Did Sony Make Great Speakers?

[Hypnotoad]

I know what your saying Sony couldn't make great speakers could they? Just like Technics couldn't make a great turntable, right? Wrong on both counts.

I was at a friends the other day and he is a speaker hoarder, he has over ten pairs, mainly a/d/s monitors and floor standers. He had this pair of Sony SS-M7 speakers, I asked him for an audition, he gladly obliged.

I was taken aback by how good these things are, if you had blindfolded me and told me they were Sony's I would have laughed out loud.

Apparently Sony wanted to get into the high end speaker market and gave an open check book to Dan Anagnos and respected speaker designer.

From Stereophile on the bigger SS-M9:

A key aspect of the design is the cabinet. It needs to be narrow in the region of the tweeter and midrange unit in order to optimize treble dispersion, hence imaging. However, it also needs to be wide enough to accommodate one or more woofers capable of moving sufficient air to achieve good bass extension. The result is a narrow pyramid—fabricated from MDF, veneered on both sides, and filled with polyester fiber—that is considerable deeper than it is wide. A number of horizontal figure-8 braces provide rigidity, and bituminous pads mop up any stray resonances that remain. The front baffle is complex, with four separate facets. Completing the picture is an excellent grille made of black material stretched over a wire frame to minimize any acoustic obstruction in the vicinity of the upper-frequency drive-units.

They just fill the room with glorious sound that does not appear to emanate from the speakers at all. Instruments occupy there own space and voices are natural like the person is in the room with you.

I am going to get a pair of these, nothing I have heard for anything like the cost of a good pair of these comes close.

But I will expect some funny looks from snobby people who see the Sony badge, that's until they hear them.

So Sony did make great speakers.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//505/Sony_SS-M7_Speakers_speaker_system_bookshelf_vintage_ssm7_ ss_m7.jpg

[morris_minor]

They look the business!

Their bigger brother got a page to themselves on the Vintage Knob (http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-M9ED.html) . .

The trouble with the Japanese manufacturers is that most people only know them for their lo to mid-fi stacking systems. The Vintage Knob guy asks why Sony were so reticent to publicise their top end gear.

[Reid Malenfant]

See if you can find yourself a pair of SS-G9 :eyebrows: Nice design those above are, good for imaging & they look to be time aligned as well :)

[RMutt]

Funny, I was only thinking to myself the other day, I wonder why the big Japanese manufacturers do not make speakers that are acclaimed by hi-fi buffs. You would think that with the economies of scale, research departments and the quality of their front end electronics they would beat the small scale, almost cottage industry, European speaker companies hands down. What do they use to test their own CD players etc?

[Ali Tait]

A lot of them probably do make great speakers, they just don't export them.

[AlfaGTV]

They look nice! Like a couple of baby Avalon's!

But i agree on the sometimes very good japanese speakers. I personally had the good fortune to own a pair of Pioneer Prologue 9 from the mid 80's and they were certainly not bad! Now i own a pair of Pioneer CS-530 which are not bad either. These were built on location in Europe, so mine are actually made in Sweden:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pioneer_cs_e530.html

BR /Mike

[chelsea]

I remember technics made some very expensive speakers in the late 70s or early 80s.
£10,000 iicr.

[sq225917]

Sony currently make a very good speaker that got raves at CES this year.

[PaulStewart]

In the late 70s into the early 80s i was Technical Liaison Officer at JVC UK, when I first got the Job I knew they made some high end and pro audio kit, but like most british Hi Fi fans I thought all jap speakers were rubbish. Part of my "empire" was the showroom, and when I first got in there I was amazed to see a wall of speakers the UK company never sold. There was a pair of FB-5 2 way back horns which where the most dynamic speakers I ever heard. Also, there was a set of Tannoy or Altec like co axial studio monitors with a 15" and a horn tweeter, staggeringly good and more besides.

The first really good high end speaker JVC UK sold was the Zero 5, this was a three way with a ribbon speaker, I took a pair to Bronze Records, Chalk Farm Studios were they were used as a reference speaker.

Great kit and a lot of fun developing it, I've just got a pair of the ribbon tweeters on flea bay and they will form partofmy next project.

[jaym481]

I owned a pair of SS-3300s, and wish I'd had the space to keep them. http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-3300.html

[trio leo]

Back in the 80s Sony made an Esprit system,the Pre-amp was £1,600, the mono-bloc power amps were £2,000 each and the speakers were £4,000, which was big bucks in 84.
IMO the power amps were average, the Pre-amp was an absolute gem, but the speakers weren't that good, they had a ribbon tweeter and square honey combed bass drivers.
We never sold any, but the Yamaha NS 1000s sold really well.

regards Al

[The Grand Wazoo]

........ but the speakers weren't that good, they had a ribbon tweeter and square honey combed bass drivers.


They were designated APM - Accurate Pistonic Motion drivers. I think they got quite good reviews in the magazines.
The drivers get foam rot (topical topic with me!) and I don't suppose you can get square surrounds too easily.

[Lodgesound]

Sony's research laboratories in Japan have a pair of Rogers / BBC LS 5/8's as a listening reference.

[Spectral Morn]

In the late 70s into the early 80s i was Technical Liaison Officer at JVC UK, when I first got the Job I knew they made some high end and pro audio kit, but like most british Hi Fi fans I thought all jap speakers were rubbish. Part of my "empire" was the showroom, and when I first got in there I was amazed to see a wall of speakers the UK company never sold. There was a pair of FB-5 2 way back horns which where the most dynamic speakers I ever heard. Also, there was a set of Tannoy or Altec like co axial studio monitors with a 15" and a horn tweeter, staggeringly good and more besides.

The first really good high end speaker JVC UK sold was the Zero 5, this was a three way with a ribbon speaker, I took a pair to Bronze Records, Chalk Farm Studios were they were used as a reference speaker.

Great kit and a lot of fun developing it, I've just got a pair of the ribbon tweeters on flea bay and they will form partofmy next project.

Ahhhh JVC

When I worked in brown goods retailing (started into it about 13 years ago) I could always see wee hints of greatness about JVC. Their micro systems at the time were very good (not as good as Onkyo) but they had a sound that was more about sins of omission rather than commission.

I can't recall the models now :( despite owning a few at the time. The Boom Blaster was an awesome sounding Bazooka shaped cylindrical ghetto blaster that was an awesome sounding thing. I recall they also made lovely tiny speakers a few years ago with drive units made from Saki treated rice paper, awesome apparently.

I own JVC SVHS VCRs and they are very good and an HDS1 which is an SVHS Hard drive twin recorder. The prototype was made of brushed aluminium, beautiful product.

http://img.dooyoo.co.uk/GB_EN/orig/0/1/9/3/0/193095.jpg

JVC Trade Shows were always great fun.

How the mighty have fallen much like Toshiba :(


Regards D S D L

[PaulStewart]

They were designated APM - Accurate Pistonic Motion drivers. I think they got quite good reviews in the magazines.
The drivers get foam rot (topical topic with me!) and I don't suppose you can get square surrounds too easily.

Those Esprit APM speakers were great with the right amp. The JVC M3030, a beefy Amcron or bridged Quad 405s and they would sing. APM was a great idea and paved the way for NXT, another innovation which, in my opinion doesn't quite work.

[hoopsontoast]

Onkyo made some interesting speakers, that never made it over here.
Technics made some lovey stuff as well!
http://audio-database.com/index.html

http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/sb-10000-h.jpg

[spendorman]

In the early 70's Sony re-badged B&W DM1 and DM3. I have only once seen the Sony badged DM1's on ebay.

[istari_knight]

Those Esprit APM speakers were great with the right amp. The JVC M3030, a beefy Amcron or bridged Quad 405s and they would sing. APM was a great idea and paved the way for NXT, another innovation which, in my opinion doesn't quite work.

I've got a pair of APM-22ES mk2 somewhere... Nice speakers with the right system. Very punchy & dynamic but not the last word in fine detail.

Some of them have rubber surrounds (mine do) but for those that have rotted foam they can be repaired : http://homepage2.nifty.com/k-ooki/apm/edge1a.htm

Also had some SS-A1 which were Sony's LS3/5A clone & very nice indeed + some SS-G1 also nice.

Lots of the old Sony speakers are crap but the decent ones are normally made in Germany & use SEAS drivers ;)

[spendorman]

I've got a pair of APM-22ES mk2 somewhere... Nice speakers with the right system. Very punchy & dynamic but not the last word in fine detail.

Some of them have rubber surrounds (mine do) but for those that have rotted foam they can be repaired : http://homepage2.nifty.com/k-ooki/apm/edge1a.htm

Also had some SS-A1 which were Sony's LS3/5A clone & very nice indeed + some SS-G1 also nice.

Lots of the old Sony speakers are crap but the decent ones are normally made in Germany & use SEAS drivers ;)

Just remembered, I have a pair of smallish Sony speakers that came with a small 1970's Sony system. They are not bad, 6 1/2" SEAS and small Peerless paper cone tweeter.

[BTH K10A]

There was also the Sony range of studio monitors. I doubt that any came to these shores.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/SonySpeakers.jpghttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/SonySpeakerDrivers.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/SP_SONY-SEM-1W.jpg

This set of three dismantled monitors came out of the US Sony studios and were sold on ebay. I didn't bid and I was surprised to see they only went for $600.
Despite the shipping costs, I wish I'd bought them for the drivers horns and xovers :doh:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/SonySpeakerComponents.jpg

[snuffbox]

Just noticed these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-SS-7200-AUDIOPHILE-SPEAKERS-WITH-ULM-DRIVERS-REF-12040704?item=221005584851&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7995323858776597429

[The Grand Wazoo]

Not Sony, but I was looking for something in an old HFN/RR today & I came across a review of a pair of Technics speakers - the SB-RX50's that I thought at the time seemed quite interesting.

Technics SB-RX50

http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/speaker/sb-rx50.JPGhttp://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/speaker/sb-rx50(1).JPG

It was a coaxial flat disc diaphragm made up from a series of laminated high tensile skins over an ulta-light rigid honeycomb core. Unlike the Tannoy method of doing dual concentric drivers where there's an element of time delay between the cone and the horn tweeter, these are not only concentric, but planar and time aligned.

The bass driver is essentially a flat annular ring and the tweeter is mounted in the centre gap - a flat 25mm planar driver. It wasn't particularly sensitive but the crossover was very simple. It was quite small (23 litres) but the bass apparently went surprisingly low & the whole thing was supposed to be quite 'British sounding' & best suited to classical music.

From a Gramophone mag. review I've just found:


The SB-RX50 uses a rather different form of driver from anything we have so far described in these columns. It embodies several principles and ideas which we have seen developing, and puts them all together in one ingenious and beautifully engineered drive unit. It is certainly not a cheap loudspeaker and it is not aimed at a cheap market—its target is our quality marques such as the KEF Reference models, Spendors, Rogers, B&Ws and Celestion SLs. If Technics can but persuade the sort of people who buy those makes to give it a fair listen it may well score a few golds.

A glance at the photograph shows a prominent single flat diaphragm drive unit with some sort of central steering wheel device. This in is fact a completely separate flat diaphragm tweeter operating in the top three or four octaves, and its incorporation in that desirable position has called for some ingenious constructional ideas. This is one of those situations where one picture is worth a thousand words and so I originally asked Technics for a photograph of a spectacular cutaway model they have. Unfortunately it was not as revealing as the annotated sectional drawing of the unit (Fig. 1) which we are including so that the details can be studied.

The bass/midrange diaphragm takes the form of a flat ring of a newly developed "cross carbon" material, supported at both the inner and outer edges on the usual type of roll suspension. It is driven at its balance point by a short cone attached to a long voice-coil tube with half-way along it a third suspension, this time of corrugated fabric. The coil diameter is about 60mm, much larger than usual, and the winding substantially overlaps the polepieces of the hefty magnet so that linearity remains good with large excursions. The diaphragm and outer surround have a diameter of I 85mm, giving a radiating area little short of that of a nominal 200mm (8inch) unit. The free air resonance was measured at 40Hz and the first breakup is claimed to be above 4k Hz, although crossover takes place at 2kHz.

Above 2kHz the 28mm diameter tweeter has to do all the work and, to enable it to do so in a tight situation, some more new materials have been adopted. The flat diaphragm is of mica (old timers will recall this as a feature of many early sound boxes) with a single surrounding suspension. The 20mm voice-coil operates in a very narrow gap between polepieces which are magnetically saturated by a samarium-cobalt magnet having six times the strength (and ten times the cost) of the more usual ferrite. This saturation reduces the inductance of the voice-coil and maintains a resistive impedance to higher frequencies. Technics claim a useful response to 48kHz aided by a phasing plate (called an acoustic equalizer in the diagram), far beyond where human ears respond. At the lower extreme a check showed the suspension resonance to be at 1,150Hz, so the 2kHz crossover is well away from trouble.



It is no secret that men from HQ in Japan have visited many of us in the UK to try to find what we want from loudspeakers and where our differing cultures divide us. Their rapidly widening acceptance of Western music—where they already provide many leading performers—have removed many of the barriers; the divisions have almost evaporated. This very fine loudspeaker does more than cast a shadow before it; behind it is the Rising Sun.

[DSJR]

I can't remember the model, but in the mid 70's, Sony used some B&W designed and made? models for the HMP70 music centre. These were very good as I recall and because no-one remembers them, they may be dirt cheap...

The more recent ones by Sony and others that were liked in the UK almost certainly had Martin Colloms mits on them. He made a good living as a "consultant" back then and many successful models on the UK market were thanks to his constructive bodging ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

I can't remember the model, but in the mid 70's, Sony used some B&W designed and made? models for the HMP70 music centre. These were very good as I recall and because no-one remembers them, they may be dirt cheap...
I bought a pair of Sonys from a car boot sale one time as I recognised the bass/mid drivers - B&W. They were effectively the same units but 7" rather than the 8" that was fitted to the DM2. Some kind of woven fibre & epoxy set things, I bought them for next to nothing.

So your assumption is correct :D

[spendorman]

I bought a pair of Sonys from a car boot sale one time as I recognised the bass/mid drivers - B&W. They were effectively the same units but 7" rather than the 8" that was fitted to the DM2. Some kind of woven fibre & epoxy set things, I bought them for next to nothing.

So your assumption is correct :D

I wonder if the bass units were like these, DM5:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image.php?image=525719&is_user=0

[Reid Malenfant]

Yes, though there is no B&W sticker on the back end of the magnet :)

Those are the ones alright :eyebrows:

[spendorman]

Yes, though there is no B&W sticker on the back end of the magnet :)

Those are the ones alright :eyebrows:


About 6 1/2", pretty good units, I have some DM5's, very good bass for such a small cabinet, they weight a fair bit.

[Reid Malenfant]

Well if you ever accidentally damage one you know where to get a spare :eyebrows:

I doubt I'll ever use them :scratch:

[spendorman]

Well if you ever accidentally damage one you know where to get a spare :eyebrows:

I doubt I'll ever use them :scratch:

Thanks, the bass units are pretty robust, but if it was not for the 2 A fuse in the DM5's, think I would have blown one. My Radford ZD50 threw a wobbly and put heavy DC through one. Strange, still need to fix that amp. Not the easiness thing to work on. Transformer is a bit like a welding power supply.

[synsei]

I can't remember the model, but in the mid 70's, Sony used some B&W designed and made? models for the HMP70 music centre. These were very good as I recall and because no-one remembers them, they may be dirt cheap...

I bought an HMP70 secondhand from a shop in Gold Street, Northampton when I was a teenager Dave, it was pretty good for what it was. Mine didn't come with the speakers though and after your revelation about them housing B&W drive units I'm not at all surprised :lol:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4855726690_dfbdecc3e5.jpg

[Alex_UK]

Sony had some success with UK made speakers "tuned" for UK ears around 20 years ago, I bought a pair of SS-85E bookshelf jobbies, and they're rather good - still use them in the Summerhouse. :)

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIIKlMWMEP_5bsdI1XV6js2uTGj8vh0 V5HbyQeCn2aebHgGxiltA

There was a pair of floorstanders (175?) too - they were both quite liked at the time by the press I think, but Sony is the wrong name isn't it...

[Alex_UK]

I posted about this in the eBay bargains thread, but remembered this thread from long ago...

I've just bought a Sony Cassette Deck and Receiver off eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-STEREO-HIFI-SYSTEM-Retro-1970s-STR-6036-TC-186SD-and-speakers-Original-/151034713516?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=o%252B0aRucpjRxctYXOAXIG%252B3gl568%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc"), mainly for the speakers that come with them.

It looks like there's a B&W badge on the back - Sony sold rebadged DM1's (I have a pair) and DM3's I believe - and at first that was what I thought these are - however, they don't look like DM3's now I look again - I thought they might be DM5's - but the bass driver looks too high - so I'm not sure now, but they are definitely rebadged B&W's - interesting. :scratch:

Anyone else got a clue? (They're not D5's either, the driver is too high in the baffle on D5's I think. They don't look deep enough to be DM4's.)

Here are the Sony's from the auction:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SONY-STEREO-HIFI-SYSTEM-Retro-1970s-STR-6036-TC-186SD-and-speakers-Original-/00/s/NTU1WDU2Mw==/z/UYcAAOxyPLpRej~g/$(KGrHqRHJEEFE3pBHFFGBRej+g!eUg~~60_12.JPG

Here are a pair of D5's - you can see the similarity on the back and the label:

http://www.gzhifi.com/opai/images/201201/1326414608920343288.JPG

Any ideas?

[spendorman]

Perhaps an upside down D5?

[Alex_UK]

Perhaps, though I still think the bass driver in the Sony is too central for the one's I've already mentioned - I guess it will be easier to tell when I collect them Friday evening... :)

[walpurgis]

Just about every big name Japanese Hi-Fi manufacturer has turned out some superb speakers at one time or another, not all necessarily seen in the UK though. Technics in particular were making some absolutely gorgeous models in the seventies.

[spendorman]

Perhaps, though I still think the bass driver in the Sony is too central for the one's I've already mentioned - I guess it will be easier to tell when I collect them Friday evening... :)


Maybe a special front baffle made for Sony with tweeter at top.

Will be interested to know what they actually are. Have only seen DM1 and DM3 re-badged though, but that really does look like the B&W label on the back.

[Alex_UK]

Maybe a special front baffle made for Sony with tweeter at top.

Will be interested to know what they actually are. Have only seen DM1 and DM3 re-badged though, but that really does look like the B&W label on the back.

I too wondered if they might be a special variation, or maybe even a Sony exclusive build, not exactly related to a contemporary model.

I'll take proper piccies and report back at the weekend. :) (The label looks identical to the one on the SS-1000 (DM1) which was how I spotted these on eBay. :))

[spendorman]

Faily surely, if they are B&W, they will be quite good. If crossover is like D5, the reversible electrolytic capacitors will need replacing, if like DM5, they are non electrolytic and should be OK. The DM5 build quality seems better than the D5.

[Alex_UK]

An interesting (and cheap!) adventure! :) Watch this space.

[Alex_UK]

Got them home, and they are definitely B&W. :)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_9925_zps730144ec.jpg

Model is SS 1005 - never heard of them, can't find a thing about them on the interweb... :scratch:

They are 225mm W x 455mm H x 173w D

Here you can clearly see the kevlar woofer - 7" - definitely a B&W unit but not from a D5 or any of the DM's as far as I can tell. The tweeter doesn't look like a B&W driver that I recognise (though my knowledge is limited!)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_9926_zpsee394ff7.jpg

I haven't got time to take them apart at the moment, so internal shots/investigation to follow.

More importantly, how do they sound? Really good, actually - I'm amazed how good to be honest! Really really clear, reasonable bass for the size - probably better than the SS 1000/DM1 (although my pair aren't the best.)

I must admit I am really intrigued about these, hopefully someone will know something about them?

[spendorman]

Looks very like an EMI tweeter. Bass unit cone looks similar to the D5/ DM5 bextrene one, but yours has a larger dust cap, perhaps indicating a larger voice coil.

[Macca]

Is that bass driver really Kevlar? On such old speakers?

[YNWaN]

Hmm..might be. It looks like a woven construction which is likely. It also looks like it has been doped and that would account for it not being yellow. If the back of the cone is yellow it definitely is Kevlar.

[Alex_UK]

From Wikipedia "Noteworthy loudspeaker innovations by B&W:
The patented use of Kevlar fibers, impregnated with a stiffening resin, resulting in B&W's distinctive yellow speaker cones started in 1974. This composite material proved to provide controlled rigidity and internal damping, minimizing distortion, as Dr. Peter Fryer determined by using laser interferometry on speaker cones."

More to follow as soon as I can.

[Alex_UK]

Right, here's the internal - I don't think they are kevlar after all that! The date on the Woofer is 9 Oct 1973 which would pre-date the use of kevlar. The back looks white, but
very hard to tell without completely dismantling them.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_9927_zps0f51a313.jpg

The reference number is "DW150/SS"

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_9928_zps8a21b99b.jpg

Given B&W were using EMI drivers around this time, it makes sense that the tweeter could be an EMI unit I think. It just says "Made In Great Britain" on the back on a white round label.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_9929_zpsd6ce3567.jpg

[spendorman]

That odd green paint on the back of the tweeter and the look of it, pretty well comfirms EMI. Many different versions, ranging from just acceptable to not bad. Early ones with Alnico magnets tended to sound best, not necessarily because of the magnet though in my view. Bass unit cone is almost certainly Bextrene.

[DSJR]

Good lord - air cored inductors, although the inevitable (from this period) capacitors are being used and I'm not sure they stack up well compared to today's modern equivalents..

Nowt really wrong with a well designed cone tweeter either, although their upper limit may not be as clean as a modern dome, which *can* offer other problems.

Well done Alex. The speakers made for the HMP/HMK70 centres had a flock style thick black grille on them I recall and may have been a larger version of the speakers above for all I can remember.

[spendorman]

One inductor looks to be ferrite cored, probably the one in series with the bass unit, good choice, as DC resistance will be lower that an air cored inductor using the same diameter wire. Some reversible electrolytic capacitors there, best replaced.

If treble is not to your liking, fitting a soft dome tweeter might help. The one from JPW Gold Monitor is cheap and good. It's a Peerless.

[Alex_UK]

Thanks Adam for your advice.

Having survived for 40 years and with "one little old lady owner from new" :lol: I wouldn't have the heart to modify them to the extent of replacing the tweeters - especially as they seem to be something not well known about. I wonder if there were other Sony/B&W models...?

[spendorman]

Thanks Adam for your advice.

Having survived for 40 years and with "one little old lady owner from new" :lol: I wouldn't have the heart to modify them to the extent of replacing the tweeters - especially as they seem to be something not well known about. I wonder if there were other Sony/B&W models...?

Yes, I might feel the same, but the improvement of a good tweeter will probably make an extremely good speaker. That EMI tweeter is the weak link. Whilst B&W used EMI bass units in their early speakers, they did not seem to favour the EMI cone tweeters.

My little company also bought EMI bass units, but used other manufacturers tweeters. EMI even gave us cone tweeters, didn't really want them. Their hard dome tweeter was pretty good though. The only comercial speaker that I know that used this was the Monitor Audio MA7, which also had an EMI bass unit.

[Alex_UK]

Also, sorry for calling you Adam, Alex!

[The Grand Wazoo]

I wonder if there were other Sony/B&W models...?

Yes there were a few Alex.
The B&W P2 was also branded as a Sony for the Far East market. Your's aren't P2s though as they were much taller, had an elliptical woofer and an Ionofane tweeter which was mains powered.
Also B&W DM1 / Sony SS-1000 (close model number to yours) & B&W DM3.
And not forgetting Andre's favourite the mighty DM70 or Sony SS-7000

[Alex_UK]

Thanks Chris - I have a pair of SS-1000s, the 7000s would be nice and the P2 sounds interesting... :) Are the DM3's called SS 3000, SS 1003, or something else - anyone know?

[Mr Kipling]

What do you think of your Sony TA-F4 amp Alex? Still haven't touched mine yet. Just ogle the meters now and again.

[Alex_UK]

I think it is one of the best looking amps ever IMO, but sonically it's no great shakes - adequate for making a noise, but certainly not much more than average! It is a lovely thing to use and look at though. And those VU meters... :drool:

[Mr Kipling]

Oh Alex. . . I was hoping for Great Things! Got a faulty one with one channel working not too long ago.

[Alex_UK]

Well, "Great Things" perhaps not - but there's nothing particularly wrong either - definitely worth saving.

[The Grand Wazoo]

That Ionofane tweeter is the one that gave off ozone into your room along with a small dose of nitrous oxide - yoiks!

[Alex_UK]

That Ionofane tweeter is the one that gave off ozone into your room along with a small dose of nitrous oxide - yoiks!

...and if you touch them they electrocute you in a nanosecond? :eek: Perhaps I'll hold the thought of getting some! :lol:

[The Grand Wazoo]

No, but if you listen with the windows shut, the ozone will poison you, and as nitrous oxide is laughing gas, you'll die happy!

[Mr Kipling]

In the late '70s or early '80s Nelson Pass produced some type of full-range "ion cloud" type speaker which was said to be quite impressive. Think they required really high output amplification however.

[User211]

Sony SS-R10 (http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-R10.html)

Dual force full range Sony ESL.

The Martin Logan CLX only manages dual force on the bass panel. I wonder whether this is where they got the idea from.

Pretty cool speaker. At 80DB, pretty hot amps I expect!:)

[Martyn Miles]

In the early 70's Sony re-badged B&W DM1 and DM3. I have only once seen the Sony badged DM1's on ebay.

I had a pair of Sony SS1000s which I ( rather foolishly ) sold.
They were exceptionally good, especially in the mid./top area.
The bass end was somewhat curtailed, but what was there was clean.

Back in the '70s I was actively saving up for a pair of DM1s.
Marriage took over...

[Virtual-Symmetry]

I borrowed a pair of Sony 'APM22ES' Speakers donkies years ago.. They were ok. Always wanted to hear the 'APM77', they might look like a typical 80's speakers [Why on earth do those units in anodised Silver finish] but they are an high quality speaker. However anything is better looking than the horrid looking [imho] Yammi 'NS1000' :D

dinXp-PZfWw

[Macca]

They did a few models with the flat drivers, They were good in the mids and tops but a bit bass-shy IIRC

There are some really big ones which are probably better balanced but never heard them.

[Virtual-Symmetry]

They did a few models with the flat drivers, They were good in the mids and tops but a bit bass-shy IIRC



Depends what you listern to ;)

[Macca]

I suppose. Those I heard were on the end of a Goodmans stack system so could have been the rest of the kit that was a bit too toppy.

[Barry]

Sony SS-R10 (http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-R10.html)

Dual force full range Sony ESL.

The Martin Logan CLX only manages dual force on the bass panel. I wonder whether this is where they got the idea from.

Pretty cool speaker. At 80DB, pretty hot amps I expect!:)

Wow - I would have loved to have heard those (and the Stax F-81s for that matter)!

[Virtual-Symmetry]

Japanese Hi-Fi companies sold us the crap we were prepared to pay for, not getting a sniff at the real Japanese clobber. Reminds me a bit of Indian take aways. They don't eat that shyte themselves but flog it us to eat.

:D

[Barry]

Japanese Hi-Fi companies sold us the crap we were prepared to pay for, not getting a sniff at the real Japanese clobber. Reminds me a bit of Indian take aways. They don't eat that shyte themselves but flog it us to eat.

:D

So why are you eulogising about Sony cassette machines? :D

[Virtual-Symmetry]

Cos the real stuff is out of my Wallet. You just have to make do. However ive had it on good word that Audio Cassette are not real Hi-Fi so at least buying any old Cassette deck should do the trick..

[Barry]

Cos the real stuff is out of my Wallet

Very much like the Sony and Stax electrostatic speakers I cited.

[User211]

Wow - I would have loved to have heard those (and the Stax F-81s for that matter)!
Just the three years for someone to realise what an interesting speaker that is.

So impractical it might even have been really good:)

[Martyn Miles]

In the early 70's Sony re-badged B&W DM1 and DM3. I have only once seen the Sony badged DM1's on ebay.

I had a pair of Sony SS1000s which were identical to the B & W DM1s
They really were excellent and a worthy competitor to the venerable LS3/5a.
A little bass shy, but smooth and clear.
They imaged well, but perhaps not quite as good as '3/5as.

[dantheman91]

Yes -

Their electrostatic range is very good....:) so much so i own 2 pairs..

[Dynamics]

I had ss86e speakers around 95 I think. Pretty decent, in my student days.