Another one for the collection (@Andre mostly)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Since my fascination with Philips carts seems to pass most people by this is mostly at Andre ...

I've just bagged a Philips 422 (mki) 4 channel shibata cart ... Boxed, but condition basically unknown although I'm told the stylus looks intact!

I am a very happy monkey!

So these shibata jobs are better then elliptical stylus are they (in theory)
There's no issue with using a 4 channel cart on a stereo set up is there?

Paid more than in normally comfortable when it comes to adding to my vintage cart collection - £50 ... Aparently it was £47 in 1970, which in today's money is about £600 aparently so I'm fairly happy (at least that's what I'm telling my self :))

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I shant be happy until I have as many as this guy ;)
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=6545.0;prev_next=prev#new

[Barry]

Since my fascination with Philips carts seems to pass most people by this is mostly at Andre ...

I've just bagged a Philips 422 (mki) 4 channel shibata cart ... Boxed, but condition basically unknown although I'm told the stylus looks intact!

I am a very happy monkey!

So these shibata jobs are better then elliptical stylus are they (in theory)
There's no issue with using a 4 channel cart on a stereo set up is there?

Paid more than in normally comfortable when it comes to adding to my vintage cart collection - £50 ... Apparently it was £47 in 1970, which in today's money is about £600 apparently so I'm fairly happy (at least that's what I'm telling my self :))

Nice one Hamish!

I'm not familiar with all of the Philips' cartridge range, but the 412 is

a very good cartridge
a bit of a 'sleeper'


No, there will be no problem using a 'quadrophonic' cartridge on a stereo set-up. Quadrophonic cartridges were designed to have a response extending to 50kHz and were 'backwards compatable', so as to play 2-channel (stereo) records.

Enjoy! :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

This is a 422 Barry ... I already have a 422 mkii's with three stylus and a 422 mkiii ... And a 401 ... For that matter!

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/93fdee6f.jpg

I've been after a 422 (on Andre's recommendation) for ages!!

Good news on the backwards compatibility ... Do what's the thinking behind such an extended frequent response?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

... Do you know if pinnacle stylus are any good...
I've not tried them, but I bought a bunch really cheaply as back up ... Don't really need em now, but interested in whether or not they might be any good...

[Barry]

Good news on the backwards compatibility ... So what's the thinking behind such an extended frequency response?

If I remember corectly, there were three (mutually incompatable (!)) quadrophonic systems. One of them, called CD-4, placed the two rear channels on a supersonic carrier; that is the rear information was encoded, or cut, into the vinyl (then, vinyl was all that was available) modulating a 30kHz carrier.

Any quadrophonic cartridge worth its salt had to be able to track frequencies up to 50kHz. The supersonic carrier was then removed by the CD-4 decoder.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I see ...
Is this extended frequency response an advantage in a stereo system? (subjectively or objectively)

[hifi_dave]

I've got a couple of cartridges designed for 'quadraphonic' playback, a JVC X1 and one other I don't recall just now. Both very very good for stereo playback but never really worked for the short lived quadraphonics as the very high frequencies were wiped out with just one play..:doh:

[Barry]

I've got a couple of cartridges designed for 'quadraphonic' playback, a JVC X1 and one other I don't recall just now. Both very very good for stereo playback but never really worked for the short lived quadraphonics as the very high frequencies were wiped out with just one play..:doh:

Ah! - I remember the JVC X-1. Only ever used it to play conventional stereo records, and despite sounding a bit like a rocket fuel, was actually a rather good cartridge.

Would be interesting to hear one now and to be able to put it up against a contemporary, such as the Decca Mk. V or IV.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

So I might be on to a winner then...? :)

[SteveW]

Hey Hamish - funny chaps, coincidences. You know we nearly played Dark side of the moon the other day? Well.. Was reading this and mentioning quadrophonic rang a vague bell. Sure enough, I have the Uk quad mix of DSOTM.. complete with posters. Its yours if you want it ... don't know what else you'd need to make the quad thing work though?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

There are three possible paths here
1. Refuse the kind offer and carry on as if nothing happened
2. Explore the possibility of actually getting some sort of 4 channel hifi, spend loads of money and drive my self barmy ...
3. Ask to borrow it to see if it sounds any better then either of the versions I currently own...

Can I go with 3? ;)

Of course this would entail me actualy listening to dark side of the moon ... Something I'm not sure I can currently do ...

How's things your end anyway? How you getting on with the Avalon and 2m red?
Any news on the other possible hifi progressions?

