Fedex/HM Revenue & Customs rip-off. A cautionary tale

[activexp]

I recently bought a lovely aluminium amplifier case from Chinese Ebayer
anitaydavid at a cost of £22.88 + £16.88 economy shipping, £39.76 in total. It was
delivered quite quickly and well packed with a document holder attached. On
the customs declaration form, the item was described as an 'Amp Case' and a
'sample' with a value of 25USD. All good so far.

Two weeks later and out of the blue I received an invoice from Fedex for
£30.06 made up of VAT at £20.06 plus £10 admin charge. Well I nearly fell
through the floor!

The paperwork clearly shows how they arrived at the VAT figure: Freight
Charges £78.87 plus 25USD (£15.95) = £94.82 plus a 'VAT Value Adjustment' of £5.50 making a total value of £100.32, a nice round figure for VAT at 20%.

Fedex say that the Freight Charges are calculated using their tariff for the
sender's location, in this case 2.25Kg from China to UK. To me this does not
make sense and stinks of rip-off. And what about the 'VAT Value Adjustment'
of £5.50? Presumably they decided that the case was worth more than £15.95 or 25USD.

I think this is outrageous but there's little I can do about it. From now
on I'll think twice before buying anything on Ebay from China.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/544710_10150961127744832_528289831_12944825_134359 7195_n.jpg

[anthonyTD]

I totaly agree,
its realy frustrating, i get component suppliers in china regularly asking me to deal with them, but as you have found, their prices are great its the dreaded VAT and customs that kill it!!!:steam:
A...

[StanleyB]

I do a lot of business with FEDEX on a yearly basis ( £10K p.a. at least), and I don't recognize those figures.
1. What is the £78.87 freight charge for?
Why was the parcel with FEDEX?

You paid for economical shipping is normally sent via EMS. So I am puzzled as to why it was sent via FEDEX.

You can challenge the cost. FEDEX messed up the cost. They pay Customs and reclaim the money from you. So if they submitted the incorrect amount to Customs it is their fault.

Give them a call and speak to their accounts department.

[activexp]

According to Fedex the shipment was marked 'Bill Recipient' but the seller denies this. Amongst the paperwork was a form marked 'Pro Forma' with details of the shipment. The relevant ones are:

Purpose of shipment - Sample
Description of Goods - Amp Box
Total Value - 25USD
Weight - 2.5 KGS
Terms of Sale - FOB/FCA. I'm unclear what this means other than Free on Board. :scratch:

At the moment I'm waiting for Fedex to get back to me regarding the £78.87 freight charge.

[StanleyB]

Ask FEDEX for documentary proof that the shipment was marked Bill Recipient.

[anthonyTD]

According to Fedex the shipment was marked 'Bill Recipient' but the seller denies this. Amongst the paperwork was a form marked 'Pro Forma' with details of the shipment. The relevant ones are:

Purpose of shipment - Sample
Description of Goods - Amp Box
Total Value - 25USD
Weight - 2.5 KGS
Terms of Sale - FOB/FCA. I'm unclear what this means other than Free on Board. :scratch:

At the moment I'm waiting for Fedex to get back to me regarding the £78.87 freight charge.
Re-looking at that lot i agree with Stan, that does seem realy excessive.
I would also be inclined to chalenge them about it.
A...

[sq225917]

Steve, you should have paid VAT on total cost of goods which is cost of item + all shipping fees, that's the rule.

You should have paid £8 VAT (20% of £40 or thereabouts) and the £10 handling fee that they are allowed to levy for pre-paying your vat to HMRC. Anything else is bullshit, they can't just decide the item is worth more than the stated value. You should have refused the bill.

[Macca]

It is not FedEx who decide on the value of the goods. If you can't get anywhere with this send me a PM I will see what I can do.

[northwest]

I think this is outrageous but there's little I can do about it.

Not paying it is an option.
Martin will sort it for you I am sure.


A cautionary tale

Welcome to Far Eastern Roulette! :-)

[activexp]

It is not FedEx who decide on the value of the goods. If you can't get anywhere with this send me a PM I will see what I can do.


Thanks Martin, might have to take you up on that.

[Macca]

No probs, same goes for any member who is having issues they cannot get resolved. I can't make any promises, though - it may be that you have been charged correctly.

[Effem]

I used to buy a lot of goods from overseas and in general the import charges were usually reasonable. I think it is Fedex who are taking the mickey.

HMRC were pretty good too provided they saw and understood the perceived value of the item and it didn't conflict with what the waybill stated. If the label said "Amplifier case" then HMRC's scanning equipment would have seen it was an empty case.

I bought a DAC from Argentina once that had a hole drilled into the mains transformer rendering it useless. I rang the customs depot at Derby and spoke to the officer that handled the parcel who said she remembers the package which came in via Frankfurt. If they had opened the parcel for examination them it would be labelled as such and as for drilling holes they don't need to as their scanners are more than capable of looking inside a transformer. Even so, they always pay for any "examination damage" because it is no skin off their nose. She then contacted Frankfurt customs who also denied drilling it, so it could only be an Argentinian who wanted to even the score for Las Malvinas.

[activexp]

Interesting story Frank. Did you ever follow it up with the guy in Argentina?

[Effem]

He denied all knowledge of the drilling and was probably innocent. I fitted a new mains transformer myself in the end and it did work, although the rest of the DAC wasn't all that good anyway. The PCB tracks were dreadful to say the least :(

[Macca]

I used to buy a lot of goods from overseas and in general the import charges were usually reasonable. I think it is Fedex who are taking the mickey.

.

Frank, I think your underestimating the scale of the operation just a little. If every invoice was calculated or adjusted manually have you any idea how many people they would need to employ? It is all automated, no-one sits there adding twenty quid to an invoice to see if they can get away with it.

[StanleyB]

What has happened in this case is that somebody somewhere in FEDEX ticked the wrong box with regards to who pays the delivery charge. So FEDEX calculated their collection and delivery charge, which is substantially higher than if the sender pays for the delivery.
Once delivery was set as a collection/delivery charge, every other cost started rocketing.

In cases (no pun intended) like this, UK/EU buyers should ask the seller in the Far East to make it clear who he is sending the goods with. From experience I avoid DHL like the plague. I use FEDEX for valuable cargo, and EMS for anything else.

[Macca]

What has happened in this case is that somebody somewhere in FEDEX ticked the wrong box with regards to who pays the delivery charge. .

Possible -but more likely is that the seller booked on line and selected that option himself, possibly not realising the consequences.

[activexp]

Possible -but more likely is that the seller booked on line and selected that option himself, possibly not realising the consequences.

The seller is adamant that he never sends anything as 'Bill Recipient' but it's possible he made a mistake. :(

[bobbasrah]

Sounds like the problem lies with the Courier, and it is up to them to prove to you otherwise IMHO

[zanash]

yes had similar ..issues
its always with far east items and always with the known suspect courires
as people have elluded to

strikes me that its scam rather than cockup ..just happening too many times.

[Effem]

Hi Pete, where you been hiding lately? :eyebrows:

[Si74]

I've had way too many hassles with Fedex, they think they are a law unto themselves and their customer service is appalling ( being generous it's non existent, the Hitler youth would probably have been more understanding!

Parcel shipment from California, arranged and paid for by me - hassled my mate in California for 6 months to pay the shipping and nothing either he nor I could do to change their minds, even though I had the invoice which I'd paid.
I even phoned the states a few times and left a few 'bitches' without a name.

Sold an LP 12 to Thailand and they tried to shaft the guy for over 300 quid in total which was over 50% of the cost. He eventually got another agent to procure it for 120 import duties and then the bold Fedex try to charge 70 quid/day for storage.
Shower of robbing b'stards and avoid the like the plague.:steam:

ps. I've never had a parcel from them where the shock absorber indicator? wasn't red. Luckily the very expensive footballs were all triple boxed and had only burst through the two inners:lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

I have only ever had one item out of well over 1600 ebay buys shipped to me via Fedex :) It was a real nightmare! If got delivered to a house of the same number in the same road about 150 miles away :eek:

After a whole shed load of phone calls & a thankfully 100% honest recipient of my package it eventually got to me & in one piece.

I'd never use Fedex again :rolleyes:

[Macca]

I have only ever had one item out of well over 1600 ebay buys shipped to me via Fedex :) It was a real nightmare! If got delivered to a house of the same number in the same road about 150 miles away :eek:

:

Because whoever shipped it to you booked the wrong address (i.e postcode) for delivery. That is the only way that can happen, seen it a few times.

[StanleyB]

I have had very few problems with FEDEX compared to DHL and TNT. Parcelforce has also been quite good.

[Macca]

Mods can we re-name this thread as 'Bash FedEx with incomplete anecdotal evidence which is probably wrong' ?

Thanks :rolleyes:

[killie99]

Because whoever shipped it to you booked the wrong address (i.e postcode) for delivery. That is the only way that can happen, seen it a few times.

Not true.

I've had a laptop delivered 2 streets away from me and it was only the honesty of the house owner (their son had signed for it even though it had my name and my full correct address on it) that led to me getting the laptop. When I phoned Citylink to say I hadn't signed for the item even though it was showing as 'delivered' on their website they told me someone in my house MUST have signed for it. Guess what the response was I got when I phoned them the next day to tell them what had happened? They couldn't give a $hit. I've never used them since.

2nd time I got a phone call from a driver who was in THE WRONG TOWN about 10 miles from me to tell me the person at the house wouldn't accept the delivery (I think it was business post who were the courier that time). Item got delivered about an hour later and it was correctly addressed.

[Reid Malenfant]

Because whoever shipped it to you booked the wrong address (i.e postcode) for delivery. That is the only way that can happen, seen it a few times.
Martin, my full & correct address was on the package, postcode, city & city area - the whole lot :scratch:

[Clothears]

If the sender has issued a pro-forma invoice showing shipping terms as FOB then that means that the freight and carriage charges are for the account of the recipient.

VAT is payable on the shipment, and Fedex have to pay that to HMC on your behalf. They then have to recover that money back from you. That costs money to administer, hence the service charge. You can argue about the level of service charge but Fedex are not unique in that respect.

[activexp]

If the sender has issued a pro-forma invoice showing shipping terms as FOB then that means that the freight and carriage charges are for the account of the recipient.

Fedex have not billed me for any freight charges, only the VAT based on their tariff for shipping from China to UK (£78.87 :mental:)


VAT is payable on the shipment, and Fedex have to pay that to HMC on your behalf. They then have to recover that money back from you. That costs money to administer, hence the service charge. You can argue about the level of service charge but Fedex are not unique in that respect.

Quite true and I have no objection to paying the VAT on the amount I actually paid for the goods. I've send Fedex a copy of the actual eBay invoice but so far I've not heard anything from them :(

[StanleyB]

VAT is payable on the shipment, and Fedex have to pay that to HMC on your behalf. They then have to recover that money back from you. That costs money to administer, hence the service charge. You can argue about the level of service charge but Fedex are not unique in that respect.
The service charge is £10.50 or 2.5% of the value of the VAT payable, whichever is greatest.

[MikeMusic]

I've send Fedex a copy of the actual eBay invoice but so far I've not heard anything from them :(

FedEx used to be excellent and were a massive improvement over UPS in 1999.
Service was good, prices were good. They were a favourite supplier for sure
Steadily they became less and less.
We used to spend up to £100k a year with them and at the end they treated us like we were a PITA punter.
A few mess ups and no satisfactory answers and we moved. We are now with a company that wants our business

[sq225917]

We use UPS for all our business stuff, we ship maybe 5000 items a year from $10 up to a few thousand. They haven't lost or damaged anything in 3 years, and we've shipped a ,ot of surf boards which are notoriously easy to feck up.

[anthonyTD]

hi all,
both Fedex and UPS can have their bad days, i have had a few heavy items damaged by both going overseas [power amps in flight cases etc] the diffrence [in my experience]between Fedex and UPS is, when Fedex admits to being at fault they pay up, with UPS they will try everything in the book to NOT pay up, both companies have a similar policy [apparently]which is, any parcel sent with them must be able to withstand a metre drop! So, that means they think its ok to drop a 50kg power amp in its own custom made flight case off the back of a truck!:steam:
Makes my blood boil thinking about it.:(
Rant over :)
Seriously though, i dont think it matters which service you use, your still at the mercy of the staff at the depots, and on the vans, and if their having a bad day well...
A...

