Room correction available now @ BD-Audio

[BD-Audio]

Ready now, Antimode 2.0 Dual Core remote control digital room correction and the stereo/mono subwoofer correction models.
I'm using the Dual Core model with my 4-way horns right now.
http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

Prices

Mono unit £235.40
Stereo £304.95
Dual Core £680

All models postage free.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/durant24/D_2b4d6af72e.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/durant24/D_072dcbd5b6.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

I can certainly say that the mono & stereo subwoofer only (8033c/s) units are superb value for money :) I'd never be without them having used them!

Good luck with these new units, I hope you do well with them.

[BD-Audio]

Thank you!

[realysm42]

If you wanted to use one of these for a single sub, the mono version is what you'd need ins't it?

I had a look at the dual core link you provided and this can be used with speakers as well?

[BD-Audio]

That's right Martin, if you are only looking to treat a single sub the mono unit will do the job perfectly.

[realysm42]

I know it's hard for you not to be biased, but is there ever a case when you wouldn't hear the benefit of one of these?

I'd like to give one a go, of course if I like what I hear i'd keep it, but if not, I wouldn't want to be stuck with it.

[Reid Malenfant]

That's right Martin, if you are only looking to treat a single sub the mono unit will do the job perfectly.
Only as long as Martin has a line level mono output that is in sync with the overall stereo (or multichannel) volume control & output from some kind of pre amp.

Otherwise things become more complex, though not impossible :)

[realysm42]

Only as long as Martin has a line level mono output that is in sync with the overall stereo (or multichannel) volume control & output from some kind of pre amp.

My sub is connected to my amp via two cables, from my 'Line level out' if that helps tell you anything?

How could I check it's in synch with everything else (I know I can use my ears, it sounds in time lol) but is there more to it?

[Reid Malenfant]

You'd need the 8033s (stereo) then Martin, it has left & right inputs & mixes them together, extracts the bass & feeds it out to one channel that you'd feed your sub...

As long as you have a line level output you are laughing :)

[realysm42]

Cheers Mark, coming with the goods as per.

Why does my sub have a stereo connection, I assume for better sound quality?

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Mark, coming with the goods as per.

Why does my sub have a stereo connection, I assume for better sound quality?
I doubt it... It mixes both left & right & passes on the bass to the amp, the same as the 8033s would. It has to mix & output a mono channel after all.

The thing is you need to use one that accepts both channels, no point in just connecting one after all :mental:

So the 8033s would do the job & then feed mono bass to your sub. The sub only mixes & adds the two together the same as the 8033s would. But if you didn't use the 8033s to mix them both you'd need two 8033c & then feed each to the sub :mental:

Costs more, is more complex & damn stupid if you ask me :eyebrows:

Hope that helps :cool:

[realysm42]

I'm not sure if that helps atall :lol:

I'll just take your advice and try out the stereo version :eyebrows:

Cheers Mark :yesbruv:

[Reid Malenfant]

Martin, I'll send you a PM tomorrow explaining things a bit clearer. But to do the best job for the cheapest money it's the 8033s you'll need :cool:

Don't rush into it though... You see the 8033 series get rid of room modes up to about 144Hz. The lower the frequency that you are feeding your sub, the less effect it'll have, as the left & right speakers will not get any room correction - only the sub.

There is a bit to it & you really ought to grasp it before going there :) I'll fill you in as best as I can :)

[realysm42]

Thanks Mark, I really appreciate it mate.

[BD-Audio]

Thanks for helping out while I slept Mark, Martin, if at all you felt it did not work for you I'd be happy to take it back in a 7 day period such is my confidence in these products.

[BD-Audio]

The results from a demo yesterday.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/durant24/IanS1.jpg

[purite audio]

That was one severe resonance peak!
Keith.

[BD-Audio]

Yes when I initially listened before connecting up the DualCore the bass boom was very obvious!

[purite audio]

I bet!
KR Keith.

[Reid Malenfant]

Thanks for helping out while I slept Mark
You're more than welcome :)

That was one severe resonance peak!
Keith.
No kidding, the 35Hz peak (approximately) would be immediately noticeable & result in a good deal of one note bass :rolleyes: The 23Hz peak (again approximately) due to it's narrower nature wouldn't be so obtrusive, but still a pain with music that goes low enough.


These things are superb, I'll never run any main system without them again & I'm in no way messing about :cool:

[realysm42]

If you get lots of peak, it sounds like bass all blend into a monotone sound, or sounds really boomy and shouty?

[Reid Malenfant]

Both really, lack of bass definition & a lot of boom rather than being able to make out each individual note. As you say, it's monotonous :rolleyes:

[realysm42]

Is this kind of DSP what people try to achieve with room treatments, just another angle of attack?

