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Marco
05-01-2009, 15:17
Denon DL-103SA in vintage Fidelity Research S/5 headshell (pink vinyl is 'Hard Candy' by Madonna - my apologies for any offence to music lovers :eyebrows:):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm01.jpg

My Mana stack from the left (with Tube Distinctions Copper amp lurking underneath) and to the right, my 'inconspicuous' Sony DAC on Phase 17 Mana). Audiocom modified X-777ES CD transport is on the bottom shelf:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm02.jpg

And again (with a bit of the room):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm03.jpg

More of the room (some vinyl, CDs, etc):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm04.jpg

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm05.jpg

Me Spendoroonies (these of course don't do much bass :eyebrows:):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm06.jpg

My new VPI record cleaner (can anyone think of a better use for the ECS amps underneath? ;)) :

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm07.jpg

KAB-modified SL-1210MK5G with Jelco SA-750D/Fidelity Research S/5 headshell and Denon DL-103SA:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm08.jpg

Close-up of Jelco and 1210:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm09.jpg

Close-ups of Jelco bearing and c/w (taken for possible use as avatars):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm10.jpg

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm11.jpg

Headshell and cartridge close-up:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm12.jpg

More of the 1210 on Phase 17 Mana:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm13.jpg

Auditorium A23 step-up transformer:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8360/05012009214hl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A nice front view of the Copper amp - Anthony does make some seriously lovely valve amps!

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm14.jpg

Some very nice sounding 1950s vintage GEC KT88s, Brimar CV1988 and Osram B65 valves:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm15.jpg

More valvey-poos:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm16.jpg

Audiocom modified Sony X-777ES CD transport and Croft preamp (who's that ugly mug looking back at ya?) :eyebrows:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm17.jpg

Front-on view of Croft preamp and its separate PSU (above PS-1200):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm18.jpg

Audiocom modified DAS-R1 DAC 'in the Gods':

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm19.jpg

Paying homage to Phase 17 stainless-steel Mana... 'We are not worthy' :eyebrows:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/05012009245jh2.jpg

The mad Marco-boy mains set-up (Transparent Reference mains leads plugged directly into MCBs in dedicated Memera CU from separate spur). Who needs silly mains blocks and plugs? :eyebrows::

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/05012009255bu5.jpg

Some of my cartridge collection pictured on top of the Rosewood finish Spendors (from left to right - vintage NOS 1970s Shure M75ED in original NOS SME headshell, Denon DL-103SA in NOS FR S/5 headshell, Denon DL-103R in Audio-Technica LH-18 headshell, and at the back a NOS vintage Ortofon SL-15 currently on loan from Toppsy but I'll probably be buying it :)):

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/05012009252ll5.jpg

Doncha just lurve detachable headshells for ease of cartridge swapping? :eyebrows:

Marco.

John
05-01-2009, 15:51
Nice looking system and good record and CD collection
Always find it strange when you see people with really ultra high end systems and about 100 albums or less and the turntable looks greatbut seems a bit high up I guess you must be a tall man!!!
Pink Vinyl ?

Marco
05-01-2009, 15:54
Cheers, John! :)

There's plenty more pics to follow. Just off to listen to some music with Stevie boy :gig:

Marco.

Audiocom AV
05-01-2009, 16:09
Hey Marco

Watch that Sony DAS-R1 doesn't topple, I certainly wouldn't want to stack my Levinson ML-2's up there :)

I hope that table lamp is a low noise type, candles are best!

On a serious note; a very nice system and what looks like a relaxed listening environment.

Do you have any system plans for 2009?

Best Wishes
Mark

aquapiranha
05-01-2009, 18:04
Nice Marco. I still need to come over and have a listen!

Filterlab
05-01-2009, 18:37
Any speakers?

:lol:

Ali Tait
05-01-2009, 18:47
I would move the amp if it were me Marco.Trapped heat there.Not good for the amp and may even reduce valve life long-term.Nice pics!

Marco
05-01-2009, 19:01
Any speakers?

:lol:

Scroll up, ya dafty, to "My Spendoroonies"! :ner:

Marco.

P.S I'd like my new avatar featured on the new banner, matey :)

Marco
05-01-2009, 19:03
I would move the amp if it were me Marco.Trapped heat there.Not good for the amp and may even reduce valve life long-term.Nice pics!

Are you talking about the Copper amp, Ali? If so, it might look dodgy in the photo but it's got plenty of ventilation where it is :)

If it's the ECS monoblocks (under the record cleaner) they're not plugged in! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:06
My new VPI record cleaner (can anyone think of a better use for the ECS amps underneath? ;)) :

Of course!

I'm sure you still have my address! :eyebrows:

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:07
Feel free to send the ol' Spendor's too! :)

Marco
05-01-2009, 19:13
LOL. Just bring a van, a tenner, and a cheeky wee smile and they're yours :)

Marco.

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:14
Deal! :)

I'll even cook dinner. :eyebrows:

Marco
05-01-2009, 19:34
Hehehe... What do you think of the pics, Mikey? Not bad for Steve's camera phone, eh!

I think the first one of the cartridge (also my avatar) is quite incredible for clarity (Steve took the pics, not me, btw) :)

Marco.

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:49
Pretty nice Marco me old boyo!

Must be a cool phone.... the photo's from mine are pants. I don't like that headshell though, I'm sure it must do the biz or you wouldn't give it the time of day. It just looks, err, poo :) What the hell is that big screw head all about then? :scratch:

Are you busy? Got time for a quick phone call?

Primalsea
05-01-2009, 19:52
Thats all very nice Marco. Please PM me with your address and when you will be away on holiday this year.

Something you might like to try... I've found that by just placing the glass sheets on each other kills resonances. I have 3 stacked under my 401. I tried putting cones between the sheets but it was fairly bad.

Primalsea
05-01-2009, 19:54
Are you busy? Got time for a quick phone call?

Why, are you going to talk dirty to him about how stiff his tomearm is? :lol:

Marco
05-01-2009, 19:54
Mikey,

Give me a bell after 9pm? :)

LOL! That big screw adjusts the mounting plate underneath (allows it to move back and forth), which the cartridge screws into, for alignment purposes. It's a much less fiddly arrangement than the usual method.

I like the retro look. It's from the FR-66 tonearm of 80s vintage and cost me £190 on Ebay (just for the headshell)! :eyebrows:

It's super high-mass (20g) and just what the 103SA needs - makes it sing like a very nice singing singy thing... :cool:

Marco.

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:56
Why, are you going to talk dirty to him about how stiff his tomearm is? :lol:

Not exactly... bit I CAN supply his address. For a small fee! :eyebrows:

Mike
05-01-2009, 19:58
cost me £190 on Ebay! :eyebrows:

Were you wearing a hi-viz jacket?.... Someone saw you coming! :eyebrows: :lol:

Marco
05-01-2009, 20:04
They're rare as Hen's, Mikey...