[Macca]

both companies have a similar policy [apparently]which is, any parcel sent with them must be able to withstand a metre drop! So, that means they think its ok to drop a 50kg power amp in its own custom made flight case off the back of a truck!:steam:
...

That is something of a non-sequitor, Anthony ;). I must say I am not aware of any official policy re 1 metre drop survivability.

IME, which is considerable, 90% (at least) of damages are due to inadequate packaging. I can only speak for the UK side of the opearation but can assure you that even these claims get paid providing the item is covered in the first place.

I had a client who was shipping stone and marble statues and had a massive rate of breakages, they couldn't understand why. They sent me some photos of their packaging - a flimsy plywood crate, nailed shut with a few handfuls of polysteryne chips thrown in. The statues weighed between 70 and 120 kilos!
I gave the a bit of advise re packaging - result, damages dropped off to nothing.

Pack it properly, label it properly (with return address and contact number) and it will almost always get there unscathed. But make sure your insurance cover is adequate all the same :)

[MikeMusic]

We use UPS for all our business stuff, we ship maybe 5000 items a year from $10 up to a few thousand. They haven't lost or damaged anything in 3 years, and we've shipped a ,ot of surf boards which are notoriously easy to feck up.

I think UPS have got better, but have been unimpressed at some of the deliveries from Xerox via UPS. Rough handling for sure.
I designed a super tough, double thickness, triple lined box for export and overnight - plus we pack it we no airspace or movement within. This is for print, mostly bound in some way

[sq225917]

We actually pack our brittle stuff with space to move, but with the contact points reinforced with sacrificial packaging.

[MikeMusic]

We only have large lumps of paper, paced tight, rigid even.
I invented the "Stand on" test some years ago
If you are not sure about the packing stand on it. If the box stays solid then you win !
:)

[MikeMusic]

That is something of a non-sequitor, Anthony ;). I must say I am not aware of any official policy re 1 metre drop survivability.

IME, which is considerable, 90% (at least) of damages are due to inadequate packaging. I can only speak for the UK side of the opearation but can assure you that even these claims get paid providing the item is covered in the first place.

I had a client who was shipping stone and marble statues and had a massive rate of breakages, they couldn't understand why. They sent me some photos of their packaging - a flimsy plywood crate, nailed shut with a few handfuls of polysteryne chips thrown in. The statues weighed between 70 and 120 kilos!
I gave the a bit of advise re packaging - result, damages dropped off to nothing.

Pack it properly, label it properly (with return address and contact number) and it will almost always get there unscathed. But make sure your insurance cover is adequate all the same :)
I had my eyes opened many years ago when I went to see Sharp in Manchester and saw so many of our boxes delivered by overnight ripped to pieces and obviously mis handled. We upped our game massively for packaging from then on

[anthonyTD]

That is something of a non-sequitor, Anthony ;). I must say I am not aware of any official policy re 1 metre drop survivability.

IME, which is considerable, 90% (at least) of damages are due to inadequate packaging. I can only speak for the UK side of the opearation but can assure you that even these claims get paid providing the item is covered in the first place.

I had a client who was shipping stone and marble statues and had a massive rate of breakages, they couldn't understand why. They sent me some photos of their packaging - a flimsy plywood crate, nailed shut with a few handfuls of polysteryne chips thrown in. The statues weighed between 70 and 120 kilos!
I gave the a bit of advise re packaging - result, damages dropped off to nothing.

Pack it properly, label it properly (with return address and contact number) and it will almost always get there unscathed. But make sure your insurance cover is adequate all the same :)

Hi Martin,
Fair comment,
As i have said I cannot say if this is true policy or not but i can assure you' that was what i was told when i rang up to complain about damage to one of the shipments, Also, when i have sent pairs of monoblocks out to the USA, each in their own individual cases made from [reinforced] 9mm birch ply they have suffered damage that can only have been caused by one flight case landing end on top of the other so hard that the ball corner of the one case has gone through the top of the other!:steam:
One paticular case [recently] a UK customer purchased a second hand power amp from a customer in germany, the customer in germany sent the amp in its original flight case with all original packing straight to me first to have the mains transformer changed for Uk voltage spec, well, when it arrived it had suffered so badly in transit that the casework of the amp inside was completely trashed and the mains transformer had been ripped from its mountings and had been boucing around inside hanging just by its cables.
UPS tried all ways to wriggle out of not accepting liability, even going as far as saying that either the customer who had sent it had packed it already damaged or i had done it when it arived :scratch::rolleyes:
Anyway, the guy decided to take them to court and i got paid for all the repairs in full, And not only did they damage that paticular one on first entry, but when they took it away to be "inspected" at their depot, it came back to me with even more damage and it was upside down in its case :steam:
I have plenty more examples of both Fedex and UPS incompitence!
That does not mean however that they dont get it right a lot of the time, but be warned, it will depend greatly on the mood of the transporter on the day[who ever it be] wether your parcel gets to you in one piece or a million.
And in a lot of cases you could pack it in a bomb proof casket and they will still find a way to break it.:(
A...

[MikeMusic]

Hi Martin,
Fair comment,
As i have said I cannot say if this is true policy or not but i can assure you' that was what i was told when i rang up to complain about damage to one of the shipments, Also, when i have sent pairs of monoblocks out to the USA, each in their own individual cases made from [reinforced] 9mm birch ply they have suffered damage that can only have been caused by one flight case landing end on top of the other so hard that the ball corner of the one case has gone through the top of the other!:steam:
One paticular case [recently] a UK customer purchased a second hand power amp from a customer in germany, the customer in germany sent the amp in its original flight case with all original packing straight to me first to have the mains transformer changed for Uk voltage spec, well, when it arrived it had suffered so badly in transit that the casework of the amp inside was completely trashed and the mains transformer had been ripped from its mountings and had been boucing around inside hanging just by its cables.
UPS tried all ways to wriggle out of not accepting liability, even going as far as saying that either the customer who had sent it had packed it already damaged or i had done it when it arived :scratch::rolleyes:
Anyway, the guy decided to take them to court and i got paid for all the repairs in full, And not only did they damage that paticular one on first entry, but when they took it away to be "inspected" at their depot, it came back to me with even more damage and it was upside down in its case :steam:
I have plenty more examples of both Fedex and UPS incompitence!
That does not mean however that they dont get it right a lot of the time, but be warned, it will depend greatly on the mood of the transporter on the day[who ever it be] wether your parcel gets to you in one piece or a million.
And in a lot of cases you could pack it in a bomb proof casket and they will still find a way to break it.:(
A...
TNT and probably all the others can do just the same.
A thought that could work for some ....
Pack carefully and then strap to a pallet or mini pallet.
Could cost more, but much better chances of arriving in one peice

[Macca]

Well I can't speak for UPS - never worked for them or used them. Now they have bought TNT they will be a much greater presence on the European logistics front, will be interesting to see how that goes for them.

[anthonyTD]

TNT and probably all the others can do just the same.
A thought that could work for some ....
Pack carefully and then strap to a pallet or mini pallet.
Could cost more, but much better chances of arriving in one peice
hi Mik,
I agree, and my rant was not just aimed at those two courier services, and your right as far as the pallet idea, i have sent and received them on pallets and they have survived the journey much better, however, as you also state, its more expensive this way, but if that is the only way heavy and awkward items can survive the evils of the couriers, then its worth the extra cost.
A...

[anthonyTD]

Well I can't speak for UPS - never worked for them or used them. Now they have bought TNT they will be a much greater presence on the European logistics front,
will be interesting to see how that goes for them.

Fingers crossed it will be for the better as far as the customer is concerned.:)
A...

[Clothears]

As an employee of one of the aforementioned courier companies, it does make me smile sometimes when reading some of the uninformed comments on these types of thread on various forums.

