View Full Version : Bushmaster DAC burn-in
magiccarpetride
16-06-2012, 19:09
OK, we're now stepping into the voodoo territory, so those of you who are squeamish, look away.
My first experience that convinced me that the much-maligned burn-in phenomenon is possibly real was two years ago, with the Beresford Caiman DAC. This time around, I seem to be experiencing similar phenomenon with the Beresford Bushmaster DAC.
As I've described on another thread, out of the box experience with the Bushmaster was nothing short of a revelation. Stunning product, incredibly life-like presentation, and all the other good stuff. Save for the highs. For some reason, in my audio chain, this DAC seemed a bit shy on the highs.
As always, knowledgeable members on this forum jumped in with ingenious suggestions. I've penciled them down, and decided to try them out, but not before giving the DAC a bit more of a good old burn-in time.
Yesterday, at around 40+ hours of burn-in time, I sat down for a critical listen. Decided to play Santana's "Abraxas". The first thing that caught my attention on the opening track ("Singing Winds, Crying Beasts") was how much more three dimensional the sound became with the additional burn-in time. It almost sounded like I was listening to the surround sound system. All the instruments had real physical and palpable presence and weight, something I really delight in.
Alas, the highs, end especially the chimes and bells that are chock full in this song, were quite subdued and rolled off. Oh well, I thought to myself, this little sacrifice is definitely worth the admission ticket to all the other scrumptious goodies.
Continued to listen to "Abraxas", and then something amazing happened: in the middle of "Oye Como Va" (the fourth song on the album), it felt as if someone had suddenly removed a thick blanket that was hanging in front of my speakers. Or as if someone pulled the hearing protection plugs out of my ears. All of a sudden, the cymbals soared and the little scratchy metal percussive instruments came to full life! Not only did I suddenly gain back all the metallic clarity of these instruments, I instantly started hearing way more details and nuances than I ever heard before.
How do I know I wasn't going mental at that point? Easy. My wife, who was sitting next to me working on her iPad, perked her pretty head and asked me: "What happened here?" She confirmed that suddenly we're hearing way more cymbals and accents than ever before (I mean, everyone is totally familiar with that song, after hearing it for thousands of time in their life).
So OK, from that moment on, the Bushmaster had broken into the new territory, and is now sounding way superior to the Caiman, even in the high frequency range. Much more convincing, much more realistic, not to mention the incredible three dimensional presentation. I could not be happier!
To me, this DAC definitely does need solid burn-in time, there's absolutely no question. The difference the way it sounded back on Tuesday and the way it sounds today is enormous. There is only one thing that is still confusing to me: whilst earlier on the Bushmaster made everything sound very non-digital (albeit with castrated and muffled highs), now it's back to sounding very digital. It kind of sounds like Caiman on steroids, but it does retain the same digital signature. What I mean by that is that there is no mistaking the sound coming out of the Bushmaster for the sound coming out of a decent turntable. It's not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I'm surprised that all those previous qualities (i.e. more brown, coppery cymbals) have now been supplanted with typical digital sounding cymbals (more silvery, metallic and brash sounding cymbals).
Overall, I must say I'm loving it, it definitely is worth every penny I paid for it, and then some.
P.S. Just to clarify, nothing, absolutely nothing changed in my audio system, save for piling up the burn-in hours on the Bushmaster.
jandl100
16-06-2012, 20:01
:thumbsup: Good that you are now hearing ALL of the Bushmaster's magic.
Stan's magic boxes almost always require running in, ime.
I fondly recall the very first Beresford DAC I bought - the 7510 mk2, way back in the mists of time :eyebrows: -- I was about to return it for a refund when I decided to let it burn-in overnight .... blimey :eek: what a difference. I've been a staunch fan of Stan's ever since. :)
Nice little write-up there, I am sorely tempted.........
The Grand Wazoo
16-06-2012, 20:28
Myles
Could you please amend your details to show your location? This is required of all members nowadays.
Thanks
Stratmangler
16-06-2012, 23:29
What's a busmaster?
The Grand Wazoo
16-06-2012, 23:30
It's like a Routemaster, only more bussy.
Wow. Amazing turn around.
Covenant
17-06-2012, 10:21
Alex, I do think you would benefit from a play with some alternative cables. I have already mentioned a digital interconnect that I wholeheartedly recommend. Try some silver analogue cables if you want to fine tune those cymbals, I can PM the details of the inexpensive ones I use if you like.
Alex, ..... Try some silver analogue cables if you want to fine tune those cymbals, I can PM the details of the inexpensive ones I use if you like.
Inexpensive silver cables - unbelievable!!! :stalks: :eek: :scratch: :D
Please put me on the same PM :) .
Dave.
Covenant
17-06-2012, 14:34
It was you that recommended them to me Dave!
It was you that recommended them to me Dave!
Jerry,
Ahhhh, from that I gather we're talking JohnandChris then - glad you like 'em but I'm not sure I'd call them 'inexpensive' but all things are relative I guess :) .
Cheers,
Dave.
magiccarpetride
17-06-2012, 17:19
Alex, I do think you would benefit from a play with some alternative cables. I have already mentioned a digital interconnect that I wholeheartedly recommend. Try some silver analogue cables if you want to fine tune those cymbals, I can PM the details of the inexpensive ones I use if you like.
Yeah, PM me. I'm not presently aware of any issues with my sound, but I know one thing -- there is always room for improvement;)
magiccarpetride
21-06-2012, 16:39
Yeah, PM me. I'm not presently aware of any issues with my sound, but I know one thing -- there is always room for improvement;)
Well call me crazy, but this burn-in business is driving me nuts. After I got all excited about the palpable improvement with the burn-in, I'm now experiencing some degradation in the sound quality with prolonged burn-in. I know I sound like a spoiled brat, but my only criterion is what I'm hearing, and right now, after about a week of burn-in time, my Bushmaster has again mellowed out and is sounding wimpy compared to the Caiman. Switching back and forth, I'm now hearing the Caiman kicking ass on the Bushman. That wasn't the case only two days ago!
So what's going on here? Why does the Bushman keep changing and morphing and flipping between being all authoritative sounding only to later on fizzle and mellow out? How much longer before it stabilizes?
Have you been taking your medication MCR?
Well call me crazy, but this burn-in business is driving me nuts. After I got all excited about the palpable improvement with the burn-in, I'm now experiencing some degradation in the sound quality with prolonged burn-in. I know I sound like a spoiled brat, but my only criterion is what I'm hearing, and right now, after about a week of burn-in time, my Bushmaster has again mellowed out and is sounding wimpy compared to the Caiman. Switching back and forth, I'm now hearing the Caiman kicking ass on the Bushman. That wasn't the case only two days ago!
So what's going on here? Why does the Bushman keep changing and morphing and flipping between being all authoritative sounding only to later on fizzle and mellow out? How much longer before it stabilizes?
Its the change in the weather often over looked with other non burnin factors.
wee tee cee
21-06-2012, 17:52
mcr,
I experienced exactly the same change after about a week. It turned soft and mushy, my BM went south from there and eventually shat itself.....are you getting any crackles yet or difficulty finding sources automatically.
Bizarrely mine has just started having an issue auto-finding my source...
wee tee cee
21-06-2012, 18:07
Oh dear! lets hope it doesn't go terminal.
Well call me crazy, but this burn-in business is driving me nuts. After I got all excited about the palpable improvement with the burn-in, I'm now experiencing some degradation in the sound quality with prolonged burn-in. I know I sound like a spoiled brat, but my only criterion is what I'm hearing, and right now, after about a week of burn-in time, my Bushmaster has again mellowed out and is sounding wimpy compared to the Caiman. Switching back and forth, I'm now hearing the Caiman kicking ass on the Bushman. That wasn't the case only two days ago!