[Reid Malenfant]

Yes, but I'd suggest that this is going to be more vastly more accurate in the bass end. Remember they can't correct above about 144Hz ;)

As I suggested in the PM I sent you, it's best to use as much of that frequency range up to 144Hz as possible. That way you'll benefit the most, also why I'd use small stand mount speakers (with a sub or subs operating to as high a frequency as possible) if I hadn't ever gone active :)

[DaveK]

I am not doubting anything that anyone has posted, least of all Mark RM but I see this as a 'use once and store in the loft until you rearrange or change something in your layout' sort of product and how often do most of us do that?
As such, given it's apparent ease of portability, could there not be a case for a group of forum members, or the forum as a whole, buying one for shared use amongst quailfying members?
Any thoughts?
Dave.

[purite audio]

Room correction devices have to be installed in the system all the time, I imagine the Duo Core is the same?
Keith.

[realysm42]

Yeah, it needs to be on all of the time to work, like any other part of your system.

[BD-Audio]

Correct connected and left in the system.
I have stock arriving Friday available for instant shipping.

[Reid Malenfant]

Correct connected and left in the system.
Oh yes, maybe that's why I'm using two of the 8033c but will be using three & an 8033s :eek:

Just don't ask, but it's all part of a much bigger picture :eyebrows:

So I have spent approximately £900 on these things & I don't regard myself as deranged, well not yet at least :D

[BD-Audio]

Fantastic! A true believer (and with good reason).

Happy to do free shipping on these. :eyebrows:

[IanS1]

The results from a demo yesterday.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/durant24/IanS1.jpg

That'll be my room. As you can see the Dualcore did a fantastic job of leveling out that bass hump, a very pleasing result. We didn't have a huge amount of time for extended listening that afternoon but I will be getting the Dualcore back for a longer trial.

[twelvebears]

Finances are rather tied up in the run-up to getting married next month but I would be very interested in trying the Dual Core.

I have a NAD M2 Digital amp and it has a 'digital loop' which I presume I could use the Dual Core in and do all the correction in the digital domain.

My listening room is a rather square and prone to nodes, so this could be a good solution for me, and if it works, would be a simple and unintrusive fix.

Has anyone else tried one in 'digital mode'?

[BD-Audio]

We used it briefly at Ians, optical in and back out to a Dac. He is having an extended loan in a couple of weeks so no doubt will share further thoughts then.

My take on it is that it works just as well either way it is connected but I suppose the more suspicious of members would suspect I am bias. In truth though I only propose to sell products which blow me away with their performance and which I myself would love to use myself. I believe I will build BD-Audios reputation over the years this way and grow a trusted and popular dealership on the back of this ethos.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Jack, I have a couple of questions about the dual core..

I did attempt to look up the answers in the owners manual PDF but no joy I'm afraid :scratch:

There are customizable high pass filter settings available apparently, this can be handy as an infrasonic filter. What is the lowest frequency programable?

Second question is the unit has both left & right inputs & outputs, but only a single microphone input I notice. Can each channel be calibrated seperately or is it a case of doing both at once with the same microphone at the same time?


Cheers in advance & apologies as you'll likely be scratching your head as well :eyebrows:

[BD-Audio]

I have the benefit of having one here to check.... :)
The infrasonic can be set at 10,15 or 20Hz.
The mic does both channels at the same time yes.
Hope this helps!

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Jack, even though I like the idea of balanced inputs & outputs I think I'd still prefer the dual mono method of using a pair of 8033c.


I can be a fussy bugger :D

Cheers for taking the time out to reply anyway :)

[BD-Audio]

Anytime. :D

[jandl100]

Sorry for being a bit of a ficko :mental: -- but what is the difference functionally between the stereo and the dual core units? :scratch:

[twelvebears]

Sorry for being a bit of a ficko :mental: -- but what is the difference functionally between the stereo and the dual core units? :scratch:

Hiya Jerry

As far I can see, it's because the Dual Core is able to work completely in the digital domain as it has digital inputs and outputs. The other units only have analogue in/outs.

S.

[BD-Audio]

That's correct, the Dualcore can process in the digital domain, incorporates its own Dac if you wish to use it, remote control and more functions for processing.
All the details are on my site if you wish to research further Jerry.

Also this FAQ may help. http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/datasheets/dspeaker/dualcorefaq.pdf

[jandl100]

OK, thanks folks.

£600-odd for a bass correction, DAC and remote controlled volume pre-amp sounds amazingly good value, doesn't it! :eek:

Any comments on the sound quality of the DAC and pre-section, Jack?

[BD-Audio]

It's subjective as always Jerry, I've used a Squeezebox with the internal Dac and it really impressed me, neutral sounding imo, my Audionote transport does not have optical out though so cd is going through the analogue section. The pre seems to be transparent to my ears, certainly no degradation to the sound here.
The great thing about the Dualcore in particular is the ongoing improvements being periodically rolled out via firmware updates which will add extra functionality and spec upgrades.
These are silly value, all UK stocks are now depleted and I am currently adding a waiting list together, Finland have told us 2 weeks MAX for a shipping, they can't make them fast enough. This should coincide with my credit/debit terminal going live though which will make the transactions easier, jeez the bank make a meal out of setting that up! :mental:

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Jack, me again :eyebrows:

Am I right in reading that it might be possible to evaluate the dual core for a short period of time?

I'm just wondering is all. I'm interested in this 10Hz filtering & how much if any phase shift this is going to add to proceedings at 10Hz itself.

In theory it might add next to nothing as it's obviously done digitally, though a passive version of a 24dB/octave filter would add 180 degrees phase shift at the cutoff frequency.

[BD-Audio]

Sure thing Mark,
My demo unit is out (on demo) and the early stocks are now gone, I'll post up when I get some more in, and if you'd like to try one on a 7 day return basis let me know.
Jack

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Jack, I doubt I'd need one for that long :D A couple of days at the most. It's not as if I don't know what the effects would be :eyebrows:


Absolutely no rush though, so put others first ;)

[jandl100]

Hmm. I must admit I wouldn't mind having a go with it myself! :)

[Reid Malenfant]

I have another question :)

Does the dual core cover the full audio range & only process up to about 150Hz? Or is it still bass only with a frequency response to the low hundreds similar to the 8033 series?

Might seem daft but if it passes the full audio range then the market is potentially much bigger :cool:

[BD-Audio]

Anti-mode correction range is configurable upto 500Hz. Manual adjustments
can be made over the full range, from about 5Hz upto 20kHz.

[Reid Malenfant]

Ah, so it will now pass full bandwidth audio, unlike the 8033 series. Nice one, that means it can be used by anyone & not just someone driving a sub :)


You have a whole load of new customers to get your message across to :D

[BD-Audio]

Sorry, I thought you knew that already.

[Reid Malenfant]

I suspected it, but I doubt very much that many other people know this fact ;)


The much bigger & vastly faster processing made me suspect it was so, still nice to have it confirmed though :)


I wish I had time to read about everything I'm interested in Jack, but life is just too short & something has to give way somewhere :lol:

[BD-Audio]

Here is another link to the FAQ, hope it helps.
http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/da...ualcorefaq.pdf

A link to my site,
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/index.html

[jandl100]

Yep, even I realised that it could be used as a single input, remote-controlled pre-amp. ;) :thumbsup:

[BD-Audio]

:) Actually it can be used as a remote control 3 input pre- USB, optical and analogue inputs.

[realysm42]

Here is another link to the FAQ, hope it helps.
http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/da...ualcorefaq.pdf

A link to my site,
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/index.html

Top links broken dude.

So this top of the range unit does speakers as well as subs, nice.

[BD-Audio]

How odd, here it is again.
http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/datasheets/dspeaker/dualcorefaq.pdf

[realysm42]

Am I reading the manual right, it can only be plugged into systems with pre and power amps but not integrated ones?

[BD-Audio]

No, it can go between source and amp (via analogue or digital in/out), pre and power or you can utilise a tape loop if you have one.

[realysm42]

Can I be a pain and ask what a tape loop is? My amps got a button on it away from the rest saying tape.

[Reid Malenfant]

Can I be a pain and ask what a tape loop is? My amps got a button on it away from the rest saying tape.
What you'd do martin is connect the tape output to the dual core & then the output of the dual core would got to the tape input, you then use the tape monitor button to listen to your music.

Whatever input is selected, say CD, is automatically spat out to the tape output (some amps have a record selector switch). If you then select the tape monitor the CD will have gone through the processor :)

[BD-Audio]

Exactly that. :)

[realysm42]

Would the best way to wire it be pc (usb) dac (xlr) dspeaker (xlr) amp?

I only say this as people tend to prefer xlrs.

Does this unit have fully balanced input and output?

[BD-Audio]

You would connect the USB to the unit then optical back out and into your Dac, that was all the processing is done in the digital domain. Easy.

[BD-Audio]

I am now able to take credit and debit card payments on these and all other products.

[BD-Audio]

Bumping up this thread as this is a fantastic product.

[Reid Malenfant]

Would the best way to wire it be pc (usb) dac (xlr) dspeaker (xlr) amp?

I only say this as people tend to prefer xlrs.

Does this unit have fully balanced input and output?
The analogue audio side of it has fully balanced XLR inputs & outputs. Some engineer being sensible at last :cool:

As for this:-

Would the best way to wire it be pc (usb) dac (xlr) dspeaker (xlr) amp?
I guess it depends on the quality of the inbuilt DAC compared to an external one, but at least you have multiple choice :)

[realysm42]

As soon as I've got the dough I'm on it like a car bonnet.

[BD-Audio]

Drop me a line when you're ready, I couldn't be without one in my private system now.

[BD-Audio]

Units still available from stock, I have many happy customers who could not be without one of these.
I carry all 3 in the range.
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/room-correction.html
Best regards,
Jack

[realysm42]

Given someone else's discovery at how hard they can make speakers work to apply the correction, have you ever noticed a difference it being in the chain?

[BD-Audio]

Sorry Martin, long day. How do you mean? The unit reduces output as standard so in fact gives the speakers an easier life.

[realysm42]

Someone mentioned doing a check on how hard their subs were working with the unit in the chain and how much easier they worked when it wasn't in the chain.

I think their conclucion is the unit (when doing it's dsp) forced units to work harder to counter the effects of whatever room they're placed in?

[BD-Audio]

I would have to see the measurements of the room to comment on that particular case but usually that is not the case, for instance if there is a boom issue the unit drops the output to fix it.

[Ali Tait]

But equally, if there are suck-out issues it must increase output?

[Clive]

But equally, if there are suck-out issues it must increase output?
Maybe it doesn't try. I admit to setting up my DSP manually to compensate a little for suckouts (nulls) but 2 x zero = zero so doubling the power into a suckout has little effect other than working the amps and speakers harder.

[BD-Audio]

Exactly. That's why I am confused as to why someone thought their equipment was working harder.

[Macca]

Now I'm confused - so it will correct peaks by reducing output but it does not do anything about suck outs?

[Clive]

Now I'm confused - so it will correct peaks by reducing output but it does not do anything about suck outs?
Suckouts are usually the result of cancellations due to room dimensions, speaker and listening position. To fix suckouts you really need to attend to the room or listener/speaker positioning.

[Macca]

Cheers Clive. I don't really have these issues myself but I did always assume that these correction devices both boosted and cut.

[Clive]

Cheers Clive. I don't really have these issues myself but I did always assume that these correction devices both boosted and cut.
Where there's a few db reduction then DSP will tend to work. If it's a cancellation suckout which looks like a deep V on a room analyser then there's nothing DSP can do tho reverse this. I've tried it but to no avail.

[bigdur]

Indeed, it is possible to make manual changes but a large suck out will not be automatically fixed on initial setup.

[bigdur]

My advise for working with a suck out would be to move your speakers closer to a rear wall and re-calibrate the unit.

[BD-Audio]

Darn, my phone had me logged in under my old account. Anyway, as above!

[Reid Malenfant]

Someone mentioned doing a check on how hard their subs were working with the unit in the chain and how much easier they worked when it wasn't in the chain.

I think their conclucion is the unit (when doing it's dsp) forced units to work harder to counter the effects of whatever room they're placed in?
That was me & I think I know where I probably messed up :doh:

What I forgot is that the 8033 has gain in the circuit, but of course as soon as I hit bypass then the signal passes straight through with no gain at all ;)

So while I was indeed using more power with the correction & I remember saying I was getting to the level where I was hearing distortion (that was the bass drivers by the way), as soon as I hit bypass the power level dropped due to no gain :)

Sorry Martin, a genuine case of needing to engage brain before hitting the keyboard :eyebrows:

[realysm42]

Another question on this; as my M-dac is asynchronous, if I were to have the data delivered via optical, I'd be losing this advantage wouldn't I?

[BD-Audio]

Connect the antimode (http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/dspeaker-anti-mode-2.html) to the tape loop of your amplifier then it doesn't matter.

There are some more updates released today.

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core/firmware-update.shtml

[BD-Audio]

Just a reminder that these are available from stock on a next day delivery.

Cheers,
Jack

[Markiii]

so If I understand correctly whether you input to the antimode by digital or analogue connections, Since it has to convert to digital to apply the DSP adjustments?

at this point aren't we losing any benefit of whatever expensive DAC was already in use in deference to however good or bad the ADC and DAC in the antimode is?

[BD-Audio]

If you pass through the digital in and out then to your Dac everything is done in the digital domain, running through the analogue side though the large majority of people using them can't detect a difference anyway.