs, brush them down or wash them down & allow to dry & then paint them satin black using an oil based paint. Then use some of the aforementioned felt for feet & you have a fairly well isolated shelf.

It's not rocket science, you just need to do the best you can on a small as budget as possible :)

While I'm sure other more expensive methods could be better, you won't get much more of a bang for a buck as what I just mentioned :eyebrows:

Ali Tait

17-06-2012, 19:39

Here's something cheap to try-

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sandblaster_e.html

Reid Malenfant

17-06-2012, 19:51

Here's something cheap to try-

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sandblaster_e.html
Good stuff, I reckon that could be made for about £3 each (assuming Wickes slabs haven't gone astronomical in price), & you are willing to do some woodwork. Feet might add to it though, still cheap as & a superb solution imho!

Nice one Ali :thumbsup:

MCRU

17-06-2012, 21:28

Good stuff, I reckon that could be made for about £3 each (assuming Wickes slabs haven't gone astronomical in price), & you are willing to do some woodwork. Feet might add to it though, still cheap as & a superb solution imho!

Nice one Ali :thumbsup:

I thought the poster wanted a better stand? Look on the TNT site for the "flexi"

I am just building another for myself, if you need any help let me know, its basically 4 stainless steel threaded bars 1 metre long with as many shelves as you need made from MDF, each shelf is held in place with stainless nuts and washers, very sturdy and does the job for beer money. I have made 5 or 6 over the years, for AV and HI-Fi.

Ali Tait

17-06-2012, 22:07

Ali Tait

17-06-2012, 22:08

I thought the poster wanted a better stand? Look on the TNT site for the "flexi"

I am just building another for myself, if you need any help let me know, its basically 4 stainless steel threaded bars 1 metre long with as many shelves as you need made from MDF, each shelf is held in place with stainless nuts and washers, very sturdy and does the job for beer money. I have made 5 or 6 over the years, for AV and HI-Fi.

Nah, he wanted to improve the stand he has.

Marco

17-06-2012, 22:23

Then theres the other problem around the back to deal with - bring back the all-in-one music centre, I say :lol:

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/rack2.jpg

OMG...! :eek:

You need some serious help with cable dressing, me old son!! :D

I understand why you have to use the type of stand you've got, but that's the problem with 'low' equipment racks: all the cables end up like spaghetti, spilled on the floor... Ideally, what you want is a 'tall' rack (or racks), so that all your cables hang neatly in 'free space', and well off the floor. Honestly, that would improve the sound from your system no end!

But your TV would have to go somewhere else, which I suspect is a non-starter.

Marco.

Martinh

17-06-2012, 22:45

Nah, he wanted to improve the stand he has.

Thanks for all the suggestions,

Well, it's a toss up between keeping the existing one and adding some type of isolation to the components or building a new one. I'll probably go down the rubber feet route, as sand boxes and paving slabs just won't pass the domestic bliss test :lol:

The existing one actually looks better in real life than in the photos :)

Looked at the flexi and ruled it out on looks - its got to look good 'cos it's in my lounge :rolleyes:

Then I found this DIY rack thread on another (inferior) forum. It basically a copy of the hifiacks podium Click here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/home-cinema-building-diy/1454981-3-tier-oak-av-rack.html)

He makes it look soooo easy...

Martinh

17-06-2012, 22:54

OMG...! :eek:

You need some serious help with cable dressing, me old son!! :D

I understand why you have to use the type of stand you've got, but that's the problem with 'low' equipment racks: all the cables end up like spaghetti, spilled on the floor... Ideally, what you want is a 'tall' rack (or racks), so that all your cables hang nicely in 'free space', and well off the floor. Honestly, that would improve the sound from your system no end!

But your TV would have to go somewhere else, which I suspect is a non-starter.

Marco.

Hi Marco,

Yes, you are right. I need the "A/V style" rack for the equipment and the TV.

I do try and tidy it up occasionally, but I've been moving bits of equipment around a lot recently and it's got tied up in knots :)

I'm worrying that having signal cables and mains cables mixed together isn't doing me any favours. Should I worry?

Also, is it good to coil up cables to lose the excess length?

Maybe I can find some sort of cable management system?

Cheers,

Marco

17-06-2012, 23:23

Hi Martin,

I'm worrying that having signal cables and mains cables mixed together isn't doing me any favours. Should I worry?

'Worry' is probably rather too strong a term, but it certainly won't be doing the sound any favours. If you can, try having them so that the cables cross together at right angles, but otherwise are kept as far apart as possible.

Also, disconnect and remove any cables which aren't used very often - that applies to both mains and signal cables, and try using separate mains blocks for your AV and 2-channel kit. Your system will sound better that way.

I could go on! :eyebrows:

Also, is it good to coil up cables to lose the excess length?

Not really. The best thing is not to have any excess length in the first place. If you can cut cables down to their optimal length, and re-terminate them, then that would be the ideal thing to do. It depends on how good you are with a soldering iron...

Either that, or sell cables which are too long, and use the money to buy ones instead that are the right length.

Maybe I can find some sort of cable management system?

The best "cable management system" is YOU! ;)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

17-06-2012, 23:37

For the best cheap feet on the planet - assemble yerself some of these:
Wazoo's Klub Feet (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12705)

Four squash balls + 4 x 49p for the glass

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2333/dscf3604d.jpg

Marco

17-06-2012, 23:42

Lurvely... But howzat gunna tidy up his cables, daftee?

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

17-06-2012, 23:46

Well, he can ask that in a thread entitled 'How Can I Tidy Up My Cables?'
This thread's called 'Help Needed to Improve My DIY Rack Please'.

........and, yes, those cables need sorting!

Martinh

18-06-2012, 12:14

Hi Martin,

'Worry' is probably rather too strong a term, but it certainly won't be doing the sound any favours. If you can, try having them so that the cables cross together at right angles, but otherwise are kept as far apart as possible.

Also, disconnect and remove any cables which aren't used very often - that applies to both mains and signal cables, and try using separate mains blocks for your AV and 2-channel kit. Your system will sound better that way.

I could go on! :eyebrows:

Not really. The best thing is not to have any excess length in the first place. If you can cut cables down to their optimal length, and re-terminate them, then that would be the ideal thing to do. It depends on how good you are with a soldering iron...

Either that, or sell cables which are too long, and use the money to buy ones instead that are the right length.

The best "cable management system" is YOU! ;)

Marco.

Thanks for the tips.

I've already moved the amp up to join the bushmaster and streamer, so all the music bits are together. Will spend a couple of hours tidying up the spaghetti later today ;)

One other question - I have a dedicated mains spur plus the std ring main behind the rack. Should I put the amp, dac and streamer on the dedicated supply and the rest on the ring or use some other mix?

Also, can you recommend a reasonably cheap but good mains block and perhaps better mains leads? I don't want to spend a lot of cash on this at the moment.

Cheers,

Ali Tait

18-06-2012, 12:18

I'd probably put the amp on the ring and run your source components from the dedicated. Dunno if you'd notice any difference though.

Marco

19-06-2012, 23:28

Hi Martin,

Sorry I missed this...

One other question - I have a dedicated mains spur plus the std ring main behind the rack. Should I put the amp, dac and streamer on the dedicated supply and the rest on the ring or use some other mix?

What I'd do first, to see what happens, is plug one mains block into your dedicated spur, and then plug all of your audio-only non-computer related equipment into that, and another mains block (or even a 2 or 3-way adapter, if you only have one mains block) into the ring main, and plug all of your computer-related and AV kit into that, thus keeping both as separate as possible.

The fact is, anything which uses a cheap switch-mode power supply (TVs, most streamers, computers, etc) will inject noise into your house mains supply, which will in turn, 'infect' the rest of the kit sharing the same supply.

Doing what I've suggested will provide some isolation for your more sensitive kit, but ideally you'd want two dedicated mains spurs for your system, and so you'd do as I've suggested above, but then the kit currently plugged into the ring main would also get the sonic benefit of running off of a dedicated spur.

There's lots I could suggest here, but try that first and see what happens :)

Also, can you recommend a reasonably cheap but good mains block and perhaps better mains leads? I don't want to spend a lot of cash on this at the moment.

Yes, check out the products on both of these websites:

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/

I use a (modified) Mark Grant 6-way distribution block, but both sites offer very good value for money (effective) solutions, for either blocks or mains leads.

Hope this helps :cool:

Marco.

Martinh

22-06-2012, 15:10

Hi Marco,

Thanks for your help.

I've been a busy boy and have removed what seemed like a mile of excess cables from the back of my rack and then tidied up the remaining cables.

Looks so much better and with a bit of cable shortening this weekend, we'll be finished.

For the power side, I've got my amp plugged into the dedicated spur, the Bushmaster on battery power and the streamer into the ring, together with the TV, DVD and tuner.

Not sure if it's made any difference to the sound but it feels better :)

Cheers,

Marco

24-06-2012, 09:57

No worries, Martin. It should sound better.

Any chance of some updated pics (from a few angles), showing how things are now, with a nice loving close-up of your mains block(s), spur/ring plug-in arrangement, just to see if there's anything else that could be improved :)

Marco.

Martinh

27-06-2012, 18:51

Hi all,

These bad boys arrived today -£30 each from eBay delivered. These units feature in some pretty expensive mains blocks, so the basic quality must be good, I reckon.

They've got std cables and mains plugs at the moment, but I intend to treat them to some Belden cable and mk silver plugs and fuses (im a DIY kinda guy). Should be a major step up from the Argos jobbies I have at the mo'.;)

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/ext.jpg

I'm going to use one for the tv, bushmaster and streamer SMPS and virgin box and the other for the amp, tuner, DVD etc.

Will spend some time this weekend and post the results later,

realysm42

27-06-2012, 19:14

I've got the 8 gang version of those with:

*fully silver plated internals and connections

*the power button disabled

*uprated cable and

*silver toughplug

I'm very happy with it.

Reid Malenfant

27-06-2012, 19:57

Make sure you disable the neon in the power switches ;)

Martinh

27-06-2012, 20:08

Cheers chaps,

Of course mine won't have the silver plated internals :( but for around £50 per block, I can live with that.

I was thinking that since the Belden or Lapp cable will be 2.5 mm2, I might perhaps hard wire the amp/DVD/tuner block and do away with the wall socket altogether. I've got a 16A MCB at the fuse board, so all should be good, safety-wise, won't it?

What do you think?

Reid Malenfant

27-06-2012, 20:15

Martinh

27-06-2012, 20:33

It'd be the same size as the cable in the ring feeding it, yes.

While I have plans to do things myself I honestly couldn't turn round to you & say it's 100% good to go!

I have been in arguements previously where people think that the fuse in the mains plug is there to protect the equipment, even when a much bigger current carrying capacity cable has been fitted & there happens to be an IEC connector on the equipment & it's internally fused :doh:

If you understand what I just said then I'm sure you understand :lol: I just can't be dealing with people that don't!

So I'll shut up :cool:

Thanks Mark,

I'm 110% with you on the the purpose of the fuse, so no probs there :)

Its going to be hard wired to my dedicated hifi circuit, which is a radial with 2.5mm2 twin and earth. I should have put in 4 mm2 but you live and learn :doh:

Do you know if anyone else on AOS does this and if it's sonically better?

Cheers,

Reid Malenfant

27-06-2012, 20:35

Do you know if anyone else on AOS does this and if it's sonically better?

Cheers,
Yes & yes :D

Martinh

27-06-2012, 20:40

Yes & yes :D

Good answer! Brief and to the point.

I was thinking of investing £3.33 on one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-1-gang-20a-flex-outlet-plate-white/70006

... or is there a £50 audiophile version? :lol:

Reid Malenfant

27-06-2012, 20:46

Good answer! Brief and to the point.

I was thinking of investing £3.33 on one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-1-gang-20a-flex-outlet-plate-white/70006

... or is there a £50 audiophile version? :lol:
Look on ebay for a cable gland that'll accept your 2.5mm² cable & fit that to the cover. If you can find a steel patress & steel front cover all the better, as it'll be screened :)

Hope that helps :cool:

Martinh

27-06-2012, 21:10

Look on ebay for a cable gland that'll accept your 2.5mm² cable & fit that to the cover. If you can find a steel patress & steel front cover all the better, as it'll be screened :)

Hope that helps :cool:

Cheers dude, I owe you one :cool:

EDIT:sorry for all the questions - does this Deoxit stuff work and is it worth me getting a can of D5 spray?

Cheers,

Reid Malenfant

27-06-2012, 21:18

EDIT:sorry for all the questions - does this Deoxit stuff work and is it worth me getting a can of D5 spray?

Cheers,
I have a can of it here, never used the stuff, but will when I pull gear out of my rack & refit it.

Lets just say that I trust the people that recommended it :)

So while I can't right now say how good it's efficacy is, I have little doubt that it'll improve things...

Besides which, clean connections make total sense :cool:

Martinh

28-06-2012, 20:09

I have a can of it here, never used the stuff, but will when I pull gear out of my rack & refit it.

Lets just say that I trust the people that recommended it :)

So while I can't right now say how good it's efficacy is, I have little doubt that it'll improve things...

Besides which, clean connections make total sense :cool:

Yes, it got to be better with everything clean.

Have ordered Lapp cable, mains plugs, IEC connectors and Deoxit today form MCRU today.

Should then have 2 Super dooper mains blocks and a mains lead for my amp for £135 all in.

Better get the soldering iron warmed up :)

MCRU

28-06-2012, 20:26

Yes, it got to be better with everything clean.

Have ordered Lapp cable, mains plugs, IEC connectors and Deoxit today form MCRU today.

Should then have 2 Super dooper mains blocks and a mains lead for my amp for £135 all in.

Better get the soldering iron warmed up :)

Hi,
First of all before you do anything you need to get a security or safety screwdriver bit as the blocks you just bought use special screw heads inside so you won't be able to open it up without one, here they are on ebay. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33PC-SECURITY-BIT-SET-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-TOOL-HOLDER-TORX-STAR-HEX-60mm-HOLDER-/160729342041?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item256c372059#ht_3073wt_1397)

After that if you need any help pm me as I work with these every day and have sold 100's!

The de-oxit spray is an absolute must for treating the contact strips inside the blocks. :)

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/IMG_2926-1.jpg

Martinh

28-06-2012, 20:44

Hi,
First of all before you do anything you need to get a security or safety screwdriver bit as the blocks you just bought use special screw heads inside so you won't be able to open it up without one, here they are on ebay. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33PC-SECURITY-BIT-SET-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-TOOL-HOLDER-TORX-STAR-HEX-60mm-HOLDER-/160729342041?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item256c372059#ht_3073wt_1397)

After that if you need any help pm me as I work with these every day and have sold 100's!

The de-oxit spray is an absolute must for treating the contact strips inside the blocks. :)

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/IMG_2926-1.jpg

Thanks David,

On my order, I didn't specify the fuse rating for the MCRU 3 pin plugs - if it's not too late, I need 13A ones please.

Thanks for the offer of help, will see how I get on ;)

EDIT: just ordered some security bits - thanks for the tip.