View Full Version : My car is sick
Covenant
08-06-2012, 18:14
Any car experts on AOS?
My Lexus IS220d has gone into limp mode caused by a blocked particulate filter.
This is what a local garage has told me, they are currently looking to see if the filter can be regenerated by burning off the soot deposits at high temperature.
From what I have read this often doesn't work and the solution is to replace the filter at £1400-£2000!
Reading on the internet it would seem that the filter can be removed and the ECU re-mapped so it doesn't go into limp mode again. The advantage is better performance and economy. The downside is slightly more emissions but the car will still pass the MOT. I don't know the cost of this but as the car has always had poor acceleration I am attracted to the idea.
Any thoughts chaps?
Ali Tait
08-06-2012, 18:20
No expert but I'd say DPF removal and a remap will still be waaay cheaper. These bloody things are the bane of modern diesels from what I've read. All in the name of lower emissions. As if it makes any prectical difference given what the likes of India and China are pumping out these days.
Obviously get it done at a specialist indie!
Covenant
08-06-2012, 18:28
That's the way I think about it Ali. The only thing is, I would need to get the car transported to Doncaster, can't find anywhere local that does it. Don't fancy chugging 100 miles up the motorway at 40mph.
Reid Malenfant
08-06-2012, 18:32
Don't fancy chugging 100 miles up the motorway at 40mph.
Take a more scenic route Jerry :)
Motorways are bloody boring anyway, go see some countryside :D
Get it up to Doncaster asap. Dave K is only 20 miles away, you can stay with him whilst they do the job:eek::lol:
Ali Tait
08-06-2012, 18:38
My baby is sick too -
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2357/alfapic2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/alfapic2.jpg/)
I stroke her and tell her she is beautiful every evening (a requirement with Alfas) She needs a new water pump and rear springs. And a new cam belt and tensioners really if I'm honest.
I'm bored with my car.... :(
As I understand it, the filter only goes into 'burn' mode every so often. At other times, the car should not lose any performance. I'm pretty sure I can feel when mine is in a burn cycle but there is no dash indication which is an annoyance.
Ali Tait
08-06-2012, 20:18
I'm bored with my car.... :(
What's the car?
Covenant
08-06-2012, 20:19
I'm bored with my car.... :(
Would you like to buy a sick Lexus?:lol:
twelvebears
08-06-2012, 20:25
I've had two cars back to back, both with DPF fitted and haven't had either of them go into forced regeneration mode at all, but then I do 95% of my milage on a 98 mile round trip commute each day on the M25.
If I had to do lots of short trips without a regular high-speed motorway blast to burn of the DPF, I'd probably look to get it removed.
What's the car?
A boring one! :lol:
.... I thought I'd manage more than the two thousand miles I've done before I got fed up with it. I blame the weather! :scratch:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9179/imag0078vv.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/imag0078vv.jpg/)
At least it's not a diesel though... ;)
Reid Malenfant
08-06-2012, 20:27
:stalks: Porche :D
:stalks: Porche :D
Hmmm... I prefer "Cockster". ;)
StanleyB
08-06-2012, 20:29
Jerry, have you considered leaving it parked with the keys in it somewhere close to a rough area :eyebrows:?
Covenant
08-06-2012, 20:37
Jerry, have you considered leaving it parked with the keys in it somewhere close to a rough area :eyebrows:?
It's a good car Stan, this will be the first serious money spent on it other than brakes, tyres, servicing etc.
Ali Tait
08-06-2012, 21:03
Hmmm... I prefer "Cockster". ;)
Telt ye to buy an Alfa! :eyebrows:
German cars are well screwed together but they are BORING to drive.
northwest
08-06-2012, 21:12
That's the way I think about it Ali. The only thing is, I would need to get the car transported to Doncaster, can't find anywhere local that does it. Don't fancy chugging 100 miles up the motorway at 40mph.
I know of at least three places you would have to pass to get to Doncaster. I'll PM you with some details in the AM.
Covenant
08-06-2012, 21:14
I know of at least three places you would have to pass to get to Doncaster. I'll PM you with some details in the AM.
Cheers Graham
At least it's not a diesel though... ;)
What's wrong with diesel? Best, most powerful and torquey engine I've ever had. And that includes a 4.4l V8 I owned previously.
I know of at least three places you would have to pass to get to Doncaster. I'll PM you with some details in the AM.
Just after I've started to clear our spare bedroom (aka garage) too :lol: - just enough room now for a small hammock - ah well, maybe next time ;) .
Dave.
bobbasrah
09-06-2012, 08:45
Hi Jerry, no expert but have had reason to research this as my Citroen has one fitted, and it can cause untold and expensive problems. Not sure if Lexus use a similar system, but here is the PSA setup as far as I understand it. Incidentally, occasional Limp mode on mine went away after I replaced the 2 year old battery, no faults since. Go figure..
It would be well wothwhile getting someone to run diagnostics, as it may be a faulty sensor rather than the filter initiating the alarm and Limp mode. Lexia is PSA setup.
The DPF filter collects soot particles which would previously have been blown clear by use of heavy right foot to scour everything over the white drophead Merc following.
Under set conditions such as engine running time/rpm/temperature, the regeneration kicks in to burn that soot out by jacking the temp to 400+ IIRC. Burn temp is normally higher than that but is assisted by a Cerium based additive to the system to reduce the burn temp from ca 600 (???). The Citroen forums seem to agree that it works best in low revs and is completed more quickly, about 20 mins IIRC.
Such systems should perform reliably to around 80k when the additive needs replenished and the filter cleared/changed.
Much debate on the forums about MOT tests requiring DPF to be checked and questions over legality of removal, but the smoke test is the only test I believe which is currently in place, although physical inspection may be introduced by the Inspectorate.
Several companies in the UK offer removal and remap service, but will need to go back to forums to dig them out and figure out nearest to you..
Incidentally, I seem to remember seeing a Youtube video of a filter being removed and blasted clean with a high pressure washer then refitted successfully. Will see if I can find links.
Covenant
09-06-2012, 10:00
A bit more information I have found out:
Lexus are protective of their software and no one can remap a Lexus vehicle. Instead an emulator can be fitted so if a diagnostic check is done it looks like its reading Lexus information. Its best if the DPF container is left in place (filter inside removed) as the MOT garages have the discretion to fail a vehicle if the filter is removed. Cost would be £600 plus cost of transport to a garage in Eccles.
Lexus are protective of their software and no one can remap a Lexus vehicle
BMW have done the same thing, it's one of the reasons why I wouldn't upgrade my 2008 diesel coupe as it's remapped for more performance.
On the burn cycle, most of my driving is motorway commute so I guess that explains why I've rarely felt the cycle kick in with its reduced performance (to attain the higher exhaust temp).
What's wrong with diesel?
It's the Devils fuel! :D
It's the Devils fuel! :D
Once you get used to a good turbodiesel's delivery, petrol engines feel a bit limp. Assuming yours is a Porsche Cayman, I'll see your 265bhp and 273Nm torque with my BMW's 350bhp and 700Nm torque ;)
Mind you, I don't half get through rear tyres...
StanleyB
09-06-2012, 11:26
Once you get used to a good turbodiesel's delivery, petrol engines feel a bit limp. Assuming yours is a Porsche Cayman, I'll see your 265bhp and 273Nm torque with my BMW's 350bhp and 700Nm torque ;)
I kept wondering why the Porsche guys were always in my rear view mirror instead of in front of me. Now I know :lol:.
bobbasrah
09-06-2012, 11:33
IMHO these dpf installations are a pretty daft expensive and complicated solution for a perceived problem over what in the end is a insignificant amount of soot... The existing MOT test system are able to pick up emission problems quite easily...
There are manifold and bigger pollution problems for the environment that should be attended to...
Having never owned a diesel before I was impressed with my old Grand Scenic's 1.5dcs motor. My partner owned a 7 year old Focus 2L Zetec when we acquired the Renault and it could easily stay with the Ford under hard acceleration which I found quite staggering. It wasn't far behind on the twisty bits either although the Focus was far more fun to drive due to its slick gearbox and superb feedback through the steering wheel.
tannoy man
09-06-2012, 11:42
IMHO these dpf installations are a pretty daft expensive and complicated solution for a perceived problem over what in the end is a insignificant amount of soot... The existing MOT test system are able to pick up emission problems quite easily...
There are manifold and bigger pollution problems for the environment that should be attended to...
+1
I kept wondering why the Porsche guys were always in my rear view mirror instead of in front of me. Now I know :lol:.
Actually, it's probably because the Porsche driver is bored and can't be arsed. The cars do just about everything they're supposed to do very, very well. Except be "interesting"! :rolleyes:
Once you get used to a good turbodiesel's delivery, petrol engines feel a bit limp.
I've driven a turbo diesel too for the last ten years or more. In a vehicle where diesel is more appropriate, a van! :lol:
I've driven a turbo diesel too for the last ten years or more. In a vehicle where diesel is more appropriate, a van! :lol:
:rfl: you need at least six cylinders for a proper engine!
:rfl: you need at least six cylinders for a proper engine!
Agreed! :)
StanleyB
09-06-2012, 17:48
Actually, it's probably because the Porsche driver is bored and can't be arsed.
Somehow I doubt that ;). I got done for outrunning a Police Volvo 850R5 and boy were they surprised that they couldn't keep pace with me every time I accelerated away. Cost me my license mind you which I did get back after 2 years though.
What were you driving, Stan?
Somehow I doubt that ;). I got done for outrunning a Police Volvo 850R5 and boy were they surprised that they couldn't keep pace with me every time I accelerated away. Cost me my license mind you which I did get back after 2 years though.
Good for you. :rolleyes:
What's the opposite of serendipity?
Today I fired up the boring old Porker only to see a big blue cloud of smoke belch out of the back... so much for smoky old diesels! :D
Overfilled the oil?
Nope... It was actually overfilled when I bought it so I had to take some out. Not easy!
Covenant
15-06-2012, 18:15
An update.
The car is currently in Eccles and has had the particulate filter removed and the emulator fitted. The mechanic took it for a test drive and it broke down! The cause was a defect on the diesel fuel pump. As this happened when the car was being repaired, they are standing the cost. If I have got the details right a recon fuel pump is £500 on Ebay, so a reputable firm I think.
The bad news is, of course, that I will be without my car and borrowing the wife's for the best part of another week.
Reid Malenfant
15-06-2012, 18:39
Good news that it happened when it did Jerry :lol: What was the chances of that I wonder :D
Covenant
15-06-2012, 19:01
He said that there was a possibility that he did the damage when working on the engine. Evidently the 5th injector has to be removed as part of the work.
Wonder if he will sting me with an extra bill when I pick it up!:scratch:
StanleyB
15-06-2012, 19:33
I bet you that the limp mode problem was caused by the fuel pump. The ECU (electronic control unit) can detect a the likelihood of a problem ocuring very soon and then puts the car in limp mode. But a diagnostic code reader should be able to pick that up. I wonder if that garage has one of them for your car. Normally only approved garages would have access to that from the individual car manufacturers.
Covenant
15-06-2012, 19:53
I think you have hit the nail on the head Stan. I have gone anywhere but the Lexus dealer ship to sort this problem as they like to add an extra nought on to their bill.
StanleyB
15-06-2012, 20:11
I got Lexus dealership right around the corner from me. I can see their garage from my bathroom window. I have so far refused to buy a Lexus after hearing from customers of their how bad their mechanics are. But my local Volvo dealership is not much better. I fear for my sanity when I try to think what car to buy next. If it breaks down I am faced with incompetent mechanics trying to fix the problem. So you might not have fared better even if you had paid more for the repairs...
Ali Tait
15-06-2012, 20:15
Cars are far too complicated these days, even dealers' mechanics can't fix them.
Reid Malenfant
15-06-2012, 20:16
I got Lexus dealership right around the corner from me. I can see their garage from my bathroom window. I have so far refused to buy a Lexus after hearing from customers of their how bad their mechanics are. But my local Volvo dealership is not much better. I fear for my sanity when I try to think what car to buy next. If it breaks down I am faced with incompetent mechanics trying to fix the problem. So you might not have fared better even if you had paid more for the repairs...
Buy a MK1 Escort (Mexico or RS2000) & fix it yourself... Will only go up in value
Stuff all this modern shite that craps out with the least provocation :rolleyes:
Insurance is cheap & road tax is out of the window :eyebrows:
Modern engines are scary complicated, although I did all the servicing myself on my previous BMW. The one I have now is almost unfathomable and gawd alone knows how they fitted two sequential turbos and all that plumbing into the space available. It's like looking into intestines.
Once you get used to a good turbodiesel's delivery, petrol engines feel a bit limp. Assuming yours is a Porsche Cayman, I'll see your 265bhp and 273Nm torque with my BMW's 350bhp and 700Nm torque ;)
Mind you, I don't half get through rear tyres...
Which of course means nothing in isolation. Power to weight is far more telling and the fact that diesel engines probably need another gear change to sixty vs the Caiman.
StanleyB
15-06-2012, 20:31
I helped to design the modifications that have been done to my car so I tend to have a rough idea what is wrong when something does go wrong. But the two people who helped me with the mechanical side of things have moved at least 50 miles away from me since then. Coincidentally one of them moved in with an old female friend of mine and it took them 6 months before they mentioned it to me..
For all that we can understand the science behind our hobby, Stan, understanding relationships is as impenetrable as knowing why music affects us the way it does.
Power to weight is far more telling
Well aware of that Darren. I was just having a bit of fun, rather like the valves versus transistor debate. Both petrol and diesel have their place. I just like surprising the odd fast car with my heavy oil burner :)
Covenant
21-06-2012, 19:36
It turned out to be the fuel filter not the fuel pump. Lexus should have replaced it on the last service but didn't I think, because it's a killer to get to. I shall be speaking to them tomorrow.
Just as a finale the battery died so I had to get a new one fitted today. £1000 spend on my car this month.
But it is working and there is a bit better acceleration in second/third gear with the DPF removed.
Ali Tait
21-06-2012, 20:14
The Alfa has now been in the garage for four days, cambelt, followers and tensioner are done. Now discovered it needs a new steering rack, and back springs still to do. I'm guessing about £1200 for all this.
I've just ordered two rear tyres. £390, and that's cheap as I don't fit run-flats any more :eek:
It's a bummer when your car's sick.
I put mine in for a pre MOT last Friday, not good news. It needs a new full exhaust, including catalytic converter, two new wheels, two new tyres, new brake pads, new ball joints, a new wing and a few other things.
Decided to just put it in the bin.
:rolleyes:
Oh bugger... Has it finally died? :(
Marco.
.
.. Has it finally died? :(
Marco.
Engine's fine, probably not even run in yet, but bodywork has rusted away.
Nightmare... Are you getting another one, then, dude? Just wondering about you coming down in August. I don't mind coming up to get you, or you could get the train :)
Marco.
Engine's fine, probably not even run in yet, but bodywork has rusted away.
Dave, if the engine's as fine as you say surely that is worth something on it's own? My son and I built our car up from an insurance write-off and replacement parts from dealers who specialise in such things. Or am I preaching to the converted? :scratch:
Dave.
Nightmare... Are you getting another one,
Marco.
My friends brother is bringing me another one, hopefully on Tuesday.
Dave, if the engine's as fine as you say surely that is worth something on it's own? My son and I built our car up from an insurance write-off and replacement parts from dealers who specialise in such things. Or am I preaching to the converted? :scratch:
Dave.
The mechanic said it would cost the best part of £1,500 to put right, better off trading in for another one. That's what I'm going to do, trade in.
My friends brother is bringing me another one, hopefully on Tuesday.
Nice one, dude. Another Beemer? :)
Marco.
Yes, same again, 6 years newer with a slightly bigger engine.
:hotrod:
Spent the last few days trying to get the hi-fi out the car, amps, speakers, a massive sub, just the head unit to go.
Lol - nice one, matey. I look forward to going for a spin in it! :)
Marco.
Yes, same again, 6 years newer with a slightly bigger engine.
Which model, David? I'm on my fourth Beemer, love them.
Previously had 528i (E28), 540i (E39), 530d (E39) and now 335d (E92).
Lol - nice one, matey. I look forward to going for a spin in it! :)
Marco.
So do I, hopefully I'll get it on Tuesday.
Which model, David? I'm on my fourth Beemer, love them.
Previously had 528i (E28), 540i (E39), 530d (E39) and now 335d (E92).
318ci Coupe (E46). Looks just like this one.
http://c713667.r67.cf3.rackcdn.com/YI212O146_1_large.jpg
This will be my 3rd in 16 years.
Very nice. This is mine.
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/335d_small.jpg
Looks lovely, Martin. I think you probably do more miles in a week than I do in a year.
BTW, that's NOT my car, OR house.
56 miles a day to work and back.
:lol:
Just a wee bit out then, I think I did about 1,500 miles last year. That includes a return trip to Wrexham and a return trip to Preston.
Lol - I doubt that I did even that :eyebrows:
Marco.
That would make your two journeys to mine about half your annual mileage :eek:
That's probably about right... I do about 40 miles a week - if I'm busy! :lol:
Marco.
Every time I see this thread title I think "Yeah, and my ride is dope!" ;)
Pain in the arse, the lot of them - £2k bill to get my main car MOT'd and serviced, and my Land Rover needs about £5k spending on it if I decide to persevere... Then there's the motorcycle which needs tyres and a full service, with oil about the same price as molten gold...
with oil about the same price as molten gold...
You're not kidding. £100 of my service cost is the oil. But it's the tyres that kill me, with a twist of the knife.
Jeez! Do you take it to a BMW garage, and thus pay for the 'privilege'? :eek:
My old man took his (one year old) Honda Jazz for a service at our local garage on Monday, and including the (fully synthetic) oil, the total bill came to £50!
Marco.
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 21:08
Aye, they are not called main stealers for nothing!
Lol... I wouldn't dream of taking my Merc for a service at the Merc dealers in Chester. They once quoted me £80 plus VAT for fitting a new water bottle (for supplying the windscreen washer)!! :D :mental:
Marco.
Actually BMW servicing is not any more expensive than for a Ford. It's the parts that cost, and I won't use anything but BMW originals. As for the oil, only Castrol Edge Turbodiesel can be used. No other kind!
Sure, Martin, but it's still an extortionate mark-up for the oil. How much can you buy that oil for online, or even from Halfords?
I use the same oil in my car, only the petrol version, and I just buy it up front (at the cheapest price I can find it for) and give it to the garage to use for the service! :)
Would 4 litres do the job? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Castrol-Edge-FST-5W-40-Turbo-Diesel-Fully-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-20597065-4-Litre-/150835101211?pt=UK_Vehicle_Oils_Lubricants_Fluids&hash=item231e78fe1b
Yours for less that £30!
Marco.
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 21:30
Try Opie Oils. They usually have good prices.
Castrol Edge Turbodiesel 5W40 costs about £42 for 4 litres and my car needs 7.5l. So not really the extortionate markup you might think.
Martin, mate, I've just linked to an eBay ad, selling that very oil (4 litres), brand new for £28.29.
Therefore, two of them would be £56.58, which I'm sure you'll agree is rather less than £100! Wouldn't you rather spend the change on some music? I know that I would, rather than give it to a BMW (or Merc) garage!! ;)
Marco.
Sorry but I'm not going to agree with you on this one, matey. If I wanted to spend £56 on oil that may or may not be the real thing (lots of scammers on eBay, refilling and resealing containers), and then change the frigging oil myself, that could be a way to save money. But I'm simply not going to have anyone other than a proper BMW service centre touch my very complex and very expensive engine. Backed up by a proper warranty if anything goes wrong.
We've talked about this in the hi-fi world often enough. I always prefer to pay for quality and I simply don't feel ripped off. I chose to run an expensive high performance car and I'm not taking it to an oki-koki outfit to then save a little money on servicing it.
Now the tyres, they hurt. But again, I'm sticking with my excellent Avon ZZ3s rather than putting some shitty no-brand things on and risking my life.
:)
Sorry but I'm not going to agree with you on this one, matey. If I wanted to spend £56 on oil that may or may not be the real thing (lots of scammers on eBay, refilling and resealing containers
Lol, that's fine. But you can also buy the same (REAL) thing in any good High Street auto shop!
Therefore, if I were you, I'd be buying the exact same oil that your BMW garage will be using (only much cheaper), giving it to them in advance to use for the service, and knocking the cost of oil off of the bill, then spending the change on some more choons, or half of a decent meal out...
Anyway, we'll leave it there :eyebrows:
As for my own situation, with car servicing, I use my local garage, the head mechanic who is a friend of Del's cousin. They have all the latest computerised equipment, and the guy is an expert mechanic, with years of experience, so consequently I get the best job done and don't pay way over the odds :cool:
I buy the spark plugs, oil, oil and air filter, etc, in advance from my local auto shop (from again someone there I know), and give it to the garage doing the service, mainly because then I get the exact stuff I want, which the garage may otherwise not choose to use.
Tyres, I don't skimp on either. I always buy Continentals (not sure exactly what ones they are) - again from a small tyre sales business in Wrexham, once I've phoned round to get the best deal, but I usually go back to the same guy.
I like supporting local small businesses like that, too, and saving money when it doesn't need to be spent... It's also amazing the deals you can get when you give these guys cash! ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 23:18
Sorry but I'm not going to agree with you on this one, matey. If I wanted to spend £56 on oil that may or may not be the real thing (lots of scammers on eBay, refilling and resealing containers), and then change the frigging oil myself, that could be a way to save money. But I'm simply not going to have anyone other than a proper BMW service centre touch my very complex and very expensive engine. Backed up by a proper warranty if anything goes wrong.
We've talked about this in the hi-fi world often enough. I always prefer to pay for quality and I simply don't feel ripped off. I chose to run an expensive high performance car and I'm not taking it to an oki-koki outfit to then save a little money on servicing it.
Now the tyres, they hurt. But again, I'm sticking with my excellent Avon ZZ3s rather than putting some shitty no-brand things on and risking my life.
:)
Been looking at the same tyres for the Alfa. How do you find them?
As for my own situation, with car servicing, I use my local garage, the head mechanic who is a friend of Del's cousin. They have all the latest computerised equipment, and the guy is an expert mechanic, with years of experience, so consequently I get the best job done and don't pay way over the odds :cool:
Oh yes, when I had the somewhat older 530d I used a nice little independent local chap just down the road from where I lived, who did a great job. He offered either BMW or pattern parts and got them at a good price. I agree that these guys are valuable to know and provide a great service.
The situation's a bit different now that I have a manufacturer's warranty I'd like to maintain.
Been looking at the same tyres for the Alfa. How do you find them?
Honestly, Ali, the Avon ZZ3s are the best tyres I've ever used. Much better cornering and braking than the Bridgestones supplied with the car and way, way better wet grip. They also have a more comfortable ride as the Bridgestones may as well be made from solid steel. Falken 452s are very nearly as good but wear a little faster. Cheaper, though, so about the same value per mile.
Ali Tait
22-06-2012, 23:44
Cool, thanks. I got some original split rim style Speedline alloys that came with good Dunlop SP Sports on for £100-
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8120/alfawheels.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/alfawheels.jpg/)
Very rare, so that was a bloody bargain! Once they are worn I'll replace with ZZ3's.
Oh yes, when I had the somewhat older 530d I used a nice little independent local chap just down the road from where I lived, who did a great job. He offered either BMW or pattern parts and got them at a good price. I agree that these guys are valuable to know and provide a great service.
The situation's a bit different now that I have a manufacturer's warranty I'd like to maintain.
That puts a different spin on things, mate. I get that.
With the oil thing, I like to save money where I can, but also, more than that, it would really annoy me, and go against the grain, knowing that I'm paying over the odds, for no beneficial reason, for an identical product which I can get cheaper elsewhere.
It's just the way I am :)
Marco.
I had to get some new tyres for my Saab 9-3 Hirsch'd TTID on Thursday as a rush job as I had to get to Sunderland quick for a springsteen gig.
I had a few choices tyres wise but ended up with the Avon ZZ3's for £294 fitted for 2
hurts but I'd rather had a good brand then no brand tyres, my life is worth more to me then a couple of quid.
300 miles on them and they seem like very good tyres and very little road noise.
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