I have no doubt about the validity of some of of the examples already mentioned, but I have also got years of first hand experience of the other side of the coin. I personally went to pick up a shipment not so long ago from a customer who was shipping some Monitor Audio floor standers to somewhere in Europe, wrapped in nothing more than brown paper, I kid you not. The shipment was refused, and the customer informed that he needed to pack them much better before we would accept them for shipment. ( I might also add that he had booked this through a middleman, Parcel2Go, and they had told him that the packing would be OK). I have picked up a brand new Sugden amplifier being shipped to the Far East with a declared customs value of £25.00. The list is endless.

Courier companies are a very easy target, but lets not forget the 99.99% of shipments that go without hitch.

[MartinT]

It seems fair to say that we've all had different experiences and possibly the quality of staff at the local depot has a big influence.

I've not had any issues with Fedex, TNT or DHL (Yodel). However, I simply would never again use Parcelforce or Citylink.

[anthonyTD]

As an employee of one of the aforementioned courier companies, it does make me smile sometimes when reading some of the uninformed comments on these types of thread on various forums.

I have no doubt about the validity of some of of the examples already mentioned, but I have also got years of first hand experience of the other side of the coin. I personally went to pick up a shipment not so long ago from a customer who was shipping some Monitor Audio floor standers to somewhere in Europe, wrapped in nothing more than brown paper, I kid you not. The shipment was refused, and the customer informed that he needed to pack them much better before we would accept them for shipment. ( I might also add that he had booked this through a middleman, Parcel2Go, and they had told him that the packing would be OK). I have picked up a brand new Sugden amplifier being shipped to the Far East with a declared customs value of £25.00. The list is endless.

Courier companies are a very easy target, but lets not forget the 99.99% of shipments that go without hitch.
hi Dave,
Of course these companies are dealing with a vast amount of parcels and shipments a day, and its inevitable that a certain percentage will not get to their destination in the same condition it was sent, i dont think any of us are expecting 100% perfection, however, its the way these companies deal with things once a parcel or package gets damaged whilest in their care that realy grates on me, especialy when you have done all that is physicaly posible to safe guard against the item being damaged while being transported in a carefull caring manner.
One of the best ones i had was a few years back now, it was a parcelf**ce driver walking towards me with a parcel in his hands advising me as he handed it over to get my claim form out!:eek::doh::rolleyes::steam:
I kid you not.
Anthony,TD...

[DaveK]

A few days ago I received a pair of £60+ tweeters from China and today got a bill from these rip-off merchants for £15.49 made up of 'Disbursements out of the scope of EU VAT' of £4.99 and 'Clearance Administation Charge' of £10.50
£10.50 to collect a payment of less than £5 !!!! - sheeeesh, is there no appeal against this blatant daylight robbery? :stalks::steam::eek::scratch:
Dave.

[StanleyB]

A few days ago I received a pair of £60+ tweeters from China and today got a bill from these rip-off merchants for £15.49 made up of 'Disbursements out of the scope of EU VAT' of £4.99 and 'Clearance Administation Charge' of £10.50
£10.50 to collect a payment of less than £5 !!!! - sheeeesh, is there no appeal against this blatant daylight robbery? :stalks::steam::eek::scratch:
Dave.
The £10.50 is the clearance fee that FEDEX charges for their service as an agent in dealing with Customs and HMRC on your behalf.
The £4.99 is the charge levied by HMRC in this instance on the goods with respect to VAT they deemed appropriate on goods entering the EU. FEDEX pays that charge for you directly and you then pay them the amount back.
A £10.50 minimum charge for the service FEDEX provides from the moment the item ends up with Customs is a reasonable one I would say. If the parcel doesn't end up with Customs there are no charges payable to FEDEX. They don't charge for delivery to your premises since that has already been paid by the sender, unless you agreed to pay the collection charge from the seller's premises.

[activexp]

It's been a long time coming but Fedex has agreed to refund £12.11 VAT or in other words I've paid the VAT on the actual cost of the goods including shipping and not some arbitrary inflated amount.

This is a satisfactoy outcome apart from the £10 admin charge but nothing can be done about that.

[MikeMusic]

Good result
The admin charge is a PITA but no way around it

[MartinT]

Well done, Steve, on winning some compensation.