Anyway, the main thing is that it makes the cartridge sound stunning - :wow:

Marco.

Gromit
05-01-2009, 20:23
Nice one Marco - lookin' goooood :)

And that Jelco looks very much at home on the old Tecchy. :smoking:

Beechwoods
05-01-2009, 21:02
Thanks for sharing these, Marco. It looks like you have a loft room as well. How do you get on with the angled ceilings? A blessing or a curse?

Love the Pink vinyl :) I have a great pink 7" by V/VM called 'Pig'... not as musical as the Madonna track; it features 7 minutes or so of field recordings done in an abattoir. Not exactly party material. But looks very good atop a decent turntable ;)

And on that note I'll make my excuses.

:door:

Marco
05-01-2009, 21:13
Hey Marco

Watch that Sony DAS-R1 doesn't topple, I certainly wouldn't want to stack my Levinson ML-2's up there

I hope that table lamp is a low noise type, candles are best!

On a serious note; a very nice system and what looks like a relaxed listening environment.

Do you have any system plans for 2009?


Hi Mark,

The DAS-R1 is as safe as houses, mate. Mana is like 'Weebles' - it wobbles but it doesn't fall down! :eyebrows:

The table lamp is on the house ring main - totally separate from the hi-fi, so no worries there (even if you were being serious :lol:)

The candles go on at night - it's very cosy! (When the room catches fire, it's even cosier) :D

Those 'in the know' will appreciate that one!

I like it - it's a dedicated music room, so no 'normal' bollocks in there to get in the way. I wouldn't have a house without a separate music/hi-fi room :gig:

Plenty of system plans for 2009; you'll be involved in some of them... Namely:

1) Having my CDP and DAC further modified and improved with Bybees, DCT, etc.

2) Slatedeck plinth for my 1210.

3) (Possibly) new speakers - either some Bastani OBs, big Tannoys, JBLs or Jamo OBs.

And whatever else takes my fancy :cool:

Marco.

Marco
05-01-2009, 21:21
Nice one Marco - lookin' goooood :)

And that Jelco looks very much at home on the old Tecchy. :smoking:

Cheers, Rich :)

My system pictures have been long overdue - I just had to wait until the Toyster came round with his rather nice camera phone.

I agree the Jelco and 1210 are a match made in heaven...visually and sonically ;)

Have you read the review of the Jelco in this month's HFW? If not, you should!

Beechy,

It's not a loft, just an upstairs room. I live in an old lodge dating from 1887 with oak beams in all the rooms. The rooms also have very thick walls and lots of angles, so miles away from your modern 'rectangular'-shaped room. The acoustics are very good :)

Marco.

pure sound
05-01-2009, 21:42
Looking good Marco.

I'll be eagerly awaiting news of your speaker testing (tasting?) adventures as & when they happen.

Ali Tait
05-01-2009, 22:29
Yes the copper jobbie Marco.Be fine as long as it's got room to breathe!

Marco
05-01-2009, 22:48
Nice Marco. I still need to come over and have a listen!

Anytime, Steve. Just PM me when you fancy it :cool:

Marco.

Marco
05-01-2009, 22:52
Looking good Marco.

I'll be eagerly awaiting news of your speaker testing (tasting?) adventures as & when they happen.


Hi Guy,

I'm just waiting for when it's convenient for Clive to bring round the Bastanis, and then I'll take things from there and do some auditioning of other stuff. Don't worry, all will be reported on the forum :)

Ali,

Yeah, it's cool dude (no pun intended ;)).

You need to come round sometime, too, for a sesh. See if you can drag Mighty Mo with you :cool:

Marco.

scoobs
05-01-2009, 23:09
Nice hideaway & music center there Marco, we've waited a long time to see it mate. By the way, what do you mean with OB's as a suffix to your speaker selections? :scratch:

Is it just me, or is Marco guilty of gratuitous use of :cool: lately?...steady on fella, you'll end up falling into your twin towers :)

:cool:

Marco
05-01-2009, 23:12
LOL!! :cool:

Cheers, Scoobsy!

"OB" = open baffle - i.e, no (traditional) 'cabinets'.

I'm currently investigating this type of speaker technology as it has a magic all of its own :)

Marco.

scoobs
05-01-2009, 23:14
Ah yes, I know what you mean now. I have been intrigued by those Jamo's too, would love to hear them.

Marco
05-01-2009, 23:20
Here are the Jamos I'm interested in (or possibly their smaller brothers if these are too big for my room):

http://www.jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=2250&M=Shop&PID=15707&ProductID=17723

I like them in Red - I think they'd go nicely with my decor :)

Or the Bastani OBs:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0907/bastanis_atlas.htm

Or possibly Tannoy Glenair:

http://www.tannoy-speakers.com/s.php?product=175

Nothing less than a 12" woofer will do! 15" is even better... I don't do 'diddy' speakers :eyebrows:

Marco.

scoobs
05-01-2009, 23:34
Christ...those Glenair's look like they'll blast you into next week. Fabulous!

Marco
05-01-2009, 23:42
That's the plan, muchacho!

I like bass you can 'chew' ;)

Marco.

Filterlab
05-01-2009, 23:58
The Bastani would be my choice, I've heard the Jamo and wasn't impressed, the Tannoy Dual-Concentrics always sound a little sluggish, but then I prefer smaller drivers to large - I favour slightly different presentation.

Marco
06-01-2009, 00:01
The Jury's out, Rob, so we'll see :)

I doubt the Glenairs will sound "sluggish", though. I've heard Ian's Canterburys and other large Tannoys and "sluggish" they ain't! :eyebrows:

Marco.

P.S Banner looks coolioooooo... now it's live!

Filterlab
06-01-2009, 00:04
I guess only a home demo can tell the truth. I've heard all of them with different systems at different times in different places, so my (or anyone's) findings are not much to go by. :) I'm sure you'll choose something that suits you right down to the ground, and obviously threatens to dislodge the very foundations of your house. :lol: I know you like a 'full' sound. ;)

Marco
06-01-2009, 00:12
Yup, not so much "full" as with real depth, scale, and 'physicality', like with live music, which you can only get with big drive units in large and inert cabinets shifting plenty of air! :gig:

Btw, it just crossed my mind, do you have a picture of your full system in the Gallery? I can't remember seeing one, although you've posted bits and pieces before. Maybe I'm just being forgetful!

Marco.

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 00:13
Are you sure you have enough Mana tables there ? Was there a closing down sale or what ? :lolsign: There was, Drat I missed it .

To be serious for a moment very nice set up you have there, nice room too.

I use a Mana ref table in my upstairs set up.(Just the one ). I found that my Marantz cd 94 mk 2 sounded brilliant on it (this was back in 1991 ). It now has an AMR CD 77 sitting on it and a Music Ref 200 amp below. Ventilation is no problem.

