Celestion 44 speakers - A pointless thread [Archive]

Wakefield Turntables

10-05-2012, 18:45

DSJR

10-05-2012, 18:52

Not at all, as they're still pretty good and offer a scale and "heart" that's totally missing from modern squeakerettes IMO :lol:

bogle111

10-05-2012, 22:35

I managed to bag a pair for £103 delivered. I'm delighted and over joyed. They are a bit tatty but I think this could be my next restoration project now that the Garrrad 301 is very very nearly finished. See told you it was pointless ;)

103 Pounds delivery sounds a tad expensive! I did like 44s though. Not boomy like the 66s!!!;) (Should I just duck or run away?):cool:

Regs
Pete

spendorman

11-05-2012, 07:37

Worth that for the HF 2000's.

I must dig my old pair of 44's out, quite a nice speaker.

Macca

11-05-2012, 07:39

103 Pounds delivery sounds a tad expensive! I did like 44s though. Not boomy like the 66s!!!;) (Should I just duck or run away?):cool:

Regs
Pete

Not at all - good sets go on e-bay for around £250 even if collection only.

Rare Bird

11-05-2012, 09:27

I did like 44s though. Not boomy like the 66s!!!;)

I prefer the '44's anyday :)

Wakefield Turntables

11-05-2012, 11:44

103 Pounds delivery sounds a tad expensive! I did like 44s though. Not boomy like the 66s!!!;) (Should I just duck or run away?):cool:

Regs
Pete

Nope, this is quite cheap, I've seen pairs go for 2-300 quid.

Worth that for the HF 2000's.

I must dig my old pair of 44's out, quite a nice speaker.

;) Yep, cant wait to get them through my valve system. The 15Xr's I have sound great I'm hoping these are a step up.

Not at all - good sets go on e-bay for around £250 even if collection only.

:D Well what can I say to this, I still think I got a bargain!

I prefer the '44's anyday :)

Andre, I partly bought the 44's from your recommendations in some earlier threads. My room isn't huge and it already has a stack of other gear in it so I'm hoping bass bloom dosen't shine through with these!

spendorman

11-05-2012, 12:07

I think that you are likely to find the bass very good, it's deep and not at all boomy, all in all, a well balanced speaker.

I recently gave a spare pare of 44's to a friend, he's delighted with the sound of them. Some of the other speakers he has are Quad ESL63's, Tannoy 12" Monitor Gold's, B&W DM2's, AR?, MS Pagents

Rare Bird

11-05-2012, 13:38

Andre, I partly bought the 44's from your recommendations in some earlier threads. My room isn't huge and it already has a stack of other gear in it so I'm hoping bass bloom dosen't shine through with these!

Good man i still love the '33's tho

RochaCullen

11-05-2012, 15:20

Good man i still love the '33's tho

I have a pair of the 22s and love 'em. I think they have a great sound. I am running them with a pair of audio note monoblocks at 8 watts a pop, and they make the 22s sing.

I've been tempted to go for a pair of 44s, but I think that would just be greedy. :)

tommy6206

11-05-2012, 16:29

Just get them up on some good stands.I love mine and find them much easier to drive than my 15xr's

jaym481

11-05-2012, 21:27

I had 44s, my last 3-ways before the Tannoy bug bit. Had 25s before the 44s, and found them boomy. The 44s were much better controlled.

Macca

12-05-2012, 10:25

quality 12 inch bass driver in a well sized sealed cab with sesame seed bun. What's not to like? The only problem I have with mine is that the power handling is limited compared to more modern speakers, my room is large and I have to set them up in free space which really doesn't suit - not hard to push that little mid range driver into distortion. Other wise, rock on!

Some Ditton 44s yesterday:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/001-2.jpg

DSJR

12-05-2012, 20:44

Remember, when these were designed, a Quad 303 at 45WPC was regarded as an insanely powerful amp. Drive the 44's too hard and it's the crossover that is probably saturating - when the Spendor BC3 was driven beyond 100W or so, bass uned to come out of the midrange unit, not a problem for the driver as it was a tweaked up version of the BC2 bass-mid driver, but the coils over-saturating.

Rare Bird

13-05-2012, 07:53

I think the most powerful amp i have is 20 watt.i could never ever use it at a fraction of that output!

Macca

13-05-2012, 07:58

Remember, when these were designed, a Quad 303 at 45WPC was regarded as an insanely powerful amp. Drive the 44's too hard and it's the crossover that is probably saturating -

probably saturating the crosover as well :lol: It's pretty easy to hear when the line has been crossed as the mid ceases to be sweet. I think it's the limitations of the driver. Although I must point out that is when playing loud, for regular listening levels then there is no problemo. The sealed cab means the bass starts and stops on a dime and you remember that even well-designed ported cabs just don't time that well in comparison. Not easy to find a pair of modern infinite baffle loudspeakers these days, especially not a 3-way. I reckon brand new, given they are made in England and with the real wood veneer that you would be looking at a retail price in today's money of £3K. :eek:

spendorman

13-05-2012, 08:19

probably saturating the crosover as well :lol: It's pretty easy to hear when the line has been crossed as the mid ceases to be sweet. I think it's the limitations of the driver. Although I must point out that is when playing loud, for regular listening levels then there is no problemo. The sealed cab means the bass starts and stops on a dime and you remember that even well-designed ported cabs just don't time that well in comparison. Not easy to find a pair of modern infinite baffle loudspeakers these days, especially not a 3-way. I reckon brand new, given they are made in England and with the real wood veneer that you would be looking at a retail price in today's money of £3K. :eek:

Not so sure that it's the limitation of the drive unit, it's a bass/ mid unit used only for mid, same as used in the two way Ditton 10's. Interesting speakers themselves. I have a pair of early 15 Ohm ones, and some later 8 Ohm ones.

In some of my home brew 3 way speakers I have certainly come across the problem of inductor saturation, especially with the shunt inductor for the midrange.

Macca

13-05-2012, 08:22

I would think inductor satuartion would make the sound dull but not distorted? Not that I would know. I thinking of hooking mine up again now...hmm

Wakefield Turntables

13-05-2012, 09:11

Its nice to see these excellent speakers are getting a little more attention. There are some excellent threads over on DIYAUDIO.COM (sorry if i've broken any rules re: cross posting threads:scratch:) about driver replacement and cross over design.

thinker10

18-05-2012, 09:19

I have a pair of Ditton 44 Series II

The one with an 8 inch and a 10 inch passive at the back

I never found the specification about them

I think they sound really good but I have nothing better in the yet

Thank You

walpurgis

18-05-2012, 10:05

Lucky man. The 44s certainly offer plenty of 'bang for your bucks'. They were a pleasant listen, I've had a couple of pairs over the years. The treble quality is up there with the best, as the HF2000 tweeter is one of the finest ever made (I've still got a pair tucked away for a project). I always thought the cabinets on the 44 are a bit small in volume for the size of bass driver though. Geoff.

Macca

18-05-2012, 12:16

Does anyone know if the cabs are divided inside or if they are just one large enclosure?

spendorman

18-05-2012, 12:19

Does anyone know if the cabs are divided inside or if they are just one large enclosure?

Certainly, the midrange unit is in it's own section, some 44's used a large cardboard tube, others had a box round it. It's many years since I looked!

Macca

18-05-2012, 12:21

Cheers Paul. I really need to find a home for mine, it is such a waste having them stood about.

Lionheart

28-05-2012, 19:18

Where does the Ditton 25's fit into the Celestion range ?, are they 2nd down from the 66's or are the 44's. I was given a pair of 25's a few years back and was taken aback at how good they were, I was using a pair of Klipsch at the time and the Celestions were to my ear a lot more civilised, so much so the Klipsch were dispatched within the month and I haven't looked back.

Reid Malenfant

28-05-2012, 19:34

I guess the 25s may well be just under the 66, but it depends on what you are guaging things on ;)

While the 66 has a more conventional driver layout like the 44, or if you like more modern as things are in line vertically, the 25 can be a bit messy as the drivers are all over the place. What makes matters worse is that the 25 uses two mids (HF1300) one above the other & a tweeter to the side :rolleyes:

So in effect if they aren't at exactly the correct height & angle then things will not be as integrated.

