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[Maxwell]

Hello...not sure if I am doing things correctly, but....my system consists MF M6i, Bryston BCD-1, ATC SCM 40s and LP12. The system is not dynamic enough for top end classical. Thinking of going back to Naim but first need to know if there is a market for the M6i for around £1300 and BCD-1 for £1400?(Both 2yrs old) :) Maybe sell the ATCs as well for £1400 (1yr old)

Any takers? Will pay safe postage.

[snapper]

Hi Maxwell

Before you go any further, could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, as you were asked to do in the registration email you received - ta!

:cool:

[wiicrackpot]

He is in the welcome area David, just killing 2 birds with the same stone. :)

wii.

[Maxwell]

I apologise if I missed out on a step...never joined a forum before...my comments vis a vis system are in the Welcome page...yes? Please be specific about what I need to correct.

Thanks for your patience

Maxwell

[Spectral Morn]

Welcome to AOS Maxwell.

I hope you enjoy yourself here.

[Maxwell]

Thank you for the kind response. How do I make sure my thread is read by others outside the Welcome Area?

[DSJR]

I've got it...

The main compromise with practically all ATC passive models is their frightening inefficiency. This isn't so much to do with not going very loud, but more to do with needing that extra "push" to get the drivers going through the crossover. being three way makes it worse if anything, but the main driver should be easier to integrate with the infamous dome upper-mid than with the bigger models - in passive form....

At the very least, if you sell everything else, you could look out for a couple of Quad 606's (or 707's or 909's) 'cos they're cheap and bi-amp the ATC's. A mate does this with SCM35's and found a very beneficial improvement in this instance, liking the sonics very much indeed. The 606 circuit is easy to fettle and apart from the supply caps, which went up a size and the change to toriodal transformers in the 606mk2 onwards (the one with chamfered top), the amps didn't change overmuch and sound surprisingly capable IMO..

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do. ATC 50SLA actives come up at around £3000 to £4000 from time to time and being active, in this instance, will ALWAYS be better than any ATC three way passive model (the mid dome is very narrow bandwidth and NEEDS the phasing and level adjustments to even begin to correctly integrate with the bass driver)..

If you sell the lot, it's over to you really, but do some serious long term listening first before jumping from your current ship...

[Maxwell]

Dave, thanks for the very useful response. You hit the nail. For several months I have been challenging the dynamics of the system. I was fortunate enough to have a local expert look at the basic set-up i.e. room dynamics, positioning and separation of equipment, plug ins, mains cleaning and lessening vibration. All good stuff,very expensive and in the end didn't solve the problem. I also tried speaker and amp changes.

Your suggestion has been uppermost in my mind i.e. work with what I've got. I will look seriously at your alternatives. Any feelings about Naim and ATC speakers?

[Reid Malenfant]

How do I make sure my thread is read by others outside the Welcome Area?
Copy & paste it in another section of the forum ;)

Welcome by the way, not sure about the Bryston amp you have there, but I concur with Dave, I'd be wanting about 300W RMS per channel or more up the backs of the SCM40s to bring them to life :D

While that may appear to be a lot, with the efficiency of the smaller bass/mid in the SCM40 it'd be about the same as 100W RMS with a more standard speaker.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Max,Well come to the Art of Sound!

Cheers

[DSJR]

Any feelings about Naim and ATC speakers?

Now, what was it I just told you about ATC's needing POWER!!!! :rotfl:

The NAP500 has no more real power than a Quad 606 (120WPC into 8 ohms) but of course it'll sound better because it costs many thousands of your hard earned (or borrowed) pounds... ATC's don't need that kind of belief system to work at their best. Naims aren't very powerful and if not harsh in their later models, still grainy and "grey" in the treble, even if the bass is punchy into more efficient speakers.

ATC's passive models don't need artificially derived pr@t in the driving amp, since they are quite able to reproduce any in the source material. Any possible shortcomings in low level delicacy should be got round once the amp is sorted. ATC's own have always been well thought of, irrespective of the age and some of the bigger AVI amps were often used to great effect. Some good used Pro mega-amps may be suitable too, since any slight roughness should be absorbed in the crossovers and drivers, rather than magnified, as more efficient speakers can do..

I'm letting my feelings show too much - apologies - but unlike Tannoys, the charms of which definitely favour valves, ATC's need a brutish amp to come alive. Back in my day, now vintage amps like the Rotel Michi (maybe one of their multi-channel amps might work in bi-amped mode? Sumo (ATC distributed these I think for a while) and other big hearted stalwarts should be considered. Big brystons would be great, but the prices charged these days kind of defeats their original appeal - good sound and mega power for not much dosh -

I don't know if this is where you want to go with your music, but it's one option possibly.

[DSJR]

P.S. Seriously though, if you like the ATC sound, GO ACTIVE and get some 50ASL's at the very least - you'll LOVE THEM.....

OR....................

Flog the amp and 40's, choose carefully some big vintage Tannoys for a couple of grand, and look at modern valve amps.

[Reid Malenfant]

A big Chord power amp or something like a Krell FPB300 should do the trick, or like Dave mentions - Brystons :)

[Maxwell]

Mark, certainly the SCMs are the challenge to get the best out of them. I suspect the dynamics of the system as a whole are out of kilter for my needs in an average room and lower listening levels. Have a good mind to get rid of all and start again.

How do I best advertise for sale in this forum (copy and paste as you suggest) vis a vis my first posted message listing system and prices?

Thanks for feedback.

[Maxwell]

Exactly where I am headed....need to offload the SCM 40s, M6i and maybe the Bryston per my original thread posting...any ideas?

Also, the Tannoys and Union Research might be workable?

Thanks for the suggestion. I am going crazy trying to "service" the ATCs.

[Maxwell]

I have tried the ATC actives some time ago before the SCM40s and loved them. Budget was a limitation at that time. Maybe need to take another look.

[Maxwell]

I get the message about the SCM 40s needing power. I am thinking about valves again....had a good experience while in the U.S. with a Jadis and B&W 805 combination.
I have never tried Tannoy speakers maybe now is the time.

Thanks all for the input.

[Reid Malenfant]

If you decide to sell them then advertise them in the section marked "private exhibitions", it's free obviously :)

The ATC actives have tri amps, if I remember right there is 450W RMS total power between the drivers in the three way systems ;) Now as each driver is fed off of it's own amplifier instead of a single amplifier driving all the drivers through a passive crossover, the tri amps are equivalent to a much higher power single amplifier.

I'd suggest that you'd need over 1KW RMS of single channel amplification to get the equivalent volume & drive that you would with the active setup.

Each driver gets it's own amp so even if one amp is close to clipping the other channels still have all the power they need, where as a single amp with passive crossover has to cope with every frequency range. As a consequence it needs to swing a much higher voltage to get to the same volume level as the tri amped system.