I now understand why you where part of a Mana Forum.;)

Regards D S D L ---- Neil :)

Marco
06-01-2009, 00:24
Hi Neil,

LOL. Most of the Mana supports are identical replicas I've had made from non-magnetic stainless steel (as opposed to the magnetic angle-iron of the original stuff) for a fraction of the price when I discovered where to buy the materials and have the stands and supports made. This was the only option available to obtain 'Mana' supports after the demise of the company. I used to have all you can see on the picture as 'genuine' Mana but sold it for a fortune (bearing in mind that each level or 'Soundstage' used to retail for £200 and I had 34 of them, not to mention the racks themselves ;)). I spent some of it on getting the replicas made and the rest on wine women and song :eyebrows:

The 'genuine' stuff remaining is only my 6-tier amp rack (the big one on the right), which incidentally is one of only about five that were made from stainless steel before Mana unfortunately went bust - a real collectors item!

The other 'genuine' bits are my custom-made speaker stands and the Soundbases underneath. It makes an absolutely huge difference to the performance of the system.

Marco.

Arlequen
06-01-2009, 01:39
Alla faccia dei tavolini per elettroniche! To change CD you need an extension ladder

Pretty room .. Marco .. my compliments

Marco
06-01-2009, 01:39
Why, are you going to talk dirty to him about how stiff his tomearm is? :lol:

His heavy breathing was terrible when we were chatting, Paul - I've no idea what he was doing... I've recorded it for posterity, though :lol:

Marco.

Marco
06-01-2009, 01:46
Alla faccia dei tavolini per elettroniche! To change CD you need an extension ladder

Pretty room .. Marco .. my compliments

Grazie molto, Gabriele! :)

No extension ladder needed - the CD transport is quite low down (at my waist level) so loading CDs isn't a problem, but the DAC is way above my head although I can reach it to lift it (I'm 6 feet two inches tall). It also weighs 18kg (as does the transport). Fortunately I don't have to touch the DAC very often!

Marco.

Steve Toy
06-01-2009, 01:56
Audiocom modified Sony X-777ES CD transport and Croft preamp (who's that ugly mug looking back at ya?)


It aint me FFS, I was taking the shot (note the angles). That should narrow it down a bit.

I'm just waiting for some roguester to post this pic rather naughtily on another forum....

Marco
06-01-2009, 02:00
I know it's not you, dafty! Trust you to interpret it that way. So if it's not you and there was only you and me there... ;)


I'm just waiting for some roguester to post this pic rather naughtily on another forum....


Don't give a flying f*ck!

Anyway, pics look great so thanks for your time and effort, dude :smoking:

Marco.

Steve Toy
06-01-2009, 02:12
I knew you knew it wasn't me. I was just thoughtfully considering the rest of our audience... I mean,, I really must disown that, er, ghostly (or is it ghastly?) portrait...:eyebrows: :lol:

MartinT
06-01-2009, 05:11
Marco, what do you do about playing SACDs? Since the 777 has no DSD digital output (I used to have an SCD-1), presumably you switch inputs to the player direct rather than DAC? Is your player also Audiocom modified? In which case, you are getting good SACD playback. Are you connecting balanced or single-ended?

Filterlab
06-01-2009, 08:44
Btw, it just crossed my mind, do you have a picture of your full system in the Gallery? I can't remember seeing one, although you've posted bits and pieces before. Maybe I'm just being forgetful!

I don't think so, maybe the system I was listening through at the end of 2007, but certainly not the current system. I'll get my camera out at some point and reel off a few shots. :)

Marco
06-01-2009, 10:14
Marco, what do you do about playing SACDs? Since the 777 has no DSD digital output (I used to have an SCD-1), presumably you switch inputs to the player direct rather than DAC? Is your player also Audiocom modified? In which case, you are getting good SACD playback. Are you connecting balanced or single-ended?

Hi Martin,

The Sony plays SACDs but only as standard 'Red Book'. That's fine for me as I don't rate SACD as being better. It may offer higher resolution but to my ears it doesn't sound as 'musical' - a bit too squeaky clean and 'hi-fi' sounding, if you like. It's rather like in the days of cassette tape: I much preferred the sound of recordings made on high quality Chrome tape (or even 'Normal' tape) compared to Metal tape, even on my Nakamichi. It's merely a presentational issue; I suspect we like slightly different things in that respect :)

The X-777ES has a digital output but only for connecting a standard Red Book DAC, such as the DAS-R1, which is connected in single-ended mode (there are no balanced XLRs on the back of the DAS-R1 to facilitate a balanced connection, although there are on the X-777ES). Both are extensively Audiocom modified and will be further modified by Mark in due course.

It is the best CDP combo I've heard by a country mile (CDPs just aren't made like this anymore at any kind of a realistic and affordable price). I'm sure the bar will be raised even further when Mark gets his grubby mits on it again... :eyebrows:

Marco.

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 10:18
Great System Marco

Love those valves and the copper chassis mmm, i see you have mothership i got this for xmas i think its much better than the digital remasters from 1990 ,what do you think.

Marco
06-01-2009, 10:20
I don't think so, maybe the system I was listening through at the end of 2007, but certainly not the current system. I'll get my camera out at some point and reel off a few shots. :)

Do it when you can, matey. We need all the up-to-date systems belonging to admin in there :)

Marco.

Filterlab
06-01-2009, 10:29
Will do. I'm going to grab myself one of Stan's new DACs soon and have a spin of that, see how it compares to the Apogee. There's a load of rave reviews about Stan's DACs on the web so my interest is piqued, as the new one has a USB input as well as the normal S/PDIF inputs it's doubled my interest. Who knows, chances are it may trounce the Apogee. :) Anyway, will get my camera out at some point.

Marco
06-01-2009, 10:33
Great System Marco

Love those valves and the copper chassis mmm, i see you have mothership i got this for xmas i think its much better than the digital remasters from 1990 ,what do you think.

Damn right, Chris. The difference is quite marked (as I have both) and the heavyweight 'audiophile' vinyl box set version is without question sonically superior, especially after it's been thoroughly cleaned on the VPI ;)

Incidentally, underneath that there is also a box set of 'The Sound Remains the Same' by Led Zep produced by the same company, and the exact same applies regarding sound quality.

Honestly, I don't know how I've managed to live for so long without genuinely clean records! The difference is quite staggering in terms of vanishingly low levels of surface noise and therefore much better sound. It's fundamental to enjoying music properly on vinyl so everyone with a turntable should own a proper record cleaner. You think your records are clean with dusting or applying the various cleaning fluids available by hand, but that's far from the case even with brand new records! I will be posting a separate thread on this later.

The Copper amp is simply stunning visually and sonically and will be a keeper for a very long time. When something is just so 'right' you don't sell it :)

Marco.

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 10:43
Yes marco i know what mean i used to have the moth one and now really miss it ,
you see i had to sell almost my entire system as i took out a mortgage etc, i don't know if you are familiar with the 2nd audio triode amps or border patrol but they were a bit special.

The good thing is a very good friend of mine has the same amps so i can go and listen to them now and again oh and i still have my Snells which i just love to bits,
your speakers have wide baffles like the Snells they look pretty awesome i must say.

Marco
06-01-2009, 10:56
Chris,

Sorry to hear what happened - I'm sure you'll get back to where you were at some point. I know of Border Patrol but not heard of 2nd Audio. Got any links to some pictures?

I do like Snell speakers after hearing the Type Cs and Type Es a while back.

I love the Spendors (I've had them from new since 2002), however high quality OBs and large dual-concentric Tannoys have a sound and magic all of their own. I fancy a slice of that, although every day when I listen to music and hear how fantastic it sounds I wonder whether it's really necessary to change the speakers...

If I do, you can rest assured that I'll audition the alternatives extremely thoroughly at home as always before making a decision, and whatever gets included in my system to replace the Spendors will have to be markedly superior in all the areas important to how I enjoy listening to music.

I don't change gear willy-nilly!

Marco.

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 11:02
http://members.1012surfnet.at/tube.audio/AudioInnovationsFirst.jpg

This was the 1st audio the 2nd looked the same but were mono's and i had B/Patrol psu's

Marco
06-01-2009, 11:08
Sexy looking amp, Chris! No idea how it sounds, though. I presume quite special? :)

Marco.

MartinT
06-01-2009, 11:12
My highly modified (I had every Audiocom mod going) SCD-1 was a superb sounding machine, very good on both red-book CD and SACD (which I do rate). However, the Ayre clobbered it in every way. It was not cheap, but I got a good deal on trading-in the SCD-1 and shed only a small tear on its departure. The Ayre simply takes my breath away it's so good. Plays DVD-As too!

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 11:45
Sexy looking amp, Chris! No idea how it sounds, though. I presume quite special? :)

Marco.

Thanks Marco yes it was' 2a3 at 15 watts no local or negative feedback
but with a solid state rectifier so a great sound but bass was out of control
the BP sorted that with a gz37 in a choke input filter .

if you ever get a chance try and listen to a Border patrol set up with one of Kevin Scott's speakers' Living Voice tone scouts and air partner i am sure he wouldn't mind even if you don't spend any money.

Definitive Audio nottingham

Marco
06-01-2009, 12:09
Chris, will do!

Martin,


My highly modified (I had every Audiocom mod going) SCD-1 was a superb sounding machine, very good on both red-book CD and SACD (which I do rate). However, the Ayre clobbered it in every way. It was not cheap, but I got a good deal on trading-in the SCD-1 and shed only a small tear on its departure. The Ayre simply takes my breath away it's so good. Plays DVD-As too!

I'm sure the SCD-1 was an excellent machine; although, however extensively Audiocom-modified, a DAS-R1 it is not. The respective DAC and PSU arrangements used on the DAS-R1 and SCD-1, and overall component choice are rather different, not to mention the TDA1541 chip factor (which I don't think the SCD-1 uses). That's the key difference and probably one of the reasons your Ayre "clobbered" it. The Ayre is a very good CD player, although I suspect Mark could improve it even further ;)

Personally, as far as CDPs go, I'm only interested in the Red Book format. DVD-As and SACDs hold no interest for me whatsoever. If I ever add a home cinema system to my room (a possibility) then I may change my mind about the former!

However, transport-wise, the SCD-1 and my X-777ES would be quite similar though I would have thought. Mark will be able to elucidate on this better than me. Also I think he mentioned that in his experience CD-only machines make Red Book CD sound best, with SACD circuitry having a detrimental effect on 'vanilla' CD sound...

I'll ask him to contribute to the thread and offer his further thoughts for reference :)

Marco.

DSJR
06-01-2009, 17:36
A very impressive system Marco. Spendors in corners - EEK! I had equivalent active ATC100A's in a similar position and they sounded fine too...

All that "Mana." Do you "really" need so much? Sorry (washes mouth out) - I always thought it a complete con (not being into "smoke" or other naughty things that reputedly went with it)....

Marco, what's your better half doing whilst you're upstairs listening? Does she join you for a snuggle on the sofa or is it like a friends house where he has the HiFi upstairs and herself is downstairs on her lonesome watching telly?

Dare I post anything of my old tat? Well, being a vintage Spendor owner now, I'll go that far...

This is how my BC2's were when they came -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/BC2_smaller.jpg

Complete with foam crumblies on the floor from the once cushioned grilles and one of the knackered white surround bass units. The ATC corners can just be seen in the worst place for listening they could be...

chris@panteg
06-01-2009, 23:03
Hi again Marco
quick question regarding the VPI cleaning fluid my very good friend John has the same as yours but his fluid has gone sort of pink , is it still ok to use or should he bin it and get some fresh.

Marco
07-01-2009, 00:00
Sounds as if it's gone off, Chris. I'd chuck it. Personally, I don't use the VPI stuff - I use de-ionised water like you'd use in steam irons and car batteries, available from Halfords and such like for buttons...

It does a far better job! :)

Dave,

I'll come back to you tomorrow - off to bed now.

Marco.

Audiocom AV
07-01-2009, 11:19
However, transport-wise, the SCD-1 and my X-777ES would be quite similar though I would have thought. Mark will be able to elucidate on this better than me. Also I think he mentioned that in his experience CD-only machines make Red Book CD sound best, with SACD circuitry having a detrimental effect on 'vanilla' CD sound...

I'll ask him to contribute to the thread and offer his further thoughts for reference :)

Marco.

Hi Marco

The Sony SCD-1/777ES are indeed very differently designed to the Sony CDP-R1 & DAS-R1. I have owned two SCD-1 players from new, the first purchased in 2000 and mainly for the expectations of SACD and back catalogue. Having done nearly every conceivable upgrade on the SCD-1 my conclusion is that the players analogue stage is always going to be the limiting factor, it is too complicated and parts busy; perhaps ‘tuned’ for SACD. Our upgrades for the SCD-1 have moved on considerably since we completed Martin’s player, but now my recommendation for owners of the SCD-1/777ES is that they add an external DAC such as the Benchmark DAC1 and upgrade the ‘transport’ section only of the SCD-1.

The standard OEM versions of Sony CDP-R1 & DAS-R1 is in a different league sonically to the SCD-1 on Red Book CD and will gives it SACD performance a real challenge. When the R1 & SCD-1 units are upgraded the performance gap significantly widens, largely because the quality of the power supplies, DAC’s, etc, lend themselves to more comprehensive and exotic upgrades.

The Ayre CD players are also exceptional players and should be high on the list for anybody looking for a recent hi-end design which cuts above the rest. The company’s attention to detail is refreshing, no TCXO module clocks as seen in most £10K+ players, they design their own from the ground up. The clock, DAC and analogue regulators are discrete. The Burr Brown PCM1792 that the Ayre C-5xe uses is going to sound very different from the TDA1541A S1/S2.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

chris@panteg
07-01-2009, 11:32
Sounds as if it's gone off, Chris. I'd chuck it. Personally, I don't use the VPI stuff - I use de-ionised water like you'd use in steam irons and car batteries, available from Halfords and such like for buttons...

It does a far better job! :)

Dave,

I'll come back to you tomorrow - off to bed now.

Marco.

Thanks Marco
so just de-ionised water then i think he will be pleased with that, we always thought it had to be mixed with something.

cheers' Chris:)

Marco
07-01-2009, 11:48
No worries, Chris. Glad to be of help :)

Mark,

Thanks for that - it's just as I suspected. The key thing to remember I think is that the 'modern' Sony CDPs, SACD-equipped or otherwise, just aren't quite up to the standard of the 'no-compromise' classic models of the late 80s/early 90s when Sony (and also the likes of Marantz) got it *so* right.

I doubt we'll ever see their likes again... But hey, things move on and computer audio done right used in conjunction with a superb DAC like the DAS-R1, or the Benchmark you mention, is pretty exciting!


The standard OEM versions of Sony CDP-R1 & DAS-R1 is in a different league sonically to the SCD-1 on Red Book CD and will gives it SACD performance a real challenge.


By that do you also mean the quality of their respective transport sections?

Marco.

MartinT
07-01-2009, 11:59
The Ayre CD players are also exceptional players and should be high on the list for anybody looking for a recent hi-end design which cuts above the rest. The company’s attention to detail is refreshing, no TCXO module clocks as seen in most £10K+ players, they design their own from the ground up. The clock, DAC and analogue regulators are discrete. The Burr Brown PCM1792 that the Ayre C-5xe uses is going to sound very different from the TDA1541A S1/S2

Thanks for that, Mark. Your description and what I hear from my Ayre exactly co-incide. As a matter of interest, do you offer any upgrades for the C-5xe?

Audiocom AV
07-01-2009, 13:30
As a matter of interest, do you offer any upgrades for the C-5xe?

Hi Martin

We can offer upgrades for the Ayre C-5xe.

There are varying levels of Bybee purifiers that can be applied for the AC supplies & signal.

I have not yet looked at player but would be confident to say we can squeeze more out of the player by upgrades to power supplies, regulation, decoupling & bypassing. It is important with any upgrade that the ‘voicing’ of the designer is carried through and essential that upgrades have a balanced and synergistic approach.

I respect Charles Hansen attention to power supplies; the player has linear supplies for digital & analogue circuits with separate transformers.

This year we plan to investigate upgrades to Ayre and other high-end brands including Wadia.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

Audiocom AV
07-01-2009, 14:05
By that do you also mean the quality of their respective transport sections?

Marco.

Hi Marco

The CD transport sections of both these players are both gifted, the SCD-1/777ES using a robust fixed-disc pick up and the CDP-R1 with its “G” system based on the "G" compound with a complex mechanical silencing system and sapphire bearing. The CDP-R1 is part of the highest class ‘Esprit’ series whereas the SCD-777ES is the ‘ES’ range.

Areas of the R1 series such as power supplies, chassis, are superior; the combination of R1 transport & DAC uses 4x encapsulated transformers for each of the 4 linear supplies, the SCD-1 has 2 linear supplies. The R1 also uses multiple Copper shielding to fully isolate power supplies, digital circuits, analogue circuits, display, etc.

Another factor is the use of the TDA1541A S1/S2 D/A converter. With the right implementation this is amongst the best sounding DAC chips ever made.

IMO, Sony high-end was at its peak in the late 1980’s, early 1990’s, the R1 sold in 1989 for £5000. There is also the R10 series which sold for YEN 2,000,000, take a look here;

http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyesprit/CDPR10/CDPR10.html

At today’s currency rate that equates to approx. £15,000 or around £27,600 in 2009.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

Dave Cawley
07-01-2009, 15:56
May I sincerely and belatedly say; that this is one dogs bollocks of a system Marco!

Regards

Dave

John
07-01-2009, 16:16
Hi Marco
Around the open baffles Yes I think Clive coming round with his speakers is the best way to move forwards with this
On Saturday I am off to hear what the Hawthorne can do read a few good things about them on the DIY forums and may offer a cheaper means to get the magic of Open Baffles If you want I let you know my impressions

Spectral Morn
07-01-2009, 16:27
WOW, WOW, WOW ,WOW :gig:

That looks like an amzing CDP, any one heard one ?

I used to have an SCD 777es but I did swap with a friend. The silence of the mech is incredible. Putting your ear to the lid, spinning an SACD, its silent. I have not come across anything which is silent spinning SACD's other than these fixed drive Sony machines. The action of the lid closing, pure magic. I agree with Mark Sony R1 (multi bit version) and the SCD 1 and SCD 777es best they ever did. IMHO

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Audiocom AV
07-01-2009, 17:02
WOW, WOW, WOW ,WOW :gig:

That looks like an amzing CDP, any one heard one ?



Hi Neil

I have read that Sony only made around 100 units of the R10 series, probably reserved for executives of the company.

Best Wishes
Mark

Marco
07-01-2009, 23:15
WOW, WOW, WOW ,WOW :gig:

That looks like an amzing CDP, any one heard one ?

I used to have an SCD 777es but I did swap with a friend. The silence of the mech is incredible. Putting your ear to the lid, spinning an SACD, its silent. I have not come across anything which is silent spinning SACD's other than these fixed drive Sony machines. The action of the lid closing, pure magic. I agree with Mark Sony R1 (multi bit version) and the SCD 1 and SCD 777es best they ever did. IMHO

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Indeed, and in a different league to a bloody Nagra or any of the so-called 'hi-end' CDPs made nowadays!! :lol: :lolsign:

;)

Marco.

(Ex-R1, now X-777ES, which is just as good, and DAS-R1 multi-bit DAC, all extensively modifed by Audiocom which makes it all even better, owner).

Marco
13-01-2009, 23:59
Sorry, Dave - I've just seen this!


A very impressive system Marco. Spendors in corners - EEK! I had equivalent active ATC100A's in a similar position and they sounded fine too...


Cheers, mate. They're 'in the corners', but not really 'in' the corners, if you get me. There's about a foot and a half at either side of each speaker from the wall. The speakers are basically as far apart as possible in my fairly narrow room (to take advantage of the room's full width) and heavily toed into the listening position, which is where they sound best.


All that "Mana." Do you "really" need so much?


Yep, certainly in terms of the speaker stands and supports. I would never get away with using such big speakers in a small room otherwise as they'd boom like hell (I know because I had the SP100s pre-Mana and used them with Atacama stands as Spendor recommended - they were pants). With the Mana speaker stands and supports the bass is deep, sphincter-tight, and tuneful, so I know the stuff works!

As far as the rest of the system goes, well I don't "really" need as much Mana, but it sounds much better that way. Basically every 'level' removes more of the effect of the room until eventually you effectively 'cocoon' the system from almost any effects of micrpohony or vibration, especially necessary with two 12" drivers often pushing out lots of air in the vicinity! :gig:


Sorry (washes mouth out) - I always thought it a complete con (not being into "smoke" or other naughty things that reputedly went with it)....


It's definitely not a con despite what you might think or what some ex-Mana users eleswhere with an axe to grind might say. Trust me, I know what this stuff does inside out. I've simply been too thorough in my experiments with it for any other conclusion to be reached. I'll demonstate the effect to you if you ever visit :)


Marco, what's your better half doing whilst you're upstairs listening? Does she join you for a snuggle on the sofa or is it like a friends house where he has the HiFi upstairs and herself is downstairs on her lonesome watching telly?


That happens sometimes of course but quite often we'll open up a nice bottle of wine, and like you say snuggle up on the sofa listening to some tunes. The only problem is when she's there I usually suffer listening to her Punk albums! :mental:

Nah, I don't mind some of that stuff really.

Nice BC2s - veritable classics! I love them too, but they sound very different to my SP100s.

Marco.

P.S Cheers, Mr Cawley!

PartTimeJedi
17-05-2010, 11:48
Hi Marco, I noticed reading the forum from about a year ago you went for Tannoy DC Reds 15 over Monitor Golds. Your signature now has Monitor Golds, is there some threads as to why you moved from Reds to Golds or can you clarify. I used to use Monitor Gold 15's in Lancasters some years ago. Looking at going back to Tannoy - have not heard Reds though and thinking of going for Reds or Golds, having custom cabinets built in GRF form. Planning on using Class A 50W monos.Thanks for any input/update.

Marco
17-05-2010, 17:20
Hiya, have a read here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2795&highlight=tannoy

:cool:

Marco.

soundfanz
26-05-2010, 09:13
Wow. I love your system Marco, especially that turntable rig you have. Bet it sounds pretty darn good?

Chris

Marco
26-05-2010, 09:54
Hi Chris,

Cheers! Yes, it certainly hits the spot nicely :)

It will soon have a new PSU, and possibly also a new platter and plinth. When it's finished it'll be nothing like an SL-1210! :eyebrows:

Apart from the addition of the Lockwoods (in place of the Spendors), nothing much has changed in my system. I tend not to change equipment very often, although I will occasionally tweak the 'internals' of my existing kit to maximise its sonic abilities ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
26-05-2010, 10:35
http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm02.jpg


Marco where did you get the side pannels from Re: your Sony CDP/DAC. i need the exact same ones?

Marco
26-05-2010, 10:38
Hi Andre,

They came with the kit, dude :)

I'd PM Mark from Audiocom, as he often has 'scrap' Sony units he keeps for parts - might be a few panels left on 'em :cool:

Marco.

Rare Bird
26-05-2010, 10:40
Hi dude
Yeh Mark told me look on E-Bay.. ok i'll be patient :lolsign:

Marco
26-05-2010, 10:42
Lol - I'm surprised you don't make your own from some nice slabs of mahogany, as you are somewhat of a wood-meister :)

Arthur told me how much of a perfectionist you were when it came to plinths! ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
26-05-2010, 10:57
Lol - I'm surprised you don't make your own from some nice slabs of mahogany, as you are somewhat of a wood-meister :)

Arthur told me how much of a perfectionist you were when it came to plinths! ;)

Marco.

Well i actually plan making European Oak ones but i need those nice inserts round the fixing bolts make it look all professional.So any condition side will do really..I bought this cheap 'ES' Sony machine off E-Bay to have a play about with as a transport. Dosnt have TDA1541 in this particular model see.

Whos Arthur ;)

Azguy64
28-05-2010, 13:40
Hi Marco,is the Mana stainless as much of an improvement over the black as some Mana owners have said? I have a Mana 5 tier with 8 stages below it one Sound frame above it, speakers at stage 3 (pictures forthcoming).Used Mana stages are really getting scarce in the states and I haven't seen one in A'gon in 2 years although I know some one who just sold me one will sell me 2 more once I can afford it.It's too bad Mana is out of business and won't be coming back anytime soon.At least it would be great if JW who holds the patent would license the manufacturing out-best kept secret in high end audio IMHO

Azguy64
28-05-2010, 13:52
Wow! Marco-I just read your post on page 5 about the "knock off" Mana stands and supports.Shure wish I could buy something like that in the states!

Rare Bird
28-05-2010, 15:23
Wow! Marco-I just read your post on page 5 about the "knock off" Mana stands and supports.Shure wish I could buy something like that in the states!

Originals should have one of these below

DSJR
28-05-2010, 17:19
The "Mana" you get from this stuff is the high from the spliff you're toking while putting it all together.............. ;)

Azguy64
28-05-2010, 21:04
The "Mana" you get from this stuff is the high from the spliff you're toking while putting it all together.............. ;)

Don't know about that but boy does Mana work on the sound-which I got reminded of a few weeks ago with the installation of another Sound Stage.Interesting I read on the old Mana forum with the odd numbered levels listeners seemed to notice the effect more than the even ones.Care to comment on that-Marco?

The Grand Wazoo
28-05-2010, 23:41
Interesting I read on the old Mana forum with the odd numbered levels listeners seemed to notice the effect more than the even ones.Care to comment on that-Marco?


Saddle up guys - here we go again...................!

Marco
30-05-2010, 10:14
Don't know about that but boy does Mana work on the sound-which I got reminded of a few weeks ago with the installation of another Sound Stage.Interesting I read on the old Mana forum with the odd numbered levels listeners seemed to notice the effect more than the even ones.Care to comment on that-Marco?

Hiya,

What's your first name and where are you from in the States? :)

To answer your question, it was most likely a load of bollocks.... Personally, I've never subscribed to that notion. Mana works because of the way it's designed; not because of whether the number of Stages you use is odd or even.

Marco.

DSJR
30-05-2010, 10:18
I bet if you stood your hifi on piles of books it would sound better Marco, or at least the same :ner:

Marco
30-05-2010, 10:21
Lol - don't start that pish again! :eyebrows:

Marco.

DSJR
30-05-2010, 10:25
Try it and see.............. ;)

Marco
30-05-2010, 10:31
I don't need to - I know what will happen... Not least of which all my gear coming crashing down on the floor! :lol:

I'll do it and send the bill to you for damages ;)

Marco.

Steve Toy
30-05-2010, 11:02
Fee fi fo fum I small the blood of an objectivist.....

Primalsea
30-05-2010, 11:44
I've heard that it sounds all a bit more creamy if you use porn mags.

Azguy64
30-05-2010, 12:03
Hiya,

What's your first name and where are you from in the States? :)

To answer your question, it was most likely a load of bollocks.... Personally, I've never subscribed to that notion. Mana works because of the way it's designed; not because of whether the number of Stages you use is odd or even.

Marco.

my name is Tom.I'm from Phoenix Az, and used to be a forum member of the old Mana forum.I asked about that cause that's what I read on the old Mana forum along with at which levels one can start to hear the equipment start to "disappear" so to speak.I sure miss the old Mana forum.Maybe someone can start a Mana "memorial" forum-lol

Marco
30-05-2010, 12:10
Hi Tom,

Thanks for that, and nice one. What was your username on the Mana forum? I'm trying to remember who you were - did we chat much? :)

Marco.

Azguy64
30-05-2010, 12:21
Hi Tom,

Thanks for that, and nice one. What was your username on the Mana forum? I'm trying to remember who you were - did we chat much? :)

Marco.

You know-Marco it's been so long I can't remember? It could have bee Tom D. but I'm not shure.

Marco
30-05-2010, 12:53
Hi Tom,

Yes it has been a long time.... Never mind you're here now on AOS, so please make it your home as much as the Mana forum was :)

Marco.

DSJR
30-05-2010, 13:39
Fee fi fo fum I small the blood of an objectivist.....

Yeah, I work better when well grounded in facts...:D that means the fantasies have a reference point..... :ner:

Steve Toy
30-05-2010, 15:58
The facts are meaningless if they bear no relation to what you hear.

Joe
30-05-2010, 16:22
Facts cannot be meaningless. If something is meaningless, then by definition it is not a fact.

From yer online dictionary, a fact is an:

Event, item of information, or state of affairs existing, observed, or known to have happened, and which is confirmed or validated to such an extent that it is considered 'reality.

Steve Toy
30-05-2010, 16:32
It is a reality that equipment that is properly isolated will perform better resulting in a more informative and involving listening experience..

Joe
30-05-2010, 16:41
It is a reality that equipment that is properly isolated will perform better resulting in a more informative and involving listening experience..

That's an opinion, which includes several imponderables, such as: what is 'properly isolated'? For example, does Quadrasprire isolate better than Mana? And what does 'better' mean in this context anyway?

A 'fact' would be 'your hifi won't work if it's not powered up', or 'you won't be able to connect your speakers to your amp if they're further away than your speaker cable' will reach'.

Opinions are fine, but labelling opinions, however strongly held, as 'fact' is misleading. The Beltists would have us believe that sticking bits of foil on the hifi, or tying knots in cables will improve the sound. I'm sure they'd say that this improvement was a 'fact'

Steve Toy
30-05-2010, 17:27
These are not opinions because they are based on experience. They are facts in exactly the same way that your hi-fi won't work if it's not powered up.

Objectivists don't have contradictory experience they merely have an agenda and a lack of proof in the form of data.

DSJR
30-05-2010, 18:42
Objectivists worthy of the name stay grounded and if they notice repeatable differences they can hear, then they attempt to find out why. That way, it's properly documented and everyone can benefit from the research. How do you think our mottley systems were designed in the first place????????

Marco
31-05-2010, 00:28
Hi Dave,

It's the ones not worthy of the name - the blinkered, belligerent, pseudo scientists (Ashley James and his ilk) - that Steve is referring to, and there are plenty of those types of idiots on forums! :rolleyes:

AOS was founded as a safe haven from the presence of such people.

Marco.

DSJR
31-05-2010, 09:54
Regarding vibration isolation, I did hear repeatable differences when some early noughties Arcam FMJ gear (the £1300 amp as well as CD player) was taken off the Target wall shelves we used and placed on a Something Solid XR stand

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/xr4-1.jpg

Pic nicked from Signals Ipswich (hope you don't mind Alastair).

Even Arcam acknowledged the vibrational sensitivity of some of their gear by placing damping pads on critical chips and components..

Marco
31-05-2010, 19:54
Indeed, Dave - properly designed equipment supports work in terms of isolating equipment from the effects of vibrational energy/microphony, so if you agree that the Something Solid XR works in that respect, then why shouldn't Mana?

It incorporates even more effective design principles to deal with the above than the SS XR!

Open your mind, dude, and let the years of ingrained prejudice leak out.... ;)

Marco.

DSJR
31-05-2010, 23:14
So what are these more effective design principles then, oh great one??? I doubt you've ever seen an XR rack let alone heard one as they're usually only sold down south anyway. You'd get your nylons in a knot setting one up I suspect too :D

Mark Orr is a trusted and utterly sane gent too and someone who's opinions and "vibe" I trust deeply - we knew him very well in my Northampton days..

Marco
31-05-2010, 23:26
Before I answer that, oh daft one, perhaps you could answer this:


Indeed, Dave - properly designed equipment supports work in terms of isolating equipment from the effects of vibrational energy/microphony, so if you agree that the Something Solid XR works in that respect, then why shouldn't Mana?


:)

Marco.

Rare Bird
01-06-2010, 00:08
:popcorn:

You could just buy some Torlyte

:lol:

:sofa::

Joe
01-06-2010, 09:41
I find that a fine layer of dust improves sound quality considerably. I'm certainly not going to put that at risk by removing the dust!

DSJR
01-06-2010, 09:49
I find that a fine layer of dust improves sound quality considerably. I'm certainly not going to put that at risk by removing the dust!



Oh I agree totally :D

Marco
01-06-2010, 09:55
Stop avoiding the question, daftee! :eyebrows:

Marco.

DSJR
01-06-2010, 10:02
I'm not.. It's just plonking loads of glass and angle iron layer on layer just seems so - well - silly and wasteful without having been properly analysed as the XR stand has been. I mean, has anyone done accelerometer tests to see what difference each layer makes?

Nah, give me balsa shelves and pre-tensioned boating line....

Marco
01-06-2010, 10:18
It's just plonking loads of glass and angle iron layer on layer just seems so - well - silly and wasteful without having been properly analysed as the XR stand has been.


"Properly analysed" in what way?

And that's not what Mana is... You're forgetting about the other materials, such as spikes and MDF boards (on Soundstages). It's the way the various materials 'interface' together, and how this succeeds to isolate the equipment from ground-borne vibration, that's the secret of how Mana works!

Oh, and my stands are made from non-magnetic stainless steel, not magnetic angle-iron........ There's a difference - and a big one, sonically.

When you come round you can 'analyse' until the cow's come home how, despite me using massive speakers, played at often deafening levels in a small room, pumping out huge slabs of bass, that you feel no vibration - none, nada, nowt, when you touch the stands or the Mana Soundstages supporting the equipment ;)

Dave you have much to learn in this area, me old chum!!

Marco.

DSJR
01-06-2010, 10:24
Nah, you're deaf matey after playing those rabbit hutches too loudly... :ner:

We've got concrete floors anyway - so absolutely NO vibration gets to the equipment cabinet. The Spendors don't go loud in any case and my ears can no longer stand it...

I dunno, construct a "problem" and then market an increasingly costly "cure..." :D

Seriously, I'm sure your customised mana style stands are fine and suit your suspended (?) upstairs floor perfectly, as I believe a certain Scottish Doctor has done.

Marco
01-06-2010, 10:29
Hahaha.... Mana works just as well on a concrete floor, Dave!

There's a reason why everyone who comes and hears my system is rather impressed, and it's not just because of the equipment I use, but how my system is set-up ;)

Marco.

Azguy64
01-06-2010, 11:52
"Properly analysed" in what way?

And that's not what Mana is... You're forgetting about the other materials, such as spikes and MDF boards (on Soundstages). It's the way the various materials 'interface' together, and how this succeeds to isolate the equipment from ground-borne vibration, that's the secret of how Mana works!

Oh, and my stands are made from non-magnetic stainless steel, not magnetic angle-iron........ There's a difference - and a big one, sonically.

When you come round you can 'analyse' until the cow's come home how, despite me using massive speakers, played at often deafening levels in a small room, pumping out huge slabs of bass, that you feel no vibration - none, nada, nowt, when you touch the stands or the Mana Soundstages supporting the equipment ;)

Dave you have much to learn in this area, me old chum!!

Marco.

I wish I had a stainless Mana rack.I wonder why JW stuck with the angled iron so long before going to stainless right at the very end? I still have my Radio Shack bulk tape deguasser-I was wondering if "demagnetizing" my angled iron 5 tier prior to listening would offer some temporary benefit akin to the stainless Mana ?-What do you think Marco?

Steve Toy
01-06-2010, 12:14
I think that would be akin to demagnetising a magnet, i.e. you can't, not like that anyway.




I wonder why JW stuck with the angled iron so long before going to stainless right at the very end?


Industry politics I guess. There was quite a ferrous versus non-ferrous dichotomy going on between 2000 and 2002 during the (in)famous Stand Wars. JW was perhaps stubbornly defending the ferrous approach. These were the good old days though before cloth-eared objectivist pollution/stifling of such discussion. Everyone involved in these sometimes rather fierce battles believed that stands made a significant difference but the arguments were actually over clearly audible differences of sonic presentation and the likely causes.

DSJR
01-06-2010, 13:23
I think it depends how much moxious mixtures had been taken beforehand :lolsign:

Joe
01-06-2010, 13:27
Does steel sound better than iron, or vice-versa?

DSJR
01-06-2010, 13:37
There must be a slight difference, but as it looks like noone bothered to find out what it was, it'll remain buried in folklore sadly...

Anyway, there's only ONE person out of the six billion or so who can make Mana stands work properly and his name is VUK I understand. All else is gaslight apparently...

Marco
01-06-2010, 13:50
Hi Joe,

It's not really about iron vs. (non-magnetic) stainless steel, in terms of their respective 'sonic signatures'. It's about one material being magnetic, and the other not.


There must be a slight difference, but as it looks like noone bothered to find out what it was, it'll remain buried in folklore sadly...


The difference is far from slight, Dave. When a large magnetic field has been removed from surrounding your equipment, strangling its sound in the process, the circuitry inside 'breathes a huge sigh of relief' (as it were). I've used both angle-iron and stainless steel Mana, so I know how fundamental the sonic improvement of the latter is.

I mean, no serious hi-fi manufacturer these days would use a ferrous metal case to house their equipment inside, would they? ;)

Well the same applies wherever you locate your equipment............ You want it to be in a ferrous metals-free environment.

DNM discovered this years ago, hence why they used acrylic for all their cases. Anything made of ferrous metals next to your equipment is very bad news, amigo!

If you've got anything like that near your system, try moving it out of the way, and listen to the sound open up, bigtime!!

Marco.

DSJR
01-06-2010, 13:55
Absolutely!

Marco
02-06-2010, 10:57
Hi Tom,


I wish I had a stainless Mana rack.I wonder why JW stuck with the angled iron so long before going to stainless right at the very end? I still have my Radio Shack bulk tape deguasser-I was wondering if "demagnetizing" my angled iron 5 tier prior to listening would offer some temporary benefit akin to the stainless Mana ?-What do you think Marco?

As Steve has said, I don't think that would work. You obviously enjoy your system, so I wouldn't worry about your Mana stands being made from angle-iron.

When I used the angle-iron versions, my view was that the sonic benefits offered by the Mana design completely outweighed any negatives of the (magnetic) ferrous effect. That's absolutely true!

Therefore, console yourself instead with the fact you've still got one of the best equipment supports ever made, and as such, a system that likely outperforms those belonging to other people who have their equipment sat on an inferior stand or an old sideboard ;)

Marco.

Steve Toy
02-06-2010, 11:23
My preamp is in a ferrous case but that can be remedied...

Joe
02-06-2010, 12:08
When I used the angle-iron versions, my view was that the sonic benefits offered by the Mana design completely outweighed any negatives of the ferrous effect. That's absolutely true!


But surely stainless steel is also ferrous, or am I not understanding something?

Rare Bird
02-06-2010, 12:51
Therefore, console yourself instead with the fact you've still got one of the best equipment supports ever made, and as such, a system that likely outperforms those belonging to other people who have their equipment sat on an inferior stand or an old sideboard ;)



I don't listern to my sideboard just the item sat on it, but i do have a nice piece of Granite under the item to make it look pretty! thats all that matters aint it? :lolsign:


But surely stainless steel is also ferrous, or am I not understanding something?

Yes but it does'nt contain Iron hence non magnetic

Joe
02-06-2010, 13:05
Yes but it does'nt contain Iron hence non magnetic

According to the British Stainless Steel Association:

'Stainless steel is an alloy of Iron with a minimum of 10.5% Chromium'

I'm an arts graduate, and my last chemistry lesson was about 40 years ago, so forgive the stupidity

Rare Bird
02-06-2010, 13:21
According to the British Stainless Steel Association:

'Stainless steel is an alloy of Iron with a minimum of 10.5% Chromium'

I'm an arts graduate, and my last chemistry lesson was about 40 years ago, so forgive the stupidity

Stainless needs the chromium to keep it's nice appearance.But at the end of the days it's not magnetic thats all that matters.

Steve Toy
02-06-2010, 14:13
There exists magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steel. Marco's Mana is non-magnetic.

Marco
02-06-2010, 14:38
Indeed :)

Btw, Steve, I didn't realise your preamp was housed in a ferrous case. I thought Anthony would've known better than to do that.....

How long have you known, dude? You could've got it sorted the last time your pre was at Anthony's. You know the negative effect, sonically, of ferrous metals all too well!

That's something you need to sort out A.S.A.P, as it'll be doing the sound of your system no favours whatsoever, despite it currently performing very well indeed :cool:

Marco.

Steve Toy
02-06-2010, 15:31
I've been aware of it for some time and even discussed re-casing the preamp with Anthony at some stage. It'll be part of the next phase along with remote control operation.