The ultimate digital source?

[loonytunes]

Without spending a fortune on a TEAC VRDS or similar - has anyone got any thoughts what the ultimate digital source/transport is likely to be? Something affordable by thinking out of the box. Anyone with any experience?

It could very well be a vintage CD spinner using CDM9 Pro?

Or perhaps more likely to be something with no moving parts or a laser - something solid state like QA550 playing WAV files?

Or perhaps a computer with passive cooling and solid state drive - coupled to an async DAC?

Perhaps the humble Squeezebox Touch (which seems more of a gadget than an audiophile transport)?

[Chops]

Perhaps the humble Squeezebox Touch (which seems more of a gadget than an audiophile transport)?

Chris, I'm using a pimped up SBT with my Chord QBD76 DAC with excellent results. There are a few threads here that cover what you can do to improve SQ from the Touch.

What DAC will you be feeding?

Chris

[WOStantonCS100]

I think you've asked the unanswerable question when put that way.

Transport, gadget or data storage avec software player.

When digital music was freed from the ubiquitous "silver disc" for consumers, it really became a matter of lifestyle preferences. All options can be excellent. It seems, to me, it would all boil down to "which DAC"; because, in the end, that is where the 0's and 1's get converted back to music. If the DAC sucks, fughedaboutit. Everything before it no longer matters, in that case. Right?

[Gazjam]

All good options, as an ex SB Touch user I'd say its great but the PC route is better in my book.

Option 3 for me, but you don't need to have an SSD for music.
Apart from still being very expensive for a decent amount of storage you can run your music files from computer ram rather than from a hard drive using Memory Play feature from software such as Jriver.
Same difference :)

Also, the "ultimate" digital source for me has to factor in the "User Experience" too...ACCESSABILITY to your music, not just the ultimate sound quality?
As an ex Touch owner I can say the system there is great, especially with an Ipod or Ipad running IPeng as a remote control.

I've sold on my Touch and using a PC based source now and its a better way to access your music.
Much better playlist control, far bigger and better screen than the Touch and into an async Dac or using something like a Vlink makes for a great digital transport.

Compared to a vintage CD spinner it offers up so much more, and done right the sound can be as good or better.

[Chops]

I've sold on my Touch and using a PC based source now and its a better way to access your music.
Much better playlist control, far bigger and better screen than the Touch and into an async Dac or using something like a Vlink makes for a great digital transport.

Can't comment on SQ differences of PC vs SBT. However, for general playing of music I personally prefer iPeng to either the Logitech app or the Logitech Media Server running on PC, which I find a little slow (granted, it is running off a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo, which isn't quick) and not quite as intuitive (although it can ultimately do more).

Chris

[Chops]

Also, the "ultimate" digital source for me has to factor in the "User Experience" too...ACCESSABILITY to your music, not just the ultimate sound quality?
As an ex Touch owner I can say the system there is great, especially with an Ipod or Ipad running IPeng as a remote control.

Completely agree. I hardly play vinyl these days because its so easy to control playback through SBT via iPeng.

[Audioman]

Without spending a fortune on a TEAC VRDS or similar - has anyone got any thoughts what the ultimate digital source/transport is likely to be? Something affordable by thinking out of the box. Anyone with any experience?

It could very well be a vintage CD spinner using CDM9 Pro?

Or perhaps more likely to be something with no moving parts or a laser - something solid state like QA550 playing WAV files?

Or perhaps a computer with passive cooling and solid state drive - coupled to an async DAC?

Perhaps the humble Squeezebox Touch (which seems more of a gadget than an audiophile transport)?

Teac VRDS are hardly the ultimate digital source unless your talking top Esoteric or DCS who I believe use this transport. The old TEAC branded CD players are very good though and can be picked up for reasonable money. However condition is paramount and most ebay examples are missing the remote which is essential to dim the display for significant SQ improvement.

Based on limited experience I would put forward a machine that plays SACD discs. Of course this covers new Esoteric VRDS if you can afford one. I just aquired Nick Drake 'A Treasury' SACD compilation which Amazon are 'giving away' for under £3 at the present time.

Last night I compared the relevant tracks with the Japanese 200g Five Leaves Left. Equipment was Girodec v Denon Universal player (2003 vintage). Hardly hi-end SACD playback in theory. Well the reproduction is pretty close and I actualy prefered the SACD for a little added musicality. Now the situation may be different if I had first Island pressings or even Hannibal box but the Jap pressings (likely digital source) are very good and were a lot cheaper to purchase new.

There is certainly a strong case for reviving the SACD format. There are still quite a few Japanese players as it obviously still has a strong market there but SACD software releases are few but for MFSL and Analogue Productions audiophile reissues. Certainly a format I could live with if the vinyl revival came to an abrupt halt.

[bobbasrah]

Considering that what you are looking to play is digital, then I would suggest a hard drive is perfect as a digital source.
Unless you are paranoid that you may possibly hear a sata drive in what would need to be absolute silence, as Gary said, a SSD is both overkill and expensive storage. Passive cooling works well, but a large diameter slow rpm fan will pretty much snick your ear before you hear it...
Apart from spin-up, I have never heard my 6 drives running yet, nor the CPU or case fans unless I take the lid off and stick my head inside (which is neither conducive to viewing film nor listening to music...)

None of my optical players have seen any use since everything got ripped, and apart from packing away any new acquisitions, the optical discs are undisturbed in archive boxes gathering dust. I have changed the PC's optical drive and that was a cheap and simple swap, certainly cheaper than yet another 17" box to gather dust....

Point is, once you have the data on a drive rather than on a ROM, can back it up, play it through any program you like, network it, feed it to any usb or coax out you like, to any DAC you like to whatever, convert it, etc, etc... You are not only free of the ROM, you are also free of any restrictions imposed by the box player's audio system or regional coding.

Heard great thinks about the SBT from the guys on here but never used one, yet.....

[Gazjam]

Considering that what you are looking to play is digital, then I would suggest a hard drive is perfect as a digital source.
Unless you are paranoid that you may possibly hear a sata drive in what would need to be absolute silence, as Gary said, a SSD is both overkill and expensive storage. Passive cooling works well, but a large diameter slow rpm fan will pretty much snick your ear before you hear it...
Apart from spin-up, I have never heard my 6 drives running yet, nor the CPU or case fans unless I take the lid off and stick my head inside (which is neither conducive to viewing film nor listening to music...)

None of my optical players have seen any use since everything got ripped, and apart from packing away any new acquisitions, the optical discs are undisturbed in archive boxes gathering dust. I have changed the PC's optical drive and that was a cheap and simple swap, certainly cheaper than yet another 17" box to gather dust....

Point is, once you have the data on a drive rather than on a ROM, can back it up, play it through any program you like, network it, feed it to any usb or coax out you like, to any DAC you like to whatever, convert it, etc, etc... You are not only free of the ROM, you are also free of any restrictions imposed by the box player's audio system or regional coding.

Heard great thinks about the SBT from the guys on here but never used one, yet.....

wot he said. :)

As an ex-Toucher (that come out right?) I can say its a great system, especially with the touch screen remotes you can use.
Far more options with a PC system though and your not tied to one particular system, unlike the Logitech way.
You can control your music via touchscreen remote with a PC based solution as well, you are not tied to the mouse and keyboard approach.

Some vids, two different media centre programs for PC

JRIVER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG0UZulxt2g

XBMC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDs0HV0Pls

now picture operating those from your sofa on a big telly...with same or better audio quality than a CD spinner or SB Touch?
Better? :)

Regarding noise from the pc, I sit about 10 feet away from my "wall" which has my speakers, equipment rack PC etc.
I put a lot of thought into building my pc regarding quietest fans etc and I cant hear it over my Virgin media Tivo box hard drive ticking away, even when on stanby grrrrrrrr.

[Tim]

Or perhaps a computer with passive cooling and solid state drive
Hard to beat for the money, especially if you can build it yourself - my streamer has no moving parts and is passively cooled :)

[Reid Malenfant]

<snip> All options can be excellent. It seems, to me, it would all boil down to "which DAC"; because, in the end, that is where the 0's and 1's get converted back to music. If the DAC sucks, fughedaboutit. Everything before it no longer matters, in that case. Right?
Actually in the case of a silver disc spinner I have found the transport to be very important indeed :)

I used to run a Theta Data Basic with Philips CDM9 Pro mechanism, which was a fine sounding transport, though it had a few problems with certain discs :scratch:

To cut a long story short, I ended up having a new laser mech fitted which certainly sorted any problems with certain CDs = happy chappy :D

The thing is just after the start of the 2008 recession I picked up my Krell DT10 transport... I was simply blown away by the difference compared to the Theta & nothing else had changed :scratch: Same DAC, same everything, & yet it made the Theta sound like it was malfunctioning even though it obviously wasn't :confused:

[Gazjam]

SSD's are still a very expensive storage option though, especially if your music is on Flac....

In my lounge the PC has an SSD, but its networked to my work PC in another room that has all the noisy hard drives.
Both PCs are set to run at minimum power usage unless it needs more, where it automatically takes what it needs.

But anyways, at the risk of going off topic I'd say the PC/DAC route is the ultimate digital transport for me, especially due to it being a helluva lot more versatile and fun to use than other options.
Sound quality is the same / better (add opinion here) than the others too.

Best of both I suppose

[bobbasrah]

Actually in the case of a silver disc spinner I have found the transport to be very important indeed :)


Essentially Biff is correct in that the optical disc is ultimately a legacy digital storage medium. Until downloading or whatever becomes more commonplace, optical disc remains the predominant container for distribution. Where that is the audio source, as Mark says, a good design can make a world of difference, but it remains a digital medium, a file by any other name.

Although there are some issues to be fine tuned in terms of getting the audio optimally out from computers (since they were never designed for that purpose), there can be no doubt that modern capacious hard drives, media players, file formats (and conversion), and external DACs have closed the gap to the finest optical players. The costs are a fraction of what previous methods would demand.

That I can pack away a portable drive, DAC, and phones with the laptop and take my entire library with me, is priceless.

[pete_mac]

A Squeezebox Touch with a jitter reduction device (ie. Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh via coax, or the Audiophilleo 2 via USB in conjunction with the Enhanced Digital Output app) is a pretty formidable transport.

[loonytunes]

Thanks everyone so far... I notice that some of you are really into the convenience and usability of items such as the Squeezebox - I fully understand where you are coming from!

However in my case - I am simply asking - what transport will deliver the goods 'sonically' - I am not worried about convenience - just pure unadulterated sound quality at this point in time (into a respective DAC).

For example, some say good CD players do the job well because they do not suffer the electrical noise computers generate; but async USB DACs overcome some of this - or perhaps even wireless DACs such as the NAD DAC-1 which will obviously detach themselves completely from the computer and offer the ability to output to a better DAC (16 bit sound limited I agree - but I am not interested in 24 bit and up-sampling etc - I am not chasing numbers).

Or perhaps good old optical from the computer to the DAC - for complete isolation once again.

Then JPlay comes along - with the theory that computer playback using fast processors to keep the timing of the music in check is the way to go.

So with all the above - who's got the revealing system out there and experience, because I won't have enough time to sort through all this lot - hence this post.

[loonytunes]

A Squeezebox Touch with a jitter reduction device (ie. Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh via coax, or the Audiophilleo 2 via USB in conjunction with the Enhanced Digital Output app) is a pretty formidable transport.

Good to know however that you can make a SB Touch (which is a gadget more than an audiophile product) into something that sounds excellent using a jitter reduction device....

Incidently pete_mac - off topic a tad - I see your enthusiasm for vintage amps (the Sansui)- I just happen to be mucking about with a buy I got from a charity shop, a monster vintage Technics SU-V90D (not as good as yours I know but it gives a taste of good vintage). The package also included a Technics SL-P990 CD player, very smart (and very big).

[twelvebears]

Good to know however that you can make a SB Touch (which is a gadget more than an audiophile product) into something that sounds excellent using a jitter reduction device....

I do just wonder what makes folks pigeon-hole the SBT as a 'gadget'? The fact that it doesn't weigh or cost as much as a small car?

I've own more than my fair share of the latter, but I wouldn't dismiss the Touch as a gadget.

It may be cheap and fit in the palm of one hand, but it was designed specifically as a serious music device and the only 'gadgety' bit about it is the touch-screen.

Let's not forget some of the nonsense 'audiophile' products of the past...http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/mutton_in_wolfs_clothing/

:)

[loonytunes]

Thanks Twelvebears for pointing me to that article.

In a sense I would really like the SBT to be the transport to own because its easy to accommodate and great to use - perhaps being solid state with no moving parts it must be better than any CD spinner (or is it?). However I doubt there are any premium parts in there from the power supply perspective in an enclosure that small - or any decent shielding from a plastic case - I just fear that the SBT was built to be petite and fanciful for the masses rather than optimised for the audiophile.

I know that the Lampizator had to completely rework the SB Duet before he was satisfied it was one of the best transports on the Planet - but after he'd mucked about with it, it was unrecognisable.

[RichB]

I put a lot of thought into building my pc regarding quietest fans etc and I cant hear it over my Virgin media Tivo box hard drive ticking away, even when on stanby grrrrrrrr.

Yes, currently the biggest flaw in my system... that tivo box ticking away. the other night i was on my hands and knees in front of the speakers just to make sure they werent humming and tracked it out to the ruddy tivo, more reason to play at volume eh?

[Stratmangler]

Thanks Twelvebears for pointing me to that article.

In a sense I would really like the SBT to be the transport to own because its easy to accommodate and great to use - perhaps being solid state with no moving parts it must be better than any CD spinner (or is it?). However I doubt there are any premium parts in there from the power supply perspective in an enclosure that small - or any decent shielding from a plastic case - I just fear that the SBT was built to be petite and fanciful for the masses rather than optimised for the audiophile.

I know that the Lampizator had to completely rework the SB Duet before he was satisfied it was one of the best transports on the Planet - but after he'd mucked about with it, it was unrecognisable.

The Touch is an excellent starting place for a transport - instal the Triode Hi Def Audio app and you're really cooking.
The SBooster is a good piece of easy to add kit too - just plug the PSU lead into the SBooster, and the SBooster into the Touch.
There are plenty of aftermarket PSUs you can use too.

Don't knock it until you've tried it, and forget the "just a gadget" bollocks.
And don't forget that The Touch is not a Squeezebox Receiver - it's a far better sounding piece of kit in stock form.

[Mothman]

There are many Touch converts on here of which I am definitely one. If you you are not in a rush then wait until they are on offer (which they often seem to be lately) and get one. If you decide it's not for you and want to sell it on, you are unlikely to lose more than £50 at worst, but my guess is you'll be hooked:). For the best experience though just make sure you run it with the dedicated server software via a PC, NAS ect and don't just a plug hard drive into the USB socket on the back.

Another alternative would be to ask if there is an AOS member in your area who is prepared to bring theirs round for you to try.

[loonytunes]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not running down the SBT - in fact I did own one, but do not any more.

Presently I am using a netbook-- usb lead -- async DAC, as my music source - but even though I have got the best sound this way (so far), I still need to ask the question about what is truly the best for sound quality rather than usability at this point in time.

Yes, I accept that the SQ was excellent from the SBT, but not as good as I have now. However, saying that, I am using a different DAC from when I heard the SBT - and if I plugged the SBT into my existing DAC it might very well sound just as good as it does now with the netbook. Plus I only used the SBT in stock form.

I fully understand why people would be enamoured by an SBT having used one - but SQ wise - would it beat a Pioneer Stable Platter, or perhaps bringing myself more up to date - and Oppo Blu-Ray player as a transport (accepting that an Oppo is probably in fact an excellent all round package and to not to just single out the transport mechanism on it)?

Remember I am seeking advice on the best transport based on SQ alone rather than usability - if I did base this all on a good mix of usability and SQ together (rather than purely SQ which is my question), then I agree the SBT is likely to win!

[Stratmangler]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not running down the SBT - in fact I did own one, but do not any more

When did you get rid of it?

[wee tee cee]

I find the lap top-usb-v link-co ax-dac route to offer the best performance I have achieved so far. I ran a duet with maplins psu but running straight the lap top sounds better to my ears.
Regards Tony.

[loonytunes]

When did you get rid of it?

About 6 months ago... I passed it on to a member of the family.

[Stratmangler]

About 6 months ago... I passed it on to a member of the family.

So you haven't heard the effects of the Triode plugin then....

[pete_mac]

Good to know however that you can make a SB Touch (which is a gadget more than an audiophile product) into something that sounds excellent using a jitter reduction device....

Incidently pete_mac - off topic a tad - I see your enthusiasm for vintage amps (the Sansui)- I just happen to be mucking about with a buy I got from a charity shop, a monster vintage Technics SU-V90D (not as good as yours I know but it gives a taste of good vintage). The package also included a Technics SL-P990 CD player, very smart (and very big).

Interesting amp that... quite well built as far as I can tell. How does she sound?

re: the Touch, a jitter-reduction device really lifts its performance to another level. You really can't compare the performance of a standard Touch with one coupled with such a device, such is the nature of the improvement.

[Darren]

Ive got a Touch and a netbook. Tried both into a number of dacs and they both sound very similar to me. I personally dont want to see a laptop on my hifi rack but YMMV. The Triode mod for the Touch is very worth while.

[Spur07]

I considered the SB Touch when it first come out due to the fact it allowed you to get away from the computer as the central element of a HD system, but reports at the time suggested it couldn't match the SQ of a half decent computer set up. And then there's the versatility of the computer based system if you consider how much more there is to be squeezed from HD audio.

I am intrigued however by all these mods that have come to light and lets face it, it's excellent value for money.

[loonytunes]

No I must admit - I have not tried the Triode mod - looks interesting.

And back at you... have you tried running a powerful computer (i5 processor minimum) with JPlay?

No I haven't either... but after reading the AOS thread here: MDAC vs Rega DAC - someone pointed to this article: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0412/usb_dac_shootout.htm

It would seem a combination of a decent computer - using JPlay - and an async DAC rivals vinyl. This is from a reviewer that has always been unhappy with digital sound compared to vinyl "until now"... take a gander....

[loonytunes]

Interesting amp that... quite well built as far as I can tell. How does she sound?...

...she sounds very very good! This could have me addicted to beast size vintage amps! Do you happen to know anyone that could look over this amp (due to its age) and make sure its in tip top condition?

[michaelhigh]

...consists of a Gateway SX-2802 (upsamples to 24/192 via Realtek high definition sound card and silent by the way), wav, flac and flac uncompressed (I tried them all to see if there was a difference), into the marvelous relatively new schiit bifrost DAC (non-upsampling, reads what it sees) via toslink, and my first SET amp (Decware Zen Triode Select, based on EL-84's, about 9 years old!) into amazing Klipsch Fortes from the 80's (1986). All in all it really amazed me that for a bunch of sort-of-shoved together kit it sounds pretty great. I don't know if this is the best, but I'm pretty darn pleased, especially gradgiating to toobs.:D

[pete_mac]

...

...she sounds very very good! This could have me addicted to beast size vintage amps! Do you happen to know anyone that could look over this amp (due to its age) and make sure its in tip top condition?

Excellent!

Send it to Australia and I'll check her over ;)

In all seriousness, the only techs that I am aware of in England are in the Sansui section of the audiokarma forum. They'd be able to check the amp. There are probably countless others, and perhaps some who are bases on this forum too.

[Stratmangler]

And back at you... have you tried running a powerful computer (i5 processor minimum) with JPlay?

No I haven't either... but after reading the AOS thread here: MDAC vs Rega DAC - someone pointed to this article: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0412/usb_dac_shootout.htm

It would seem a combination of a decent computer - using JPlay - and an async DAC rivals vinyl. This is from a reviewer that has always been unhappy with digital sound compared to vinyl "until now"... take a gander....

Why would I want to pay for a media player when Foobar2000 does a great job when I'm playing stuff directly off the PC?
And don't forget, Foobar can do stuff that JPlay can't, such as play DSD files :eyebrows:

[loonytunes]

Why would I want to pay for a media player when Foobar2000 does a great job when I'm playing stuff directly off the PC?
And don't forget, Foobar can do stuff that JPlay can't, such as play DSD files :eyebrows:

I see what you are saying, but I guess some people want to pay for something that promises and delivers noticeably better sound than they have now (typically an Audiophile) - and anyway - I believe you can download the trial version and find out for yourself. Also, JPlay can also work as a plugin for Foobar (which is only useful if JPlay really does improve the sound considerably of course and allows you to keep using your media player of choice).

Basically JPlay shuts down all unnecessary processes on the computer leaving the media player (such as Foobar) a quieter and more prioritised environment to run in.

There again - a free alternative called Fidelizer does a similar thing to JPlay - but is less sophisticated - however you can compare Fidelize (free) and JPlay together seeing as they strive to achieve roughly the same thing.

[Stratmangler]

I see what you are saying, but I guess some people want to pay for something that promises and delivers noticeably better sound than they have now (typically an Audiophile) - and anyway - I believe you can download the trial version and find out for yourself. Also, JPlay can also work as a plugin for Foobar (which is only useful if JPlay really does improve the sound considerably of course and allows you to keep using your media player of choice).

Basically JPlay shuts down all unnecessary processes on the computer leaving the media player (such as Foobar) a quieter and more prioritised environment to run in.

There again - a free alternative called Fidelizer does a similar thing to JPlay - but is less sophisticated - however you can compare Fidelize (free) and JPlay together seeing as they strive to achieve roughly the same thing.

I like to keep running processes under control as a matter of course, so, because I'm not running stacks of background rubbish the machine runs better generally.
Which may explain why I don't hear differences between file types when I play them back with Foobar.

I'll have a play with JPlay, but I'm not expecting any improvement in sound quality to be honest. I'd like to be proven wrong :)

[magiccarpetride]

Without spending a fortune on a TEAC VRDS or similar - has anyone got any thoughts what the ultimate digital source/transport is likely to be? Something affordable by thinking out of the box. Anyone with any experience?

It could very well be a vintage CD spinner using CDM9 Pro?

Or perhaps more likely to be something with no moving parts or a laser - something solid state like QA550 playing WAV files?

Or perhaps a computer with passive cooling and solid state drive - coupled to an async DAC?

Perhaps the humble Squeezebox Touch (which seems more of a gadget than an audiophile transport)?

My vote would go for SBT (Squeezebox Touch), but with a caveat: it is only after you invest in a lot of after-market products that SBT becomes a good digital transport. I'm talking investing a lot of effort/money into this box, which, at the end of the day, raises a question: perhaps all that investment adds up to substantial amount of time/money that could've been better invested elsewhere? My gut feel is that it's six one way, half dozen the other.

But keep in mind that I'm only talking about the sound quality, without considering convenience and user friendliness. I, same as many other music lovers, am prepared to sacrifice a lot of the ease of use if it means achieving breathtaking quality of music reproduction.

Another issue to keep in mind when considering fully beefed-up SBT is the fact that many people who are quite knowledgeable when it comes to digital music reproduction are adamant that very little, if anything, can be gained by beefing up and tweaking the digital transport. The jury seems to be still out on whether replacing the stock SBT PSU with a high quality after-market PSU could possibly change anything in terms of resultant sound quality. Subjectively, I would say that the differences between the two types of PSUs are staggering, but I'm always open to accept that I may be imagining things and may have fallen a victim of placebo or expectation bias.

Same consideration goes with regards to jitter: even in the cases where the differences in jitter between two configurations could be objectively measured, some experts question whether these measurable differences do indeed translate into audible differences?

Furthermore, many of us have heard pronounced differences in the sound quality when altering the buffer size on the SBT; at the same token, many experts claim that it is not possible that buffer size could ever influence the resultant sound. And on and on, the topic is highly controversial and, from what I've seen, pretty much unresolvable.

All said and done, Touch is a great gadget for the tweakers;)

[Welder]

Part of the problem here is one has to accept that people have different hearing ability and different preferences in the type of sound they find most pleasant to listen to.

None of the above has much to do with something being better than something else and very rarely anything to do with a right v wrong sound. Nobody actually knows what sounds right, transparent, authentic etc, we’re all guessing basically.:eyebrows:

Having written that there doesn’t seem to be much harm in applying both a bit of common sense and where applicable a bit of measurement.
Both common sense and measurement suggest that moving parts not only make noise but may well introduce, in this case digital transports, errors. Bear in mind for CD for example it’s still 16/44 source data however one choose to serve it.
Do away with the moving parts and that’s one less factor to worry about.

Next most would agree that the more complex the system the more there is to go wrong.
Send any signal through a chain of components which have the ability to alter it, the less likely it is that you get the same signal at the end of the chain. This may or may not be a good thing regarding how sounds get presented to you with digital; some for example prefer the sound of up-sampled data, but if you’re going for closest to source fewer processes seem preferable.
So, least complex playback chain.

I would start with the above which rules out mechanical CD transports, systems with multiple computers handling the data and wireless configurations (because of bandwidth limitations and complexity)

For me this has meant a purpose built music server with no moving parts, a minimal operating system that gives a music player direct access to the core audio drivers but can still give a useable GUI (Linux Puppy/mpd/Deadbeef) with asynchronous USB data transfer to take advantage of a Dac with its own clock to reduce jitter.

After that it’s all going to depend on what you believe you can hear and what you prefer.

[brian2957]

Well put John. Still working towards the objectives you have stated above , getting there slowly but surely.:)
Brian.

[Gazjam]

I like to keep running processes under control as a matter of course, so, because I'm not running stacks of background rubbish the machine runs better generally.
Which may explain why I don't hear differences between file types when I play them back with Foobar.

I'll have a play with JPlay, but I'm not expecting any improvement in sound quality to be honest. I'd like to be proven wrong :)

Chris,
The Jriver guy advises against using JPlay with his software, dunno if the same would apply to Foobar?

Know from personal listening that Jplay(to me) didn't improve JRiver only "change" it.
In fact I preferred the sound without as it seemed to sound less processed.

Fidelizer makes a positive difference and its free!

[Gazjam]

Well put John. Still working towards the objectives you have stated above , getting there slowly but surely.:)
Brian.

Brian,
when you come over feel free to ask anything you want! :)
Not an expert but can probably offer some experience.

[Welder]

Foobar most definitely doesn't recommend JPlay. I believe they went as far as calling it a scam! :eek::D

[Gazjam]

Foobar most definitely doesn't recommend JPlay. I believe they went as far as calling it a scam! :eek::D

Well that just shows to go ye!

[Z-A]

The Metronome Kalista ref ( or ultimate) is maybe the best cd transport available today. Partner it with a pure 16 bit nos dac, and you may well have heard digital as good as you ever will.
Rgds
Paul

[Tim]

Know from personal listening that Jplay (to me) didn't improve JRiver only "change" it.

That has been my experience too - I have changed from Foobar to JRiver recently (MC version 17) and I have had numerous goes with JPLAY, but have yet to be persuaded it's worth it's cost in my system. The latest JRiver is excellent and well worth 50 bucks. In fact I didn't pay that anyway, as after my free trial had expired I got sent a $10.00 discount voucher to persuade me to buy it :)

[WAD62]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as an 'Ultimate Digital Source', as I believe it's rather dependant on the DAC which will be consuming it...

In my study I use a Beresford 7510, and supply it with FLAC upsampled to 24/96 using SoX, via ASIO, and a coax from my soundcard. The sound is subtly improved (to my ears anyway) by the upsampling process in this configuration.

However, I've recently acquired an M-DAC in my main system, this is being sourced by an SB receiver (upgraded PSU and Sbooster). After a lot of experimentation using an upsampling laptop and SoX into the asynch USB, messing with turning replay gain off and on, on both the laptop and the SB. It is patently obvious that the M-DAC is at it's best with the raw 16/44.1, it sounds dramatically better whether from a laptop or the SB.

I think this enables the M-DAC to 'do its stuff', whatever that may be (D3E engine, Jitter Rejection engine etc.)

One minor issue is I can no longer stand to use replay gain and crossfade on the SB feeding the M-DAC, I used to love the convenience for playlists etc. But once you move away from the bit perfect original (using RG & crossfade resamples the source to 24/44.1, according to the M-DAC display, and none of the processors are activated), the SQ drops noticeably.

On the plus side the M-DAC does seem to compensate for the less than perfect SB Receiver, as I can't tell the difference between using it as a source of 16/44.1 or my ASIO laptop via USB...and I did expect there to be a difference between them...:)

[bobbasrah]

But surely that is not the source Will?
What you are referring to is not the storage medium, but the pipeline?

Whereas I completely agree that without the following processes, the data is useless, but this is no different to the turntable etc where without the source (plastic disc) the "information" is equally useless without the bits to transpose that information into something intelligible. Unless you are a Lady Gaga fan of course....

[WAD62]

But surely that is not the source Will?
What you are referring to is not the storage medium, but the pipeline?

Whereas I completely agree that without the following processes, the data is useless, but this is no different to the turntable etc where without the source (plastic disc) the "information" is equally useless without the bits to transpose that information into something intelligible. Unless you are a Lady Gaga fan of course....

Damn the truth is out :lol:

Fair point Bob, my source is SqueezeCenter (7.3.3) running on a QNAP TS-119 turbo NAS, serving up FLAC to 4 players around the house...Along with any number of laptops/PCs

My server is hard wired to the router, but all the clients access it via Wi-Fi

I've stuck with the old 'SlimDevices' server, as it's stable, and efficient ;)

[bobbasrah]

No worries Will,
My own system is relatively simple, but thoroughly "musical" in it's modest way, and I believe it will get better still, not night and day bullshit, just better...
After all. it was always about the music, but the digital side does not mean a second mortgage to achieve quite extraordinary quality levels compared to a few years ago.
Enjoy....

[Yomanze]

The Metronome Kalista ref ( or ultimate) is maybe the best cd transport available today. Partner it with a pure 16 bit nos dac, and you may well have heard digital as good as you ever will.
Rgds
Paul

I have one of these on the way:

http://www.audialonline.com/html/model-s/images/model-s4.jpg
http://www.audialonline.com/html/model-s/

Hopefully my last DAC & a candidate for "ultimate"!

[loonytunes]

It's amazing that a candidate for the ultimate source still has the old fashion TDA1541A chips deployed!

[Yomanze]

It's amazing that a candidate for the ultimate source still has the old fashion TDA1541A chips deployed!

It is funny isn't it... The TDA1541A reaches the limits of what's possible from 16bit audio even if it is "old".

It's far too expensive for modern companies to produce multibit, current output DACs. ;)

...not many manufacturers want to dedicate 3x power supplies for one DAC (which the TDA1541A needs) when they can throw a cheap +5V regulator to power a cheap delta/sigma DAC & most other digital chips on board.

[loonytunes]

The Metronome Kalista ref ( or ultimate) is maybe the best cd transport available today. Partner it with a pure 16 bit nos dac, and you may well have heard digital as good as you ever will.
Rgds
Paul

Sorry to refer way back to this comment, but upon looking at the Metronome Kalista which costs a fortune - my bet is that the QA550 depicted here: http://www.chevronaudio.co.uk/html/untitled24.htm would give it a good run for its money simply because there's no moving parts coupled with good quality components. Yes yes I know its severly restricted because it will only play WAV files and not stream - and it has a bling factor of zero out of ten - but my point is - will it sound better even though its not shiny?

So lets partner the QA550 with a pure 16 bit nos dac and see what happens (trouble is I don't have either for the comparison :rolleyes:).