View Full Version : Croft 7 vs. 7R
Well tomorrow I'll be in the very fortunate position of owning a Croft Series 7R as well as the 7 I already have. Should the truth be told I adore my current set up with the 7 in it and am not confident I'll enjoy the R more. This is the only way I was ever going to decide.
So, watch this space, time will be taken and eventually one will go !
Sounds like a very nice situation to be in :) I'll look forward to hearing your thought, a seeing what you eventually decide on. Enjoy!
Si
jandl100
04-06-2012, 06:59
More Crofty things? Wow - I keep wanting to go there, but it never quite happens.
hifi_dave
04-06-2012, 09:18
Excellent though the 7 is, the 7R is a whole lot better in every way I can think of. It would be daft to make a more expensive amp which didn't sound as good as the cheaper model..:doh:
Elephantears
04-06-2012, 19:31
Prepare for a serious increase in dynamics. Full report please!
FFS fellas, it's not the end of the world if all you have is a Micro Basic!!!!
I dunno, some people exaggerate these small differences out of all proportion :lol:
Seriously, what you tend to hear is this - Going to a Series 7 after a Basic is a serious "cleaning up" of the sonics, the basic sounding a tiny bit scraggy in comparison. Whenever I've compared the 7 with the R, the R just seems to open things up a tad more, the soundfield just getting a little wider, deeper and with slightly, and I mean slightly, better controlled frequency extremes :)
Going to the two box RS is also an interesting experience. Initially, there's little to no difference, but do something else while listening to music (in this case for me, setting up a TD124 with an SME :)), the sound just kept drawing me back in, the subtle inflections in HOW an instrument is played and HOW a song is sung just being that bit more tangible over the R model we had playing before.
None of the above is going to make the Micro basic a bad or substandard product, 'cos it ain't - not by a long chalk - but certainly as you go from 7 to 7R and then to 7RS, the "something" that makes Glenn's products so wonderful to listen "through" just gets better. Whether you can measure this is a moot point, but the people who swear by measurement only and who don't do any listening whatsoever until the design is set in stone are missing one heck of a lot methinks. Crikey, even the likes of Quad and Radford all those years ago used to listen "through" rather than "to" their products for problems, and tweak them if necessary to where they were least likely to have an audible influence.
Sorry to go on. The OP won't be at all disappointed with the R over the 7, but i don't feel the difference is so vast the latter becomes unlistenable afterwards, as this would infer a fault with the standard model which simply isn't there. We're not talking Cyrus, where the standard model is hobbled until one buys the sooper-dooper power supply to sort it!
jollyfix
04-06-2012, 20:52
just wondering why buy a new 7R rather than upgrade the 7 to a 7R?
More Crofty things? Wow - I keep wanting to go there, but it never quite happens.
You should do, Jerry. This has come up before and I know there is no remote but so what, it's all exercise.;) I'd be very interested in your opinion, others too I suspect
Sorry to go on. The OP won't be at all disappointed with the R over the 7, but i don't feel the difference is so vast the latter becomes unlistenable afterwards, as this would infer a fault with the standard model which simply isn't there.
David, I have great respect for the spirit of your post. You'll notice the wording of mine is of caution - I hold the firm belief that when a certain level is reached, and with Croft gear it's pretty early on, what you prefer as opposed to what may be 'better' very much comes into play. Like yourself I don't pay heed to measurements, I get very much drawn into how you connect with the gear and what it does.
The 7 has a great big musical heart and is an astonishing bit of kit for the money. I'm going to relax into things and listen for a long time before I decide which to keep. I certainly won't be fogged by the fact that one is twice as much as the other. A blind listen to both a few times would be very interesting !
just wondering why buy a new 7R rather than upgrade the 7 to a 7R?
A fair point, but by extreme coincidence one came up used the very day I'd been emailing GC about an upgrade, and I far prefer the option of having both for a while.....see above !
And Jerry, sort yourself out man ;-)
I DO pay heed to measurements, which can sometimes lead me into trouble :eek: However, the Croft products that have been measured have never been found wanting. Indeed, the original Micro preamp was excellent in terms of hum, noise and with low distortion, irrespective of whether it was valved or transistorised. The latest products have come a fair way from this, Glenn's careful tweaking of circuit and power supplies paying dividends but without putting earlier production in a bad light. Indeed, he'll take any of his older models and bring them as up to date as you wish. Mine's due to go to him at some point..
jandl100
05-06-2012, 12:16
And Jerry, sort yourself out man ;-)
Yeah .... no remote :doh: .... dual volume controls :doh::doh:
But I'd still love try one! :drool:
OK - it's on my Want List for my next pre-amp change.
.... unless I can tempt a Croft pre-amp owner round to my place! .... :partytime:
technobear
05-06-2012, 14:07
There's a Twinstar power-amp on't bay at the moment :)
jollyfix
05-06-2012, 16:34
i now have the cash to buy some croft gear (its been a long time coming),i can afford the micro 25pre and 7 power,but my funds will stretch to either a 25R pre and 7 power,or 25 pre and 7R power.what combo would you guys buy? sorry for the thread hijack,just wondering on my options.
hifi_dave
05-06-2012, 16:54
Swings and roundabouts.
