View Full Version : Thorens TD-124 II: 220V - 230V
Hello,
I would like to ask for another help. I know that the motor of the TD-124 had been designed to operate on 220V but know we have 230V so I was thinking if I should somehow drop the 230V to 220V somehow.
Could anybody advise me if it is needed and how should I do it?
I would really appreciate any help.
Thanks!
László
Don't worry László,
The voltage selector underneath the platter has settings for 100-120V, 125-150V and 200-250V. I assume yours is set to 200-250V, which means any mains voltage within that range will be fine.
I have used a TD124/II, set to 200-250V with the UK mains of 240V, for the last 40 years without any problem.
Regards
What the OP needs to do is to buy a modern turntable and send the ancient relic TD124 to me for safe keeping in my vintage legacy-HiFi museum :lol:
Seriously though, the motors in the TD124 are tough as old boots and as Barry says above, run for years with no overheating at 240V in the UK. Continental mains was always around 220V as I recall, so PLEASE don't worry about it. Just enjoy your wonderful old turntable and keep it properly serviced - another deck from decades ago where parts are being re-manufactured for it, albeit at a high price...
Dear Sirs :-)
Thanks a lot for your great help.
I really do love AOS. People are the most helpful here.
Regards,
László
Let me share some photos of my (almost) finished TD-124 II.
The turntable itself is OK, but I still need to find out something how to lift the EMT tonearm. I am trying to modify a Thorens tonearm lift and install it together with a Lenco tonearm holder on the tonearm board but I am not done yet therefore I cannot listen to any LPs at the moment. I changed the good old power cable to Supra power cable so I had to drill a hole in the back of the chassis. I was very sorry to do it as it is the original plinth but otherwise I could not fit the Supra cable to it. I am afraid that I will also have to drill a hole for the tonearm cable but let's see if I can somehow avoid it.
The turntable has been fully cleaned and restored by me.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22181492/TD-124/P1050678.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22181492/TD-124/P1050679.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22181492/TD-124/P1050680.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22181492/TD-124/P1050681.JPG
Wow! A man after my own heart - Thorens 124/II with EMT929/TSD15!
Ummm - Nice! I have to straddle the middle ground with either my EMT 930 T/T , with 929 arm and TSD15, or TD124/II with SME (either 9" or 12") and EMT XSD15.
Nice one László.
[P.S If you are intending to use your Haufe T-8733 transformers with the EMT cartridge, I can let you know the changes you need to make to 'convert' it into the EMT STX20 SUT.]
Regards
PPS. All you need is an arm rest - you ought to be able to 'cue' the arm without an arm lift.
Sorry, but I have to disappoint you. The pickup is not a TSD15 but a Denon DL-103R. However I might buy a TSD15 from a friend so I would be interested how to convert it to EMT SX100. Can you send me the how-to here or in PM?
I had an SME 3009 but sold it (my heart broke when I sold it as it looks so nice) because it would not be a good match for the Denon 103.
So I ended up finally with this EMT 929. At a later time I would like to buy another arm for my Shure V-15 III-LM MM pickup. Maybe this one:
http://retronom.hu/files/images/sl101-kicsi.preview.jpg
This is Hungarian made.
I would love to have an SME 3012 or a 12" Ortofon but that is only a dream as it is so expensive.
I still have a Thorens tonearm (which is similar to the EMT) and I could get it transferred to 12".
I have to admit that I am a bit afraid cueing the arm without a lift however I am also afraid that the lift would degrade the sound by adding some unneeded resonances to the armboard. The TD-124 is equipped with the aluminum top platter lifting mechanism but I think the huge torque of the engine would destroy the needle in the DL-103 after a while.
By the way, have you ever tried a separate power supply for the TD-124 motor? Loricraft does an external OSU for the Garrard 301, 401 and their 501 and they also suggest it for the TD-124.
Wow! A man after my own heart - Thorens 124/II with EMT929/TSD15!
Ummm - Nice! I have to straddle the middle ground with either my EMT 930 T/T , with 929 arm and TSD15, or TD124/II with SME (either 9" or 12") and EMT XSD15.
Nice one László.
[P.S If you are intending to use your Haufe T-8733 transformers with the EMT cartridge, I can let you know the changes you need to make to 'convert' it into the EMT SX100 SUT.]
Regards
PPS. All you need is an arm rest - you ought to be able to 'cue' the arm without an arm lift.
Ah - that makes sense. The Haufe T-8773 transformers are, in my opinion, the perfect SUTs for the Denon DL103.
I'll wait until you get an EMT cartridge before I reveal the secrets of the EMT STX20 SUT. However it's no real secret. Just type in the appropriate keywords into Google and all will be revealed! ;)
Apologies - I made a mistake over the model number of the EMT SUT. It should be STX20 and not SX100 as stated.
Ammonite Audio
12-06-2012, 02:17
By the way, have you ever tried a separate power supply for the TD-124 motor? Loricraft does an external OSU for the Garrard 301, 401 and their 501 and they also suggest it for the TD-124.
I believe that a suitable variable power supply is a good thing for the TD124, since it means you can remove the eddy current brake which does (according to my ears) have an impact on musical reproduction.
Ah - that makes sense. The Haufe T-8773 transformers are, in my opinion, the perfect SUTs for the Denon DL103.
I'll wait until you get an EMT cartridge before I reveal the secrets of the EMT STX20 SUT. However it's no real secret. Just type in the appropriate keywords into Google and all will be revealed! ;)
OK, let's have the secret when I have a TSD.
One or two questions about it if you don't mind:
1. I assume from your conversion proposal that it uses the same Haufe transformer what I currently have
2. does it sound that good? is it the best fro TSD15?
Thanks,
László
I believe that a suitable variable power supply is a good thing for the TD124, since it means you can remove the eddy current brake which does (according to my ears) have an impact on musical reproduction.
Hello Hugo,
Can you recommend any specific model or a DIY model of a fine external PSU for the TD-124?
Thanks,
László
Ammonite Audio
12-06-2012, 08:24
Sorry - I can't recommend any single PSU. I have asked Martin Bastin if I could have one of his PSUs, which are suitable for Garrards as well as the TD124, but he does not advertise nor have e-mail and is quite elusive (but very knowledgeable and helpful indeed). I'm sure the Loricraft PSUs are good, albeit pricey.
If you can find a DIY circuit, I'd be interested in that too. The design needs to provide adjustable output voltage as well as frequency.
The NAS Wave Mechanic is a goodie and suitable for any Euro-mains powered turntable. Dr Bastin does seem to want his pound of flesh IMO and withut being disrespectful to the man, although his work on the plinths for the 301 and 401 brought about something of a total transformation to these decks' rumble and general noise performance - not sure about the bearing changes he incorporated, but it certainly totally removed the natural drag in the standard article.
Since Dr Bastin and Tom Fletcher were good friends as I recall, the Wave Mechanic may well have something to do with both as a joint venture, although I'm surmising here..
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 10:29
László - IMO there is really no need for an external PSU. My TD124 MKII sounds sublime. Ask Schopper, I did and got mine refurbished there, they will only say the same and they are 'THE' people to ask.
László - IMO there is really no need for an external PSU. My TD124 MKII sounds sublime. Ask Schopper, I did and got mine refurbished there, they will only say the same and they are 'THE' people to ask.
Yes, that's true. Schopper is the TD-124 expert. Unfortunately I could not afford to get mine refurbished by them but if I would have the money, I would use their services as I know they are doing a professional work. (my TD-124 costed much less than they are asking for the refurbishing service)
I wonder why Audio Grail does not provide TD-124 refurbishing service. Their recoating of parts with nickel looks very professional.
May I ask what was the condition of your TD-124 before sending it to Schopper and after their service?
Thanks,
László
p.s.: I would not like to spend a lot of money on external PSU but rather to do a DIY project.
Ammonite Audio
12-06-2012, 13:04
It's a shame that Schopper are so expensive.
I'll stick by my assertion that getting rid of the eddy current brake, and adjusting the motor speed electronically is a good thing. Having tried my TD124 with and without the brake, musically there was no contest; however the thing ran too fast (funnily enough).
TD124s are wonderful things but very complex. Just getting a reasonably quiet idler wheel took ages, and was pot luck. I've learnt a great deal from fiddling with my deck. When I get back from my 'travels' I'm going to treat the TD124 to the non-magnetic ferrous platter and top platter from Swissonor.
Nice one, Hugo. I look forward to you reporting the results!
As for Swissonor being expensive, are their platters any more expensive than the aftermarket ones are for the Techy, from the likes of Funk or Mike New?
TBH, considering the quality of the items I've seen from Swissonor, I don't think that they're terribly expensive. Indeed, if I owned a TD-124, I'd upgrade it with their components, in a heartbeat! :exactly:
Marco.
P.S Hope you're looking after yourself out there :)
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 14:01
Yes, that's true. Schopper is the TD-124 expert. Unfortunately I could not afford to get mine refurbished by them but if I would have the money, I would use their services as I know they are doing a professional work. (my TD-124 costed much less than they are asking for the refurbishing service)
I wonder why Audio Grail does not provide TD-124 refurbishing service. Their recoating of parts with nickel looks very professional.
May I ask what was the condition of your TD-124 before sending it to Schopper and after their service?
Thanks,
László
p.s.: I would not like to spend a lot of money on external PSU but rather to do a DIY project.
Before I sent it my TD-124 was fluctuating speed, the speed/power selector was popping, noisy idler, the clutch was out of kilter and generally in need of a strip down, clean and re-lube.
Physically it's mint, no scratches and looks like it had a rather quiet life but the ravages of time takes it's toll on grease and oil.
I tried.. and I really do mean tried to fix the motor myself, I bought all of the bit's from Schopper and other various places but I failed on the first furlong... the motor.
I baked the sintered bushings in the oven, got a special wooden proddy stick to align the motor shaft but the damn thing still ticked as it ran which made the speed fluctuate.
I had a word with Juerg at Schopper and he just told me to send it him, so I did. When it came back I simply put the platter back on and switched it on.. never lost a beat since and it's quiet as the grave when running.
I must admit though the idea of ditching the brake is a great idea but I would need convincing. Hugo, what did removing the brake achieve regarding sound?
I just love the new platters on the market but ooooh... expensive!
Why Audiograil don't do refurbs is probably because the motors need to be bedded in, adjusted then bedded in again. Schopper run the refurbed motors for about 2 weeks none stop, constantly checking them.
It was funny as Juerg told me that he owns a Rover SD1 and that the engine in those cars are probably one of the best engines ever made but only when they run correctly, lol.. which 99% of them never did as it needed someone with the know-how to really make it run properly, that someone was probably one bloke in Birmingham who got made redundant before it all went tits up.
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 14:05
When I get back from my 'travels' I'm going to treat the TD124 to the non-magnetic ferrous platter and top platter from Swissonor.
Let me know, Hugo.. Might do that myself, buying two may work out cheaper? Worth asking I suppose. :)
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 14:10
P.S Hope you're looking after yourself out there :)
+1 Matey... Bet it's bloody hot n all. Take care of tha-sen :)
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 14:11
if I owned a TD-124, I'd upgrade it with their components, in a heartbeat!
Buy one Marco... buy one... Join us... Join us...
Ammonite Audio
12-06-2012, 14:13
I must admit though the idea of ditching the brake is a great idea but I would need convincing. Hugo, what did removing the brake achieve regarding sound?
I just love the new platters on the market but ooooh... expensive!
Removing the brake made the deck much more musically 'agile' if that makes sense. There was just more musical drive, and with the brake back in it sounded rather suppressed. It was not just a matter of the speed difference - it was like the deck had been liberated. I should add that my motor had been rebuilt by Martin Bastin and was running beautifully.
There are several platters out there, but only the Swissonor is a known entity. Tony over at PFM has one with the new top platter too and speaks very highly of it. I have not read much about stainless steel or brass platters from elsewhere.
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 14:23
Say no more... Martin Bastin knows his onions matey :)
Interesting regarding the brake, might have to look in to that more. :)
getting a good 124 can be a challenge, i have 3 at the moment, the one i use runs perfectly, but getting an original top platter that runs evenly, getting the speed to run dead constant can be done quite easily, but takes a little thought and checking that everything is working as it should, i have a few other decks but the 124 is my choice.. mostly for the ease of use with that top platter and it doesn't seem have the need for a massive plinth.
one of my top platters i trued up in the lathe, didn't take much doing really
Buy one Marco... buy one... Join us... Join us...
One day, perhaps, dude. It's either that or one of Audio Grail's gorgeous grey 'Hammertone' finish 301s. However, I would like a second T/T, to accompany my Techy, and I do love the sound of a good idler! :)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
12-06-2012, 15:36
getting a good 124 can be a challenge, i have 3 at the moment, the one i use runs perfectly, but getting an original top platter that runs evenly, getting the speed to run dead constant can be done quite easily, but takes a little thought and checking that everything is working as it should, i have a few other decks but the 124 is my choice.. mostly for the ease of use with that top platter and it doesn't seem have the need for a massive plinth.
one of my top platters i trued up in the lathe, didn't take much doing really
Indeed. My existing top platter has a slight warp and I may have a go at making a precisely machined former to help in straightening it out, but I'll still get the new one from Swissonor.
Marco and Joe - thanks for the kind words. It's a balmy 40C most days, but we do get used to it. I even go for a run most afternoons! There are some things here that I won't easily get used to at my age, like climbing in and out of irrigation ditches while carrying quite a lot of weight, but at least I've not seen or experienced anything really nasty. The BBC seem to make a point of talking down what's being achieved out here and giving the folks at home the impression that we're all dying for nothing. That couldn't be further from the truth - real progress is being made here and the locals (the true locals, that is) are very appreciative of our efforts. I did once think that the politicians were mad putting a date on our withdrawal, but now I believe it was a shrewd move, which galvanised the Afghans into doing far more than they might otherwise have bothered with.
The Black Adder
12-06-2012, 16:02
Indeed. My existing top platter has a slight warp and I may have a go at making a precisely machined former to help in straightening it out, but I'll still get the new one from Swissonor.
Marco and Joe - thanks for the kind words. It's a balmy 40C most days, but we do get used to it. I even go for a run most afternoons! There are some things here that I won't easily get used to at my age, like climbing in and out of irrigation ditches while carrying quite a lot of weight, but at least I've not seen or experienced anything really nasty. The BBC seem to make a point of talking down what's being achieved out here and giving the folks at home the impression that we're all dying for nothing. That couldn't be further from the truth - real progress is being made here and the locals (the true locals, that is) are very appreciative of our efforts. I did once think that the politicians were mad putting a date on our withdrawal, but now I believe it was a shrewd move, which galvanised the Afghans into doing far more than they might otherwise have bothered with.
Your welcome matey.. And that's really great news. Glad to hear some 'real' news. The BBC is getting worse in my opinion they only seem to focus on the dramatic/bad news and hardly ever informing on the progression.
Who are you with btw? - I've not been in service myself but I come from a long line of military service. My farther was 2nd Battalion C.S.G. and SAS etc.
Is this the same platter Schopper also sells?
How much Swissonor charges for such a platter?
Ammonite Audio
13-06-2012, 02:16
Is this the same platter Schopper also sells?
How much Swissonor charges for such a platter?
I am hoping that buying directly from Swissonor is cheaper than via Schopper!
I am hoping that buying directly from Swissonor is cheaper than via Schopper!
Probably, but I still think it would still cost more than I can afford.
Schopper sells it for CHF 1490 :-(
I know it costed a lot to develop and the low quantity production is also expensive (especially in Switzerland). It would be nice to have the exact manufacturing specifications and drawings and to get them manufactured in Hungary. It would cost much less...
I would like to make a small and quick voting. Please let me know your advise regarding the following options (usage of the tonearm):
- armrest and arm lifter on the armboard. armlift is used to position the pickup
- only armrest and manually cueing the pickup over the rotating LP
- armrest + using the top platter lift mechanism of the TD-124 (pick up the top platter so the LP stops, position the pickup on desired position, lower the LP with the built in mechanism)
Thanks and regards,
László
I would like to make a small and quick voting. Please let me know your advise regarding the following options (usage of the tonearm):
(1) - armrest and arm lifter on the armboard. armlift is used to position the pickup
(2) - only armrest and manually cueing the pickup over the rotating LP
(3) - armrest + using the top platter lift mechanism of the TD-124 (pick up the top platter so the LP stops, position the pickup on desired position, lower the LP with the built in mechanism)
Thanks and regards,
László
Hi László,
In order of preference:
(1) If you can fit an arm lifter, this is the best option.
(2) An acceptable alternative. You should have no problems if you listen to the whole of each side of an LP, that is, lower the pickup arm onto the record at the starting lead-in groove, and lifting it off at the run-out groove. The latter can be a little more difficult, especially if the run-out grooves are eccentric.
(3) No! Don't even think about it. You will be OK using this technique at the start of the record, because when the sub platter is lowered it will rotate slightly in a clockwise direction: the same as the main platter. However when the sub-platter is raised, it moves slightly conterclockwise - effectively back-cuing the cartridge. This could damage and possibly destroy the cartridge cantilever/suspension!
Regards
The Black Adder
13-06-2012, 18:39
(3) no! don't even think about it. You will be ok using this technique at the start of the record, because when the sub platter is lowered it will rotate slightly in a clockwise direction: The same as the main platter. However when the sub-platter is raised, it moves slightly conterclockwise - effectively back-cuing the cartridge. this could damage and possibly destroy the cartridge cantilever/suspension!
plus one +1 - don't do it....!
Hello,
Thanks of your advices.
I wonder if anybody ever used the built-in lift mechanism in the old times...
I was also afraid to use it as when trying it without the stylus I saw how quickly and strongly the main platter grabs the upper platter. I guess Thorens should have removed it from the design.
I will try to get some lifting mechanism and use that.
THANKS!
László
Hello,
Thanks for your advice.
I wonder if anybody ever used the built-in lift mechanism in the old times...
I was also afraid to use it as when trying it without the stylus I saw how quickly and strongly the main platter grabs the upper platter. I guess Thorens should have removed it from the design.
I will try to get some lifting mechanism and use that.
THANKS!
László
The use of a sub-platter by Thorens was to provide an 'instant start' to a chosen track for broadcast purposes. The fact that, as you observe, "how quickly and strongly the main platter grabs the upper platter" is testament to the soundness of the design of the cuing mechanism.
That the clutch mechanism causes the sub-platter to lift on and off the main platter is irrelevant to the cueing feature. For example the sub-platter on the EMT 930 (a turntable design intended also for broadcast use) does not move vertically at all: a brake causes the sub-platter to slip on the felt underside. When the brake is released, both sub-platter and main platter instantly move as one.
Just from curiosity: did anybody try the TD-124 without the rubber mushrooms fastened to the chassis with screws like the Garrard 301 or 401?
What is the opinion about it?
Just from curiosity: did anybody try the TD-124 without the rubber mushrooms fastened to the chassis with screws like the Garrard 301 or 401?
What is the opinion about it?
There are several users of TD-124's who do.
I don't, as that was how Thorens designed the deck. Used as such, the deck is largely independent of the plinth into which it fits (unlike the 301/401!).
I would have thought if you remove the 'mushrooms' you move the point of vibration isolation from the chassis to the feet (or supports) of the plinth.
Feel free to experiment; you may find improvements to be gained, though I doubt they will be major.
Regards
Ammonite Audio
14-06-2012, 02:35
Just from curiosity: did anybody try the TD-124 without the rubber mushrooms fastened to the chassis with screws like the Garrard 301 or 401?
What is the opinion about it?
Yes. With a good plinth (mine is an Ortofon-style one from Jim Campbell in the States), there is no difference one way or the other, so I run mine without mushrooms. Things might be different with another plinth, of course.
The Black Adder
14-06-2012, 09:54
I take it back... I've just had a mail from Juerg.
May be of interest to you.
---
Dear Joe !
We changed the design of the external PSU to have a corresponding design with our Swissonor amplifiers.
It will look the same like a single frame modul of the Swissonor AM series amps.
http://www.swissonor.ch/pdf/AMSys_e.pdf
It will have a voltmeter (vintage style), one regulator knob for the Variac-Transformer, two AC outlets, one AC input and you can regulate the voltage from 0 – 240 volts. The whole PSU will be completely analogue with a special designed filter unit. The sound after a fully restored TD 124 will be the best with a voltage around 200 volts.
I am still waiting for the cabinets and the top panel. But we have so many orders for the Swissonor amplifiers that we are in delay with all productions. Finally I hope we are ready in November.
Please keep always an eye on our homepage. We will publish it as soon as the PSU will be available.
Best wishes from Switzerland
Juerg Schopper
PS: Have a look at our reviews from the Munich Hifi-Show. We had a good success.
http://www.schopper.ch/index.php?page=highend-munchen-2012
Hello Joe,
Thanks for the correction :-)
It is interestin to hear it.
I have another question regarding TD-124.
Could you recommend me a disc stabilizer to use with it?
I am mainly interested in the optimal weight of the stabilizer to be used with the TD-124.
There is a German one which weights 760gr but I am not sure if it is not too much?!
Thanks!
The Black Adder
18-06-2012, 18:29
Hello László
see below..
Hello Joe,
Thanks for the correction :-)
It is interestin to hear it.
I have another question regarding TD-124.
Could you recommend me a disc stabilizer to use with it?
I am mainly interested in the optimal weight of the stabilizer to be used with the TD-124.
There is a German one which weights 760gr but I am not sure if it is not too much?!
Thanks!
Use a clamp, not a weight. Some of the record 'stabilising' pucks or weights are absurdly heavy. The bearing of the Thorens (or any other deck for that matter) is not designed for a long life, if it has to support a heavy load.
Use a clamp instead, such as the Mitchell design.
Thanks for the information.
Speaking about the record clamp it came to my mind what turntable mat do you use? Do you add anything additionally on the original Thorens rubber mat?
Thanks for the information.
Speaking about the record clamp it came to my mind what turntable mat do you use? Do you add anything additionally on the original Thorens rubber mat?
Some find a thin felt or cork mat placed on top or the original rubber mat to be beneficial. I like the idea of cork mats, however I rather fancy trying a leather mat.
That's what I was also thinking about... to get a leather mat. Jean Hiraga has such mat. Do you know a good source where we could get a nice leather mat for reasonable price?
bobbasrah
19-06-2012, 08:44
That's what I was also thinking about... to get a leather mat. Jean Hiraga has such mat. Do you know a good source where we could get a nice leather mat for reasonable price?
Why not look around locally for a leathergoods manufacturer or repairer locally and get one cut? :scratch:
There are at least 4 places I can think of local to me (next door to you in Romania), and this is a tiny city by comparison to Budapest. :eyebrows:
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