Im still waiting for you to start a thread extolling the virtues of active hifi, more specifically an Adam/linn combo you might have recently encountered somewhere in the south west midlands ;)

[WOStantonCS100]

Since my fascination with Philips carts seems to pass most people by this is mostly at Andre ...

Very happy for you!

As I seem to have developed a fetish for Stanton carts (equally passed on by many) in the last few years, I think I know where you're coming from. Post a pic when you get it. Also, if you would, consider posting the collection here :) after the new addition arrives:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12137

[SteveW]

Ha, pure genius. That's the best Catch 22 I've heard of since I read Catch 22!! You could build a system to listen to an album you can't listen to. Superb.

I was more thinking that here is an album that is by design a quadro do dah and now you have a cartridge designed to play it. Be very interesting to see if it matters. Not really sure why I got it in the first place . Probably thought I was getting a rare bargain. I wasn't. I'll get it to you.

On the other stuff ... Ok I will start another thread. I think it's a really interesting area, but I suspect that for most the investment in speakers and amps is too great to be starting over... plus some other issues.

On the Avalon, I just haven't had a minute lately to set it up. We've had bathrooms ripped out and new ones put in, so now the clean up operations begins. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, and I'll let you know. It also seems to me that the Avalon would benefit from being placed on my Mana ref table, which is stored in the attic at the moment.

All good fun
Cheers.. Steve



There are three possible paths here
1. Refuse the kind offer and carry on as if nothing happened
2. Explore the possibility of actually getting some sort of 4 channel hifi, spend loads of money and drive my self barmy ...
3. Ask to borrow it to see if it sounds any better then either of the versions I currently own...

Can I go with 3? ;)

Of course this would entail me actualy listening to dark side of the moon ... Something I'm not sure I can currently do ...

How's things your end anyway? How you getting on with the Avalon and 2m red?
Any news on the other possible hifi progressions?

Im still waiting for you to start a thread extolling the virtues of active hifi, more specifically an Adam/linn combo you might have recently encountered somewhere in the south west midlands ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Ha, pure genius. That's the best Catch 22 I've heard of since I read Catch 22!! You could build a system to listen to an album you can't listen to. Superb.

I was more thinking that here is an album that is by design a quadro do dah and now you have a cartridge designed to play it. Be very interesting to see if it matters. Not really sure why I got it in the first place . Probably thought I was getting a rare bargain. I wasn't. I'll get it to you.

Hehe, yeah, since you put it like that ... I would be really barmy
Sounds like it wouldn't work anyway from what Dave said
Does it sound any different ... I dont really follow Barry's description .. Not that it's poorly described, I just don't know what it means ... I have heard the sacd with the info in the rear channels, it's quite brilliant (foot steps running around the room etc) ... But it doesn't make sense to me how that would work on two channel without a cd layer ... If you follow my meaning ...


On the other stuff ... Ok I will start another thread. I think it's a really interesting area, but I suspect that for most the investment in speakers and amps is too great to be starting over... plus some other issues.

I'd be very interested to hear your ongoing thoughts on it all ...
Re. My gear, I know what you think so you don't really need to start a thread ... ;)


On the Avalon, I just haven't had a minute lately to set it up. We've had bathrooms ripped out and new ones put in, so now the clean up operations begins. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, and I'll let you know. It also seems to me that the Avalon would benefit from being placed on my Mana ref table, which is stored in the attic at the moment.

All good fun
Cheers.. Steve

Hannah is on about our bathroom now ... After ripping up a perfectly serviceable vinyl floor she now wants tiles on the rickety old floor boards ... I might as well have just taken a load of cash out the bank and chucked it in the loo :/

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Very happy for you!

As I seem to have developed a fetish for Stanton carts (equally passed on by many) in the last few years, I think I know where you're coming from. Post a pic when you get it. Also, if you would, consider posting the collection here :) after the new addition arrives:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12137

Thank you!
I will, I've not seen that thread before ...
I've got a whole load of others too ... £50 is the maximum spend for me ... Just makes it a bit mre fun and a little less serious!

I think I read one of your Stanton threads before I bought the first Philips ... I nearly bought one then but got distracted!

[Jonboy]

Funny you started this thread on 4 channel as i bought this old Pioneer Quadraphonic amp yesterday afternoon mainly because it was cheap. its huge and very heavy,
anyone know anything about them i have found a bit of info including a youtube clip

JckZe_Nks1I

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/pioneer-1.jpg

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Aaaaaaaa I don't care about anything else anymore ... I just want an amp with that little screen on the left of it!!

[Audioman]

Had a stereo Pioneer receiver from the same range. Lovely build quality but a NAD3020 left it standing for SQ. Worthwhile if working and you have some old quad LP's. I remember them deming a top quadrophonic system at the Earls Court hi-fi show (1974 ?). Played quad DSOTM with a top Pioneer TT. I do wonder why you don't see their better TT's from this era only PL12Ds.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I like the Sansui's:

http://www.classicaudio.com/value/san/QA7000.jpg


For a display you need a Sansui Reverb amp Hamish!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4raXRJEltog/Twy9DWaEpkI/AAAAAAADt2w/Vlv9bl4QN8w/s1600/13reverb1.JPG

Cheesy light show and maximum funky sound

[Jonboy]

Aaaaaaaa I don't care about anything else anymore ... I just want an amp with that little screen on the left of it!!


Thats what i thought when i saw it :D

[Rare Bird]

Hamish:
If you see any late versions of the Philips 'GP412', 'GP420' & 'GP422' let me know buddy, They are nice high compliant carts that should sound good with my arm..

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Will do matey!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Oooo

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/38236451.jpg

Looks like its unused!

[PaulStewart]

I've got a couple of cartridges designed for 'quadraphonic' playback, a JVC X1 and one other I don't recall just now. Both very very good for stereo playback but never really worked for the short lived quadraphonics as the very high frequencies were wiped out with just one play..:doh:

I hate to disagree Dave, but I was tech liason at JVC when we brought out both the X-1 and the staggeringly good MC-1 moving coil. Both had Shibata styli and both were intended for 2 channel only. The tracing ability of the Shibata, was so much better and so of course was the information retrival that we used them in the stereo products. Also, I have original CD-4 discs that are over 35 years old that have been played hunreds of times and the carrier wave is still there and working well. On my edit suite, which is set up for 5.1 I have a JVC CD-4 55 demodulator and in conjuction with a JVC MD4 20X cartridge I have transcribed old quadraphonic discs to SoundTrack pro, perfectly.

In fact, I have never heard a CD-4 pressing that has lost it's carrier wave. However they do have to be kept clean. This was the reason that JVC invented the low noise Super-Vinyl, hat we all enjoy in audiophile pressings today.

BTW to get back to the original topic, for CD-4 other than our own we rated the Phillips/Marantz carts and other products the most.

Cheers

Paul

[Spectral Morn]

Funny you started this thread on 4 channel as i bought this old Pioneer Quadraphonic amp yesterday afternoon mainly because it was cheap. its huge and very heavy,
anyone know anything about them i have found a bit of info including a youtube clip

JckZe_Nks1I

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/pioneer-1.jpg


Beautiful amp. I love Pioneer from this period. I have a 9100 Tuner which is the visual match for that amplifier.

http://www.audioscope.net/images/pioneertx9100-1.jpg

[Rare Bird]

I used to have a JVC 'MC2E' for years in a box, the cantilever seemed to have nothing to hold it up. I was just wondering what it was like anyone? I did use a cheap JVC 'Z1' MM cart for a stand in, that sounded suprisingly good..

[PaulStewart]

I used to have a JVC 'MC2E' for years in a box, the cantilever seemed to have nothing to hold it up. I was just wondering what it was like anyone? I did use a cheap JVC 'Z1' MM cart for a stand in, that sounded suprisingly good..

The MC2E was the elliptical stylus version on the MC1. These and later JVC MC cartridges had a "Direct Coupled" stylus i.e. the coil was printed on a tiny wafer, not wound on a bobbin. This was then mounted as ckose as possible (directly above) the stylus. The advantage of this was it was light and it more or less eliminated cantilever smear distortion.

The thing sounded sublime even when used through JVC's pretty ropey MC inputs. I used to cheat and use MM and an SUT or a head amp the chief engineer and I made for public demos. Later, with the AX series of Super A class amps they also sorted the MC input. The main thing about the JVC MCs was very full frequency respose and exteremly lucud midband, great for brass and strings. They would give many modern carts a run for their money:)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I've posted this else where but it might as well go here too

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/13baf768.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

The thing sounded sublime even when used through JVC's pretty ropey MC inputs. I used to cheat and use MM and an SUT or a head amp the chief engineer and I made for public demos. Later, with the AX series of Super A class amps they also sorted the MC input. The main thing about the JVC MCs was very full frequency respose and exteremly lucud midband, great for brass and strings. They would give many modern carts a run for their money:)
I concur... The best cartridge I ever owned. One day I went to use it again after setting up a new record deck & found out one of the coils was open circuit :doh:

Wish i still had it working :rolleyes: