Mad inventor or genius?

[BTH K10A]

http://www.altmann.haan.de/

[Covenant]

Mad when it comes to pricing. 950 euros for a basic amp on a bit of wood. Oh good the wood is lacquered.

[Reid Malenfant]

:lol: He's having a giggle. An op-amp based phono stage for only Euro 1300+ (http://www.mother-of-tone.com/phonostage.htm)

:mental:

[Beechwoods]

I'm sure he has his acolytes though. I wonder if they paid full price?

[BTH K10A]

Some things are a bit cheaper

http://www.altmann.haan.de/tonearm/default.htm

:lol:

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Guys,

I have tested both the Altmann DAC and the BYOB power amp many times in my system when upgrading the power supplies for customers. Both of these products are very good musical performers, which is what it is all about as far as I am concerned. There is an art to designing musically satisfying equipment. His presentation may be a little Avant-Garde but his prices are not unrealistic for this level of performance. I can understand that his prices may be outside the range you are willing to pay, but what price do you put on your musical enjoyment. There is plenty of equipment around that is not musically satisfying, at all price levels, but I would certainly not put up with a musically sterile performance just to keep the cost down.

I have no affiliation with Charles Altmann. In fact he is probably not too amused with me for upgrading the power supplies on his equipment. I would not do this if his products were not worth the effort in the first place.

Regards
Paul

[Reid Malenfant]

I have no affiliation with Charles Altmann. In fact he is probably not too amused with me for upgrading the power supplies on his equipment. I would not do this if his products were not worth the effort in the first place.

Regards
Paul
Interesting, I still think his op-amp based phono stage is kind of expensive though. Perhaps it's just that there is only a picture of a populated PCB & no casework or PSUs that forces me to think it takes the biscuit :)

If it was supplied in a decent case with PSUs then it's obviously not as bad value, though there was nothing on the web page to suggest that ;)

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Mark,

The presentation of his product does foster the perception of poor value for money when you look at the materials used. There is no getting away from this and the market is used to cased product, so there is a tendency to reject Altmann’s products as too lateral in their concept.

I have not tried his phono stage so cannot comment on it’s value, but I can say that the DAC is the first digital audio product I have allowed to live in my system. I have tried many DAC products prior to this but none gave me any satisfaction, in fact I found many to be downright annoying and fatiguing. Within the limits of current digital audio I can live with the Altmann DAC. I can also live with the Metrum Quad DAC as this too gives a musical presentation, and it is more conventionally packaged, as well as being less expensive.

Regards,
Paul

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Mark,

I have not tried his phono stage so cannot comment on it’s value, but I can say that the DAC is the first digital audio product I have allowed to live in my system.

Regards,
Paul
Even more interesting :)

Cheers for enlightening me, that I must say has taken me rather by surprise :exactly:

Food for thought...

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Mark,

It is as well to remember that my Altmann DAC is no longer standard issue as I have replaced the on board three terminal regulators for the digital interface chip and the DAC chip with high speed shunt regulators (error amp 5,000 volts per microsecond) and also given the clocks a separate high speed shunt regulator. Also the master 12v supply is currently fed from an SR7EHD-12.

Regards
Paul

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Mark,

It is as well to remember that my Altmann DAC is no longer standard issue as I have replaced the on board three terminal regulators for the digital interface chip and the DAC chip with high speed shunt regulators (error amp 5,000 volts per microsecond) and also given the clocks a separate high speed shunt regulator. Also the master 12v supply is currently fed from an SR7EHD-12.

Regards
Paul
Ah, but the thing is you already saw or should I say heard the potential of the DAC before you bothered modifying it, no-one chucks pearls at swine after all :eyebrows:

It may be a different animal now, but the underlying trend must have been promising to begin with I'm assuming.

But then as you happen to make these things I guess there is no harm in a quick experiment.

:nono: You must have heard it had potential....

[Paul Hynes]

That is a correct assumption Mark. The musical presentation and involvement was promising and the high frequencies did not drill a hole in my head. I have been modifying equipment since the 1980’s so I knew what to expect from a power supply re-work and was not disappointed. It bothers me not that the DAC is screwed to a piece of Spruce wood rather than in a metal case. Most of my prototype designs are built this way so the family is used to items like this residing in the audio racks.

The Altmann DAC relies on relatively old technology but this is not necessarily a bad thing. I think his digital design is well thought out. Modern technology does not always deliver the goods.

I cannot get along with poor musical timing, sterile presentation or aggressive, edgy, high frequencies that destroy the timbre of instrumental and vocal high frequencies. Within the limits of current digital audio performance, the Altmann DAC is a good unit for music reproduction. I still prefer my analogue system but can now listen to digital sources without screaming and heading for the kill switch. Obviously, I have not tried every DAC product around, but this is one of the best of those I have tried for my personal requirements. I am sure there are other good and probably better digital products around, and more will come as time goes by. There are plenty of engineers out there working to improve the performance of digital audio.

Regards,
Paul

[f1eng]

The DIY turntable uses clever engineering solutions, based on my experience, to create a very inexpensive to make unit in which some of the most important engineering aspects are inventively addressed without unnecessarily throwing cash at it. The idea of the bearing is super without being dear, and the arm isn't pretty but covers the crucial engineering well. Not isolated from acoustic/mechanical pickup but most prefer the additional reverb this will give (including me)
Bravo I say, I'm going to check out some of his other stuff!

[Complin]

So Paul would you say the Altmann is preferable over the Metrum?

I understand Metrum are going to release a further evolution of their design with the HEX model, rumored to be Euro 2000. I hope its has decent power supplies for that money :)




The Altmann DAC relies on relatively old technology but this is not necessarily a bad thing. I think his digital design is well thought out. Modern technology does not always deliver the goods.


Regards,
Paul

[Paul Hynes]

Hello Malcolm,

At this point I am ambivalent between the two. Both are fine designs and both get the fundamentals of music reproduction right. I can happily listen to music with either in the system.

There are differences in presentation. Remember that both these items are not stock and have had an extensive power supply re-work. The Metrum has now had plenty of burn-in time. The Metrum presents the soundstage a little more forward than the Altmann but the overall depth of the soundstage is similar. Both have exceptional musical timing and dynamic presentation and instrumental timbre is well portrayed. The music just flows in a natural manner with both DACs. There are some tonal differences between the two, but neither sound wrong. On some music the Metrum appears to deliver more body than the Altmann and on some music less body. This could be related to the slightly different tonality and/or the more forward presentation of the Metrum. The Metrum is a tad dryer in the upper mid and higher frequencies.

Regards
Paul

[Complin]

Thanks Paul,
Your comments are very interesting.
One of the most natural and smoothest DAC's i've heard is the Stax X1T which uses two 12AX7 tubes, and 20-bit 8-times over sampling. It majored on power supply two extremely oversized transformers, twenty two power supplies, uses 3 three power cords, one for the digital section, one for the left channel D/A and analogue section, and one the right channel D/A and analogue section! Its over 20 years old now and as rare as rocking horse droppings!

I currently use a North Star Design 192 up-sampling DAC with i2S input, its generally well regarded in Europe, but not seen much in the UK but am curious if this can be improved upon.
Much has been made of the Philips TDA154X DACS, but again this must too be governed on how they are implemented. Have you any experience with this Philips 16 bit chip, understand it can be used either as NOS or 8x oversampling?


Hello Malcolm,

At this point I am ambivalent between the two. Both are fine designs and both get the fundamentals of music reproduction right. I can happily listen to music with either in the system.

Regards
Paul

[Paul Hynes]

Hello Malcolm,

I have not listened to music using either the Stax X1T or the Northstar 192 so I cannot comment about where they stand in performance comparisons.

Implementation is a large factor in any design. I do find it interesting that many manufacturers automatically limit the performance of their designs by continuing to use industry standard three terminal regulators in their power supplies. This happens even in the high end. This is even more surprising as they spend large amounts of money in other areas of the design. The logic escapes me.

Regards
Paul