Solar Power – where’s the catch?

[Barry]

I have recently been informed that my property might be suitable for the installation of solar panels. According to the company, Street Energy, they will install a free system on my roof for absolutely no cost to me.

There will be no administration or upfront costs
No survey costs
No supply and installation costs
No scaffolding costs
No insurance & maintenance costs.
Guaranteed repair should the roof become damaged during installation of the panels

In return Street Energy will receive the Government’s Feed In Tariffs over the 25-year period of the scheme. And during this time, Street Energy will maintain the system (including the all-important inverter).

At the end of the 25-year period, the system will become my property. The typical system life is claimed to be 35 – 40 years.

All electricity thus generated is “free for use in your home in return for the lease of your roof to Street Energy for the duration of the Feed In Tariff period.”

I seem, on the face of it, to be getting something for nothing. Where’s the catch? I must be missing something here. :scratch:

Have any members taken up similar offers, and if they have what are their experiences? Any comments and advice will be gratefully received.

Thanks

[NRG]

I have a PV system installed, not rented.

Check it does not affect your buildings insurance.

Do you plan to stay in the same house for the next 25 years? Will it affect the resale value of your house if you don't?

Do you really want to 'sell' your roof to a third party?

Solar panels degrade over time about 2% / year, in 25 years time they'll be at 50% capacity...

The greatest benefit is for a south facing roof, east or west and its not worth it without the subsidy.

Technology moves fast, even in a few years time let alone 25 Solar technology will have improved in leaps and bounds so at the end of 25 the system will be in effect junk, who will pay for it to be removed.

Domestic solar panels only made sense when the Government where throwing huge 43.3p subsidies at households...renting the roof or the current level of subsidy does not make sense.

[Martinh]

I seem, on the face of it, to be getting something for nothing. Where’s the catch? I must be missing something here.

You get nothing out of it except an obsolete system thats probably no longer working or supported by the mfr. FITs will probably change in the future and if this street energy co go bust, you'll be on your own.

I think it would be mad to contemplate something like this. I'm not even sure of the financial viability of buying your own system, let alone a scheme like this.

IMHO,

[slate]

It is my understanding that the inverter that converts to 240V/50Hz will have to be replaced every 6-10 years… depending on if it is a german or chinese model.

But solarpanels are also showing up around these parts nowadays; the fact that the panel prices have dropped 40% in the last couple of years have made it feasible even in these parts.
Today you can get a 6,5 kw package for 10.000£ including installation.

As a private person in Denmark you are allowed to connect max 6,5 kw to the grid. With current rates you can breakeven after 7-8 years. Even sooner if you do not have to borrow the ten grand.

[Martinh]

It is my understanding that the inverter that converts to 240V/50Hz will have to be replaced every 6-10 years… depending on if it is a german or chinese model.

But solarpanels are also showing up around these parts nowadays; the fact that the panel prices have dropped 40% in the last couple of years have made it feasible even in these parts.
Today you can get a 6,5 kw package for 10.000£ including installation.

As a private person in Denmark you are allowed to connect max 6,5 kw to the grid. With current rates you can breakeven after 7-8 years. Even sooner if you do not have to borrow the ten grand.

If you have to replace the inverter, get it serviced, pay interest etc. its difficult to see it as an investment. Not sure if it would add value to a property or decrease it.

The whole way it's marketed is a bit too "double glazing" for my liking.

Martin

[Tim]

I don't have much to add from a personal point of view, but some friends of mine in Weymouth had this done and are now trying to sell their house and it has proved a problem for them, with many prospective buyers being put of (mostly the ladies with the comment about ugliness). They had a lot of hassle getting it installed and now wish they hadn't bothered. They certainly feel it has devalued their property.

I guess if you never intend to move and don't much care about the appearance, it could be a good thing. But I would want to do a lot of research before if it was me and be 100% sure about the small print.

In principal though it seems a good thing from an energy point of view and it would be something I would consider, if I was in my own property. I'm all for doing everything possible to utilise sustainable energy and food stuffs.

[Mark Grant]

A link:
http://www.freesolarpanelsuk.co.uk/what-happens-if-you-sell-a-house-with-free-solar-panels-installed.php

I would be wary of free panels as the contract could be a problem in the future and what if the company goes bust and then the roof leaks around the panels etc?

With paid for and owned panels it could be a selling point I think and all that 'free' electricity would be useful.

