View Full Version : Does an external psu need 'burn in' time?
I've often read about certain electrical components needing what some people call 'burn in' time to work optimally
Does this hold true for an external PSU as well?
Thanks:)
Hi
My PSU doesn't need burning in, can't really comment about anyone elses!
Beobloke
14-06-2012, 15:48
No. Next!
Ok, so that's to two saying no and one saying yes.
As clear as always then!
David, ALL electronic components need time to 'burn-in' and perform optimally. The PSU that you have, unless containing some magic new technology, in that respect, is the same as any other. I've not encountered an electronic audio device yet that doesn't benefit from 'burning in'.
Give it a couple of days of extended use, and I'm sure you'll hear the sound of your Techy 'flesh out' and improve further :)
Marco.
No. Next!
Well, that'll explain some of the dodgy reviews in HFW, then, over the years!! :lol:
;)
Marco.
Not disagreeing with anybody (on reflection, given the polar divergence of opinion, that's actually difficult to acheive :mental: ), but if change (burn in) does occur with time how come it's always in a positive direction? - I've never read any reports of burn in making things worse. Methinks any changes that are perceived occur between the ears.
Paul Hynes is an authority on PSUs and he warns that a little burn-in time is required for his modules.
but if change (burn in) does occur with time how come it's always in a positive direction?
One explanation is that capacitors 'form' their charge layers over a period of time, more so with electrolytics, and this will generally improve the performance of reservoir capacitors in power supplies.
Paul Hynes
14-06-2012, 17:20
I can certainly hear the effects of burn-in time on electronics. The more transparent your system, and also the individual piece of equipment, the easier it is to hear. I upgraded all the regulators inside my Metrum Dac a few weeks ago and it was a very noticeable improvement. The sound quality has been getting progressively better since then and a couple of weeks later it is way, way better. Similar changes also happened when I previously fitted a new external power supply with a high performance mains transformer.
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 17:23
One explanation is that capacitors 'form' their charge layers over a period of time, more so with electrolytics, and this will generally improve the performance of reservoir capacitors in power supplies.
Precisely :cool:
One explanation is that capacitors 'form' their charge layers over a period of time, more so with electrolytics, and this will generally improve the performance of reservoir capacitors in power supplies.
That's my take on it also, Martin. Besides, why should a good product, which has been judiciously designed and/or expertly modified, ever sound worse afterwards, for ANY reason, due to compenent burn-in or otherwise?
Marco.
Thanks.
I've not really experienced 'burn in' before as quite a bit of my kit is second hand and also sometimes I've changed a number of things at the same time.
I had my Vantage psu fitted last week and as I've listened the sound seems to have improved over a few days.
This made me wonder whether there was an electrophysical change going on or if it was all just in my mind!
I wouldn't completely rule out the latter, as one can't, but as Paul and Martin have shown, there are sound electrical reasons why 'burn-in', with electronic equipment, is a real phenomenon.
Besides, that aside, I'm a firm believer in that if it sounds better, then it *is* better - so worry not and let your ears be the judge! ;)
Marco.
That's my take on it also, Martin. Besides, why should a good product, which has been judiciously designed and/or expertly modified, ever sound worse afterwards, for ANY reason, compenent burn-in or otherwise?
Marco.
I accept the technical explanation without reservation so thanks guys but there are many more components than that item involved. And is there no such thing as a component that has a performance line like Mt. Fuji or do they all look like Table Mountain?
Just askin' 'cos I know nowt so I'm allowed to :lol: .
Dave.
There are often sound reasons why things 'could' do this and that.
Often magnitude is ignored in these theories and, in science in general, often the possible effects of some phenomena are eclipsed by other march larger phenomena so that they don't make any difference in reality, although they 'could' in theory.
So, theory doesn't count as proof unless shown completely and fully in context.
That's not to say that burn-in in PSUs doesn't make a difference sonically but it certainly doesn't proove that it does either.
The Ancient Greeks had a knack of believing some crazy things with 'sound reasoning' but empirical evidence showed later that it was all nonsense. Ancient Greeks believed that you only had to think things through with logic and not actually test them at all.
That's not to say that burn-in in PSUs doesn't make a difference sonically but it certainly doesn't proove that it does either.
Indeed, so worry not, and just use yer lugs! ;)
I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but it does amaze (and shock) me, the amount of people who simply don't have faith in their senses, and continually need some form of 'scientific proof' to confirm their genuine experiences, not just in audio, but in life in general.
What a miserably insecure existence! I'd absolutely HATE to be like that... :rolleyes: :nono:
I can't be arsed with the continual intellectual postulating <YAWN>. Just get on with it, accept what you're hearing is (mostly) real, and enjoy the music!!
Marco.
PaulStewart
14-06-2012, 19:36
Hi
My PSU doesn't need burning in, can't really comment about anyone elses!
David,
I hate to disagree with you about your own product, but when I first got your PSU for my Moon LP3 phonostage, out of the box. it sounded way better than the supplied "Wall Wart". However, over the course of about a week, as I expected it steadily improved. I know leave it and the phonostage on permanently. The sound is very detailed and smooth with very fast bass"slam" and this, while good on switch on, improved a lot over the first couple of days.
Cheers
Paul
Indeed, so worry not, and just use yer lugs! ;)
I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but it does amaze (and shock) me, the amount of people who simply don't have faith in their senses, and continually need some form of 'scientific proof' to confirm their genuine experiences, not just in audio, but in life in general.
What a miserably insecure existence! I'd absolutely HATE to be like that... :rolleyes: :nono:
Marco.
If something is quite subtle (or not) you probably have to just rely on your lugs as you say!
Still, humans are easily suggestable so only fair that people will want some confirmation from others. (err.. or is that a contradiction?)
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 19:43
It's quite probable that a PSU would sound better still if each & every capacitor was formed properly & then fully discharged slowly before insertion into the PCB during manufacture.
The thing is no-one can really afford the time to do this, so things tend to improve over time as leakage currents gradually diminish & things become more stable.
Not sure about other components like transistors & resistors etc, but capacitors will definately have an effect on things.
Still, humans are easily suggestable so only fair that people will want some confirmation from others. (err.. or is that a contradiction?)
Indeed, Nat, but at some point you simply must have faith in your senses and be comfortable with that they're telling you, even if in reality they sometimes mislead you, or be driven mad by continual uncertainty! :mental:
It's the craving of certainty, by some, that's the problem.... Some folk can't seem to function without it, and I don't believe that this is a healthy state of mind to be in.
Marco.
I'm sort of on the fence with this one but I firmly believe in warm up.
Having said that, I think any capacitor in the signal path has the potential to influence SQ and over time. As the PSU, especially in an amplifier, is in the signal path then capacitor performance (especially the last one which effectively holds the supply rails at AC ground) has to affect the SQ.
'lytics are notorious for changing over time and with temperature so I can well believe some sort of effect may be in force.
It may also be why I've found Stan's BM not to have changed over time due to the lack of caps (or other electronics) in the output stage.
Indeed, so worry not, and just use yer lugs! ;)
I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but it does amaze (and shock) me, the amount of people who simply don't have faith in their senses, and continually need some form of 'scientific proof' to confirm their genuine experiences, not just in audio, but in life in general.
What a miserably insecure existence! I'd absolutely HATE to be like that... :rolleyes: :nono:
I can't be arsed with the continual intellectual postulating <YAWN>. Just get on with it, accept what you're hearing is (mostly) real, and enjoy the music!!
Marco.
Marco,
Something to remember is that not everyone is blessed with your great self confidence and 'golden ears' if I can so describe them. It is in the nature of man to be competetive, to go for bigger, better, more beautiful, more desirable etc. and the only arbiters of that are his fellow men. It naturally follows from that, IMO, that most men will look for confirmation of their opinions of mamy things, including their hi-fi kit, from their fellows.
The exceptions to this include the ones with the experience and self confidence to say "I lead and others follow."
If I'm wrong in my thinking, why do we have 'bake offs' and 'seshs' if not to seek confirmation that our kit is better than most?
Just me ramblin' :)
Dave.
Hi Dave,
Perhaps just to meet people and put faces to names, have a laugh, or to hear some new music? Those are big reasons why I attend bake-offs.
Why did you go to Owston?
I get where you're coming from, but I'm just *so* glad I'm not like that! :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 20:11
Marco,
Something to remember is that not everyone is blessed with your great self confidence and 'golden ears' if I can so describe them. It is in the nature of man to be competetive, to go for bigger, better, more beautiful, more desirable etc. and the only arbiters of that are his fellow men. It naturally follows from that, IMO, that most men will look for confirmation of their opinions of mamy things, including their hi-fi kit, from their fellows.
The exceptions to this include the ones with the experience and self confidence to say "I lead and others follow."
If I'm wrong in my thinking, why do we have 'bake offs' and 'seshs' if not to seek confirmation that our kit is better than most?
Just me ramblin' :)
Dave.
Dave, I don't want to repeat what Marco said, but I'm going to... If it sounds better to you then it is better :D
While I have gone a totally different way of things than Marco has to get to just about where I want to be, Marco trusts my ears :eyebrows: We discovered this at Scalford this year...
Not that that makes much of a difference to me you understand, whether he did or not I'd still be going down my own path to where ever I'm going to at the end of the day :)
If something sounds right to you, accept it as so.. Stop beating yourself up about it to :cool:
RobbieGong
14-06-2012, 20:25
Most definately Mark, I trust my ears all the time. When I've changed something and it's made things sound closed, compressed, laboured, less musical whatever, I have been in no doubt and put it right or reversed something straight away. My daughters both hear my system all the time and no how I get about it. I have never felt something wasn't right got them to listen put it right, overjoyed, got them to listen again and not had them genuinely say yes! that definately is better dad :D It's ears all the way, everytime :lol: :)
Thanks.
I don't need scientific proof for everything but coming from a scientific background (of sorts) I naturally question things I see/hear around me. I like to try and understand.
The psu seems to have improved over a few days. To me that means either a real change within the psu or something going on in my head. I fully accept it could be the latter!
Ever since I started to think seriously about things I’ve rather liked a bit of science and math that might help explain the world around me.
When I was a lad this approach was sometimes described as having an inquiring mind and often what I initially perceived to be true was proven false by empirical evidence.
It’s a bit of a shame that the inquiring mind and willingness to doubt ones own convictions has it seems been relegated to insecurity and lack of confidence.:eyebrows:
RobbieGong
14-06-2012, 20:48
Hi David, How have you found the psu in terms of the change to the sound coming at you from the speakers now ? Can you describe the change ? Sorry if I've missed this and you've already said :)
I'll be feeding back on mine (it's a blinkin heavy thing) pretty soon, as soon as i can just find some time to fit it along with another job I have to do on my amp first.
It’s a bit of a shame that the inquiring mind and willingness to doubt ones own convictions has it seems been relegated to insecurity and lack of confidence.
Indeed, John. Thing is, it's a question of getting the balance right and resisting succumbing to blinkered dogma.
I too have an enquiring mind (which should be obvious to anyone who knows me), but the difference is I don't need any help from science to confirm my conclusions in audio. Unlike some, science will never be 'my master', simply because it's not an 'all-knowing' entity.
"Empirical evidence" is never totally conclusive, even though the boffins would like it to be such. There is always room for further scrutiny.
My subjective judgement process, the results of which are then confirmed or otherwise, by the God-given organs at the sides of my head, although sometimes flawed, is plenty good enough for me! ;)
Marco.
Robbie, to be honest I need more listening time before I can really comment.
I'll be spending some time over the weekend having a good listen and then will post my findings if anybody is interested. Towards the end of the weekend I'll also be fitting the Vantage bearing to see what that brings to the party!
RobbieGong
14-06-2012, 21:18
Robbie, to be honest I need more listening time before I can really comment.
I'll be spending some time over the weekend having a good listen and then will post my findings if anybody is interested. Towards the end of the weekend I'll also be fitting the Vantage bearing to see what that brings to the party!
Very interested. I found my first psu the base Timestep quite subtle, I dont think Marco found the difference with his Paul Hynes SR7 subtle more pretty apparent. I'm also expecting the same with my new one cause it weighs a ton for starters compared to the very light Timestep and its cables are lets say 'proper' so I think I'm gonna most certainly here a difference of sorts - lets see ;)
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 21:23
Very interested. I found my first psu the base Timestep quite subtle, I dont think Marco found the difference with his Paul Hynes SR7 subtle more pretty apparent. I'm also expecting the same with my new one cause it weighs a ton for starters compared to the very light Timestep and its cables are lets say 'proper' so I think I'm gonna most certainly here a difference of sorts - lets see ;)
The Timestep uses a bog standard £1 LM317HVT regulator, it's never going to grab you by the balls like a proper discrete regulator :eyebrows:
No idea why people pay silly money for what amounts to a bog standard IC :scratch:
Anyone can overate a transformer & other components, but if the heart of the thing can be bought from Farnell for £1, how good do you honestly expect it to be :rfl:
Arf! Indeed... But when you've got a pension fund to top up, like Creepy has, ya gots to fleece a few daftees of their hard-earned, to keep it on track!! ;)
Marco.
The Timestep uses a bog standard £1 LM317HVT regulator, it's never going to grab you by the balls like a proper discrete regulator :eyebrows:
No idea why people pay silly money for what amounts to a bog standard IC :scratch:
Anyone can overate a transformer & other components, but if the heart of the thing can be bought from Farnell for £1, how good do you honestly expect it to be :rfl:
Mark,
My memory may go back a bit further than yours on this forum but I'm sure I remember the Timestep PSU being 'flavour of the month' and 'bigged up' in no uncertain manner on this forum but lots of things have changed since then.
Dave.
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 21:34
Mark,
My memory may go back a bit further than yours on this forum but I'm sure I remember the Timestep PSU being 'flavour of the month' and 'bigged up' in no uncertain manner on this forum but lots of things have changed since then.
Dave.
Yeah well I wasn't here then & I'm used to discrete electronic circuits :D
Honestly, never send a boy to do a mans job :cool:
Or if you like, don't expect a Mini to perform like a proper sports car..
Mark,
My memory may go back a bit further than yours on this forum but I'm sure I remember the Timestep PSU being 'flavour of the month' and 'bigged up' in no uncertain manner on this forum but lots of things have changed since then.
You live and you learn, Dave, and also eventually see people in their true colours! ;)
Marco.
RobbieGong
14-06-2012, 21:42
This forum and the world of other hifi nuts like us with Techies were sold on the Timestep hook line and sinker, reviews from all manner of vinyl spinners rated it. It was one of the first ones I guess and the fact you removed the stock power supply from under the platter meant things were gonna be better even slightly :lol: How things move on :eyebrows:
Well let's not get all snobby about 3 pin regulators, it all depends on how they are used. There's some very good ones available and also some very good 5 pin ones as well ;) . As in all things it depends on the implementation, I've come across some shocking discrete designs that a simple LDO regulator would surpass ;)
RobbieGong
14-06-2012, 21:51
Snobby has nothing to do with it. It's clear and not to keep bashing the base Timestep that it cost way way more than it needed to based on what was inside it. I mean even the cable that went into it was as cheap as chips and as substancial as a shoe lace - literally :lol:
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 21:55
Well let's not get all snobby about 3 pin regulators, it all depends on how they are used. There's some very good ones available and also some very good 5 pin ones as well ;) . As in all things it depends on the implementation, I've come across some shocking discrete designs that a simple LDO regulator would surpass ;)
True, but a standard three pin regulator won't particularly like step changes in current draw (which the coils of the Technics motor will have) & frankly they are noisy as all hell. On top of that you have problems with thermal changes effecting the whole thing..
A discrete regulator can have as low a noise floor as a top quality amplifier if designed right. Some five pin regulators like the L200 are better, but you still won't beat a well designed discrete design at the end of the day :)
Paul Hynes
14-06-2012, 21:57
Whatever the theories for or against burn-in it should be easy enough to verify that burn-in exists. Take two identical items of equipment and run them to ensure that they provide similar sound quality, then run one for a month while the other is dormant, comparing again for sound quality. Repeat the test again with a new set of equipment to verify the findings.
It will probably require analysis at a molecular level to define what is actually happening with all the components in the equipment. Sorry I do not have the required test equipment to investigate this and frankly I do not care. The burn-in phenomena has been known for a long time, and those that have been aware of it, just allow for its effects when appraising equipment. This is why it can take such a long time to conduct a valid appraisal of equipment. Instant comparisons of new equipment are not really valid because the changes during burn-in can be quite profound.
I absolutely agree with you. Marco, and all the others who actually use their ears, if you can hear a repeatable difference, it exists. If you cannot measure it with the test equipment you have at your disposal, then question your measurement technique, your test equipment or your interpretation of the test results, not your ears or your sanity.
Regards
Paul
Snobby has nothing to do with it. It's clear and not to keep bashing the base Timestep that it cost way way more than it needed to based on what was inside it. I mean even the cable that went into it was as cheap as chips and as substancial as a shoe lace - literally :lol:
Ah! that s a different discussion!
True, but a standard three pin regulator won't particularly like step changes in current draw (which the coils of the Technics motor will have) & frankly they are noisy as all hell. On top of that you have problems with thermal changes effecting the whole thing..
A discrete regulator can have as low a noise floor as a top quality amplifier if designed right. Some five pin regulators like the L200 are better, but you still won't beat a well designed discrete design at the end of the day :)
True, but not all are, that was my point. And, at the risk of going waay of ton a tangent, the majority of the DD TTs I've come across or looked at the schematics of have very poor discrete regulated supplies that have far more noise than the poor 317. Just sayin'
I absolutely agree with you. Marco, and all the others who actually use their ears, if you can hear a repeatable difference, it exists. If you cannot measure it with the test equipment you have at your disposal, then question your measurement technique, your test equipment or your interpretation of the test results, not your ears or your sanity.
Hear, hear, Paul. The above (in bold) should be mailed to all members, as the mantra of AoS, and them made to recite the contents every morning, until it fully penetrates, especially the 'heretics' amongst us! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 22:12
@ Neal..Yes, I agree, but it doesn't stop you replacing it with something even better, now does it :D
I mean you aren't even taking into account the way that things are grounded. With a three pin regulator you are restricted to the ground pin (or voltage divider provided as the "ground".
With a discrete regulator you can design it like an amplifier, after all that is precisely what it is at the end of the day! Just an amplifier that supplies DC with a hopefully very low output impedance & very fast transient response with low overshoot to load changes.
All an amplifier is is an AC regulated power supply with variable output :eyebrows:
And, at the risk of going waay of ton a tangent, the majority of the DD TTs I've come across or looked at the schematics of have very poor discrete regulated supplies that have far more noise than the poor 317.
Which is why the likes of Paul Hynes does what he does, and why his PSU and regulator board upgrades have massively improved the sonic performance of my Techy! ;)
Marco.
Mark... :) Oh no, you got me...it pulls at the OCD part of me! :doh:
Which is why the likes of Paul Hynes does what he does, and why his PSU and regulator board upgrades have massively improved the sonic performance of my Techy! ;)
Marco.
Its about time Paul came up with something for the SP10 :D :ner:
Paul Hynes
14-06-2012, 22:20
Already available Neal. I make the SR7 multi-rail supply that can provide up to four separate galvaically isolated supply rails. It is easy enough to customise for the SP10.
Ok, so how does that improve on the standard SP10 supplies? Serious question BTW and if you want to take it off thread thats OK...
Not at all, carry it on here. I hate disrupting spontaneity! :)
Marco.
You live and you learn, Dave, and also eventually see people in their true colours! ;)
Marco.
The times I had to bite my tongue :whistle:
Lol... Bite no longer, brovva, and set your tongue free! :D
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
14-06-2012, 22:55
Ok, so how does that improve on the standard SP10 supplies? Serious question BTW and if you want to take it off thread thats OK...
I think you'll find that the components Paul uses are very much faster than transistors that would have been used back in the day with the SP10 PSU.
Something like an order of magnitude or more, the result will be better regulation even if the circuit was the same, which it isn't.
Like I said previously, a DC PSU is very similar to an AC amplifier, but it only supplies DC. If you are prepared to accept that amplifiers sound different from each other, then it follows that DC PSUs can as well :)
Lol... Bite no longer, brovva, and simply set your tongue free! :D
Marco.
Its hard for the diyer to keep quiet when he see's any hyped overpriced product that could be knocked up for a few quid. Pauls regulators are totally different, everything else I tried was just garbage in comparison and I've tried lots of other regulators.
Once you start sticking these bad boys in your kit theres no going back :eyebrows:
Paul Hynes
14-06-2012, 23:22
Hi Neal,
I’m happy to keep this on open forum. The only way to learn is discuss and try.
The SP10 5v rail and 32v5 rail use simple discrete component regulators that use a differential error amp rather than the single ended error amp used in the SL1200. The voltage references have no noise filter so they will be rather noisy. Also supply line rejection is not good and regulator output impedance will be quite high, resulting in noticeable voltage fluctuation under transient load changes. The circuits are typical of 1960/1970 discrete regulator designs, and I have tried these and several similar topologies over the years. The 150 v rail is half wave rectified and this will cause a net DC imbalance in the transformer secondary providing this rail, which in turn can cause core saturation in the mains transformer, unless the core lamination is air gapped to allow for this, which I doubt as it would adversly affect the other windings, which should not have an air gapped core lamination. It does not take much current to do this. Core saturation will affect all the transformer windings and therefore all the supply rails.
It is an easy task to provide better supply line rejection, operating bandwidth, transient response and settling time as well as much lower noise. This invariably results in better sound quality no matter what equipment is being powered. Because of this I would expect the same level of sound quality upgrade that the SR7 provides for the SL1200. A large, high quality mains transformer will also provide a robust supply of current that will allow the supply to operate without dynamic stress. There is also scope for separate regulation of the individual circuit sections in the control and drive circuitry, which should produce the same improvements that the SL1200 internal regulator upgrades provide. The results of these upgrades are repeatable with a wide variety of equipment, whether digital or analogue.
Regards
Paul
Paul Hynes
14-06-2012, 23:25
Hi Leo,
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I have not seen you on the forum for a while. I hope that is just because you are a busy chap nowadays. :)
which in turn can cause core saturation in the mains transformer, unless the core lamination is air gapped to allow for this,
It is a EI transformer though, so effectively has a small gap when compared to a modern toroid.
Paul Hynes
15-06-2012, 10:37
The EI transformer will have a small air gap between each lamination, as the laminations are unlikely to be absolutely flat. This air gap will be random and therefore variable from one unit to the next. Because of this, the air gap will not be matched for the net DC current in the half wave rectified load. Under these circumstances I would be more comfortable with full wave rectification.
Hi Leo,
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I have not seen you on the forum for a while. I hope that is just because you are a busy chap nowadays. :)
Hi Paul,
Sorry I'd just gone to bed so missed your post.
The regs proved to be one of the most effective upgrades in all gear they was tried in so definitely deserves that vote!
Not been online much at all tbh, busy with work and been feeling a bit crappy its kept me away from the pc. Anyway its all good fun eh :D
The EI transformer will have a small air gap between each lamination, as the laminations are unlikely to be absolutely flat. This air gap will be random and therefore variable from one unit to the next. Because of this, the air gap will not be matched for the net DC current in the half wave rectified load. Under these circumstances I would be more comfortable with full wave rectification.