So what's going on here? Why does the Bushman keep changing and morphing and flipping between being all authoritative sounding only to later on fizzle and mellow out? How much longer before it stabilizes?
Steve (Worrasf) in his earlier Bushmaster review thread said his BM was sounding great after 20 hours or so?
magiccarpetride
21-06-2012, 20:26
mcr,
I experienced exactly the same change after about a week. It turned soft and mushy, my BM went south from there and eventually shat itself.....are you getting any crackles yet or difficulty finding sources automatically.
Yes, holly crap! Very soft and mushy, like it lost all its balls. Last night it was running through all its blue lights like a headless chicken, back and forth, back and forth, not being able to latch onto a source that was playing! And yes, crackles in the right speaker! Is that it? What did you do, return it?
magiccarpetride
21-06-2012, 20:27
Have you been taking your medication MCR?
No, I've been only taking your medication.
maxrob200
22-06-2012, 00:50
Maybe a batch of faulty components in the BM production? Any ideas from the techie guys?
The Vinyl Adventure
22-06-2012, 06:27
Yes, holly crap! Very soft and mushy, like it lost all its balls. Last night it was running through all its blue lights like a headless chicken, back and forth, back and forth, not being able to latch onto a source that was playing! And yes, crackles in the right speaker! Is that it? What did you do, return it?
Have you contacted Stan directly Alex?
if you have a problem that would probably be the best way to get it sorted ... Especially concidering the quality of service he is well known to provide!
Mine has worked faultlessly since day one and after about 3 or 4 days of burn in/me adjusting to it, it doesn't seem to sound any different
StanleyB
22-06-2012, 06:54
Have you contacted Stan directly Alex?
if you have a problem that would probably be the best way to get it sorted ... Especially concidering the quality of service he is well known to provide!
I don't quite understand why the majority of the people who have experienced one or other problem have not done so. Instead they post their query on one or other forum and wait for advice from a forum member. You would have thought that they would have contacted the manufacturer as well.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-06-2012, 07:09
Common sence and an (even rudimentary) understanding of logic are seemingly elusive virtues Stan
icehockeyboy
22-06-2012, 07:23
I don't quite understand why the majority of the people who have experienced one or other problem have not done so. Instead they post their query on one or other forum and wait for advice from a forum member. You would have thought that they would have contacted the manufacturer as well.
It seems that they suffer from "forumitis" :doh:
I have had mine on almost continuously since around 4 pm last Monday, and, fingers crossed nothing happens, no downturn in quality, quite the opposite.
Whilst listening to The jazz groove.com I was amazed at the detail I was hearing, the breathyness of the sax, and the shimmer of cymbals, and the brush strokes on the snare drum, Fabulous! :eek:
Still early days, but I would echo Jerrys sentiments of its ability to see off many other, even hi end dacs.
One happy listener! :)
I don't quite understand why the majority of the people who have experienced one or other problem have not done so. Instead they post their query on one or other forum and wait for advice from a forum member. You would have thought that they would have contacted the manufacturer as well.
Possibly one of the downsides of the AoS appearing to be a marketing facility? I have seen this happen before to another manufacturer and it really becomes a double edge sword in the end.
Stick with it and I am sure that once resolved positive comments will flow again.
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
22-06-2012, 07:42
It's of very little use when several people post different questions that require individual answers. At least when you email a manufacturer for support, the different questions can be filtered and attended to on a case by case basis. On top of that even I have very limited time to surf the net or hang about on AoS all day reading each and every post.
It's of very little use when several people post different questions that require individual answers. At least when you email a manufacturer for support, the different questions can be filtered and attended to on a case by case basis. On top of that even I have very limited time to surf the net or hang about on AoS all day reading each and every post.
Then the answer appears to be very simple to me. Start a thread with common problems / resolutions to at least address a high proportion of the repetitive ones with a rider that you should be first point of contact.
As I say you can't have it all ways the AoS is good to you and also us wanting your products.
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
22-06-2012, 08:05
I tried that before, but apparent similar symptoms sent many people on a wild goose chase.
icehockeyboy
22-06-2012, 08:17
Then the answer appears to be very simple to me. Start a thread with common problems / resolutions to at least address a high proportion of the repetitive ones with a rider that you should be first point of contact.
As I say you can't have it all ways the AoS is good to you and also us wanting your products.
Regards
Chris
I have never seen any manufacturer do as you suggest, and can't see a reason why Stan should be different.
Can you imagine Mercedes Benz doing a similar thing ( and I have had plenty of faults with mine, even from brand new!)
Anyone having problems should contact Stan directly, as most if not all here agree, he is most obliging!
I have never seen any manufacturer do as you suggest, and can't see a reason why Stan should be different.
Can you imagine Mercedes Benz doing a similar thing ( and I have had plenty of faults with mine, even from brand new!)
Anyone having problems should contact Stan directly, as most if not all here agree, he is most obliging!
I was trying to be helpful to Stan by looking for solutions unlike you! This site is a Hifi site for all to enjoy so lets not resort to put downs eh? :doh:
I tried that before, but apparent similar symptoms sent many people on a wild goose chase.
Appreciate the desire to keep problems of a new product off a public forum, but with the large interest and popularity of your Dacs here at AOS it seems a great place to respond to users?
John Westlake's ongoing contribution over on Pinkfish on the Audiolab Mdac threads is a great example of this and it works well.
jandl100
22-06-2012, 08:49
John Westlake's ongoing contribution over on Pinkfish on the Audiolab Mdac threads is a great example if this and it works well.
yes, that's a hugely impressive marketing exercise. :thumbsup:
... shame about the product :whistle:
:D
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 08:52
Have you heard one Jerry?
jandl100
22-06-2012, 08:54
Of course I have, Ali. And in a very familiar system.
I wouldn't make that sort of comment, otherwise. ;)
Of course I have, Ali. And in a very familiar system.
I wouldn't make that sort of comment, otherwise. ;)
Did I read somewhere Jerry (wigwam?) that you preferred the Rega, more listenable or something?
icehockeyboy
22-06-2012, 09:09
I was trying to be helpful to Stan by looking for solutions unlike you! This site is a Hifi site for all to enjoy so lets not resort to put downs eh? :doh:
What?
Who or what am I putting down?
As for me not being helpful, please explain that too:scratch:
Chris, are you sure you are replying to My post?
Cos I cannot find anything in mine that vaguely resembles what you have accused me of?
jandl100
22-06-2012, 09:14
Did I read somewhere Jerry (wigwam?) that you preferred the Rega, more listenable or something?
Well, I only had a brief listen to the Rega DAC, but yes, I could enjoy music on that. In fact, on unfamiliar music I had a hard time telling it apart from the Young DAC I had at the time with A/B comparison. Very nice.
I just can't get on with the Audiolab MDAC treble lift/grain that I hear, I simply don't enjoy music through it.
Others aren't as susceptible to treble issues as me, ime, and the MDAC has a huge amount going for it in other ways.
I still prefer the Bushmaster though, and by a large margin. :)
StanleyB
22-06-2012, 09:22
Appreciate the desire to keep problems of a new product off a public forum,
What are you on about :scratch:? Do you know how support teams keep a record of exchanges between a support engineer and a client?I questioned you before with regards to the way that you come to your conclusions.
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 09:39
Of course I have, Ali. And in a very familiar system.
I wouldn't make that sort of comment, otherwise. ;)
Didn't think you would. I just wondered what you thought of it.
What are you on about :scratch:? Do you know how support teams keep a record of exchanges between a support engineer and a client?I questioned you before with regards to the way that you come to your conclusions.
Yeah I do know actually, I've ran my own business.
You DID question me before if I remember. You went in guns blazing and put your foot in it.
I consider that a very condescending statement Gaz. I do listen to other kits, but at the same time I let others listen to products that I am working on and get an added perspective on the looks, feel, and the way it sounds.
Your suggestion implies otherwise, which is not what I expected from you. It demonstrates a preconceived idea on your part which I hope is only limited to this instance and not to people in general who do not see things in the same light. I would be worried if this is a particular character trait that you exhibit in general.
I have offered my comments with regard to the difference between my design and other ones available on the market. I don't generally offer my opinion on reviews and how i feel about the conclusions drawn up afterwards. Nor do I defend the implementation of my design against the way other manufacturers have implemented theirs. It's for the buying public to decide what kind of listening experience they are after. All I can do is to highlight how my design is put together and what solutions customers can expect to find when following my route. I am not trying to copy the signature from anyone, or trying to artificially create a signature in the first place. The BM is not about creating a signature, but about offering an unadulterated reproduction of the analogue output from the D to A processor used in the design.
Did you see these posts afterwards? You didn't respond.
I think Gaz meant that as a general statement to folk reading this Stan, it wasn't specifically directed at you.
Stan you misunderstand.
This wasn't directed at you mate, just a general comment about the benefits of getting together and listening to other kit.
No preconceived ideas or bias here, honest Guv. :)
As I said earlier, we all listened with an open mind.
Get a grip ffs and please lay off the accusatory tone in your posts.
I've tried to put a positive spin on the dac, for your benefit, despite our listening results and all the people who are having problems with it.
Chill dude.
I have never seen any manufacturer do as you suggest, and can't see a reason why Stan should be different. John Westlake for one and there are others. Whats wrong with being different? we are not sheep!Can you imagine Mercedes Benz doing a similar thing ( and I have had plenty of faults with mine, even from brand new!) We are talking a bit of HiFi and many user manuals have a trouble shooting page. Most of us are DIYers also so are happy trying ideas outAnyone having problems should contact Stan directly, as most if not all here agree, he is most obliging! No one is saying otherwise and I did not know you are his spokesman.
So can we now just try to find solutions to the problem and move on!
icehockeyboy
22-06-2012, 11:18
No one is saying otherwise and I did not know you are his spokesman.
So can we now just try to find solutions to the problem and move on!
A trouble shooting section in a manual is a different thing altogether.
Can you imagine a new, non forum type person Googling for info on the Bushmaster, and the first thing they see is a list of faults mentioned? That might be ok for a larger company, but Stan is a one man business, doing his best to provide a quality dac at a reasonable price, and as for being his spokesman, I am not, but I do know what an accommodating person he is, so I agree with the others here who suggested he should be the first contact if there is a problem.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-06-2012, 11:38
A trouble shooting section in a manual is a different thing altogether.
Can you imagine a new, non forum type person Googling for info on the Bushmaster, and the first thing they see is a list of faults mentioned? That might be ok for a larger company, but Stan is a one man business, doing his best to provide a quality dac at a reasonable price, and as for being his spokesman, I am not, but I do know what an accommodating person he is, so I agree with the others here who suggested he should be the first contact if there is a problem.
+1 on that!!
Good post and very reasonably explained Icehockeyboy. +1
The argument using cars are flawed. I participate in cars forum too and most of us complain only when the dealer refuses to offer help, which wasn't in this case. I don't know why we can't use the same approach for hi Fi?
wee tee cee
22-06-2012, 15:03
AOS,
Has enabled BM buyers to share experience. Maybe a few of us have been unlucky with early models. At the end of the day the experience has cost me £20 in postage and a lesson to perhaps hang back and wait a while to let problems be ironed out on new products. Stan refunded me on return of the unit, hopefully He can get to the bottom of the problem.
From my own experience with motorcycle problems dealing with sellers/ dealers can have you thinking it is just your bike.....forums enable people round the globe to share info and come to solutions.
I must admit, I dont like being a product developer for manufacturers that havent done a thorough job in the first place.
AOS,
Has enabled BM buyers to share experience. Maybe a few of us have been unlucky with early models. At the end of the day the experience has cost me £20 in postage and a lesson to perhaps hang back and wait a while to let problems be ironed out on new products. Stan refunded me on return of the unit, hopefully He can get to the bottom of the problem.
From my own experience with motorcycle problems dealing with sellers/ dealers can have you thinking it is just your bike.....forums enable people round the globe to share info and come to solutions.
I must admit, I dont like being a product developer for manufacturers that havent done a thorough job in the first place.
Not being funny but why has it cost you £20, you returned the product as faulty/bad unit etc?
wee tee cee
22-06-2012, 17:05
Gaz,
The tenner to ship it to me was deducted from the refund and the RD on my part cost a tenner. A bit pricey for a fortnight of ownership.
Tony.
Distance Selling Regulations states if goods are faulty initial delivery costs must be refunded too.
As a show of good faith and Customer Service it would be good if you didn't have to pay to return the Dac either.
Its not a case of you "changing your mind" here, the Dac did not work properly.
Expensive fortnight as you say, not to mention the RD...
wee tee cee
22-06-2012, 17:26
Gary,
I will absorb it...lesson learned.
Tony.
sq225917
22-06-2012, 18:44
if you pay peanuts....
I must admit, I dont like being a product developer for manufacturers that havent done a thorough job in the first place.
That's a little unfair, Tony. There are many of us who have not received a faulty unit. Every product ever made has had failures (even Lexus). The telling differentiator is the after-sales service.
wee tee cee
22-06-2012, 19:07
Martin,
Enjoy what you have, my BM sounded very goods as a DAC and headamp when it was working. I have a 3 year old dac magic/2 year old MF MF1/cheap Chinese jobbie......none have missed a beat. The BM and caiman are the only audio components that I have had to send back to a manufacturer.
Sell me something that is bullet proof for 50 quid extra that is reliable, rather than the faff of an excellent product that shits itself within a couple of weeks of ownership........just my take.
Its how reputation is built......I wont buy another regardless.....
if you pay peanuts....
Uncalled for as you don't have a dog in this race...
maxrob200
23-06-2012, 00:02
Electronic failure is not just restricted to products at a particular price range. I have had high end equipment fail fresh out of the box or a few days after it was installed. Nothing is bullet proof.
magiccarpetride
23-06-2012, 04:11
Martin,
Enjoy what you have, my BM sounded very goods as a DAC and headamp when it was working. I have a 3 year old dac magic/2 year old MF MF1/cheap Chinese jobbie......none have missed a beat. The BM and caiman are the only audio components that I have had to send back to a manufacturer.
Sell me something that is bullet proof for 50 quid extra that is reliable, rather than the faff of an excellent product that shits itself within a couple of weeks of ownership........just my take.
Its how reputation is built......I wont buy another regardless.....
I'm less impatient than you seem to be. I decided to slough through and I kept my Bushmaster on constant burn-in. Guess what -- I think it paid off! Ten days into it, the Bushmaster finally came into its own. It never sounded better. Now when I plug the Caiman next to it, the Caiman sounds like fingernails across the chalkboard in comparison.
My advice -- give it a few weeks to burn in. There might be ups and downs from day to day, but bear with it. If after say two weeks of constant burn in you still don't hear improvements, well then perhaps it's beyond help.
icehockeyboy
23-06-2012, 08:56
As a previous post mentions, even top marques go wrong, he mentioned Lexus, I can add Mercedes to that, I have just had a new kitchen fitted recently,and two of the appliances were faulty!
You just have to accept things can and do go wrong, but it's the after sales service that sorts the wheat from the chaff!
I'm less impatient than you seem to be. I decided to slough through and I kept my Bushmaster on constant burn-in. Guess what -- I think it paid off! Ten days into it, the Bushmaster finally came into its own. It never sounded better. Now when I plug the Caiman next to it, the Caiman sounds like fingernails across the chalkboard in comparison.
My advice -- give it a few weeks to burn in. There might be ups and downs from day to day, but bear with it. If after say two weeks of constant burn in you still don't hear improvements, well then perhaps it's beyond help.
Its good to see the burn-in pay off. In my system a few changes did too
Replaced the stock PSU with my Maplin XM-20W supply (15V) - made a big difference to highs and got rid of mushiness
Put back the ferrite core to the Maplin PSU output lead. This took away the harshness.
Changed the EDO 0.7 settings in my SBT to small buffer (I had 'large with random CPU' before which worked really well with the Caiman. The default also seems OK). This brought back the 3d soundstage I had with the Caiman.
Now the sound is similar to my Caiman with more bass and perhaps a bit more dynamic. Hopefully, I will also benefit further from the burn-in too.
Now when I plug the Caiman next to it, the Caiman sounds like fingernails across the chalkboard in comparison.
Is it possible that this young man may be slightly exaggerating do you think? ;)
[QUOTE=magiccarpetride;339081] Now when I plug the Caiman next to it, the Caiman sounds like fingernails across the chalkboard in comparison.QUOTE]
Is it possible that this young man may be slightly exaggerating do you think? ;)
That depends on whether he's listening to 'Now that's what I call fingernails on chalkboard 17' or not.
[QUOTE=chrism;339223]
That depends on whether he's listening to 'Now that's what I call fingernails on chalkboard 17' or not.
:lol:
sq225917
23-06-2012, 17:57
[QUOTE=magiccarpetride;339081] Now when I plug the Caiman next to it, the Caiman sounds like fingernails across the chalkboard in comparison.QUOTE]
Is it possible that this young man may be slightly exaggerating do you think? ;)
No, that never happens on hifi forums.
The Vinyl Adventure
23-06-2012, 18:10
[QUOTE=chrism;339223]
No, that never happens on hifi forums.
Especially subjectivist ones!
A veritable hotpot of pragmatism this place is!
brian2957
23-06-2012, 20:17
As a previous post mentions, even top marques go wrong, he mentioned Lexus, I can add Mercedes to that, I have just had a new kitchen fitted recently,and two of the appliances were faulty!
You just have to accept things can and do go wrong, but it's the after sales service that sorts the wheat from the chaff!
Totally agree Craig. In my case the Bushmaster wouldn't work with my laptop.
In all fairness I don't think that the Bushmaster was at fault. Stan , however resolved the problem to my entire satisfaction . Excellent after sales service as ever.
Brian.
magiccarpetride
25-06-2012, 15:22
Is it possible that this young man may be slightly exaggerating do you think? ;)
I know it sounds like I'm exaggerating, but in reality, here is what I'm hearing: I play Amy Winehouse "Me and Mr. Jones" through the Caiman, and I get this glassy, blaring sound. I play the same tune through the Bushmaster, and the glassiness is gone and there are no blaring sounds. Furthermore, with the Caiman, I hear all the instruments occupying the same plane as Amy's voice, only spread out from left to right, while with the Bushmaster the instruments are placed way back behind Amy, and are positioned in their proper places, so that it gets very easy to 'see' them.
Big, big difference, if you ask me. Plus, not to mention the silky highs which I'm fully enjoying now that the Bushmaster had finally settled in and is performing in a very consistent fashion. Amazing DAC, amazing sound!
I play the same tune through the Bushmaster, and the glassiness is gone and there are no blaring sounds. Furthermore, with the Caiman, I hear all the instruments occupying the same plane as Amy's voice, only spread out from left to right, while with the Bushmaster the instruments are placed way back behind Amy, and are positioned in their proper places, so that it gets very easy to 'see' them.
Hey what you've said about the Caiman is very similar to my experiences of the TC-7510. Interesting that you're hearing such a big upgrade. :)
It's a bit disconcerting when you first hear this sense of layering in music mixes for the first time using "digital" isn't it? :)
magiccarpetride
26-06-2012, 16:35
Hey what you've said about the Caiman is very similar to my experiences of the TC-7510. Interesting that you're hearing such a big upgrade. :)
Yeah, I've always thought that my less than optimal speaker positioning is the reason I'm not getting the much coveted 'deep, deep, deep' soundstage (my speakers are only two and a half feet away from the wall behind them). Turns out it was more due to the source and the accompanying digital noise (or lack of it). Obviously, once you upgrade to the more resolving source (such as the Bushmaster), voila! -- your soundstage opens up and deepens! What some people call 'blackness between the instruments' (which, quite frankly, always sounded like bullshit to me) suddenly becomes perceivable, and that lack of digital noise helps create the illusion that you are indeed looking at certain instruments playing way in the back, deep into the soundstage.
It's an amazing revelation.
Yeah, I've always thought that my less than optimal speaker positioning is the reason I'm not getting the much coveted 'deep, deep, deep' soundstage (my speakers are only two and a half feet away from the wall behind them). Turns out it was more due to the source and the accompanying digital noise (or lack of it). Obviously, once you upgrade to the more resolving source (such as the Bushmaster), voila! -- your soundstage opens up and deepens! What some people call 'blackness between the instruments' (which, quite frankly, always sounded like bullshit to me) suddenly becomes perceivable, and that lack of digital noise helps create the illusion that you are indeed looking at certain instruments playing way in the back, deep into the soundstage.
It's an amazing revelation.
+1
That's exactly my experience with the BM too :)
maxrob200
27-06-2012, 03:09
+1 this layering and inky blackness of space between instruments is something more akin to analog presentations. I posted my first impressions in the BM review thread and the vocals is what got me hooked to the BM. The way voices are rendered with depth and defined punctuations in the way the singer delivers them is captivating
maxrob200
27-06-2012, 03:12
Just a thought if Caiman is a crocodile, then the Bushmaster is either the Australian designed military vehicle or a chain-fed auto-cannon. So which is it Stan?
Ali Tait
27-06-2012, 05:50
It's a snake.
magiccarpetride
27-06-2012, 16:34
+1 this layering and inky blackness of space between instruments is something more akin to analog presentations. I posted my first impressions in the BM review thread and the vocals is what got me hooked to the BM. The way voices are rendered with depth and defined punctuations in the way the singer delivers them is captivating
++1. Voices are simply amazing. I never knew James Brown had so much vulnerability in his voice, until I've heard him through a properly burned-in Bushmaster. Switch back to the Caiman, and James is merely screeching and shouting.
Switch back to the Caiman, and James is merely screeching and shouting.
12 months ago you were saying the Caiman was the best thing since sliced bread:mental:
maxrob200
28-06-2012, 01:02
The BM is a huge leap in performance over my TC 7520 (with updated op-amps). Most noticeable is the expressiveness in the vocals, followed by depth and layering and space between the music's ebb and flow.
Still running -in but it's a beauty
magiccarpetride
28-06-2012, 16:44
12 months ago you were saying the Caiman was the best thing since sliced bread:mental:
Now I've discovered there are better things than sliced bread. That's the price you pay for living in a technologically advanced age -- your pet likes and dislikes continue being challenged. Another day, another dollar.