It makes the 66 & 44 easier to set up & more consistent in most situations.

Though the 25 has rather good & extended bass similar to the 66...

Pays your money & picks your poison :) But given a pair of 25 :eek:

Lionheart

28-05-2012, 19:38

Lionheart

28-05-2012, 19:49

Reid Malenfant

28-05-2012, 20:05

So in effect if they aren't at exactly the correct height & angle then things will not be as integrated.

I seem to remember that they should be on 18" stands, I had them on a pair of Heybrook stands at first but prefer them on spiked concrete slabs, I do toe them in slightly but I have a long narrow room and it seems to work well. If you don't mind what in your opinion is the best placement for the 25's?
You need to get the two midrange units at equal distances above & below your ears, so you don't get any comb filtering.

You then need to toe them in so that the centre of the two mids is at the same distance as the tweeter dome. If you do that then you'll get best driver time alignment.

They can work very well & sound fantastic, I first heard them when I was about 14, so over 30 years ago. I was kind of spoiled with my dads system though, so knew what good sound was like already :)

I think I'd prefer a pair of Ditton 25 to a pair of Leak Sandwich 600, though those were what I grew up listening to from being a sprat :eyebrows:

walpurgis

28-05-2012, 20:10

In my 1971 Hi-Fi Year Book, only three speakers are listed in the Celestion Ditton range, with the Ditton 25 as top model, Ditton 15 next down and Ditton 10 at the bottom. The 66 and 44 came later, with the 66 taking top honours and the 44 below the 25 according to a mid-seventies Celestion Brochure I have. Geoff.

Lionheart

28-05-2012, 20:16

You need to get the two midrange units at equal distances above & below your ears, so you don't get any comb filtering.

You then need to toe them in so that the centre of the two mids is at the same distance as the tweeter dome. If you do that then you'll get best driver time alignment.

They can work very well & sound fantastic, I first heard them when I was about 14, so over 30 years ago. I was kind of spoiled with my dads system though, so knew what good sound was like already :)

I think I'd prefer a pair of Ditton 25 to a pair of Leak Sandwich 600, though those were what I grew up listening to from being a sprat :eyebrows:

Cheers Mark, well that's got tomorrows audio fiddling sorted out, that info is priceless as there is hardly anything on the 25's (especially placement). I have thought about climbing the speaker ladder lately, any ideas on an upgrade to the 25's (at sensible price).

RochaCullen

29-05-2012, 09:33

Hi Geoff,

I have the 1977 hifi yearbook and you are right in order of price it goes 66, 25 and then 44.

Nathan

In my 1971 Hi-Fi Year Book, only three speakers are listed in the Celestion Ditton range, with the Ditton 25 as top model, Ditton 15 next down and Ditton 10 at the bottom. The 66 and 44 came later, with the 66 taking top honours and the 44 below the 25 according to a mid-seventies Celestion Brochure I have. Geoff.

thebeathunters

03-07-2012, 21:44

had a pair for a few months next to rogers ls7 and kef cantatas. rogers sounded better to my ears from highs to bottom bass. they seem to have dedicated die-hard fans though i don't hear why. good bargain speaker whatsover:)

RochaCullen

04-07-2012, 11:26

Cheers Paul. I really need to find a home for mine, it is such a waste having them stood about.

Hey Martin,

Whenever you decide to take the plunge and flog them on, let me know.

Regards,

Nathan

DSJR

04-07-2012, 14:03

Not sure you can do much to Ditton 25's as the two tweeters paralleled up can affect dispersion if used too close-up.

LS7's are a more modern and different kind of sound altogether. The mid should be more natural, the treble if still on form will sparkle much more but you won't have that relaxed Big Cone bass sound that some like and others... don't :)

Wakefield Turntables

04-07-2012, 18:12

I started this thread and I still havent got round to modding my 44's, I really do need to get the 1210 pcb fixed with those internal regs. :doh:

AlfaGTV

29-07-2012, 19:12

It's your fault! (that i just bought myself a pair of Ditton 44'sin great nick) :roll eyes:

And they do sound very decent, but i'll have a look at the x-overs later as they seem a little nasal in the midrange, beautiful treble and bass though!

Mine seem to be early ones? A black baffle and coated membranes for mid and bass. The foam under the cloth on the covers had rotted away but ill sort that out also. Have already stripped them from the frame.

Regards
/Mike

PS got my pair for about 30 quid, they seem worth it! :lol:

Wakefield Turntables

29-07-2012, 21:22

My fault??? :lol: If so, sorry mate!

I really really must get these 44's modded. I'm in the process of getting my 301 and 1210 finished BUT i'm off to Greece for a week so its probably going to be sometime in August when I get these started. :D

walpurgis

29-07-2012, 23:32

Mike,

as far as I'm aware all the Ditton 44s had a Plastiflex like coating on the bass and mid cones, certainly the couple of pairs I had years ago did. The subsequent 442 model had different drivers though.

The nasality in the mid that you are hearing may be the cavity behind the mid driver resonating. I can't remember how big this was, but if its small or under-damped that could be the problem. Or, if the midrange introductory crossover curve is shallow (6db/oct), it could be the cone's natural resonance intruding. A steeper crossover could sort that, but you'd also have to re-jig the bass roll-off.

Personally, I found the bass a bit boxy myself and not desperately extended although not lacking in impact. (The best sealed box bass I've heard with a 12" driver came from the Acoustic Research AR3 from the seventies.)

Its no wonder that you like the treble quality, as that HF2000 tweeter is one of the smoothest and sweetest moving coil tweeters ever made. Makes a great super-tweeter too (so much better than the horrible old ITT/STC/Coles 3001 jobbie). It is a super-tweeter really, as it works best above around 6kHz.

£30 was a bargain by the way, the HF2000s alone are worth around £100 a pair these days.

Geoff.

AlfaGTV

30-07-2012, 06:09

Thanks for the input guys! After a little more trawling the net i found another thread here on AoS regarding Macca's beautiful 44's. And when looking at those pics now i see that they are also coated, however the bass cones seem to be made from a brighter pulp than on mine.

Regarding the nasality, i'll have a look at the cabinets to make they are 100% air tight. If those are OK, i'll consider changing x-over caps for some decent polyprop's.

Regards
/Mike

walpurgis

30-07-2012, 20:26

Unless the capacitors are knackered or of the wrong value, upgrading will not change any perceived 'nasality'. I'd suggest the first thing you do is experiment with the mid rear chamber damping, pack it with foam or even old cotton towelling which also works well on mid frequencies. Loose, open materials like BAF or wool fibre less so.

It could just be that the coating on the cone has hardened over the years, that would add a twang to the sound. You could apply another coat, but the results would be unpredictable.

AlfaGTV

30-07-2012, 20:39

I did some basic cleaning, and had a look at the crossovers tonite. They were equipped with two electrolytes per filter, and they showed no sign of leakage or anything. Besides, they looked to be used in parallel, as opposed to the caps in line with the audio path, which were good solid polyprops. What shocked me though was the gauge of the internal cabling!!! :stalks: They were the tinyest cables i've ever laid my eyes on in audio equipment!!!

I didnt have any intention of ripping them apart right now anyways, so just assembled them again and noticed the very loose screws on the speakers (which by the way were proper nuts, the kind thats fixed into wood, don't know the name in english though)
After tightening the whole shebang i connected them to my 50W Class A amp and fed them some real music. :eek: Away went the nasal sound! And i thought they were tight and clean before! ;)

Yikes, these sound really good! Thanks for mentioning these very underrated speakers!

These are definently keepers!
Regards Mike

DSJR

30-07-2012, 21:49

I recently re-wired my Spendors with 50 strand maplin instrument cables. Not a huge difference but I imagined one :)

Please bear in mind the metres of thin copper wire in the speaker coils as well as any series-inductors there. Sort of makes a mockery of the thin internal wires used back then. Just convince yourself the old wires are corroded and need replacing - that'll sort it :lol: