In & out of The Fridge

[Reid Malenfant]

Well I guess it's time to get some pictures up of how things stand at the present in The Fridge :eyebrows: Seeing as I totally messed up my previous gallery thread I guess a new one is in order :doh:


The Fridge for those that don't know it is the nickname that Marco came up with spontaneously for my rack, I kind of like it - hense the thread name :D

I really ought to get some kind of signature sorted out as well, but as things are going to change pretty shortly I reckon I'll leave that for the time being. As it is everything will be pulled out of the rack pretty shortly as there are going to be a few changes. Going to take a bit of thought as well, as there will be quite a lot of new equipment going in there :scratch:

On with the pics...

Left hand side of the rack.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image8-1.jpg

Right hand side... oops, pic could have been better :rolleyes:
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image1-1.jpg

Oppo BD95EU universal player & one of the two Belkin PF40 mains conditioners as well as a Panasonic DMP-BD80 that's coming out shortly.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image5-1.jpg

Aiwa AP2600 quartz lock DD record deck with Nagoaka MP11 Boron cartridge.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image6-1.jpg

Pioneer CT-F950 cassette deck.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image2-1.jpg

Audio Research Corporation MP1 multichannel pre amplifier & Krell DT-10 CD transport.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image9-1.jpg

Krell DT-10 & two Behringer DCX2496 set to four way mono, as well as a pair of 8033c DSP bass management.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image3-1.jpg

The second PF40 at the bottom of the rack.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image4-1.jpg

Finally a PS Audio P600 power plant room heater :eyebrows:
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image7-1.jpg


Hmmm, looks like I missed a few things like the dCS Purcell & Delius as well as the Monarchy Audio DIP etc :brickwall:


There will be another three DCX2496 going in there as well as another 8033c & an 8033s. The P600 is going to be moved to a different system & the power plant premier previously owned by MartinT (cheers Martin :)) will also be going into the rack, along with a super VHS video recorder & no doubt some other gubbins that slips my mind right now :scratch:

So there we are, back in the ball game :cool:

[Beechwoods]

Mark,

Some nice looking gear! I love your tape deck... serious classic tape-deckery from before manufacturers started building to a price not a standard! Gorgeous early 80's Pioneer fluorescent peak meters, that would look fab next to an RT909!

I like the turntable too... very nice! The only thing missing is speakers :scratch: you got any shots of those? I should probably look on your old Gallery thread I guess!

[Reid Malenfant]

If you look at my old gallery thread you'll find no pictures at all :o

I was thinking the same thing about the 909 myself :D


I'll get some up in a day or so Nick, quite a few other priorities right now I'm afraid. Lots of other stuff to take piccies of so it might take a bit of time :eyebrows:

[John]

That is one intense set up Mark but sure it gives you lots of pleasure I just trying to imagine how hot it must all get in summer

[Jonboy]

I love your stuff Mark perhaps one day i will get to hear it,

You still blow my mind with your tech knowledge, i get a sort of whoosh sound through my ears on most of it i don't mean that in a derogatory term just i'm just not that way inclined, funny that.... someone said that to me the other day now where was i :scratch:

[Macca]

NASA sent men to the moon with less equipment...

I'm also a big fan of that Aiwa record deck, looks really cool.

[jon1]

Very nice gear there mark Is there any thing that you do not have?:eyebrows:Lets think now how about speakers;)


jon

[Reid Malenfant]

Give me time, there is no rush :eyebrows: You forgot the power amps to :D

[Marco]

Looking good, fridge-boy! :respect:

Can we see ya shpeekaz? I'd like to pop me peepers on dem boogie-boxes :rave:

Marco.

[jon1]

Give me time, there is no rush :eyebrows: You forgot the power amps to :D


What all 10 of them:eek:bugger:D


jon

[Reid Malenfant]

What all 10 of them:eek:bugger:D


jon
:rfl: You can laugh... But as it happens, if they were monoblocks then yes, I'd have ten power amps :ner:

:lol: It just so happens that one power amp has six channels & the other two a pair each :cool:

[realysm42]

Mark, why do you have a conditioner and a regenerator in your system?

[Reid Malenfant]

Mark, why do you have a conditioner and a regenerator in your system?
Good question Martin! :D

Ok, so I like to feed all the front end equipment with as clean mains as possible, hense the P600 Power Plant. The thing is though is that some of the front end kit makes use of switch mode power supplies & these can chuck some garbage back into the mains.

Also because none of the SMPS will be what is known as "syncronised" as they are in no way linked & in seperate bits of equipment, the effects of noise at slightly different frequencies can add together at different times (or indeed cancel) resulting in possibly more noise on the mains supply following the regenerator. In other words the noise would be random with a distinct possibility of it having cycles of higher noise peaks on the mains than you'd think possible given the noise output of a single bit of kit.

So what I have done is plugged the conditioners into the regenerator & as each bank of sockets on the conditioners has a seperate mains filter I can isolate any mains born noise from other equipment :)

I hope that goes some way to explaining things.

[realysm42]

It does, thanks for explaining. I'm going to have to sit down and really read it to properly understand, but that's why I'm here :)

What is front end kit? And why do I never hear people mention any other type of kit?

[Beechwoods]

Because you really don't want to hear about anyone's rear-end, do you ;)

[realysm42]

I knew that was coming lol.

[Reid Malenfant]

What is front end kit? And why do I never hear people mention any other type of kit?


Because you really don't want to hear about anyone's rear-end, do you ;)
:rfl:

Front end would be the source, such as a CD player, turntable & low power stuff like a pre-amplifier.

In the case of my stuff you could throw in the Oppo universal player, Krell CD transport, Monarchy Audio DIP, dCS Purcell & Delius, ARC MP1 pre-amp, Pioneer cassette deck, 2 x Behringer DCX2496, 2 x DSPeaker 8033c, Aiwa AP2600 turntable & a few other odds & sods.

That's all low power stuff & what you'd class as front end :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good question Martin! :D

Ok, so I like to feed all the front end equipment with as clean mains as possible, hense the P600 Power Plant. The thing is though is that some of the front end kit makes use of switch mode power supplies & these can chuck some garbage back into the mains.

Also because none of the SMPS will be what is known as "syncronised" as they are in no way linked & in seperate bits of equipment, the effects of noise at slightly different frequencies can add together at different times (or indeed cancel) resulting in possibly more noise on the mains supply following the regenerator. In other words the noise would be random with a distinct possibility of it having cycles of higher noise peaks on the mains than you'd think possible given the noise output of a single bit of kit.

So what I have done is plugged the conditioners into the regenerator & as each bank of sockets on the conditioners has a seperate mains filter I can isolate any mains born noise from other equipment :)

I hope that goes some way to explaining things.

Mark,

What you explained here is exactly what I intend to do with my setup perhaps later this year. The idea being that my Isotek GII nova will be plugged into a P10 which should provide ultra clean and ultra stable power supply. :eyebrows:

[realysm42]

I hope you don't mind me asking in here Mark, but it's sort of on topic; what would happen if you plugged a conditioner into a conditioner?

[Reid Malenfant]

You'd get more interference suppression, but the combination of the two in series would possibly increase the line impedance a tad too much.

Might be fine for kit that draws say 40W or less, but there is such a thing as over egging the pudding at the end of the day :eyebrows:

As I say, the only reason I plugged them into the regenerator was to prevent or should I say minimise the chances of any one bit of kit interfering with any other.

It appears to do what I wanted them to do thankfully :) Regenerator output voltage stays stable & there is no detectable noise on any of the kit that uses a standard PSU thanks to the seperate filtering which the SMPS based kit is plugged into.

[realysm42]

Nice.

In laymans terms, if I were to plug my amp and dac into a regenerator, I'd actually benefits running them through a decent conditioner first?

Is this only if they use a smps?

Ps. were these additions incremental or did you add them all at the same time? If not, did the (eventual) combination of items make a noticeable difference to your music?

[Marco]

Where's yer shpeakaz then, daftee? :gig:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

I wouldn't run an integrated from this P600 as it runs as hot as hell just doing my front end kit :eek:

It all depends on what kind of PSUs your kit uses, if they all use a regular 50Hz transformer then plug them all into the regenerator & forget about it. If something uses an SMPS then some kind of conditioner plugged into the output of the regenerator could be used to prevent interference from the SMPS getting into the mains of the other kit.

My conditioners are plugged into the output of the regenerator & the kit is plugged into the conditioners, there is no point in doing it the other way round :nono:

[Reid Malenfant]

Where's yer shpeakaz then, daftee? :gig:

Marco.
I'll get round to it soon Marco, have no fear :lol:

[realysm42]

My conditioners are plugged into the output of the regenerator & the kit is plugged into the conditioners, there is no point in doing it the other way round :nono:

Glad you said that as I thought it would have to be the other way round. do you do this to keep their 'noise' out of that part of the chain?

Do you often change gear so much?

[Reid Malenfant]

do you do this to keep their 'noise' out of that part of the chain?

Do you often change gear so much?
Precisely & not if I can help it :D

[Marco]

I'll get round to it soon Marco, have no fear :lol:


Echellente! :smoking:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

I had to laugh, there I was having finished watching Finding Nemo & was just watching a documentary on the Yucatan senotes when all of a sudden it got very dark, all the front end kit shut down all of a sudden :scratch:

About a second later there was an almighty crackling & popping sound followed swiftly by clouds of pitch black smoke (which is really something to see in the dark let me tell you :eyebrows:) pouring forth from the regenerator...

A fast trip to the mains switch to shut off the power & an equally fast withdrawl from the room, which by now was filled with what certainly smelled like fried transistors resulted in me hitting the sack a bit earlier than planned :doh:


RIP PS Audio P600 6663


It was always only a question of time :rolleyes:

[Reid Malenfant]

Just pulled the lid off & things are nowhere near as bad as I thought :D All I can see that is definately buggered are three MOVs (metal oxide varistors) which are accross the mains input by the look of things.

Some of the main storage capacitors are attempting an impression of Mr Creosote ( ) rather than [ ], so I reckon it's at least time for a recap... Might as well pull it to bits & do what's necessary :)

Phew :eyebrows:

[synsei]

Damn Mark, sounds like you had an exciting evening. Glad to hear the PS can be resurrected... :)

[realysm42]

All I'm hearing is an elaborate "dog ate the homework"; where are the speaker pics :eyebrows:

[synsei]

No point yet, the smoke has to clear first... :eyebrows: :D

[realysm42]

He could use the smoke for an atmospheric shot :D

[MartinT]

RIP PS Audio P600

Oh no! :eek:

Good thing you have the PPP on the subs bench, then!

Have you taken a look inside? Repairable?

[synsei]

He could use the smoke for an atmospheric shot :D

Hadn't thought of that, good call... :youtheman:

Mark mentioned on the previous page that all might not be lost Martin, thank goodness... ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

Oh no! :eek:

Good thing you have the PPP on the subs bench, then!

Have you taken a look inside? Repairable?
Yes, looks to be a simple repair. A couple of MOVs blew & took out the mains fuse, I can't find a fault with the amp boards & there is still charge on the PSU capacitors which is great news as it indicates all should be ok.

Quite why the MOVs popped I don't know, though they do still dissipate a bit even under normal circumstances & I have seen others blow for no reason on previous occasions in SMPS at Ferrus Power.

Looks like it could do with a re-cap though, so I'm looking for some new ones :)

[MartinT]

I once had a very noisy (electrically) washing machine and it regularly blew varistors in the circuits of my equipment. Since then, never had one go. I think if you live in an area of lots of switching noise (perhaps an industrial estate nearby), then it stands to reason that varistors will be trying to absorb an awful lot of transient power and they finally let go.

[Reid Malenfant]

Well it's not just the MOVs, there is definately something else seriously wrong :rolleyes:

I'm not too fussed though as I'll get your PPP setup in here tomorrow :) I just need a friend here to help me shift the 90lbs of P600 so I don't half kill myself.

Whatever the problem is I know I'll be able to sort it out - unless it's the mains transformer :eek: There are so many taps coming off of it the only way of sorting it would be to give it a new one... Cheap - NOT!


One thing I'm reasonably sure of is that the control circuitry should be ok, so if push comes to shove & it is the transformer I'll gut the amps & do something with a load of SMPS chips & power mosfets I have here (one day :lol:).

It's not the first priority though as I have your previous regenerator to sort things out :D

I did take some pics of the guts before the camera battery needed recharging, it appears it isn't recharging properly though, so I can't get them onto the lappy & on here. New battery on the way, it never rains, it pours :eyebrows: You reading this Martin (realysm42) :ner: I'll give you pics!!


No music or films for Mark this evening, think I'll read a book :cool:

[MartinT]

Paul McGowan at PS Audio is a very helpful chap. If you need a new mains tranny, I'm sure they'll be able to supply one. Does the P600 use a 120 to 240V output step-up transformer like the UK spec P300?

[Reid Malenfant]

Does the P600 use a 120 to 240V output step-up transformer like the UK spec P300?
Yes, the amplifiers are in a bridge & designed to drive 120V AC directly, there is a step up transformer to UK voltage so I guess so.

I should imagine the P1000 & P2000 are the same. The main PCB has inputs for at least another pair of amplifiers as well as outputs for more transformers etc. It appears to be quite modular in construction. No bad thing..


There is a P1000 on ebay at the present time :eyebrows: I just happened to have a look.. Anyone for a good sounding semi portable barbeque? :lol:

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear of your misfortune with the Power Plant. Hope you get it sorted soon, as no doubt you will do :cool:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Marco, things aren't so bad as Martins old PPP has literally just been installed & I'm just over four minutes into my first CD :eyebrows:

No music yesterday nearly freaked me out, it was too quiet yesterday evening :mental:


So I have a smile on my face again :D

[MartinT]

Good news, Mark. How's the PPP sounding? Are you running any power amps from it?

[Reid Malenfant]

No power amps Martin, I reckon just the Lab Gruppen would probably trip it on start up ;)

Well it's great to have music again :D It sounds as clean as the P600, though I think there is a small amount of very low level hum that I don't recall using the P600 :scratch: Maybe balanced mains helps in that department, it does make some sense.

Nothing worth freaking out about at this stage as everything will be pulled out the rack shortly & wired in again with a few new bits & bobs :eyebrows:

No doubt you can only imagine how happy I am that I asked you about the PPP when I heard you were ordering a new P10 :rfl:

[MartinT]

What amp are you using for the main stereo pair? I ask because the transformation in a power amp from running it on regenerated power has to be heard to be believed.

Also, run the Cleanwave for a full minute and turn Multiwave on if it's not on already.

[Reid Malenfant]

Parasound HCA1206. Six channel amp as the system is four way active. It's a big 75lbs sod with a 1.7KVA transformer. Besides which it's the other side of the room :(

This may sound daft, but is there a way to adjust the output voltage? :lol: If there is I'm buggered if I can find it.

Oh, by the way, it's warm just powering my front end kit :) Im 100% convinced that the P600 way lieing to me about the output power as my projector uses upwards of 230W & strangely that is what the meter was reading powering everything else & the PJ as well...

It'd be really interesting to know what current is really being drawn :cool:

[MartinT]

This may sound daft, but is there a way to adjust the output voltage? :lol: If there is I'm buggered if I can find it.

Yes, there's a trim pot accessible from underneath the unit. However, I already adjusted it for lowest output THD (looking at the front panel readout) so beware turning it too far from its current setting. I always thought it a shame that the PPP doesn't have a power read-out, you'll need to use a clip-on meter on the inlet cable and allow for inefficiency.

[Reid Malenfant]

Ah cheers! I should imagine the voltage here is a bit different to yours, so I reckon some judicious tweaking may help.

It varies quite a bit throughout the day so I need to set it somewhere in between the lowest & highest reading to give the least distortion. Or should I say so the PPP has an easier time of it. I'm not sure it'd like boosting 11 or 12V :eyebrows:

Looks like the voltmeter is a tad more accurate on this machine than the P600 to.

[Reid Malenfant]

Well I managed to get a little more life out of the camera battery, so have some pictures :D

Here is the missing dCS Purcell & Delius upsampler & DAC, along with a Monarchy Audio DIP48/96. The Monarchy upsamples to 24bit 96KHz & then the Purcell converts this to DSD & feeds it to the Delius. The result is better than feeding 16/44 to the Purcell :scratch:

There is also the Octava HDMI distribution amplifier that squirts pics to either the TV or projector or both at the same time.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture013-1.jpg

Here is MartinTs' previous PPP, which has replaced the P600 since it blew up :eyebrows:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image5-1-1.jpg

A couple of pics of the popped P600, in the first you can see the Mr Blobby capacitors bulging, as well as the cracked blown MOVs.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture016-1.jpg

Lots of gubbins :eyebrows:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture026-1.jpg

My four way active speakers using Yamaha NS1000M drivers & a 7" Audax. 12" bass driver is inside the enclosure (which is 1.5" thick & braced to hell). The Audax takes the place of the original 12" down to 110Hz. Right then left..

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image1-1-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image2-1-1.jpg

The room... 56" Philips 21/9 TV in the middle at the bottom on top of no longer used centre speaker. 120" projection screen above the TV.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture018-1.jpg

The Paradigm DSP-3400 subwoofer along with a Belkin PF40 that only feeds the TV :rolleyes: If you are wondering why there is a big lump of rock on top of the PF40, it's to stop the PF40 from being shaken off of the sub :lol: Trust me it has happened a few times :doh: That's a 14" woofer with 14mm excursion each way linear.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image3-1-1.jpg

Finally for this post we have the Parasound HCA1206 six channel amplifier, this powers most of the 4 way active speakers, three channels left & three on the right. Underneath the Parasound is a Lab Gruppen PLM14000, that does the bass left & right. At the moment it's having an easy time as I have only seen about 400W RMS per channel of bass. It's capable of 2350W RMS per channel into 8 ohms & 7000W RMS per channel into 2 ohms :eek: Good job it'll only ever see an 8 ohm load then :lol:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image4-1-1.jpg


More gubbins coming soon...

[Reid Malenfant]

Time to get this out of the way :rfl:

Here is another nice Parasound power amp I picked up not too long ago, as good as new with original double boxes etc.This will be used as the power amp for a four way centre channel speaker ;)

Two channels will power a Peerless XLS10 each, the others will power a pair of Monacor SPH180C, a Yamaha Beryllium mid & a Yamaha Beryllium tweeter.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture024-1.jpg

Here are the XLS10s, I have four of them :D These will only be used on the centre & surround channels.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture037-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture034-1.jpg

These are rather special, they are Creative Sound Solutions SDX15 subwoofers, I have four of these to :eyebrows: These will eventually be doing sub 100Hz duties on the left & right stereo channels. I'm virtually 100% sure that no-one hear has ever heard 120DB+ of bass at 20Hz, I know I haven't & I doubt I ever will. But four of these will do it pretty easily, at the same time they should be capable of 116DB at 10Hz (room gain will add more). Once again count me out, it's all new to me. These things have a linear excursion of +/-30mm or 60mm peak to peak :eek:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture029-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture030-1.jpg

Here's one with a CD case...

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture031-1.jpg

These Monacor SPH225C which I also happen to have four of will be used in the new left & right front speakers, the same as the SDX15s. They'll deal with 100 to about 500Hz.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture040-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture041-1.jpg

I have four SPH175C to... These will be used in the left & right surround & two in the centre channel.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture042-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Picture044-1.jpg

Here are the three Behringer DCX2496 that are going to be dealing with all these new active channels :)

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image7-1-1.jpg

A pair of new DSP controllers. The DSPeaker 8033 will control bass on the centre channel, the DSP8033S will combine the bass of the rear left & right channels & feed them to a single sub. You'll understand the reason why soon enough :eyebrows:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image10-1.jpg




Just to add a bit of fun & games... Here is a rather nice bit of kit I picked up recently.. Extron XPA2004 power amp if I remember right :scratch:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image8-1-1.jpg

Reverse face..

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image9-1-1.jpg

It's an installation amp, but with a huge difference :) Four channels of 200W RMS (4 ohm) & very efficient as it's class D. But it uses a patented output circuit that removes the ripple of the carrier frequency from the speaker....

So it should sound ok while putting out substantial amounts of power ;) Why I bought the Mini-T to compare the thing :D


Over & out for now...

[Mike]

Sorry, but I saw that CD and I saw that 'rug'.

You should make an appointment with Gok Wan immediately! :doh:

[MartinT]

Here is MartinTs' previous PPP, which has replaced the P600 since it blew up

I notice the display says 'Boost' and I don't remember that. Also, you aren't using Multiwave - do you prefer Sinewave?

[MartinT]

I'm virtually 100% sure that no-one hear has ever heard 120DB+ of bass at 20Hz

Probably not, but I think I've come close at a Roger Waters concert many years ago. I have never been so physically shaken by such potent bass that I nearly felt sick. He was playing Welcome to the Machine...

[realysm42]

Mark, you're a fucking fruitcake; I like it :eek:

[Reid Malenfant]

I notice the display says 'Boost' and I don't remember that. Also, you aren't using Multiwave - do you prefer Sinewave?
Hi Martin, I'm not powering a power amp. While I can see the advantage of Multiwave if doing so (due to the longer recharge of capacitance & lower current peaks etc), I'd still rather I feed my sources with pure 50Hz. Besides which I'm sure some of this kit is frequency sensitive :scratch:

I think I remember certain kit not liking a higher than UK freqeuncy, might be the dCS stuff, might be something else though.

I just hate the sound of something attempting to turn on & clicking. lights flashing & not a lot happening :eyebrows:

It is a recipe to do something else pretty fast, gotta save the equipment. It's different every time though :doh:

[Reid Malenfant]

I clean forgot about this yesterday :doh:

Here is another bit of kit that I purchased recently, it's a Kramer passive video & audio switcher. Now as I run HDMI to both my TV & projector you may well be wondering what I'd need this for :scratch:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image6-1-1.jpg


Well it's just a case of me thinking outside of the box once again. You see I decided that I'd like to run some kind of digital connection from the Oppo universal player so I could use the Monarchy & dCS kit on certain CDs that I have here. Namely a few I have that are MP3 CDs. I figured that with upsampling etc they should sound a bit better than straight out of the Oppo.

Once I decided I wanted to do that it dawned on me that it'd be superb if I could do the same for Spotify & MP3 recordings I have on my laptop :D The only problem was finding some kind of digital switch of high enough quality! Enter this Kramer which uses 75 ohm BNC connectors. Top quality metal case & each input is properly terminated to a 75 ohm resistor when it's out of circuit - perfect! With a video bandwidth of 250MHz -3Db I know it'll be 100% fine for digital audio switching.

Just received a couple of cables from Mark Grant today (cheers Mark :)), so I'll be able to use this once I get it racked up. If it looks odd it's because it still sealed in plastic by the way ;)


Thanks again to Mark Grant for ordering a few connectors for me from Farnell, which will enable me to connect to the Extron power amp with no difficulty what so ever - cheers Mark!



Mark, you're a fucking fruitcake; I like it :eek:
:rfl: The more things change, the more they stay the same :D Always have been, always will be ;)

[Marco]

You are truly a very mad puppy, Marky-boy... I wouldn't have a clue how to switch that lot on, never mind set it all up!! :respect:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

You are truly a very mad puppy, Marky-boy... I wouldn't have a clue how to switch that lot on, never mind set it all up!! :respect:

Marco.
Actually switching it all off is more problematic :lol: Definately after a few bevvies, it needs to go off in a certain order so as not to induce rather loud bass thumps from the speakers...

Not for those of a nervous disposition :eyebrows:

While I agree there is a fair bit of kit, you should see the mountain of cable that I stripped from it a good while ago :eek: Going HDMI resulted in just one video cable out to each display, rather than a whole bunch of DIY cables..

Take it from me, it's all pretty easy to understand :) Though maybe that's because I want & need to :scratch:

:eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Oops - just seen this thread.

Mein Gott! :eek: What a thread :respect: ... and people call me crazy! :lol:

Very very nice, Mark, and a salutary reminder for me not to get heavily into AV! ... yet more boxes I do not need.

As Martin said, power amps from the regenerator doodad is where it's at, man, by far the biggest improvement from my PPP was to be had there. :thumbsup:

Interesting comments re: SMPS powered kit and regenerators, as well. A new toy in my system is a NuForce P8 pre-amp. SMPS powered and it squeals its head off when juiced up by my PPP. :eek: Nicely quiet when fed from my Belkin PF40, though.

[jandl100]

Aiwa AP2600 quartz lock DD record deck with Nagoaka MP11 Boron cartridge.
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image6-1.jpg


Wow - and I lurv the look of this deck. :stalks:
I've not never seen one of these before.

Is it a good'un? How does it compare with the usual suspects?

[Reid Malenfant]

Wow - and I lurv the look of this deck. :stalks:
I've not never seen one of these before.

Is it a good'un? How does it compare with the usual suspects?
Hi Jerry, cheers for dropping in :)

The AP2600 is a nice bit of kit, yes! Strangely Mike (jac-hawk), the other AV room mod also has one as well :lol:

If you put it up against a stock Techie with the same cartridge etc, the AP2600 would be slightly better than the Techie, but we all know they can be tricked up to the eyeballs :)

It's at least as heavy as a 1210, with a much heavier platter. That might go some way to explaining it's performance.

As it is though I'm not going to complain as it only set me back £25 from a car boot sale about 8 or more years ago :D

[Marco]

If you put it up against a stock Techie with the same cartridge etc, the AP2600 would be slightly better than the Techie...


I'd say that it's more than slightly better. You'd likely have to spend quite a bit on a stock Techy, in order for it to equal or better the Aiwa.

The difference is, the Techy started out its life as an audiophile T/T, but through the years (after being adopted by DJs) was slowly adulterated with 'bits' which did nothing to help it in a hi-fi sense (strobe lights, pitch controls, inappropriate mat and feet, etc) - all of which have to be removed and upgraded with items of requisite quality, in order to restore its audiophile T/T status.

The AP2600, on the other hand, started and continued its life as an audiophile turntable, without being similarly 'interfered with' in between. It's the exact same situation with many similar quality direct-drive T/Ts, from other big Japanese manufacturers. The Techy gets tweaked more than the others do simply because many hundreds of thousands were made, it has a very high quality motor unit, and as such, tons of mods have been produced for it, and it's relatively easy to work on.


As it is though I'm not going to complain as it only set me back £25 from a car boot sale about 8 or more years ago

Jammy fucker! :D

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

Mike didn't pay much more for his either :eyebrows: Prices are going up now though if you can find one...

Probably that AoS factor again :ner:

[jandl100]

Blimey - I want one. :drool:

I'll give you £30 for it, mark - bargain - £5 profit!

[Reid Malenfant]

:lol: Nice try Jerry :D

[Reid Malenfant]

Actually if I ever get my Goldring G99 up & running I might consider parting with it & I'd offer you first refusal Jerry.

I do have a few other record decks now I think about it :eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Actually if I ever get my Goldring G99 up & running I might consider parting with it & I'd offer you first refusal Jerry.

I do have a few other record decks now I think about it :eyebrows:

:thumbsup:

[Reid Malenfant]

I have been wracking my brain to think of a decent pair of speakers I have that are easy to get to so I could set up a system quickly & get a listen to this Extron amplifier. I considered dragging the Ditton 66s into this room, but with the stuff I'd need to shift I soon gave up on the idea :eyebrows:

Well you have heard the old saying that what you are looking for will generally be right under your nose... I was sat here listening to the normal system when I happened to look at a pair of Townshend Glastonburys I happen to have sitting in the same room :doh:

So I quickly gathered up the Extron, a Cambridge Audio pre amp, Denon DVD2930 universal player & all the leads I'd need to connect it up...

I'm quite happily going to listen to this for the rest of the evening :D I'll get some pics up tomorrow as I'll give the Mini-T a spin with the same speakers as I bought that to compare to the Extron.

So far so good, this is also the first time I have heard the Glastonburys as well as it happens. Even stuck out in the middle of the room they sound very nice indeed...

:cool:

[synsei]

Are the Glastonbury's the metal cabbed speakers I rest my coffee on when I come around Mark? :eyebrows:

[Reid Malenfant]

:rfl: Jesus Dave, look in the Mini-T thread :eek: Yes!

[MartinT]

I happened to look at a pair of Townshend Glastonburys

You just happened to have a pair of Townshend Glastonburys?

[synsei]

They do a sterling job on ornamental duty... :lol:

They're the best cup holders I've ever come across Martin :sofa:

[Reid Malenfant]

You just happened to have a pair of Townshend Glastonburys?
Erm, yes :exactly:

Sitting in the same room as my big rig as you'd call it :mental:

[Reid Malenfant]

Well I have discovered that the Glastonburys like some serious power & I like this Extron amp & the Glastonburys as it happens :eyebrows:

Not sure of the Glastonburys impedance, but I have seen the clipping limiter engage on the Extron. So that'd be 100W RMS 8 ohm (200W RMS 4 ohm) & the speakers are loving it & so am I :rfl: This thing runs so cool it's frankly unreal, the amp heatsink is just above ambient, while the PSU heatsink is maybe 10C above ambient. I looked inside it earlier in case you were wondering ;)

I shouldn't be smiling this much as I have an emergency appointment with my dentist tomorrow, but what the hell :D

[Reid Malenfant]

Well I'm still listening to this bodged together system as it happens....

Speakers are in no way in what I'd call the ideal position, but they still sound very good indeed, surprisingly so :scratch: They could do with some spikes as well, but beggars can't be choosers :eyebrows:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/CDM3/Image1-1.jpg

Here you can see the clever use of custom made shelves for the Extron amp :whistle:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/CDM3/Image3-1.jpg

A closer look at what is making a rather remarkable sound :D I could do with more power though as 100W RMS while pretty loud is hit pretty regularly unfortunately :doh:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/CDM3/Image2-1.jpg

Don't show this to Marco ;)

CD63 KI modified & Cambridge Audio pre amp.... Sat on the floor :eek: Ok, it's concrete, but still no excuse :eyebrows: Notice the liberal sprinkling of pure audiphool dust, just to get the best out of them :lol:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/CDM3/Image4-1.jpg


The Glastonburys are going to get a kick up the backside pretty soon, by this baby :D

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/CDM3/Image5-1.jpg

All 320W RMS per channel of it :cool:


When I eventually disconnect the Extron & drop the Mini-T in to give some kind of comparison, I'll pop the top off of the Extron & take some pics. It's interesting to see how much room 800W of amp & PSU etc don't take up inside of that 1U case :eek: In reality the amp could easily be made half the size or less...

[MartinT]

The Glastonburys are going to get a kick up the backside pretty soon, by this baby

And you waited until almost summer to fire it up? :eek:

[Reid Malenfant]

:lol: It might be warmer down south where you are Martin, but the central heating is still on here :(

Just means I'll have one warm room for a few days while I give the old girl a run for her money :eyebrows:

[Barry]

And you waited until almost summer to fire it up? :eek:

Aye - but the man lives in a fridge does he not? Either that or he has good air conditioning!

[realysm42]

What are those new speakers Mark?

That Cambridge looks identical to my first ever amp lol!

[RochaCullen]

Hey Mark,

I've heard good things about the C500 pre, what do you make of it?

Nathan

[Reid Malenfant]

What are those new speakers Mark?
Townshend Glastonbury. They are decidedly secondhand by the way & I have had them for nearly a year without bothering to check them out :mental:

Probably some better pics here (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=townshend+glastonbury+image&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=7VqpT8T_JY_24QSQmqCuCQ&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1159&bih=640) :lol:

Apparently they are quite good, from what I have heard I'd go along with that :) Speaker response is from about 27Hz to 30KHz+, while I can't say they get to 30KHz I can tell you that they dig very deep indeed for what amounts to a 7" bass/mid driver. They also like a bit of power up em :lol: No complaints from the speakers when being fed 100W RMS on peaks...


Hey Mark,

I've heard good things about the C500 pre, what do you make of it?

Nathan
Now you're asking :scratch: Lets just say that I was listening to a modified CD player that I wasn't used to, a pair of speakers I have never heard previously & two power amps I don't know :eek:

I couldn't tell you what if anything the Cambridge brought to the party, but lets just say that it certainly didn't make itself obvious for any bad reason :) In fact it didn't make itself obvious at all, which can only really be a good thing imo..

[Alex_UK]

Looks like someone's having a bit of fun! :)


Townshend Glastonbury. They are decidedly secondhand by the way & I have had them for nearly a year without bothering to check them out :mental:

If they're the ones that were sold on here then I was very tempted myself, and you saved them from a "fate worse than lilac", Mark!

[Reid Malenfant]

Looks like someone's having a bit of fun! :)

If they're the ones that were sold on here then I was very tempted myself, and you saved them from a "fate worse than lilac", Mark!
Yes they were the one Lance was selling, they are superb speakers if a little bigger than yours, but they wouldn't fit in with most peoples decor :eyebrows:

Yes I've been having some fun! I bought a class D four channel powerhouse off of ebay a while ago after I happened to stumble accross it, I then bought a Mini-T to have some kind of comparison as we both heard Jerrys Tannoys being powered by a Mini-T & concluded all was well with the world :)

Well, the Mini-T is very good indeed, but the Extron I bought out performs the thing in every area & some :eyebrows:

There are not very many people on here who'd understand what they were looking at given these pictures, but this is one incredibly well thought out & put together bit of kit. I was pretty stunned when I popped the top off to take a look inside :eek:

1. Proper mains filtering surrounded by a screened enclosure.
2. Full power factor correction & universal voltage input. This baby can be used worldwide & draws current cleaner than 99.9% of any power amplifier out there.
3. Main power transformer & the important bit which is an inductor in the secondary which means it's fully regulated & the negative rail is regulated by the inductor - magnetic regulation.
4. Secondary power supply for all the front end circuitry, no ripple getting to the front end due to the amps using lots of current.
5. Properly snubbed bridge rectifier on the secondary of the main transformer.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Class%20D%20amp%20modules/Image1-1.jpg

The 4 channels of amplification are on the left hand side, next to the four wound toroids.

So how does a class D out perform a class T? Well it uses a patented bit of circuitry on the output inductors of the amps that prevents the carrier frequency ripple from getting to the load. It's a process called Ripple Steering...

In case you are interested or whatever (http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=classdaudioamp_ts) :eyebrows:

While the Mini-T sounds great at lowish volume because the carrier is at a higher frequency, this sounds at least as good as there is no carrier on the output. When things get tough & more power is needed this keeps up the same quality level & the Mini-T quality drops off some as the carrier frequency falls..


