Would a Nagaoka MP 500 be wasted on a stock SL1210

[Elephantears]

A friend recently acquired a new Nagaoka MP500 for me on a visit to Japan and I'm trying to decide what to do with it. My idea was that it would be perfect if I move to a Croft pre-amp in my main system, but that hasn't happened yet. An alternative in the meantime would be to use it in my second system, which has a stock SL1210. However I'm currently using a Grado Platinum, which is probably as good as the system needs.

My two decks are as follows;

1. LP12/Lingo/Ittok/ATT33EV into TE Microgroove Plus into Unico Pre/DM into Harbeth C7's.

2. SL1210/standard arm/Grado Ref Platinum into Onix 21S into Linn M109's.

If I were to use the Nagaoka in system 2, would I really need to upgrade the deck to make it worthwhile? If so, what would allow the deck to do it justice?

[Marco]

Hi Andrew,

Probably some mods to the stock Techy arm. A complete rewire, from Johnny at Audio Origami, including fitting a Sumiko headshell, sorts a lot out of what is wrong with the Technics arm.

The Nagaoka is a superb cartridge. I've heard it outperform some rather exotic moving coil cartridges, in the right T/T and system! ;)

Have you carried out any mods to your Techy, or is it completely stock? If so, there are fundamental things you should do, over and above rewiring the arm, before fitting a cartridge, such as the Nagaoka, and expecting to hear anything like its true potential.

If you feel that I can advice further, just ask! :cool:

Marco.

[Elephantears]

Hi Marco, no I've done no mods. I like the idea of a rewire first. And I'd get some new feet. I'm not sure I want to start upgrading the psu as yet, but I'm not sure.

I'm potentially making a lot of changes in both systems, but don't want to make rash moves. I think it might be interesting to gradually take the SL1210 to a point where it might realistically give my LP12 a run for its money. But alternatively I might just keep it simple and put the Nagaoka on the LP12 through a Micro 25R. I've always really liked the AT33EV, which is why I'm a bit apprehensive about moving away from it, but if I get the Croft pre in my main system I will really want to utilise that phono stage.

Do you think the Nagaoka would retain the kind of neutrality and precision I'm used to with the AT33?

[RobbieGong]

Marco's right. Most of the Techies have cabling through the arm that is pretty basic to put it mildly (MY first Techie was the MK2). The MK5g being the exception with Oxygen free copper cable running through the arm as well as gold plated RCA's. I now have the 5G with KAB fluid damper and it works a treat with Ortofon 2M Black on board which is a very good cart indeed - Good luck :)

[hifi_dave]

Words is words. You have both cartridges, can't you just move them around and hear what they do in your system ? Wouldn't take more than a few minutes and then you will know for sure.

[Marco]

Hi Andrew,


Hi Marco, no I've done no mods. I like the idea of a rewire first. And I'd get some new feet. I'm not sure I want to start upgrading the psu as yet, but I'm not sure.


No worries, the latter is a big move and something that you can consider later.

Rewiring the arm and fitting a better headshell, such as the Sumiko, is a sensible course of action, given what you're doing with your T/Ts. New feet would also be a good move. The Vantage ones are said to offer excellent sound-per-pound value. I'd also suggest that a new mat, if you're still using the stock rubber one, is mandatory.

There is, however, a vast choice in that area! Again, Vantage offer a good cost-effective mat solution.


I'm potentially making a lot of changes in both systems, but don't want to make rash moves. I think it might be interesting to gradually take the SL1210 to a point where it might realistically give my LP12 a run for its money.


Depending on what it is you like about the LP12 (or dislike about it), you'll either find that easy or almost impossible, so just be sure what it is want and how to achieve it, before ploughing money into either of your T/Ts.


But alternatively I might just keep it simple and put the Nagaoka on the LP12 through a Micro 25R. I've always really liked the AT33EV, which is why I'm a bit apprehensive about moving away from it, but if I get the Croft pre in my main system I will really want to utilise that phono stage.


I'd say that, as far as MM carts go, the MP500 is about as refined as it gets, although a cartridge like the AT33EV will always have the edge on filigree detailing and overal finesse, simply because you're hearing the inherent presentational differences between moving coil and moving magnet cartridges. The former, due to the nature of their construction, will always be more subtle and refined, in terms of their musical delivery.

However, the hard-wired all-valve MM stages in Croft preamps are superb, and will really show what a cartridge like the MP500 is capable of, so if you sort out the arm on your Techy and lightly modify the T/T, as I've advised, you shouldn't miss the talents of the AT too much! :cool:

Marco.

[chelsea]

Stick the other cart on and see how it sounds.

[Elephantears]

I'd say that, as far as MM carts go, the MP500 is about as refined as it gets, although a cartridge like the AT33EV will always have the edge on filigree detailing and overal finesse, simply because you're hearing the inherent presentational differences between moving coil and moving magnet cartridges. The former, due to the nature of their construction, will always be more subtle and refined, in terms of their musical delivery.

However, the hard-wired all-valve MM stages in Croft preamps are superb, and will really show what a cartridge like the MP500 is capable of, so if you sort out the arm on your Techy and lightly modify the T/T, as I've advised, you shouldn't miss the talents of the AT too much! :cool:

Marco.

Ok, so I might be expecting too much of the MP500 to have MC-like refinement. I'm yet to know what a good MM brings to the party that my AT33EV might lack. But I take your point that the Croft phono stage will offset what I lose my switching from MC; that would be my hope.

The reason I haven't just stuck the Nagaoka on the Techy for an experiment yet is that I feel its probably too good for my second system. As soon as I use it, its value plummets, so I want to keep it as a mint new cart until I'm sure I have a proper place for it.

I think realistically it should be on my LP12. I don't share many people's problems with the LP12. Mine is well set-up and on a wall-shelf, and the only issue I have the classic upper-bass hump, but that's as much a room as a deck issue for me.

So really it comes down to whether I feel I can make the transition to MM. I know what will happen though - if I take the AT33EV off the LP12 I'll end up putting it on the 1210! I like it too much to sell.