Now I've discovered there are better things than sliced bread. That's the price you pay for living in a technologically advanced age -- your pet likes and dislikes continue being challenged. Another day, another dollar.
nowt wrong wi' a bit of enthusiasm..
jandl100
29-06-2012, 05:26
Good is good, better is more good. :)
magiccarpetride
29-06-2012, 17:17
Good is good, better is more good. :)
Another thing I've noticed yesterday is how Bushmaster handles mp3s way better than Caiman. I was listening to several mp3 tracks and was amazed at the substantiality and the body mass that Bushmaster was able to squeeze out of the compressed data. Usually lossy mp3 format tends to sound a bit hollow, as if the instruments are mere holographic projections, instead of being made out of solid material.
Some of us already mentioned that...do keep up! :eyebrows: :D
12 months ago you were saying the Caiman was the best thing since sliced bread:mental:
That's what amazes me as well. At first these products are so much better then the rest, but then someone discovers that a with a specific opamp or a certain interlink it sounds way superior. That of course is all very well possible at some stage but where does it end, if there is any? Does it get better and better and better and....?
I am not an expert at all but I think the human mind perceives "different sounding" as "better sounding", once it is familiarised with the current sound. The perfect sound should (I guess) be the same as one would hear when attending a live performance of that artist. If that goals is reached, the sound can't be improved in my non-technical opinion. Still there appear to be a zillion configurations that improve the sound.
Maybe the perfect sound is just unreachable. I will keep trying though. :eyebrows:
That's what amazes me as well. At first these products are so much better then the rest, but then someone discovers that a with a specific opamp or a certain interlink it sounds way superior. That of course is all very well possible at some stage but where does it end, if there is any? Does it gets better and better and better and....?
:eyebrows:
Yep, the same thought has struck me many times on here. I realise that there is a natural tendency to keep 'mum' and move it on quick rather than post about it if you think you've bought a 'pup', but there does seem to me to be a preponderence of "Oooh yes, this is much better than what it replaced" sort of posts. And with some members they just seem to get better and better, ad infinitum, with every one of their very frequent changes.
I guess a lot of it must be 'in the mind', it's the only logical conclusion I can think of.
Dave.
Werner Berghofer
30-06-2012, 21:34
Steven,
Does it get better and better and better and....?
no, I seriously doubt this. Let’s face it: This type of hysterical enthusiasm is part of the game played by adult boys. Once they exceed a certain age, the electric toy railway will be replaced by HiFi. If these dudes would just purchase a good piece of gear which sounds fantastic right out of the box, they were terribly bored.
Others prefer to buy the best sounding equipment they can afford, just plug it in, forget about the gear and listen to music. I have a fondness for devices where the power supply is integrated in the housing, not only because it is less cumbersome.
One part of the HiFi enthusiasts likes to listen to music. Another part obviously prefers to listen to various PSUs, rechargeable batteries, accumulators, different power cords and connection cables, while they watch their new toys ripening to unimaginable blooms. Any old record by Dire Straits or the recently released, re-re-remastered and re-re-remixed 32-bit version of “Dark side of the moon” is the perfect soundtrack while waiting until the new DAC shall hit that magic 500-hour burn-in mark.
Well, to each his own, I guess. All this certainly is better than getting drunk on Saturday evenings while watching TV and torturing the dog or the “missus” :-)
Werner.
StanleyB
30-06-2012, 22:08
Reading some of these comments makes me wonder what the point is of trying to improve the accuracy and quality of the music that is played back.
No matter how much time and effort audio designers put into improving equipment, there will always be people who are quite happy with what they have already been listening to before. There is no doubt about that. But to take issues with improvements is taking things in a completely different realm. I would even suggest that holders of such views should spend less time on audio forums. Atheists don't go to church after all.
RoboCopper
30-06-2012, 22:16
Most of atheists I know, tend to talk more about religion than worshipers.
This is in real life, I am not aiming at anyone from hifi.
StanleyB
30-06-2012, 22:29
Yes they talk about religion but don't go to church.
Is like talking about whether a new DAC is an improvement in the Bushmaster thread and questioning the sanity (and maybe even the honesty) of anyone who declares to have discovered improvements in their audio system, or discovered information etc. in their music that they could not hear before. If such findings were merely limited to one person, perhaps there could be a case of over indulgence on the part of that person. But independent confirmation from numerous sources cannot be rejected as mass hysteria. To claim otherwise does make me wonder about any ulterior motives.
FWIW there can never be agreement on what music should sound like because nobody really knows but everyone thinks they know or have an opinion on it. Using words like 'accurate' is pointess because there is no definitive or universally agreed standard. One man's 'accurate' is another man's poison. to mix my metaphors :) .
Even if we all agree that we are hearing the same sounds, which does not and cannot happen IMHO, who can say that it is accurate? - accurate compared to what? An infinite number of performances of the same music by the same musicians but in an infinite number of venues will give an infinite variety of 'accurate' performances but there will be a wide variation in those performances and an equally wide variation of opinions on which were considered 'accurate'.
Bit like chasing mist in a fog IMO :) .
Dave.
FWIW there can never be agreement on what music should sound like because nobody really knows
You could make a good fist of it by going to a classical concert or two. You'll learn a lot about acoustic, unamplified instruments, the incredible dynamic range of a real orchestra and the sound of music that everyone can agree on. I use it as my reference for everything I know about how, for instance, a piano should sound.
StanleyB
30-06-2012, 22:59
What does it mean "what music should sound like"? It has no concrete meaning. Recorded music will never sound the same as live music. So that's a irrelevant objective.
What most designers attempt to do however is to reduce or remove those elements from previous products that interfered with or obscured elements within the played back music. If we look back since the introduction of record players etc., the next technical innovation was primarily concerned with improving the sound playback. And that process has never stopped.
I'll stick to my guns!! :ner:
Good piano music played in different but very good venues will give you different sounds IMO at the level of detail most audiophiles prefer. Put another way, recording direct to mp3 quality may give listeners some difficulty seperating the different recordings but at the level of detail, nuance and subtlety that audiophiles listen for and expect to hear in their recordings I suggest that it would more difficult to get agreement on which, if any, was the more accurate recording.
Just MO.
Dave.
StanleyB
30-06-2012, 23:13
I'll stick to my guns!! :ner:
Good piano music played in different but very good venues will give you different sounds IMO at the level of detail most audiophiles prefer.
And a good audio system will let you hear the difference in location.
Nothing wrong with sticking to your guns, but weapons technology has moved on. And so has audio technology.
Werner Berghofer
01-07-2012, 05:54
Stanley,
But to take issues with improvements is taking things in a completely different realm.
I think no one denies that real progress in developing and implementing improvements to audio playback devices is very welcome. However, in my opinion claiming to be able to recognize sound improvements caused by different types of power supplies and cables is greatly exaggerated. It really would be interesting to verify if these assertions and observations could withstand double blind tests.
What about these audio manufacturers who prefer to design the power supply as integral, not interchangeable part of the device?
I would even suggest that holders of such views should spend less time on audio forums.
There are audio forums which put the focus on soldering irons, external power supplies, cables, legendary turntables, rare tonearms and cartridges. And then there are other audio forums where one is mainly concerned with music. As a good example of the second kind I suggest the Steve Hoffman music forums (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php).
Werner.
(...) If we look back since the introduction of record players etc., the next technical innovation was primarily concerned with improving the sound playback. And that process has never stopped.