Our roof faces the wrong way for a huge array of panels and too many trees in neighbours gardens causing shadows so no use for me.:(

I might do a DIY 1kw system when the prices are reasonable on our garage roof to cover our daytime usage and not bother with the feed in tariffs and contracts etc.

[Reid Malenfant]

In all honesty I wouldn't trust the inverter :rolleyes:

I don't mean to pee on anyones fire but for starters they aren't incredibly efficient as I should imagine most will be using older switch mode technology (non resonant).

I used to help design these things, test, repair & modify them so I have a little bit of knowledge of what would be involved & it's in no way insignificant compared to a simple SMPS.

It's not as if you can just generate an accurate 50Hz waveform as the grid is constantly changing in frequency to match the load. On top of that the voltage is varying according to local conditions your side of the local substation :rolleyes:

I have no idea how the hell they do it & unless some incredibly complex technology is involved I can foresee things getting pretty warm while your cheap inverter attempts to get the phase & voltage correct to feed into the grid & maximise the efficiency.


I wouldn't even contemplate it unless you are on top of a substation or unless like Mark suggests, you don't feed anything into the grid & you use what you are generating yourself :)

[NRG]

The inverter is like any other bit of electronics, it has a shelf life that may or may not exceed the manufacturers rating, the 'it must be replaced after x years' is incorrect, the inverter may continue to function well beyond its warranty period...the replacement line is undoubtedly a sales pitch to get you to spend more at some pojnt in the future.

As for the inverters being inefficient! :lol: The Sunny Beam types are up to 97% efficient...of course depending on the model.

[Clive]

I know of several people who had no end of hassle sorting their roof following installation.

[shane]

Why arer they giving it to you for nothing? Because they make more money from the FIT than it costs to install the system. Install your own system and make the money yourself, without the hassle of someone else owning a bit of your roof!

[Reid Malenfant]

As for the inverters being inefficient! :lol: The Sunny Beam types are up to 97% efficient...of course depending on the model.
I'd dearly love to see one tested & witness this 97% efficiency for myself :lol:

A high quality SMPS, that is supplying DC which is relatively easy remember may well manage 90% or slightly more depending on the load. I know as I used to work with them for many years.

So quite how these things can supply an AC waveform that matches the mains for both voltage & frequency & at up to 97% efficiency is quite beyond me.

If it doesn't match it precisely & remember that the voltage of the local grid varies as does the frequency & randomly at that, then the unit will be dissipating power.

Perhaps it could well manage up to 97% with a test generator supplying a constant 50Hz & constant RMS AC voltage. But the mains is anything but constant :rolleyes:


So I don't believe it - simples :cool:

[NRG]

No offense Mark but if its beyond you and you don't believe the claims take it up with SMA or report them to trading standards...they are not the only company who claim the same but are by far the market leaders. http://www.sma.de/

[Reid Malenfant]

No offense Mark but if its beyond you and you don't believe the claims take it up with SMA or report them to trading standards...they are not the only company who claim the same but are by far the market leaders. http://www.sma.de/
In all honesty no I don't believe them, though admittedly "up to 97% efficiency" is rather ambiguous at the end of the day.

As I won't be installing one I have no real need to make a big fuss now have I ;)

I'd suggest that they are quite likely to be below 80 - 90% efficiency most of the time, while happily agreeing that under perfect conditions they might manage 97% :eyebrows:


But as I have mentioned, mains aint in no way perfect, it's distorted as feck...

[NRG]

Well 90% efficient doesn't really equate to "they aren't incredibly efficient" does it...anyhow they're a bit better than that and much better than 80%...so while 97% may be the peak they do pretty well outside of the optimum range ;)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/Sunny_Boy_3000HF.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Well 90% efficient doesn't really equate to "they aren't incredibly efficient" does it...anyhow they're a bit better than that and much better than 80%...so while 97% may be the peak they do pretty well outside of the optimum range ;)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/Sunny_Boy_3000HF.jpg
I thought about this once again after my last reply...

You might remember I mentioned that mains voltage & frequency varies, well it then occured to me that the voltage & current output of the PV cells will do the same under different lighting conditions :lol:

So that just makes matters even more problematical imho.

You can show as many graphs as you like, none of them show input voltage & current, output voltage & current or frequency :rolleyes:

Smoke & mirrors ;)

[NRG]

:lol: The graph I posted does show input voltage! :doh: and the MPP tracking graph....I'll leave it there as the OP question was answered a while back and this current tangent will just go around and around in circles. :rolleyes: