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The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 00:58
I've got a pair of treasured SD Acoustics speakers that have bass drivers in need of a re-foam job. I fancied having a go at this myself, but I didn't want to make a mess of it so I thought I'd get myself a cheap pair of knackered speakers and make a trial run before doing the real thing. The idea being that I could pay next to nothing for them, learn a few valuable lessons and then sell them on as a working pair for, perhaps, a small profit. Great idea - an education in speaker repair and small scale economics all rolled into one and maybe a bit of fun too, for good measure.

So, at the end of last month, I managed to snag a pair of Acoustic Research 44BX's for a very good price indeed. Great, I thought - 3-ways. That'll give me 4 drivers to practice on! In the photo of them, they looked intact, but if I know anything about AR speakers, it's that if the foam hasn't got yet, it's only because no-one's checked them. The minute anyone touches them they'll crumble!

When I arrived at the vendor's place to pick them up, he told me that the mid-range drivers had gone but he hadn't noticed them when he took the photos for the advert. However, the bass drivers had been changed a while ago. So, only two drivers to work on then, but cheaper, so on balance not bad.

I had thought the project might make an interesting subject for a thread on AoS, then, guess what? Just a couple of days later, Alan posted a thread describing in great detail exactly how he had done a similar job - 'Allison Bass driver repair' (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17068)

In Alan's excellent thread he described how he had chosen to remove the dust caps & use shims to centre the voice coil in the gap - something I had decided that I was going to avoid if possible.

So, somewhat spurred on, but also slightly worried, by Alan's thread, I ordered some foam rings, did some reading and waited. On Sunday, I took the mid-range drivers out of the cabinets:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8827/dscf4098h.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4861/dscf4101b.jpg

Totally knackered foam, but the spiders were in good nick, with no sagging at all and plenty of bounce-back.

I noted that the cabinets were quite well built, despite the vinyl wrap, the mid-range drivers having their own separate enclosure to work into. The front baffle is MDF & the remainder of the carcass is of quite good quality chipboard (if there is such a thing!).

The clean-up job took a long time - lots of isoprop' alcohol, delicate work with various craft knives of different sizes and plenty of care and patience.

So, today was the day when things went back together. I glued the inner rims first and gave them an hour to set. After this, I started to get really worried about getting those voice coils properly centred, as whatever I did, I didn't seem able to consistently find the sweet spot.

Then I remembered there was an AoS thread which mentioned using a battery to charge the coil in order for it to pulse and eventually cause it to centre itself.
A quick search found Rob (hoopsontoast) and his 'My bits and pieces' (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8369) thread, where James said:



I find it best to glue the internal ring first evenly as possible then immediately after gluing the outer ring you can center the cone without shims by using a AAA battery, connect + on the battery to the + solder tab & likewise for the negative. You need to connect & immediately disconnect until its centered (normally 5-10 times) - This way it centers itself... Providing the pva hasn't set!

Well! This is what I tried and it worked like a dream - not a sign of any rubbing. What an absolutely brilliant piece of advice, thanks a lot James - I owe you one!

So, the work continued:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1740/dscf4107z.jpg

...........and I ended up with two fantastic looking drive units:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/671/dscf4117es.jpg

I connected them to the Levinson ML9 and they sounded great. The photo below has them looking fairly small beside the big Mirages but they're actually quite substantial stand mounters at 0.77m tall, with a footprint of just over 33 cm x 33 cm - a 10" woofer and, bloody hell, can they do bass?! I'm actually thinking I may not sell these at all & keep them instead, to use in one of the other house systems instead of some little Tannoys - dropped onto some proper stands, they could be something quite special - we'll see.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4404/dscf4125w.jpg

Anyway, now I feel completely confident in tackling the SD Acoustic speakers, which was the whole point of the exercise.

spendorman
18-04-2012, 08:29
Nice job, how did you manage to keep the glue line so neat, can't see any excess glue on the cones?

I have only ever done one set of surrounds, that was on a pair of Videton Minimax bass units. The foam surrounds had completely disintegrated. I had a pair of burnt out KEF B110's (not by me!) and the rubber surrounds from this fitted almost perfectly.

Speakers still working fine several years later.

The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 09:08
I used a syringe with a blunt needle to run a bead of glue around the cone and the edge of the surround - this ensured that it was easy to control the amount applied.

Something like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-10ml-Syringes-includes-4-x-long-blunt-needles-/200746551742?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printing_PrinterIn kCatridges_JN&hash=item2ebd6d49be#ht_575wt_1344)

I allowed the glue to partly dry before clapping the two parts together. The inner rims went well, but for some reason, things got a bit messy with the outer trim gasket in the places around the screw holes but it all cleaned up nicely.

seoirse2002
18-04-2012, 09:16
That is something I just have to try!
I have a pair of Velodyne in the garage..I was just about to offer them on here for peanuts when I seen this post...maybe Ill give it a try.
GT

spendorman
18-04-2012, 09:20
I used a syringe with a blunt needle to run a bead of glue around the cone and the edge of the surround - this ensured that it was easy to control the amount applied.

Something like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-10ml-Syringes-includes-4-x-long-blunt-needles-/200746551742?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printing_PrinterIn kCatridges_JN&hash=item2ebd6d49be#ht_575wt_1344)

I allowed the glue to partly dry before clapping the two parts together. The inner rims went well, but for some reason, things got a bit messy with the outer trim gasket in the places around the screw holes but it all cleaned up nicely.

Ah, just like my doctor uses!

Thanks, that is useful, I may have a go at doing some foams on JPW AP3 bass units. Would be nice to have those going.

The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 09:25
It did occur to me that to have the drive unit sitting centrally on a turntable of some sort - maybe a lazy susan would be the thing - then it would make the glue application even easier, especially if you could get someone else to rotate it for you.

spendorman
18-04-2012, 09:32
It did occur to me that to have the drive unit sitting centrally on a turntable of some sort - maybe a lazy susan would be the thing - then it would make the glue application even easier, especially if you could get someone else to rotate it for you.

Yes, seen a video on youtube that did that. Could use my TD124 II or Technics SL110 lol.

The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 09:36
I just tried to find the diameter of the syringe needle I used. I bought a selection with a range of sizes a while back when I was messing about with silicone damping fluid. However, they're colour coded & not marked with the actual diameter, so I checked the website of the place I got them from and they appear to be:

18 Gauge - 0.84mm Inside Diameter - Pink

That size seemed to give the right sort of diameter bead of glue.

The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 09:37
Yes, seen a video on youtube that did that. Could use my TD124 II or Technics SL110 lol.

No - the spindle would be in the way.

spendorman
18-04-2012, 09:44
No - the spindle would be in the way.

I was hoping that no one would think of that, then I can use a Dual 1019 where the spindle is removable.

For lower quality speakers, I could use one of the Garrard SP25's in the loft, removable spindle too.

Rare Bird
18-04-2012, 10:09
Nice job Chris. Well done..

The Grand Wazoo
18-04-2012, 10:36
Cheers Andre - I always fancied a pair of these, or preferably the ones from higher up in the range with the wood veneers. They would have gone nicely with the parade of AR turntables I had through my hands at the time!
I've been listening to them all morning & there ain't much wrong with 'em for £5.50 plus the cost of the new foam rings!

Reid Malenfant
18-04-2012, 17:04
Nice work Chris :) I just know you are hoping to find some AR9s in need of fettling :eyebrows:

walpurgis
19-04-2012, 10:31
Just a few points. When gluing foam surrounds be sparing with the adhesive as if it soaks into the foam and receives any pressure thereafter the cellular structure will bond to itself internally and leave flattened spots (it happened to me). Good contact adhesives are best for most re-surrounding jobs. Obviously check your alignments, but critically, make sure you have the surround tensioned evenly all the way round or you'll get kinks/creases. Al the best, Walpurgis.

Magna Audio
20-04-2012, 14:28
Nice job indeed.

I did my Tannoy 15" 3828's way back when and that worked out nicely too.

trio leo
23-04-2012, 13:30
Well done Chris,
Lovely neat job, I didn't know about that nifty battery thingy, saves you cutting the dustcap.
I hope your speakers sound great.

regards Al

The Grand Wazoo
07-08-2013, 22:54
I've been indulging in a bit more of this refoaming nonsense lately - resurrecting a pair of small bass drivers.
I'll put some photos on a new thread in a day or so - the refoaming is part of a much bigger job - this adventure is more of an attempt to completely transform a pair of little monitors with all sorts of ideas that have been brewing in my mind for years.
Back to the refoaming work - these speakers have the inner edge of the rings glued to the back of the cone and it proved a bit tricky to deal with. I think I've managed OK with it in the end, but I can't help thinking there might be a trick or two to make it an easier job. I wonder if anyone has any ideas?

By the way, the battery trick worked a treat once more!

istari_knight
20-08-2013, 11:31
I've been indulging in a bit more of this refoaming nonsense lately - resurrecting a pair of small bass drivers.
I'll put some photos on a new thread in a day or so - the refoaming is part of a much bigger job - this adventure is more of an attempt to completely transform a pair of little monitors with all sorts of ideas that have been brewing in my mind for years.
Back to the refoaming work - these speakers have the inner edge of the rings glued to the back of the cone and it proved a bit tricky to deal with. I think I've managed OK with it in the end, but I can't help thinking there might be a trick or two to make it an easier job. I wonder if anyone has any ideas?

By the way, the battery trick worked a treat once more!

I missed this thread first time 'round... Glad the battery trick worked for you :thumbsup:

I've not refoamed any drivers where the surround is rear mounted so cant offer any advice but I imagine it was a right PITA! Thinking about it I'd be tempted to front mount them like an AR surround... Would it make that much difference I wonder ?

seoirse2002
20-08-2013, 12:14
Anyone want this refoaming project? I have found out from Elipson that they are Elipson 4004 and they also sent me the specs and other stuff shown...Unfortunately I cant read the French review.....Free to anyone who can collect from London....I reckon someone could end up with a nice set of speakers.....
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10307&d=1376472176
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10308&d=1376472288
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10269&d=1375624192
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10347&d=1376858511

Please be aware I cant pack them and wait for couriers etc.

DSJR
20-08-2013, 12:51
Old tatty lenco chassis/bearing/platters (not quite up to precisioon audio use) with drives were used daily to make some TDL and Musical Technology drivers I remember...

The 44 speakers I don't know, but the related? 48's were very well reviewed at the time. Thin plastic tube with a slot cut out was used as a centring 'tool' (Epos did this too I remember seeing) until the adhesives had gone off..

Puffin
20-08-2013, 13:20
The speakers in the review look different to the model you have? The mid/bass drivers are round in the review and the top section has a stepped affair to it?

istari_knight
20-08-2013, 13:27
The speakers in the review look different to the model you have? The mid/bass drivers are round in the review and the top section has a stepped affair to it?

The bass driver frames are a different shape too... Could be revisions but that mid is definitely not original - You can see the originals mounting holes poking out from behind...

seoirse2002
20-08-2013, 15:45
well,that's the info Elipson themselves sent me and I did send them a picture...

Anyway.....DOES ANYONE WANT THEM???:eyebrows:

Maybe Ill put them on the Bay:lol:

Ive heard the expression "cant give them away" and it looks like it lol

Audio Al
20-08-2013, 15:53
well,that's the info Elipson themselves sent me and I did send them a picture...

Anyway.....DOES ANYONE WANT THEM???:eyebrows:

Maybe Ill put them on the Bay:lol:



Ive heard the expression "cant give them away" and it looks like it lol


George , I will re home them for you :) You must be local ish to me as you are in the BIG city

PM me if they are available please

Allen ;)

seoirse2002
20-08-2013, 16:41
George , I will re home them for you :) You must be local ish to me as you are in the BIG city

PM me if they are available please

Allen ;)


PM Sent

pjdowns
20-08-2013, 16:41
George , I will re home them for you :) You must be local ish to me as you are in the BIG city

PM me if they are available please

Allen ;)

Al to the rescue... I am sure he'll be able to sort them out.

Paul.

Audio Al
20-08-2013, 16:58
Al to the rescue... I am sure he'll be able to sort them out.

Paul.

Not sure if I should say " Re Home " or " Re foam " maybe both :D

seoirse2002
20-08-2013, 17:10
Not sure if I should say " Re Home " or " Re foam " maybe both :D


OK Guys....they are going to be refoamed and rehomed by Al:)

I cant wait to be told what they sound like when finished:)
I bet a few of you missed a great project:cool:

Audio Al
20-08-2013, 17:14
See you Sunday , AFTER my boot sale hunt :D

synsei
20-08-2013, 17:25
Congratulations Al. I did think about taking these on myself but there was just too much work to do for my aching back to cope with, off to the old fogeys home for me then... :lol:

Audio Al
20-08-2013, 17:40
Congratulations Al. I did think about taking these on myself but there was just too much work to do for my aching back to cope with, off to the old fogeys home for me then... :lol:

Dave , They do look interesting , I need some re foaming practice before I jump in and re foam my Tannoy Chavs ;)

walpurgis
20-08-2013, 18:11
Dave , They do look interesting , I need some re foaming practice before I jump in and re foam my Tannoy Chavs ;)

I don't know if you saw it Al, but have a look at my thread on refurbishing my Cheviots. It may be useful.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?19555-My-new-(vintage)-Tannoy-Cheviots!&highlight=tannoys

Audio Al
20-08-2013, 19:07
I don't know if you saw it Al, but have a look at my thread on refurbishing my Cheviots. It may be useful.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?19555-My-new-(vintage)-Tannoy-Cheviots!&highlight=tannoys

Geoff I do recall seeing it sometime back , but will have another read

I am slightly apprehensive :eek:

walpurgis
20-08-2013, 19:42
Yours are actually easier to work on Al. Mine had the 3128 driver which has the foam bonded to the chassis. Yours being the HPD 315 have the surround held by radial clamping pieces that just unscrew once you pull the foam strips out. Apart from that they are the same to work on.

synsei
20-08-2013, 20:16
Having just read your Tannoy refurb thread Geoff I congratulate you on a job well done dude, wonderful stuff :)

walpurgis
20-08-2013, 20:18
Thanks Dave. Autumn soon so it'll be project time again. I have a couple of interesting ones up my sleeve.