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Haselsh1
03-01-2009, 14:55
Saturday 3rd January 2009... BBC4 this very eve. Prog rock weekend. It started last night but continues throughout the weekend.

Covenant
04-01-2009, 17:24
I watched the second one, missed the first. I was a bit suprised that most of the people commenting didnt like prog rock, thought they would have dragged out a few admirers rather than Jon Peel who didnt like anyone once they were famous.
I have to agree however that the Rick Wakemen thing on ice was cringe making.

Beechwoods
04-01-2009, 17:35
Hmm. I never got the thing about John Peel going off prog with the arrival of Punk. Pink Floyd were in his Festive Fifty all the way through 'til 1980 (Shine On, No. 60 in 1980 - yeah I know it's No. 60, but Peel didn't rigourously enforce the '50' limit every year :)). He played the entirety of Animals in the week of it's release, Jan 1977.

I thought Peel's reminiscence about the 'middle class twit' at the ELP Festival Hall gig was great - "my mind is blown... totally blown" I had to laugh out loud at that one :) Still watching the rest of it so I may 'unwarm' to him and the other commentators as things go on.

Nice to have some old clips of people you don't often see on telly anyway :)

Haselsh1
04-01-2009, 18:53
Mmmm... I have to agree with Covenant, John Peel liked everyone until they became multi millionaires. I guess there's always the possibility that it was all just sour grapes.

John
04-01-2009, 21:18
Its funny watching these programmes made me reflect that although I listen to prog my tastes are not as proggy as I used to think; for instance I only like a few Yes albums The Yes album and 90125, I could never get into ELP but like some Nektar. I tend to like bands that have proggressive influnces (love Rush, Pain of Salavation, some Dream Theater and Kansas but none are truly prog) I am not into the Canterbury scence just bores me even though I love Jazz fusion but do not like if it gets to smooth. I guess that what I love about music it is personal.
Anyway its been fun watching and hear peoples views, good to reflect for myself as well

Spectral Morn
05-01-2009, 15:07
Hi Guys

Watched the second Prog Doc this morning ( first was much better ). Best thing about this was Tommy Vance, doing the voice over (loved the Rock show on radio 1 when I was much younger). However this Doc was a highly edited version of a much longer show, hence the unrelated bits appearing from time to time. For instance Camel, but no mention of them only a few secs of two songs. Somewhat frustrating as the original version which is a further 45 mins long features Camel, Hawkwind etc. I also noticed that the EPG on Sky for the first collection of clips program from Friday night, listed some groups, that were not shown, such as Camel.

My all time fave Prog album was rated as being the first such album. King Crimson's, In the Court of the Crimson King. I love this lp and the recent HDCD remaster as part of the 30 years anniversary set, is fabulous, especially if you can decode the HDCD sound as I can ( MSB link Dac + ps 2000 power supply.) I also saw ASIA do this live last year at the Perth Concert Hall in Perth Scotland ( a birthday present from my wife). Not King Crimson but still amazing. As part of the show they do tracks from the various bands they have been in, as well as Asia. So we had some ELP, Yes and King Crimson( In the court of the Crimson King), I was in heaven hearing this WOW.

The first doc on the Friday night was much better than Saturdays cut up show. Nick I hope you saw it, as EGG featured quite heavily during it.

Talking of EGG, sort of. I love the Khan album Space Shanties, which features Steve Hillage and Dave Stewart. This is an amazing album IMHO, which I have both on Vinyl and CD. Khan aren't mentioned that much, wonder why ?

As to groups starting as cover/mimic groups, anyone who likes early to mid 70's Genesis with a hint of Van der graf Generator and early King Crimson should check out Italian group The night Watch and the more recent group with same lead singer The Watch. All of their albums are very good. You can look into them at GFT mailorder. All original material I should add.

Another Italian Prog band worth looking at is PFM, a cross between Yes, King Crimson and Genesis. Started in the 70's and I think that The world is the World and Photos of Ghosts are their best early albums.

It was also fun to see Focus on TV as well. I saw them in Belfast last year live and they were amazing. Well worth checking out if they come to play live near you.

Hi John Trevor Rabin's influence on 90125 and Big Generator, certainly took YES down a more AOR road but still very good. If you haven't tried any Trevor Rabin, you should his album Wolf is a good place to start. The best pure YES albums are the YES ALBUM, CLOSE TO THE EDGE, GOING FOR THE ONE and RELAYER. with DRAMA as another fave.

Regards D S D L----- Neil :)

John
05-01-2009, 15:41
Yes got the Trevor Rabin albums of c and like course and like Drama as well but my fav is the Yes Album
Found Egg hard to get into but sometimes like Hillage. I perfer Gong when they went more Fusion but some of those early Gong albums are amusing at first but the jokes wears off quickly
Thanks always for sharing Neil sometimes good to learn about bands I know little about

Pool Hall Richard
05-01-2009, 16:51
I recorded all these programmes over the weekend. Only just got around to watching the first 'Prog At The BBC' clips programme this morning. Loved that Jimmy Saville intro on TOTP to Tull. 'Up from 30 to 10, Jethro Tull, and here he is.....':) I'll have to sample that for my Tull playlist.

Some of the clips were a bit crap to be honest. I do like prog but not all of it. I'll start to watch the documentary tomorrow before the wife and kid wake up in the morning. I dont really want to scare them with all this prog stuff.

Looking forward to that Mike Oldfield live performance from 1974 thats on BBC4 tomorrow night. Think he's got Mick Taylor from The Stones and a few other big names performing on that show.

Haselsh1
05-01-2009, 17:55
I was a bit surprised by some of the video/film footage. Quite a lot of it I had never ever seen before and it left me wondering whose archive it all came out of. For Xmas I managed to get the DVD set of the Gabriel Years. This comprises two DVD's and a book and is pretty good. I've also just ordered 'Camembert Electric' by Gong on vinyl so I'm really looking forward to that one.

anthonyTD
05-01-2009, 18:07
hi all,
caught a bit of the emerson lake and palmer one, there is one paticular clip of of the keyboard player fiddling around in the back of one of his organs,[steady now] of course its all valve, i often wonder how many organs he went through in his career, and how many times did he get shocked!!!:eyebrows:
:lolsign:

Spectral Morn
05-01-2009, 19:08
Hi Guys

GONG are very much something you like or hate. The early Gong albums are frankly not up to much IMHO. But when Steve Hillage joins they get better in terms of musicianship and Radio Gnome invisible is great musically but sucks the big one in terms of lyrics. Was this ever meant to be taken seriously ? However tracks from this album played live for BBC radio are very good. The best GONG album IMHO is You which was Steve Hillages last as he went solo with FISH RISING (awful New Age lyrics but fantastic musicianship. Sorry to any New Age guys, I just don't get now or in the past.)

I love the mid period GONG (so I am with John on that one ). Shamal, Gauzze, Expresso 2, Down Wind are very good Jazz Fusion albums with Prog overtones. It then became Mother Gong ( Gilli Smith in charge)for awhile (not very good IMHO) and them Davied Allen took the reigns again. The mid period albums 1975 to 1978 have the amazing talents of Alan Holdsworth on guitar WOW(though I am not a big fan of his solo stuff).

A few years ago a number of Dance /Electronic DJ'S did remixs of some GONG stuff very good, mostly taken from You album.

Keith Emerson must have gone through Organs like people change socks,never mind the rocking them back or forward, he stuck knives in them, swung them across the stage on wires, set fire to them as well. Clever way of creating note sustain. However I only like a few ELP albums their first, ELP ( my fave ) TARKUS and BRAIN SALAD SURGERY. The other stuff is self indulgent twaddle IMHO. I do like Greg Lakes voice. It is this voice which makes King Crimsons first album, as the follow ups are poor, in that aspect ( Lizard, Poseidon Wakes), first period King Crimson.

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Beechwoods
05-01-2009, 19:23
The lyrics from the Gong Trilogy were most certainly meant to be taken seriously - they seem to be drawn from a whole homespun philosphy as far as Daevid Allen is concerned. He's still at it, all the pixie, octave doctors, teapot tibet stuff :)

Gong were the band that 'got me into' Canterbury music. From Gong to Soft Machine to Caravan, and on and on... The playing on Flying Teapot is incredible. A beautiful mix of jazz, funk, rock and middle eastern influences. Absolutely fantastic! You is more accomplished, but doesn't have the funk or jazz of Flying Teapot, IMO.

They've been promising quad mixes of the classic Gong albums for ages, and decent remasters too. The old Gong stuff really needs remastering the current CD versions re rough. And a lot of the vinyl releases are equally as rough. I've got one of the last of the Virgin gatefold releases of the Flying Teapot LP, it walks all over the subsequent CD releases.

Spectral Morn
05-01-2009, 19:59
I came into Canterbury via Caravan (Land Of Grey and pink ) and Camels amazing first album. I stayed with Camel but lost interest in Caravan, something I am making up for now. Hatfield and the north a wee bit to avant garde but I do like EGG. I agree the early Gong Albums are not very good in regards to sound. This is one reason why the Gong sessions at the BBC are so good because Gong live in the studio is amazing. They play Oily Way and Radio Gnome Invisible. I agree with what you say about the mix of styles and perhaps the reason I like You so much is its quality of sound is better. I have all the albums on vinyl and yes the CD are no where near as good. Yes remasters done properly, with dynamics (not compressed) would be welcome. I should re-listen to these early albums (not heard them since the mid 80's when I bought them.

I was more of A Hawkwind man back then. Found them via a book by Michael Moorcock and Micheal Butterworth called Time Of the Hawklords about a fictional band(or so I thought ), fighting the forces of evil in a post apocalypse world. I was in a record shop and saw albums by Hawkwind and the rest is history. Fave albums are, Hawkwind (mostly acoustic first album) Hall of the Mountain Grill. Warrior on the Edge of Time, all the mid period albums with Bob Calvert( Quark Strangeness and Charm being the very best), Levitation and after that they went crap for awhile and then brought out an album about Elric, one of Michael Moorcocks characters. The album is called Chronicle Of the black sword. After that I gave up on them.

I would love to have seen them live in 1975 and in 1977. Had an opportunity to see them last year but passed, as Dave Brock alone is not Hawkwind IMHO.

Regards D S D L --- Neil :)

Beechwoods
05-01-2009, 21:20
I was listening to Egg's first album today. It's a great album. I heard "Civil Surface' first and 'Germ Patrol' is one of my all-time fave Egg tracks, but the early stuff has the charm of young musicians doing what they want without having any knowledge of others doing likewise before them. Lots of bands you sense are following a course already mapped out. Egg in 1969 were very fresh, I feel, and it's almost coincidental that all the noodling keyboards of the others in the Canterbury set tended towards the same vibe. That and the fact that they were so nepotistic :)

Hatfield are great, I like the fact that they were freer than Caravan, I guess you might call it avant-garde. And National Health took it a step further, but charm you with the addition of Amanda Parsons who's vocals make a lot of their stuff.

I've not heard any Kahn. Their stuff was re-released I think a year ago. I'll have to look it out.

And back to Egg - they released a couple of discs on Burning Shed last year. An album of archive stuff - radio sessions and bootleg recordings; lower gen than was previously circulating, but off old reels found in a shoebox :) and Uriel's album - the one of Egg with Steve Hillage, when they were all teenagers before Hillage went to University.

http://www.burningshed.com/store/eggarchive/

If you're quick you can still get signed copies :stalks::stalks::stalks:

There is so little Egg around that the archives album is well worth getting - their radio sessions are really good.

Covenant
05-01-2009, 22:18
I was more of A Hawkwind man back then.

Yes-remember Stacia? Many early morning stiffies thinking about her.....:bum:

Beechwoods
05-01-2009, 22:33
I seem to recall seeing her featured prominently in the BBC4 documentary from last year. I can't imagine why they thought that she would be of interest to the casual Hawkwind fan ;)

Spectral Morn
05-01-2009, 23:41
As I type this I am listening to Khan's one album( as far as I know), Space Shanty. Very good its been quite a while since I listened to it last. What a mix of styles. It came out in 1972, and there are bits of the Camel sound, around there first 2 albums, we hints of Caravan and Black Sabbath ? I know but some tracks are a bit heavier than other Prog/Canterbury stuff. This heavier riffing is particularly on Space Shanty(the first track). The other band who bear more than a passing resemblance to Khan is Todd Rundgrens Utopia say about Ra period (Love Utopia by the way). All the tracks are fairly long, with one being 10 mins in duration. The typical Hillage guitar sound is present, with lots of very Canterbury type Keyboard/Organ noodling. Lots of runs and flourishes, dropping to intricate delicate passages. There are little bits of Jazz in the sound as well but this is a very melodic album that at times could almost be chill out, until the riffs hit and you are once again faced with a wall of sound. Dave stewarts keyboards are very prominent through out and a joy to hear. Fave tracks are Driving to Amsterdam (featuring Steve Hillage on vocals), Space Shanty,Hollow Stone (in fact I love them all.)

Sound quality is very good, I always thought so and the CD I am listening to now (through Grado Gs 1000, Audio Valve RkV 2 OTL Headphone amp and Impedance matcher+Marantz SA 7 ) shows that of well. Deram 844 008-2 made in Germany 1992. I don't know what more modern releaes may be like but no compression on this release.

Line up Steve Hillage Guitar Vocals, Nick Greenwood Bass, Vocals, Eric Peachy Drums, Dave Stewart Organ, Piano and other Keyboards.

Sorry didn't mean for this to be a review, but there you go.

In my opinion this is a fantastic album and I love it just as much tonight as I did when I listened to it first years ago.

Regards D S D L ---- Neil :)

Ps I also listened to Gong Live etc, tonight as well, great music but I still think the lyrics are a bit to wacky for their own good, just my very humble opinion.

I wondered who would mention Stacia ? Scary very Scary. We all know what type of woman you want Covenant, an Amazon. I don't think the dancers did much for Hawkwind, but I suppose it was all part of the concept. And in away, tame compared to Peter Gab's costumes with Genesis.

One thing said by Ian Anderson ( Jethro Tull )in the documentary ( the other night on BBC 4 ) that I would pull him on in regard to the Sex pistols, is he said that Johnny Lydon based his performance on him (Ian Anderson ). I don't know about you but I don't recall ever seeing Mr Lydon standing on one foot with a flute in his hand. Johnny Lydon based himself visually and in performance terms on Bob Calvert of Hawkwind and has said as much. In fact, controversial time , I can here lots of Hawkwind influence in a lot of punk music.

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 00:16
Thanks for the picture of Khan... I think an Amazon order is in the pipeline :) I've got stacks of Canterbury, but judging by Calyx (http://calyx.club.fr/index.html) there is still masses out there to explore. I'm a particular Dave Stewart fan so Khan will go down nicely. Did you know he also assisted on Neil's Heavy Concept Album? Neil's version of 'Golf Girl' is great, by the way.


One thing said by Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) in the documentary (the other night on BBC 4) that I would pull him on in regard to the Sex pistols . Johnny Lydon based himself visually and in performance terms on Bob Calvert of Hawkwind and has said as much. In fact, controversial time, I can here lots of Hawkwind influence in a lot of punk music.

Absolutely! I don't know enough about the personalities in Hawkwind to comment on the Lydon connection, but musically Hawkwind were very punk. It's hardly surprising that Lemmy went off to form Motorhead, one of the most punk of the metal bands :) And the Stonehenge Fest bought together Crass, Hawkwind, Ozrics and stacks of other crusty punk bands like Flux Of Pink Indians, Here And Now and Hippy Slags - who funnily enough featured Bridgett Wishart who was apparently Hawkwind's only female vocalist!

The circle is unbroken!

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 00:24
I was enjoying Khan so much I forgot to finish the sentence about Ian Anderson and Johny Lydon---- Now finished and it makes sense now.

I am now listening to King Crimson's Islands Album. very good but so different to their first.

regards D S D L ---- Neil :)

PS never heard of Bridgett Wishart. Hawkwind with a female singer, ummmm. I would like to hear that. Not the Sam Fox joke that happened during the Hawk orchestra (everyone who was in Hawkwind ever) debacle. Dave Brock has fallen out with everyone and says Hawkwind is his (took the name as well). Maybe Bridgett Wishart was singing with Nik Turners version of the band a few years ago. As I said earlier, I sort of lost interest in the band as I felt they were rehashing all their old stuff to make new albums, lyrics riffs the lot----Boring.

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 00:43
NIck

I was once introduced to a guy, years ago in college back in 1984 or there abouts.

I have long hair and a beard (still do though, getting quite gray now), this guy looked at me and to our mutual friend and he said and I quote " Oh I suppose being a Hippy your names NEIL !":lolsign:

I was not amused as, One I never thought of myself as a Hippy (still don't) and Two, I don't look or sound anything like Nigel Planners piss take. I did like the Young One though. So I forgave him, eventually.

Regards D S D L----- Neil :)

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 07:25
Hi Neil :) The irony of Neil The Hippy versus Neil The Supreme Dalek was lost on me somehow at 12.15am last night ;) I'm not much sharper this morning for some reason :scratch:


PS never heard of Bridgett Wishart. Hawkwind with a female singer, ummmm. I would like to hear that. Not the Sam Fox joke that happened during the Hawk orchestra (everyone who was in Hawkwind ever) debacle. Dave Brock has fallen out with everyone and says Hawkwind is his (took the name as well). Maybe Bridgett Wishart was singing with Nik Turners version of the band a few years ago

I did some digging and she was a member from 1989 to 1991 - hardly their 'classic era' :eyebrows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridget_Wishart
http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/bridget1.htm

She missed the Hawkestra thing 'cos she was abroad apparently.

Anyway, thanks for the stories. My abiding story of long hair was with my first GF aged 18 or something - both of us with long hair - people would come up to both of as saying 'hello girls...' :lol: Par for the course I guess. Then I got dreads and that showed them... :smoking:

Covenant
06-01-2009, 07:47
I wondered who would mention Stacia ? Scary very Scary. We all know what type of woman you want Covenant, an Amazon. I don't think the dancers did much for Hawkwind, but I suppose it was all part of the concept. And in away, tame compared to Peter Gab's costumes with Genesis.

I saw Peter Gabriel with Genesis doing The Lamb Lies down on Broadway. Good though it was it didnt result in a single stiffy.

Haselsh1
06-01-2009, 09:44
"self indulgent twaddle IMHO"

I really do have to agree regarding ELP. What a pompous, arrogant load of noise apart from the aforementioned albums. The one for me was always Brain Salad Surgery but the remainder I'm afraid I could happily lose down an alley in a wheelie bin.

I loved the early Soft Machine doodlings but never liked the free jazz era. I loved the very early Gong but then it became something to ignore as was the case with Genesis. I found that when Gabriel left he took the band with him creatively and then when Hackett left it finished them completely although much more recently, I did have a quiet interest in 'Driving the Last Spike'.

Of course as with music and Hi-Fi it's all incredibly subjective which is why we can have such discussions. Thank whoever we are all different but we all have one thing in common... Passion...!!!

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 20:17
Thanks for the picture of Khan... I think an Amazon order is in the pipeline :)

Rock and roll...


Dispatch estimate for these items: 16 Jan 2009 - 19 Jan 2009

1 "Space Shanty"
Khan; Audio CD; 11.69
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.

1 "Mighty Baby"
Mighty Baby; Audio CD; 11.98
Sold by: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.

The Mighty Baby album...? Not prog, but damn good jam-band music from early UK Festie favourites. Their track on the Glastonbury Fayre 3LP from 1971/72 is blinding ('Blanket In My Muesli', a version of a track they recorded as 'India' elsewhere of which there are versions circulating of upwards of 40 minutes...) Well worth checking out. I have their second album 'A Jug Of Love' already...

Beechwoods
07-01-2009, 08:59
Do we have any Manfred Mann's Earth Band fans out there? I'm just listening to Messin' which is a fine prog LP imo... 'Buddah' in particular is a storming track :)

rhmbus
07-01-2009, 14:10
manfreds angel station --chance--somwhere in afrika all good albums although roring silence is top of my list
ray

Marco
07-01-2009, 15:39
Did anyone see the excellent programme on Prog Rock on BBC4 last night?

Marco.

Beechwoods
07-01-2009, 15:57
I think it was a repeat of the Prog Rock Britannia doc that was on earlier in the week? I thought it was a great doc :) Last night was good for the Mike Oldfield 2nd House broadcast. Stevie Hillside on guitar with beard and bobble hat. Great TV. Mike O looked very cool and relaxed as well.

John
07-01-2009, 18:54
I will check out some Khan I like the idea of heavy riffs!!! Haha

Spectral Morn
07-01-2009, 19:35
Hi John

Its not on every song (heavy riffs ), only a few.

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Haselsh1
07-01-2009, 21:28
"Mike O looked very cool and relaxed as well"

Is it not true that Mike O had a very serious nervous breakdown a few years or so back in the past...??? Given what I've seen of him over the last week or so I'd say he has done extremely well. I'm happy for him. It must be very unpleasant.

Pool Hall Richard
14-01-2009, 17:19
I'm still working my way through all these programmes. Nearly at the end of the ELP Old Grey Whistle Test. Man, it's hilarious. Just a shame the music was......well, a bit crap. Greg Lake seems vaguely human. Carl Palmer? A bit pompous and Keith Emerson? There's a guy that loves himself waaaaaaaaay too much.

Very entertaining though, for all the wrong reasons.

Next up is that Tubular Bells special for 1974. Shame the BBC arent showing any more. I was quite getting into this season.

Rare Bird
29-06-2013, 18:20
:rolleyes:

sparrow
29-06-2013, 20:40
:rolleyes:

+ 1

Marco
29-06-2013, 20:55
Why bother resurrecting this ancient thread? :scratch:

Marco.

Rare Bird
30-06-2013, 07:05
What & leave a redicularse post like that!

shane
30-06-2013, 07:17
I missed it first time round. Lots of bands to check out. Thanks Andre!

dantheman91
30-06-2013, 07:30
I'm still working my way through all these programmes. Nearly at the end of the ELP Old Grey Whistle Test. Man, it's hilarious. Just a shame the music was......well, a bit crap. Greg Lake seems vaguely human. Carl Palmer? A bit pompous and Keith Emerson? There's a guy that loves himself waaaaaaaaay too much.

Very entertaining though, for all the wrong reasons.

Next up is that Tubular Bells special for 1974. Shame the BBC arent showing any more. I was quite getting into this season.


They made their millions..maybe there not to your taste theres no need to slag them off

Rare Bird
30-06-2013, 10:45
Widder people like it or not they were a super-group & one of the best ever prog bands :)