New cart

[Robin]

Hello there
Time for a new cart, my DL160 has seen better days. I'm temped to try a DL103 or Dynavector 10x5...I'd like to get something that's significantly better than the DL160 if I can for max 3-400 pounds.
TT and arm are Thorens TD150 and SME 3009R. Im using the fluid damper at the moment due to having a suspended wooded floor. Music, rock, singer-songwriter, bit of jazz...
Any suggestions from you knowledgable chaps?

[AlfaGTV]

Tjena! ;)

I think you're in for a treat if you'd try the DL-103 as it relly is one of the best sounding PU's i've heard when considering price. And if it does anything right, it is rocking and rollin' :eek:
The Dyna's i've heard have always sounded good, but none have persuaded me to take one home.
Consider also the Benz Micro MC Gold which i really like.
Both the Benz and definently the Denon clears your budget with margin.

Br Mike

[DSJR]

High output? - Ortofon 2m Black. High output and beefy balance? - Dynavector 10XV (used to sell for the same money as DL110 and not really very much better IMO) or DV20 II (although I don't have good reports on its sonics outside of a narrow range of matching gear)

SUMIKO BPS or BLACKBIRD???

Low output MC's - way out of date, but Ortofon, Shelter, Benz and possibly Lyra (at this price?). If the arm is massive and you can play with matching, Denon 103R or SA?

[vouk]

Don't know if they are indeed "significantly" better than the Denon but IMO the Ortofon Rondo Red, the Sumiko BPS, the Goldring Elite, the Grado Statement platinum and the Dynavector should be on the list.

I've lately seen a few new Ortofon Kontrapunkt A's drop in your price range - while something like this might be very appealing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shelter-301-MC-cartridge-Japan-made-/280752090070?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415e20ebd6

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZYX-RS-30-02H-0-48mV-High-Output-MC-Cartridge-JapanMade-/270937781765?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item3f15267605

[NRG]

The 103 wont suit your arm, avoid it.

[DSJR]

Ummm, 3009R has a stainless steel arm tube I think. use a Sumiko or similar headshell and the 103 might just work... The TD150 may not like a cartridge tracking over 2g though, due to dynamic wow issues.

[Robin]

Yes, the 3009R is quite a bit heavier than the Improved, 12.5 grams effective mass I think and I have a Sumiko headshell on already.
You think the Ortofon Black will be a good match? Been thinking about that one too...

[Rare Bird]

The last cartridge i used was the Denon 'DL110' i thought it was a loverly sounding cart..

[Marco]

Ummm, 3009R has a stainless steel arm tube I think. use a Sumiko or similar headshell and the 103 might just work...

Trust me, it does! ;)

The most important aspect of matching an arm to a DL-103 is getting the mass right at the headshell - think very high-mass here. The Denon doesn't mind (and indeed rather likes) a 'lossy' style of arm at the end of that, which is why 103s can often sound stunning, when fitted, on the likes of Hadcocks.

Indeed, one only has to examine Denon's own vintage tonearms, designed to match the 103, to see ample evidence of those principles put into practice!

The tonal characteristics of a 3009 also suit the DL-103, so with the right headshell in use, real synergy can be achieved. The only thing about the Sumiko, if you're going to use it with a 103, is that its weight of 12g isn't really heavy enough to optimise the Denon. Here, think in the region of 16.5g of headshell mass.

Therefore, an extra spacer would be needed, or a more appropriate headshell, such as this, used instead: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Ortofon-LH-9000-Headshell/product_5268

Not cheap, but if you want to do the job right... Either that or add 4.5g to the Sumiko, with a spacer. That done, and used in conjunction with a high-quality (preferably) MM valve phono stage and MC step-up transformer, the 103 will blow away anything else at the price - and indeed some way beyond (unless you're a detail freak).

Marco.

[NRG]

Then I must have been doing something wrong because I've tried the SeriesII, S2 Improved and the 'R' but never felt the 103 was a match even with added mass to the headshell or headshell replacement. The arm on my PL-71 cuts it though: effective mass is 18g or thereabouts and with the Sumiko headshell works even better. :scratch:

[Marco]

Hi Neal,

Dunno what went wrong, as I wasn't there to hear it. However, in terms of effective mass, remember that a 3009, fitted with, say, the Ortofon headshell at 16.8g, will have a total effective mass of around 26g! ;)

If the arm on the PL-71 works better (to your ears) with a 103, then it's to do with something else other than achieving sufficient mass.

Marco.

[DSJR]

The Series 2 "Improved" and possibly the pre-Improved as well, is a little too lightweight and resonant for many MC types. I know the black-tack headshell gunk and the FD200 damper help a bit, but even then, I'd use an Ortofon 2M Black instead on a later series 2 Improved SME I think.. I doubt I'll ever be a*sed to do a modern SME bakeoff (I have the fixed shell one and Alex_UK has the detachable version), because I strongly suspect from instinct that the differences wouldn't be huge in the wider scheme of things.

The 3009R is a different matter though and I'd have thought that this model could lend itself well to a DL103 style of cartridge. ALL these J-tubed SME's are "lively" in tube behaviour, the R as well I understand, but as Marco says, the 103 should be perfectly happy here if the shell is right. Remember though, that correct loading is vital as well, so just getting the arm working right is only half the story.

Oh Gawd, I hope I've got it right....

One other thing. In the 3009/3012R, do SME still use the little rubber grommets on the base, or have they gone over to a solid mounting as in their solid models?

[NRG]

I'm puzzled then. I can only go on my experience so would express a degree of caution to the OP if he chooses the 103



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[vouk]

If the 103 is your cup of tea, two friends of mine are running it with SME 3009's (R with SME headshell) on Thorens decks (124 I think). Certainly compatible and they certainly love the combo.

[Robin]

Hmmm...lots to think about here then. Thanks for all the suggestions!
Seems like the DL103 might be a little expensive to get right, especially as I'll have to get an MC stage too.
Sticking to high output MC or MM then, the Goldring, Dynavector, Ortofon Black (although I'm a little concerned its too high compliance for the 3009R)
Anything else I should consider here?