Can you make it for a demo ?
bluenose24
05-06-2012, 16:58
i now have the cash to buy some croft gear (its been a long time coming),i can afford the micro 25pre and 7 power,but my funds will stretch to either a 25R pre and 7 power,or 25 pre and 7R power.what combo would you guys buy? sorry for the thread hijack,just wondering on my options.
Would also be very interested to know the difference if you do manage to find out!
Nev
jollyfix
05-06-2012, 17:09
cheers Dave ,will see if i have the time to travel to saffron walden (will call before hand ). I may pop back to walrus (only had the integrated there last time i was in ). will give Les a call.
hifi_dave
05-06-2012, 18:32
I've got it all here and you can park right outside the door.
Elephantears
05-06-2012, 19:53
I'd recommend anyone making the choice between 25R/7 or 25/7R to take it slowly and do extended demos, at home if possible. I've been meaning to post my impressions about the different combinations in detail and I'll get around to it eventually, but I would say that its going to depend on what music you listen to, as well as your speakers. In my situation, for instance (using Harbeth 7's) I found that 25R/7 was excellent in many ways it didn't work for rock music. I'll write up my impressions and try and explain why in a couple of days.
jollyfix
05-06-2012, 20:09
look forward to your write up Andrew,i listen to all sorts of music,from folk to funk,rock to reggae,country to calypso etc.i also have £2500.00 put away for speakers, so some long demo sessions on the cards me thinks...
Well tomorrow I'll be in the very fortunate position of owning a Croft Series 7R as well as the 7 I already have. Should the truth be told I adore my current set up with the 7 in it and am not confident I'll enjoy the R more. This is the only way I was ever going to decide.
So, watch this space, time will be taken and eventually one will go !
Well ian what is the verdict so far?:)
jon
Well ian what is the verdict so far?:)
jon
Well Jon the 7R is without doubt the better amp, though there's not a million miles in it at this early stage. It has two new valves in it (TJ Full Music, trust me, I've ranted about this before) so will need more time.
My initial plugging in lead me to believe it lacked the sweetness of the 7 but I no longer believe this to be true. What it does with bass is marvellous, though my Harbeths P3ESR are hardly the last word in gut wrenching low frequencies.
Firmer, wider, deeper (are we talking hi-fi still ?!). Separation and placement is amazing. Out in the room, better ! You can tell I don't do review speak.
But as alluded to previously here, make no mistake the 7 is a beautiful, beautiful amp and I consider it to be one of the bargains of the hi-fi world. Do not be dissatisfied and yearn for the R spec. if you already have a 7. I was simply lucky enough to have the opportunity to buy a used one and I'm 50 this year and this was my justification ;-).
We all grown up boys, we know what the law of diminishing returns is about.
I'm just so pleased I joined the AoS, it was ranting here that turned me on to GC gear and I'd not considered it before, knew very little about it. It really does stand up on it's performance and reputation.
So yes, all that !
The 7 is up for sale on Hi-Fi Wigwam (can I say that ?), don't be cross anybody I'm a moron and haven't looked how to post pics. here ;-).
Edit two mins later - no it's not, it just sold !
Well Jon the 7R is without doubt the better amp, though there's not a million miles in it at this early stage. It has two new valves in it (TJ Full Music, trust me, I've ranted about this before) so will need more time.
My initial plugging in lead me to believe it lacked the sweetness of the 7 but I no longer believe this to be true. What it does with bass is marvellous, though my Harbeths P3ESR are hardly the last word in gut wrenching low frequencies.
Firmer, wider, deeper (are we talking hi-fi still ?!). Separation and placement is amazing. Out in the room, better ! You can tell I don't do review speak.
But as alluded to previously here, make no mistake the 7 is a beautiful, beautiful amp and I consider it to be one of the bargains of the hi-fi world. Do not be dissatisfied and yearn for the R spec. if you already have a 7. I was simply lucky enough to have the opportunity to buy a used one and I'm 50 this year and this was my justification ;-).
We all grown up boys, we know what the law of diminishing returns is about.
I'm just so pleased I joined the AoS, it was ranting here that turned me on to GC gear and I'd not considered it before, knew very little about it. It really does stand up on it's performance and reputation.
So yes, all that !
The 7 is up for sale on Hi-Fi Wigwam (can I say that ?), don't be cross anybody I'm a moron and haven't looked how to post pics. here ;-).
Edit two mins later - no it's not, it just sold !
Nice one ian and thanks for the speedy reply :thumbsup:;)
jon
bluenose24
07-06-2012, 09:05
Edit two mins later - no it's not, it just sold !
Wonder who that could be :D
Nev
Edit two mins later - no it's not, it just sold !
Wonder who that could be :D
Nev
Yes i wonder?:whistle::D
jon
Edit two mins later - no it's not, it just sold !
Wonder who that could be :D
Nev
I've got to double check i post you the right one !
I've got to double check i post you the right one !
:eek::D Ian you have to many;)
jon
bluenose24
07-06-2012, 11:39
I've got to double check i post you the right one !
I don't mind the r if you like Ian
I don't mind the r if you like Ian
Nev dig deeper:D
jon
bluenose24
07-06-2012, 11:56
Always hope!
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