Yes, I agree its random, but I would expect more than enough to handle the DC offset caused by lighting a couple of neons. More DC on the average mains I would think, it doesn't need to be matched to the load, just enough spare flux to handle the DC on hand. And just to be real picky, its not the gap between lams that means all EI cores have a gap, its the gap between the E and I parts. But I agree, a full wave reg would be better. TBH, I have replace the neons on my SP10 with a couple of LED's anyway, looks nice in blue.
Hi David, How have you found the psu in terms of the change to the sound coming at you from the speakers now ? Can you describe the change ? Sorry if I've missed this and you've already said :)
I'll be feeding back on mine (it's a blinkin heavy thing) pretty soon, as soon as i can just find some time to fit it along with another job I have to do on my amp first.
Now that I've spent some more time with the PSU I think I can comment, though it is still early days so I reserve the right to change my mind!:lol:
There has been a sonic improvement since the PSU was installed, and it has got better over the last few days (hence the original thread)
How it has got better is difficult to describe, I listen to mainly dance music so can't talk to you about the decay on piano notes etc etc.
What I can say is that before the PSU was fitted (but with iso feet, Anchro mat, AT440 cart) the music just didn't sound right or real, the soundstage wasn't convincing, it was confusing.
Separation of instruments was poor, it all sounded a bit jumbled up, the soundstage was somewhat one dimensional. See here
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17754
I know my speakers (where I spent the largest part of my hifi budget) are capable of much much more. They can throw up an amazing huge soundstage, I've heard them do it with good quality CD recordings.
Since the PSU has been fitted (to my ears) all this has improved. The whole thing sounds more realistic, with space and separation around different instruments.
The listening session I had last night was the most enjoyable one since I bought the deck, and to me that itself speaks volumes.
The only thing to take into account is that when Richard fitted the PSU he also adjusted the alignment of the cart, disconnected some redundant electronics, and some other fiddling. So how much these things have added to the end result I don't know.
This weekend I will be attempting to fit the Vantage uprated bearing:cool:
I have replace the neons on my SP10 with a couple of LED's anyway, looks nice in blue.
Yes, been meaning to do mine but will probably stick to Orange...
RobbieGong
16-06-2012, 10:18
Now that I've spent some more time with the PSU I think I can comment, though it is still early days so I reserve the right to change my mind!:lol:
There has been a sonic improvement since the PSU was installed, and it has got better over the last few days (hence the original thread)
How it has got better is difficult to describe, I listen to mainly dance music so can't talk to you about the decay on piano notes etc etc.
What I can say is that before the PSU was fitted (but with iso feet, Anchro mat, AT440 cart) the music just didn't sound right or real, the soundstage wasn't convincing, it was confusing.
Separation of instruments was poor, it all sounded a bit jumbled up, the soundstage was somewhat one dimensional. See here
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17754
I know my speakers (where I spent the largest part of my hifi budget) are capable of much much more. They can throw up an amazing huge soundstage, I've heard them do it with good quality CD recordings.
Since the PSU has been fitted (to my ears) all this has improved. The whole thing sounds more realistic, with space and separation around different instruments.
The listening session I had last night was the most enjoyable one since I bought the deck, and to me that itself speaks volumes.
The only thing to take into account is that when Richard fitted the PSU he also adjusted the alignment of the cart, disconnected some redundant electronics, and some other fiddling. So how much these things have added to the end result I don't know.
This weekend I will be attempting to fit the Vantage uprated bearing:cool:
Well done David and at least you are hearing subtle changes / improvement for the better. This modding lark is one heck of a game and pocket drainer let me tell you :lol:
Yes, been meaning to do mine but will probably stick to Orange...
Yes, I think those sound better.
Marco.
l would also say yes, too many examples of this being the case and a quite recent one to boot.
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