And that's what makes me wonder if it wil ever? Every single improvement should be one step closer to "the perfect sound" or maybe better "one's perfect sound". But that would mean that some day the end-of-the-line is reached and no further innovations are possible. I doubt it that will be the case.
My insight has nothing to do with questioning the sanity of people who claim improvements in their systems or being an atheist. I am just trying to understand this process we go through.
jandl100
01-07-2012, 07:46
Others prefer to buy the best sounding equipment they can afford, just plug it in, forget about the gear and listen to music.
An interesting implication there that things improve as you spend more.
Lots of good sounding hifi breaks that "rule".
Sure I could spend multiple-£k on the latest well-reviewed DAC. The trouble is, I've heard quite a few of them - and imho the Bushmaster sounds better.
And anyway, if you stick with what you know, you'll never learn anything new. ;)
Until last night I was probably going through my cd's just to hear the differences that the BM has made to the way I hear them. All that greater detail/ soundstage malarky.
Then amongst the pile I dug out The Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies. Aha I thought... an old hifi testing standard. In fact I recalled a magazine many years ago claiming to use 'Mining for Gold' as the way of testing your systems resolution ( if you can hear the foot taps on the stage creating a deep rhythm at the start. Well.. Because I'm domestically restricted to small stand mounts, I've never really had the bass resolution to hear this properly.. Until last night of course. The little Harbeths really can dig deep. And then I forgot all about listening to detail as I began to realise actually how good the music on this album really is.. Track after track.
Now then... I only really have got to enjoy this music because I trusted what people on this forum were saying about a bit of kit. This came about because Stan has the tenacity to keep developing dac's that do not get progressively more expensive with time by wrapping up his products in hype/ marketing/ fancy cases/ false claims.
I also trust forum members (ok not all of them!) in reviewing the effect of cables and power supplies. All about trust.
If it doesn't work out .. Stuff can always be sold on.
You are aware that according to a certain very vociferous sales director, little speakers with bass are hideously distorted, don't go loud and the bass blurs the midrange. He once cited the Harbeth P3 bass unit as such a driver :lol: "What a silly bunt...." :D
jandl100
01-07-2012, 10:00
You are aware that according to a certain very vociferous sales director, little speakers with bass are hideously distorted, don't go loud and the bass blurs the midrange. He once cited the Harbeth P3 bass unit as such a driver :lol: "What a silly bunt...." :D
Yup, appropriately fed, Harbeths, even quite small ones, have astonishingly deep, controlled and vibrant bass.
Sounds like SteveW's Harbies are being appropriately fed at last! :)
RoboCopper
01-07-2012, 10:11
After being in HiFi for about 30years, the "best" sound I heard so far was from heavily modified old tiny Proac Tabletts, on heavily expensive Audio Note electronics in normal size room!
Ok there was no bass in real sense, or highs, but the sound was so natural and live, organic, detailed and musical. You would just listen to music, you could hear everything on cd, it was not hifi. Music, music, music. I was there with performers. Deep bass was there, although tiny, but voices and mids (more important things for me) were much bigger than e.g. Willsons (obviously Proacs not balanced, but I liked it)
Bear in mind I heard all sorts of systems, with excellent bass or stage or this or that, but in the system from above, naturalness and music took precedence.
It is not all about bass, at least for me that is.
Listening to piano in different venues will still train you in the sound of a real piano. The brain does a remarkable job of integrating all the experiences to build a sound-picture of the the real thing. For instance, one aspect of a piano is that it is a percussion instrument with a defined leading edge to notes. Another is that a grand piano listened to from, say, 5m away is an incredibly loud and dynamic instrument (I hear one being played every day at work).
When listening to a reproduction on most systems, it is trivially easy to hear that it is a copy and not the real thing. Very, very few systems I've heard can give the illusion of a piano to the level where I wonder if there is actually a one in the room.
I put it, therefore, that piano (and human voice) reproduction are very good and very stiff tests of fidelity.
I put it, therefore, that piano (and human voice) reproduction are very good and very stiff tests of fidelity.
In theory I agree, but in practice I dont think its as much help as it may seem. Most if not all of us only gets to make choices for about half of the chain of equipment responsible for reproducing the original sound. We may know what a real piano sounds like, but we can't for certain know what the recording of that piano sounds like. So we don't and I suggest can't know if the reproduction a particular system gives of that recording is 99.9% as good as it can be or only 19.9%.
So we are no further forward. The only subjective measure (if such a thing exists) I can use when judging a item of equipment is if it provides a new insight into some facet of the music.
But of course once that insight is heard, it will never leave my memory of that music, so all of a sudden other kit does the same thing.
In theory I agree, but in practice I dont think its as much help as it may seem. Most if not all of us only gets to make choices for about half of the chain of equipment responsible for reproducing the original sound. We may know what a real piano sounds like, but we can't for certain know what the recording of that piano sounds like. So we don't and I suggest can't know if the reproduction a particular system gives of that recording is 99.9% as good as it can be or only 19.9%.
So we are no further forward. The only subjective measure (if such a thing exists) I can use when judging a item of equipment is if it provides a new insight into some facet of the music.
But of course once that insight is heard, it will never leave my memory of that music, so all of a sudden other kit does the same thing.
+1
Often overlooked, always relevant and you can’t do anything about it.
It’s an engineered recording!
(It's doubtful that one can remember any sound with sufficient degree of accuracy to make live acoustic to recorded applicable anyway)
After being in HiFi for about 30years, the "best" sound I heard so far was from heavily modified old tiny Proac Tabletts, on heavily expensive Audio Note electronics in normal size room!
Ok there was no bass in real sense, or highs, but the sound was so natural and live, organic, detailed and musical. You would just listen to music, you could hear everything on cd, it was not hifi. Music, music, music. I was there with performers. Deep bass was there, although tiny, but voices and mids (more important things for me) were much bigger than e.g. Willsons (obviously Proacs not balanced, but I liked it)
Bear in mind I heard all sorts of systems, with excellent bass or stage or this or that, but in the system from above, naturalness and music took precedence.
With no disrespect to anybody (indeed, I share much of this view), I offer the above as evidence of the point I'm trying to make. I interpret the above as saying that Robocopper, even though he knows the sound he's listening to is nothing like the original or live performance, he prefers it. I am sure that many others have similar views - they like what they like because they like it, not because it sounds as though they are sat in the optimum listening position in the performance venue.
Holding such views it must be very difficult to dismiss them from your mind when you are deciding what sound you are looking (listening) for when you are auditioning new kit or new music.
So, IMHO, one man's fidelity is another man's colouration - there is no such thing as a truly realistic 'live' recording because we all hear different things listening to exactly the same performance.
YMMV of course :) .
Dave.
RoboCopper
01-07-2012, 14:28
As I am crazy about music, especially live performances, how to explain that same band/act performs so well at some venues and not so well at others? Bear in mind both performances are live, hence 100% hifi.
Apart from different audience or energy around the place, or how musicians feel at the performance time, there must be something about acoustics or how sound engineers set up the place.
At least I felt that same musicians played "better" at different venue (where for my ears sound was better), so audience looked more involved into music, with more foot tapping, louder applause and cheers...
Regarding HiFi systems lying..... what is the point of excellent 100% hifi system, when maybe other less expensive system can LIE sweeter to me?
If I end up listening to more records and music, it is good lie to me :)
.
So, IMHO, one man's fidelity is another man's colouration - there is no such thing as a truly realistic 'live' recording because we all hear different things listening to exactly the same performance.
YMMV of course :) .
Dave.
