New vinyl -disappointing??

[indus]

Hi there

I wonder if anybody has opinions on this?

I recently bought a tt to mainly listen to a form of dance music that was made originally about 1998- 2004. It is called jungle/ drum n bass. As the latter title suggests bass is a major part of the music style.

Anyway even though my tech is near standard when I played some of these original records they sounded great, lots of low kicking bass, just like I remembered from my raving days.

So I thought I'd buy some of the newer stuff ie produced within the last few years. I bought 7 records all from the same record label. As soon as I played it I found it sounded a little flat and there wasn't that tight low bass that the genre is known for. Some records almost had a compressed/mp3 sound to them.

Now it could be the artists/label didn't want that low sub bass in their recordings but that somehow seems unlikely as to an extent it defines the style of music. The records also seemed of poorer quality/finish than my original records ie one had rough/sharp/serrated edges and the spindle holes are sometimes so tight I can barely get the record to fit on.

Is all 'new' vinyl like this?

[John]

Its a mixed bag to be honest some records can be excellent and some just dull

[YNWaN]

Is all 'new' vinyl like this?

No, I've actually been really pleased by the quality of some of my recent purchases (newly released music).

But I don't listen to dance music or drum and bass.

[Wakefield Turntables]

its a very mixed bag. Dont buy any picture disc's or coloured vinyl as I've found this has a huge impact on replay quality. I love iron maiden, but, I'd wish they'd stop trying to produce new "collectable" vinyl and just stick to the good old black stuff. There is even an argument that says vinyl would sound better still if it wasn't coloured by cobalt black which is mildly magnetic, thus introducing more noise into the cartridge. :steam:

[kininigin]

Hi david,

What label did you buy from and what were the tracks?

I've bought a few newer D&B tracks,but mostly buy the old stuff.The latest i've bought has been from Astrophonica and paradox music.No problem with the quality from these labels imo,loverly deep clean bass and smooth clear top end.Definitely not mp3 quality ;)

[indus]

Thanks guys.

Darren, the label is Jungle Cakes and the tunes are mainly by Ed Solo and Deekline. Tunes are Champion lover, King of the Bongo, Man down, Hail up the Jungle, Sugar me.

So this is more Jungle than DnB or dubstep. When I compare this to older stuff I have like Urban Shakedown (some justice 95), Peter Bouncer (I'm a junglist), Deep Blue (the helicopter tune) they sound a world apart.

The actual new music is good but the recording just lacks life but especially the bass that just isn't there like the older tunes.

Thanks

[kininigin]

Well tracks going back that far would have been made with hardware rather than totally using software so maybe that has something to do with it,i'm not sure.

I don't know the label or tracks you mention,maybe try a different label and artists for a comparison,it just may be that lables/artist 'sound'

Tracks from the 90's definitely do sound different to todays tracks but there was more anologue equipment being used then.

Like i said tracks i've bought have been fine so far,i think it may be a case of hit and miss regarding quality!!

[Magna Audio]

I had the pleasure to compare my CD version of Ray Lamontagne's Till the sun turns black the the vinyl album.
Stunningly well done on both formats - really refreshing to hear what can be achieved on modern stuff...

[mike1210]

Dont buy any picture disc's or coloured vinyl as I've found this has a huge impact on replay quality. :steam:

I defo agree with this. I always avoid picture discs if possible as I find them much more noisy than the traditional black version.

Dance records have been a mixed bag for me.

I have been buying dance vinyl since 1995, got about 2,500 now. Some vinyl would be light and flimsy and spindle off center, others pretty good

Not buying as many recently as more have moved over to "brickwalled" download only shi*e

even paying the extra for WAV files makes no difference as the distortion is sooooooo bad.

With tunes released on both formats the vinyl version I find has not had it's volume levels pushed so high and sounds better. Even when playing in the car iPod > which has been converted to a digital WAV > when the vinyl was most prob cut off the WAV file anyways:scratch:

[Macca]

I've not bought a new LP in years but one of my brothers bought me The Stone Roses first album for Christmas. It is on red vinyl and is 'noisy'. Not to the extent that it is unlistenable but if it had been my own money I would have taken it back. I don't know what it cost, I'm guessing at least £15, but it sounds a lot worse than the 60 or so 1970s LPs I have bought recently at £1 each. After a clean almost all of them are CD quiet.

[Audioman]

David. It does sound that your Drum and Bass records are now from small labels that use poor sources and inferior pressing plants. There are a few that advertise this sort of service. I am sure the records from the 90's were distributed and pressed by the major labels. It does seem the market has moved away from 12" singles back to LPs possibly due to a drop in popularity of dance music and vinyl DJaying. Probably a factor in the demise of the SL1200.

Coloured vinyl and picture discs have always been problamatic though I have some coloureds that are very good including the new Norah Jones on white vinyl. In general I have found pressing quality to be improving after a dip 3 or 4 years ago. There are a number of labels and plants pressing high quality vinyl LPs including MOV, Speakers Corner, Warner, Mo-Fi, Analogue Productions and Pure Pleasure. Even Universal seem to have uped their game recently. Usualy the vinyl quality is acceptable to superb but source quality can vary. As long as they use High Res or Analogue sources rather than MP3 or CD masters the sound is fine.

[NRG]

Carbon black is the pigment used to colour black vinyl and it's not magnetic, not even a little bit...if iron oxide black pigment is used then yes it would be but that tends to be used in other applications like magnetic printing.

Its the carbon in the pigment that lowers the surface noise vs colour vinyl, some can be OK though which is weird but on the whole I find colour vinyl to be a bit more noisy than the black versions...

[Audioman]

Carbon black is the pigment used to colour black vinyl and it's not magnetic, not even a little bit...if iron oxide black pigment is used then yes it would be but that tends to be used in other applications like magnetic printing.

Its the carbon in the pigment that lowers the surface noise vs colour vinyl, some can be OK though which is weird but on the whole I find colour vinyl to be a bit more noisy than the black versions...

I don't know the exact technical issues but magnetism has been measured in black vinyl hence Furutech marketing their demagnetiser which was endorsed by Micheal Fremer. This was the reason Classic Records developed their 'Clarity' Vinyl. Given correct QC this can be very quiet (though not always in practice). Quality Record Pressings (Absolute Sounds) are about to reintroduce 'Clarity' vinyl so the results will be interesting. From experience the carbon does not lower surface noise as I have heard both dead quiet and noisy examples of both clear and black vinyl.

[Giubanix]

I honestly don't know why they bother pressing the majority of new vinyl releases on so called "audiophile heavyweight vinyl". Just a marketing gimmick as far as I can tell. I bought a few to replace some old or 2nd hand vinyl albums and half of them had worse surface noise than the ones they were supposed to be replacing.

When I was buying new vinyl back in the 70s and 80s, I very rarely bought something that had anything like the amount of clicks and crackles that seem to plague current pressings. Now I just look for an ex+ or near mint original rather than a reissue.

[Audioman]

I honestly don't know why they bother pressing the majority of new vinyl releases on so called "audiophile heavyweight vinyl". Just a marketing gimmick as far as I can tell. I bought a few to replace some old or 2nd hand vinyl albums and half of them had worse surface noise than the ones they were supposed to be replacing.

When I was buying new vinyl back in the 70s and 80s, I very rarely bought something that had anything like the amount of clicks and crackles that seem to plague current pressings. Now I just look for an ex+ or near mint original rather than a reissue.

Name the records you have issues with. You need to do research to determine the origin (pressing plant). Some US plants can't manufacture a decent disc if their life depended on it (and obviously don't care). Also some labels obiously don't check their test pressings or wave crap through. There are plenty of excelent new 180g and lighter titles out there. It is worth following the Steve Hoffman Forum for info on QC and audio sources used.

[NRG]

I don't know the exact technical issues but magnetism has been measured in black vinyl hence Furutech marketing their demagnetiser which was endorsed by Micheal Fremer. This was the reason Classic Records developed their 'Clarity' Vinyl. Given correct QC this can be very quiet (though not always in practice). Quality Record Pressings (Absolute Sounds) are about to reintroduce 'Clarity' vinyl so the results will be interesting. From experience the carbon does not lower surface noise as I have heard both dead quiet and noisy examples of both clear and black vinyl.

Yes, I've seen that product but remain skeptical, I'd like to see some evidence and if theres *is* a low level of magnetism present evidence that it affects replay...

Regarding noisy colored vinyl there may be another reason due to the length of the production run, coloured vinyl is likely to be made in a limited run, which may not allow the manufacturing/stamping process to be fully optimized in terms of temperature and timing...apparently its not uncommon to through away the first 10's of or first 100 of the production run before the quality gets to an acceptable point....with a limited run maybe due to cost they can't afford this luxury...

[Giubanix]

Name the records you have issues with. You need to do research to determine the origin (pressing plant). Some US plants can't manufacture a decent disc if their life depended on it (and obviously don't care). Also some labels obiously don't check their test pressings or wave crap through. There are plenty of excelent new 180g and lighter titles out there. It is worth following the Steve Hoffman Forum for info on QC and audio sources used.

A couple of the worst ones were "Get Back" reissues manufactured in Italy - "You" by Gong and Black Sabbath's first album. Both had one noisy side and one acceptable side. The Gong album even had something that looked like a small, fine feather, embeded in the vinyl. The Black Sabbath album not only had the surface noise, but had gaps between tracks that were supposed to segue into each other without a break!

I also got a very noisy U.S. Capitol reissue of Abbey Road, which I exchanged for a good quality U.K. pressing.

[Audioman]

A couple of the worst ones were "Get Back" reissues manufactured in Italy - "You" by Gong and Black Sabbath's first album. Both had one noisy side and one acceptable side. The Gong album even had something that looked like a small, fine feather, embeded in the vinyl. The Black Sabbath album not only had the surface noise, but had gaps between tracks that were supposed to segue into each other without a break!


These are actualy some of the earlier GZ vinyl produced titles (Czech republic). Sounds like the Black Sabbath uses the track breaks from the digital CD master. Fortunately GZ have improved since taking on many Universal Music label titles.

[indus]

David. It does sound that your Drum and Bass records are now from small labels that use poor sources and inferior pressing plants. There are a few that advertise this sort of service. I am sure the records from the 90's were distributed and pressed by the major labels. It does seem the market has moved away from 12" singles back to LPs possibly due to a drop in popularity of dance music and vinyl DJaying. Probably a factor in the demise of the SL1200.

Coloured vinyl and picture discs have always been problamatic though I have some coloureds that are very good including the new Norah Jones on white vinyl. In general I have found pressing quality to be improving after a dip 3 or 4 years ago. There are a number of labels and plants pressing high quality vinyl LPs including MOV, Speakers Corner, Warner, Mo-Fi, Analogue Productions and Pure Pleasure. Even Universal seem to have uped their game recently. Usualy the vinyl quality is acceptable to superb but source quality can vary. As long as they use High Res or Analogue sources rather than MP3 or CD masters the sound is fine.


Hi

Funnily enough I don't think these original tracks were on major labels, unless the major labels owned these specialised dance labels.

The original stuff now sells for silly money. The big tunes from that era in mint condition regularly have an asking price of £30-£50 and sometimes more!

[Minstrel SE]

I have just been playing Pink Floyd The Wall and side 3 has several small bumps like smooth lumps in the vinyl.

Although I was enjoying myself, at a critical quiet point I get a loudish thump as the needle rides this bump over about 8 grooves. It does spoil the enjoyment because Im listening for the quiet speech detail to be greeted with a pressing flaw. I wouldnt take it back to a supermarket as how would I even know the next copy isnt worse.

Its on heavyweight vinyl which Ive read is a marketing gimmick anyway

This is the thing with the vinyl revival in that nobody really dwells on the flaws with the medium. Am I really going to Pay £25 per time to relive some of these flaws?

[struth]

Ive had the odd one with that. It's a press fault but replacing it should solve it. Poor checking by manufacturer. They usually play but as u say you sometimes hear it

[Oddball]

I have just been playing Pink Floyd The Wall and side 3 has several small bumps like smooth lumps in the vinyl.

Although I was enjoying myself, at a critical quiet point I get a loudish thump as the needle rides this bump over about 8 grooves. It does spoil the enjoyment because Im listening for the quiet speech detail to be greeted with a pressing flaw. I wouldnt take it back to a supermarket as how would I even know the next copy isnt worse.

Its on heavyweight vinyl which Ive read is a marketing gimmick anyway

This is the thing with the vinyl revival in that nobody really dwells on the flaws with the medium. Am I really going to Pay £25 per time to relive some of these flaws?

I have no intention of buying music on new vinyl. I enjoy older pressings in my collection and a few second hand ones I buy , and am content with other mediums for new stuff etc

[paulf-2007]

Had one turn up and it looked like someone had been at it with a hammer, sent it back and another arrived much the same. Got a refund.

[montesquieu]

I'm currently subscribing to the DeAgostini jazz set in an effort to improve my jazz education. These are 180g reissues of pretty decent quality.

So far (40 or so albums in, about halfway) I've had to return three for pressing faults though on one occasion I gave up asking for a decent copy after getting three duff copies of the same record.

There may well be a few more bad pressings that I haven't picked up, as a modest percentage aren't to my taste at all, so I haven't necessarily got to the end of them (free jazz on the whole I just can't abide, and I'm not the biggest fan of some big band stuff, despite having played bass in a big band in my youth).

On the whole this isn't far off the sort of failure rate I remember when buying records back in 70s and 80s - though I always had/have a lot more issues with classical records than with rock/blues/jazz as in general the dynamic range required is greater and there are usually more quiet bits for noise or other damage to intrude into.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi there

I wonder if anybody has opinions on this?

I recently bought a tt to mainly listen to a form of dance music that was made originally about 1998- 2004. It is called jungle/ drum n bass. As the latter title suggests bass is a major part of the music style.

Anyway even though my tech is near standard when I played some of these original records they sounded great, lots of low kicking bass, just like I remembered from my raving days.

So I thought I'd buy some of the newer stuff ie produced within the last few years. I bought 7 records all from the same record label. As soon as I played it I found it sounded a little flat and there wasn't that tight low bass that the genre is known for. Some records almost had a compressed/mp3 sound to them.

Now it could be the artists/label didn't want that low sub bass in their recordings but that somehow seems unlikely as to an extent it defines the style of music. The records also seemed of poorer quality/finish than my original records ie one had rough/sharp/serrated edges and the spindle holes are sometimes so tight I can barely get the record to fit on.

Is all 'new' vinyl like this?

Drum & Bass has simply changed?! What you'd expect 20 years really....... I still listen (sometimes anyway) to a few of my early 90s Jungle 12's, if anything the earlier stuff sounds rougher than the later more tech influenced sound.

[WESTLOWER]

ECM do a fantastic job of mastering and cutting their new titles for vinyl release. So my answer to the original post would be some are utterly fantastic and some are meh! I also purchased a few new release jazz things and they honestly feel like the vinyl is an afterthought to tick that box...
New vinyl releases are relatively very expensive. I was sort of interested in checking the new Beck
Lp on vinyl, but apart from the material being too upbeat pop, prefer him depressed, it's so flipping expensive!!
£27 is way past my station for a new release. I think the record companies are taking the piss as they do limited runs and know in a year they will be all over discogs for ££.
On the other end of the spectrum premium new vinyl reissues can be possibly the best things I've ever heard!
The Bill Evans trio Sunday night at the village vanguard is in this bracket.
Unfortunately these sort of titles sell out quickly and then command stupid prices.
My point is they can be and should be great..it's lazy if they are not.
http://i.imgur.com/V2frfl4.jpg

[WESTLOWER]

Btw I have purchased premium £50+ MFSL sealed records and Music Matters sealed titles
And on numerous occasions have had pressing faults!
And as Tom said the replacement copy also had faults. So it can be a lottery

[Intenso]

In the reggae genre represses seem to have improved considerably, especially since the Japanese have gotten involved.

There is a Japanese company called Dub Store Records who are reissuing long out of print stuff using the original masters. The sound quality is fantastic.

There is also a few other labels such as Diggikiller in NY that have followed suit and again their vinyl is amazing and the cost to buy the originals of these would be hefty.

Finally, even Music on Vinyl who have reissued some of the Trojan catalogue have done a good job and as I have the originals I have been able to compare them and they're very good.

A label called Yep Roc in the states has started to reissue some of the Studio One stuff and again this is good but I've found that some of their pressings have faults including warps and the odd click.

I'd still rather buy originals to complete my collection but the prices are a complete joke these days and luckily I only have few gaps which some of these reissues have filled....

[Haselsh1]

Is all 'new' vinyl like this?

No mate, it definitely is not. I listen mainly to electronic music and some though not all, is absolutely stunning with a serious low bass.

[agk]

I shall deal with the main thrust later. I can't get past how d&b apparently ended in '04 at the moment.

[farflungstar]

I've been waiting for a copy of Vangelis, El Greco the anniversary edition to turn up. It arrived today and I'm so disappointed with the vinyl, it's marked all over wth what looks like staining and there's a couple of scratches to boot. Will play it later but can imagine surface noise will be awful. €120 pfff