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ursus262
21-04-2012, 16:50
Has anyone tried tilting speakers backwards slightly? I am interested to learn of experiences of having done this.

Dave

Wakefield Turntables
21-04-2012, 16:53
If you look at some of the newer designs you'll see that they seem to be built to tilt backwards, its more apparent if you look in some of the hifi mags.

Reid Malenfant
21-04-2012, 16:58
It's more to do with time aligning a tweeter that is mounted above a bass/mid unit than anything, the voicecoil of the bass/mid unit will be further back than the tweeter - getting them in the same vertical plane helps with crossover integration.

However if the tweeter is below the height of your ears at the listening position it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea anyway :)

Macca
21-04-2012, 17:03
It's more to do with time aligning a tweeter that is mounted above a bass/mid unit than anything, the voicecoil of the bass/mid unit will be further back than the tweeter - getting them in the same vertical plane helps with crossover integration.

:)

They may say that in the literature but I suspect the main reason is for visual appeal. Just sloping the baffle backwards is a pretty crude method of time-alignment as I understand it, anyway. If they wanted to properly time-align a stepped baffle would be loads better but it looks ugly.

Reid Malenfant
21-04-2012, 17:07
Actually modern drivers are pretty much omnidirectional in the bands they are used in, tipping a baffle through say 10 degrees won't effect how they sound apart from they should integrate better.

Putting steps in a baffle is so Leak 2075 & yesteryear :eyebrows: Apart from the effects of diffraction which will be increased due to all those lumps in the way :(

Macca
21-04-2012, 17:12
Well, everything's a compromise.;)..There was a DCM 3 way speaker that time aligned with no baffle at all, just the drivers mounted on a frame. Think someone on this site has/had some.

Would seem to me that if the speaker isn't designed to be tilted it will sound worse/different or not as intended by the maker, anyway. A suck it and see experiment.

Reid Malenfant
21-04-2012, 17:16
Yes, no baffle = no problem :) Just align the voice coils :eyebrows:

This is another reason I like an active system as the delays can be done accurately with electronics, with no need to angle or step the baffle, it remains nice & smooth :)

Macca
21-04-2012, 17:20
Yes - one of the advantages of DSP is you tweak all those parameters by pushing buttons instead of the hard, mechanical method. I've been reading up:eyebrows:

The Grand Wazoo
21-04-2012, 17:37
I've occasionally tried this in the past with one or two speakers. Some it's been of benefit with & others not. My SD Acoustics OBS floor standers snapped into holographic imagery mode when you lifted the fronts up about an inch & a half.

Heybrook used to sell a sort of wedge to place under their HB2 stand mounters to raise the front off the stand. That made a big difference.

YNWaN
21-04-2012, 17:43
I've tried this a number of times. Manufacturers who do this usually cite the benefit as time aligning the drive units (placing the front face of the bass and tweeter voice-coils in the same vertical plane). However, what they don't mention is that you are also listening to the drive units hugely off-axis and this is likely to have greater sonic impact than any benefit from time alignment (particularly with the tweeter).

I haven't liked it with the speakers I have tried it with.

The Grand Wazoo
21-04-2012, 18:19
...........what they don't mention is that you are also listening to the drive units hugely off-axis and this is likely to have greater sonic impact than any benefit from time alignment....

Well, that could be the case if you don't arrange yourself, or them so as to be on-axis.

YNWaN
21-04-2012, 19:12
You may need a very tall chair to do as you suggest - then the drive units wont be time aligned relative to where you are actually sitting.

The Grand Wazoo
21-04-2012, 19:20
...or shorter stands

YNWaN
21-04-2012, 20:08
Well then the floor boundary will impact upon the bass.

The point is though, if you reposition either you, or the speaker, so that your ears are now back on axis with the drivers, they will no longer be time aligned, which rather defeats the point of leaning them back in the first place!

There's no free lunch here; as stated earlier, by another poster, no matter how you look at it, tilting the speakers back to achieve driver time alignment is a clumsy technique.

ursus262
21-04-2012, 20:25
Thanks guys for your input. I'm having doubts if it will be worth it anyway. At the moment, I am pleased with my speakers as they are but I always look for ways of improving things..

The Grand Wazoo
21-04-2012, 21:10
Thing is, it's not necessary for a theory to fit the practice - if it improves how you perceive the sound, then it works. I never did my experiments based on some theory about 'time alignment' or anything else.
As I said, it has sometimes worked for me, sometimes not - I didn't ascribe it to anything in particular.

Dave, try it - it will cost you nothing and you may learn something.

northwest
21-04-2012, 21:23
Thanks guys for your input. I'm having doubts if it will be worth it anyway. At the moment, I am pleased with my speakers as they are but I always look for ways of improving things..

Sticking a paperback book under the front of each of your speakers is not really an expansive experiment is it? Afterwards you could even read the book, whilst playing some music. I could think of worse things to do:)

realysm42
21-04-2012, 21:44
It sounds odd to me that you should have to do this to get the best from your speakers; aren't the managacturers missing a tirck by making you have to tweak?

ursus262
21-04-2012, 21:46
I'll tell you what... I'll have a go tomorrow as it'll only take a few minutes, and report back :)

spendorman
22-04-2012, 08:39
B&W made special stands for the DM2 and DM2a that tilted the speakers slightly upwards, this was in the 1970's

Found a pic:

http://www.hifiworks.co.uk/images_fullsize/dm2e.jpg

Rare Bird
22-04-2012, 13:02
I love to set my stereo up in a way most plonkers would look down upon, just prooves how much BS their is in this hobby :lol:

Macca
22-04-2012, 13:14
I love to set my stereo up in a way most plonkers would look down upon, just prooves how much BS their is in this hobby :lol:

I heard that you use surplus reel to reel decks as speaker stands and that your amps are suspended from the ceiling in hammocks woven from Nordost Gold Dawn :eyebrows:

realysm42
24-04-2012, 07:20
I power my amp with my speakers.

spendorman
24-04-2012, 08:58
I remember that many years ago, in the Science Museum they had a pair of Quad ESL 57's hung upside down from the ceiling on thread, possibly nylon.

northwest
24-04-2012, 15:14
I remember that many years ago, in the Science Museum they had a pair of Quad ESL 57's hung upside down from the ceiling on thread, possibly nylon.

So, which way is the "right way up" then?

Very confusing no?

:eyebrows:

spendorman
24-04-2012, 15:30
So, which way is the "right way up" then?

Very confusing no?

:eyebrows:

Well, if used with a Quad 303 and that is inverting, should be OK. lol