I'm not really in agreement with this - we are not clones but we are all very similar and IME what I think is a 'good sound' is what anyone will think is a 'good sound'. We don't like to hear distortion, lack of decay, wobbly pitch and all the attributes of poor sound. I don't think I have ever heard a system that I liked only to have another listner say 'no, it sounds awful.' And the converse is true, unless it is the owner of the system who may be a little bit biased - as he paid for it - or delusional, of course :lol:
Comparisons with live music do not apply whan listening to a studio recording because the studio recording was designed from the ground up to be replayed on a hi-fi system. A live recording is a different matter but then you may argue, as I do, that the best way to reproduce a live rock or pop recording is to play it back through a good PA. Maybe have some friends round to jostle into you and spill beer on you, and at least one attendee who is speeding his tits off and talks bollocks loudly and incessently through the whole performance - just like at the last Oasis gig I went to...
I'm not really in agreement with this - we are not clones but we are all very similar and IME what I think is a 'good sound' is what anyone will think is a 'good sound'. We don't like to hear distortion, lack of decay, wobbly pitch and all the attributes of poor sound.
Of course, but there is a big difference between the gross faults you describe and the systems we all listen to.
I don't think I have ever heard a system that I liked only to have another listner say 'no, it sounds awful.' And the converse is true, unless it is the owner of the system who may be a little bit biased - as he paid for it - or delusional, of course
Every HiFi show I have gone to has been full of exactly such systems, you only have to read the reports from something like the Pie show to see exactly what you suggest doesnt happen happening.
Every HiFi show I have gone to has been full of exactly such systems, you only have to read the reports from something like the Pie show to see exactly what you suggest doesnt happen happening.
A fair point but the degree of disagreement will, in reality, tend to be quite small becaause we are talking about enthusiasts here and enthusiasts of anything will happily spend hours arguing over their equivilant of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. A non- enthusiast who went along might possibly say something along the lines of 'I thought they were all good'.
Then amongst the pile I dug out The Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies. Aha I thought... an old hifi testing standard. In fact I recalled a magazine many years ago claiming to use 'Mining for Gold' as the way of testing your systems resolution ( if you can hear the foot taps on the stage creating a deep rhythm at the start.
Playing it now, haven't listened to it for years.
A fair point but the degree of disagreement will, in reality, tend to be quite small becaause we are talking about enthusiasts here and enthusiasts of anything will happily spend hours arguing over their equivilant of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. A non- enthusiast who went along might possibly say something along the lines of 'I thought they were all good'.
Ok, but a non player would have a problem telling a Fender custom shop special strat from a argos starter set by touch alone, but that doesnt mean the difference is not real and important.
I do know that at shows I have been to, I have heard systems that I would not use as a garden system and I found actually unpleasant to listen to. But there were folk in the room smiling and looking happy.
Of course, but there is a big difference between the gross faults you describe and the systems we all listen to.
Every HiFi show I have gone to has been full of exactly such systems, you only have to read the reports from something like the Pie show to see exactly what you suggest doesnt happen happening.
It may be a matter of some debate on this forum as to whether I'm fit to pronounce opinions on anything Nick has posted :lol: but, IMHO, he is absolutely hitting the nail on the head.
Take for example the wide variety of audio fora that there are around - it could be said with some accuracy that some of them, (dare I suggest even this one?), has it's 'house sound'. If you share that 'house sound' you tend to stick around but if you don't you move on to another forum where your opinions are more in tune (sorry ;) ) with those of the other members.
Dave.
I do know that at shows I have been to, I have heard systems that I would not use as a garden system and I found actually unpleasant to listen to. But there were folk in the room smiling and looking happy.
Probably drunk or just glad to get away from the wife for a couple of hours :lol:
magiccarpetride
01-07-2012, 20:14
Reading some of these comments makes me wonder what the point is of trying to improve the accuracy and quality of the music that is played back.
No matter how much time and effort audio designers put into improving equipment, there will always be people who are quite happy with what they have already been listening to before. There is no doubt about that. But to take issues with improvements is taking things in a completely different realm. I would even suggest that holders of such views should spend less time on audio forums. Atheists don't go to church after all.
Hence the inevitable race to the bottom which brought us to the present 'iPhone with white earbuds' state of affairs. Will the hi fi industry continue, will it survive once us old geezers pack it up?
If everyone stops spending money on improved equipment, people like Stan will be forced to stop researching and innovating. I'm not seeing younger generations obsessing about the quality of sound reproduction, do you? We may end up being the last Mohicans.
RoboCopper
01-07-2012, 20:19
Hence the inevitable race to the bottom which brought us to the present 'iPhone with white earbuds' state of affairs. Will the hi fi industry continue, will it survive once us old geezers pack it up?
If everyone stops spending money on improved equipment, people like Stan will be forced to stop researching and innovating. I'm not seeing younger generations obsessing about the quality of sound reproduction, do you? We may end up being the last Mohicans.
Scary contemplations :(
Hence the inevitable race to the bottom which brought us to the present 'iPhone with white earbuds' state of affairs. Will the hi fi industry continue, will it survive once us old geezers pack it up?
If everyone stops spending money on improved equipment, people like Stan will be forced to stop researching and innovating. I'm not seeing younger generations obsessing about the quality of sound reproduction, do you? We may end up being the last Mohicans.
Reminds me - I went to a poker game at a friend of a friend's recently. Lovely place but rented so there was hardly any furniture so we were playing on the kitchen table. They are all 'youngsters' i.e in their twenties. Someone called for some sounds so out comes an i-phone and an egg shaped contraption that extends out to make a loudspeaker. One 2 inch driver firing upwards. :rolleyes:
I jokingly suggested that we have the next game around my place because I have stereo sound. They were nonplussed.:doh:
RoboCopper
01-07-2012, 21:36
ha ha ha....good one :)
The Vinyl Adventure
01-07-2012, 21:47
I'm in my twenties ...
Most of my mates want my hifi ...
It's not a lost cause
Its always old fuggies who think the youth won't keep up with hifi
Just because we have more mp3s etc listened to by the majority that we hear about and see all over the show doesn't mean these isn't a minority who are interested in hifi
And don't forget, at least all this portable music is bringing more music to more people easier ... Especially when you take spotify into account!
Oh yeah, and who fucking cares if hifi dies out beyond whatever generation you are ... It won't effect you, you will be dead!
out comes an i-phone and an egg shaped contraption that extends out to make a loudspeaker.
Count yourself lucky they didn't put the effing iPhone on its internal speaker. Quite how anyone can listen to the resulting nasty screech is beyond me.
I'm in my twenties ...
Most of my mates want my hifi ...
It's not a lost cause
!
Like to think that is true - in fact I did offer to lend them a system - the house is detached and has a huge empty lounge and he said yeah okay but hasn't got back to me. What can you do?
The Vinyl Adventure
01-07-2012, 22:04
Nothing!
You can't force people to have a hobby which is effectively what you are proposing!
In the same way there will always be people who want to take better photos, want to play golf or want to bazz up their cars there will always be people who want good sound quality!
People who aren't interested aren't interested
People who are are ... Those that don't know they are will find they are eventually ... That's just the way it is ...
Reminds me - I went to a poker game at a friend of a friend's recently. Lovely place but rented so there was hardly any furniture so we were playing on the kitchen table. They are all 'youngsters' i.e in their twenties. Someone called for some sounds so out comes an i-phone and an egg shaped contraption that extends out to make a loudspeaker. One 2 inch driver firing upwards. :rolleyes:
I jokingly suggested that we have the next game around my place because I have stereo sound. They were nonplussed.:doh:
Yes Macca, but did you win any money?
NO, I wasn't forcing anything. Thye had no sounds so I said look I have spare kit I will lend you amps and speakers just plug your telephones into that. Send a car round I'll load it up and set it all up for you. That's not getting anyone into a hobby - it's trying to clear some space in my house ;)
Yes Macca, but did you win any money?
Well, on that occasion I lost a little. But I was very, very drunk...
The Vinyl Adventure
01-07-2012, 22:21
Still requires them to care about better sound quality ... And want it enough to have your unwanted stuff taking up space in thier house!
I could loan loads of my mates cameras ... Would they use them over thier phones ... Nope!
A couple of my mates have got into photography with my help as there was an initial interest ... A couple have bought hifis ...
But few share the passion to the point of spending the 10's of thousands on the hobbies like I have ... It's all about the person, what they want out of thier lives etc
What you see as offering to show them the light in an easy way as possible for them, to them is just not even on their radar as something of interest ... Different strokes etc...
An analogy that springs to mind is the street preacher or door knocking jahovas witness ... To them it seems crazy that you don't listen, to you they are haut a nut with a different pov!
You're right - knocking on doors is useless - we have to get them while they are young - compulsory hi-fi lessons in primary school, that's my big idea. Set up a system in the gymnasium (or whatever they have these days, a holodeck or somthing probably) and bring them in a class at a time, let them play their own tapes, Backstreet Boys or whatever - I think that would work. ;)
I recall when Benjemin Britain died the whole junior school had to assemble in the gym and the Headmistress sat at the front and played us his records. My visual memory has it that she used an old fashioned gramphone but I think that must be an embellishment.
.....
Then amongst the pile I dug out The Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies. Aha I thought... an old hifi testing standard. In fact I recalled a magazine many years ago claiming to use 'Mining for Gold' as the way of testing your systems resolution ( if you can hear the foot taps on the stage creating a deep rhythm at the start). Well.. Because I'm domestically restricted to small stand mounts, I've never really had the bass resolution to hear this properly.. Until last night of course. The little Harbeths really can dig deep.
....
Foot taps? :scratch: I've always thought it was the fan in the air-conditioning or heater unit. You can definitely hear the sound of air being blown around. :rolleyes:
Still requires them to care about better sound quality
As a famous American said, they don't know what they don't know :)
Foot taps? :scratch: I've always thought it was the fan in the air-conditioning or heater unit. You can definitely hear the sound of air being blown around. :rolleyes:
There's definitely something tinkling far-right and I thought it might be something caught in a fan, or someone tapping out a very light rhythm. Lots of moving air noise, agreed Barry.
Foot taps? :scratch: I've always thought it was the fan in the air-conditioning or heater unit. You can definitely hear the sound of air being blown around. :rolleyes:
Yes you are right Barry.
It might well be the 2nd track.. whatever it's called. There is a very gentle count in "two...three", with an almost imperceptible foot tap. Or it's I'm my imagination ! Maybe it's all these psycho-improvements in performance or me having another senior moment !
Count yourself lucky they didn't put the effing iPhone on its internal speaker. Quite how anyone can listen to the resulting nasty screech is beyond me.
I remember as a pubescent kid listening to Radio Caroline and Luuxemborg on a crappy AM transistor radio under my bed covers when I should have been getting some sleep for school the next day....its sounded bloody fantastic ;)
A passion for music first and the Hi-Fi will follow if its strong enough. :)
RoboCopper
02-07-2012, 08:36
I remember as a pubescent kid listening to Radio Caroline and Luuxemborg on a crappy AM transistor radio under my bed covers when I should have been getting some sleep for school the next day....its sounded bloody fantastic ;)
A passion for music first and the Hi-Fi will follow if its strong enough. :)
Hopefully HiFi survive, I am always happy when I see younger chaps interested in separated amplifiers or speakers. I guess it is very hard for them to resist to marketing of home cinema/PC setups "deals".
A passion for music first and the Hi-Fi will follow if its strong enough. :)
Oh yes, I agree with that.
bronzeage
04-07-2012, 19:32
I never really thought there was such a thing as burn-in. Maybe there still isn't.
However, the sound of the Bushmaster has changed (or appeared to) almost every day - unlike anything else I have owned to such a degree.
Was somewhat disturbed during the 'mush' phase :mental:- finally has got out of that and the treble is getting its sparke back. The imaging / soundstage have always been spot on though.
Just waiting for the SBooster to arrive from MG now ...
Anybody got experience of switching from Chord SilverScreen cable to something else ? Tempted by the Tellurium Blue. Darn this forum ! :eyebrows:
This might be a stupid question, but is it necessary to turn on the amplifier during burn-in, or is it enough to turn on just the source and the DAC?
magiccarpetride
05-07-2012, 16:56
This might be a stupid question, but is it necessary to turn on the amplifier during burn-in, or is it enough to turn on just the source and the DAC?
Just feed some music into the DAC. The amp can be off.
jandl100
05-07-2012, 17:51
This might be a stupid question, but is it necessary to turn on the amplifier during burn-in, or is it enough to turn on just the source and the DAC?
The amp can be turned off, but you do need the cables from the DAC to the amp to be connected. :)
The amp can be turned off, but you do need the cables from the DAC to the amp to be connected. :)
Could you explain why the cables need plugging in?
Regards
There needs to be a circuit made for burn-in to happen. If you leave the cables unplugged there will be no current flow. The amp's input circuit will form the correct loading for them. It doesn't need to be switched on.
There needs to be a circuit made for burn-in to happen. If you leave the cables unplugged there will be no current flow. The amp's input circuit will form the correct loading for them. It doesn't need to be switched on.
I thought that the amp needs to be switched for the signal / current flow to occur (or how can it actually go anywhere).
I suspect that the "burn in" of the DAC has more to do with the PSU side than the signal bit.
Regards
StanleyB
06-07-2012, 09:30
I thought that the amp needs to be switched for the signal / current flow to occur (or how can it actually go anywhere).
The DAC chip is a voltage output type not a current ( I ) type.
I suspect that the "burn in" of the DAC has more to do with the PSU side than the signal bit.
Nope. The two are separate circuits.
The DAC chip is a voltage output type not a current ( I ) type.
Nope. The two are separate circuits.
So what are we saying here as I am now lost.
Does the DAC need to be plugged into an amp for "burn in" and if so does the amp need to be switched on or not. It doesn't make sense to me that the cables make a circuit to a switched off amp.
Regards
StanleyB
06-07-2012, 10:10
When you press the power button on your amp it doesn't disconnect the input on the amp, unless it is a relay controlled input circuit. There is an impedance circuit at the input which appears as a 47K ( or similar ) impedance to the equipment connected at that input. That is irrespective of whether the amp is powered up or not.
audionewbi
05-10-2012, 08:34
I am very tempted to purchase the Bushmaster again. Sadly I was not lucky enough with the first batch but my local dealer emailed me that they have the Bushmaster stock for the Australian folks.
I was wondering is there anyway I can reduce the headphone out gain? The gain was insanely high for k701 and er4s, meaning I could never pass the 7-8 compared to my normal listening volume which is 10-11 on caiman catorized.
StanleyB
05-10-2012, 09:53
The gain can currently only be reduced via a modification. I am hoping to carry such a mod on a BM over the weekend and take pictures of it to show how to do it.
The headphone output comes across as far louder than even many dedicated headphone amps. The main reason for that is the high current output stage and low output impedance of the headphone section.
seoirse2002
05-10-2012, 10:29
+2
:cool:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.