So this is what an 800W RMS amplifier looks like :rfl: I forgot to add something that is quite important. It can be used single ended but the inputs are totally balanced, which is only a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I love balanced kit & interconnects :D

Ok so a few more pics..

Proper PWM control using an SG3525 chip, looks like it might have been converted to current mode rather than voltage mode regulation going by the current sensing transformer on the left hand side of this picture.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Class%20D%20amp%20modules/Image5-1.jpg

Looking up this chip it appears to be similar if not the same as the IRS2092, it has pedigree.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Class%20D%20amp%20modules/Image2-1.jpg

The all important bucking winding on the output inductor (pinkish wire, a couple of turns on top of the copper coloured stuff), unless I strip the thing I won't be sure which is the ripple steering inductor though. Not sure I'm prepared to do that :eek:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Class%20D%20amp%20modules/Image3-1.jpg

Some more serious output filtering....

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Class%20D%20amp%20modules/Image4-1.jpg


In case you wondered this baby is going to get used in a system of some sort, it sounds rather good, as good as just about any class B or AB amp I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. That includes amplifiers costing thousands ;)

It also uses bugger all electricity unless you need power :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

That's a nice piece of kit, Mark, and very well laid out. Hard to believe they could fit that into a 1U chassis.

I like the magnetic regulation, something that features in my Chord (dynamic coupling of the +ve and -ve rails). What voltage are the main power rails? How much is the Extron? You could be starting a bit of a following here.

[Reid Malenfant]

That's a nice piece of kit, Mark, and very well laid out. Hard to believe they could fit that into a 1U chassis.

I like the magnetic regulation, something that features in my Chord (dynamic coupling of the +ve and -ve rails). What voltage are the main power rails? How much is the Extron? You could be starting a bit of a following here.
There is enough room for me to think it could be built into something only half the width :mental:

Not sure of the rail voltages, but an educated guess would put them at about +/- 42 - 45V allowing for the 100W RMS (8 ohm) & 200W RMS (4 ohm) per channel it can develop, it'd need to swing a peak voltage of 40V. As it's a four channel amp two can be bridged for 400W RMS into 8 ohms.

I agree on the magnetic regulator, when I used to mess about with dual rail PSUs at Ferrus Power the negative rail could sustain the complete load rating of the PSU & still stay within a few percent of the desired output voltage whilst supplying DC. Meanwhile the positive rail was still at exactly the voltage it was set at with no load.

I have no idea if these are still available, but the last price I saw was $1600 or so in 2010, so allowing for conversion to UK prices it'd be approximately £1600 at the end of the day...

It's also one of the only amplifiers I have ever known that runs cooler at or near full power. When supplying a few watts the PSU heatsink gets warm. Turn it up & it runs cooler, the amplifier side seems to run about 5C above ambient :)


I'll be keeping this one :cool:

[Reid Malenfant]

Some good news, well I reckon :) Looks like the P600 Power Plant can be fixed.

I was testing the mains transformer with a function generator today & it all looks well. I'll give it some 240V AC tomorrow, but all the secondaries & primaries appear to be ok, with no shorts & equal voltages on the secondaries as it should be.

I have already taken out the "hub" PCB as I needed to check exactly how the main transformer was wired, some of the circuitry is a little quaint :D

Nothing wrong with any of the PSU circuits on the hub board as there are tiny fusible links & they are all as they should be. I might recap the board though just to be on the safe side.

2200uf 25V bipolar caps are going to be a pain in the ass to find though :rolleyes: Yes I know there are 4 on ebay in Switzerland, the P600 uses 3 but there is room for 5. A little calculation I reckon will show that better performance would be had with more capacitance. These caps have the amplifier output fed through them, something like the Quad 303, but without any (or very little) DC accross them. I'll see what I can find :D

So it's looking like one of the amplifiers has blown, only transistors at the end of the day :cool:


E2A:- I have found a supplier for the 2200uf 25V bipolar electrolytics, $0.99 each, but the shipping might knock that up a bit. The seller accepts Paypal :) Google is your friend :D

[Jac Hawk]

I'd say that it's more than slightly better. You'd likely have to spend quite a bit on a stock Techy, in order for it to equal or better the Aiwa.

The difference is, the Techy started out its life as an audiophile T/T, but through the years (after being adopted by DJs) was slowly adulterated with 'bits' which did nothing to help it in a hi-fi sense (strobe lights, pitch controls, inappropriate mat and feet, etc) - all of which have to be removed and upgraded with items of requisite quality, in order to restore its audiophile T/T status.

The AP2600, on the other hand, started and continued its life as an audiophile turntable, without being similarly 'interfered with' in between. It's the exact same situation with many similar quality direct-drive T/Ts, from other big Japanese manufacturers. The Techy gets tweaked more than the others do simply because many hundreds of thousands were made, it has a very high quality motor unit, and as such, tons of mods have been produced for it, and it's relatively easy to work on.



Jammy fucker! :D

Marco.

I only paid £22 for mine:ner:

[Reid Malenfant]

I only paid £22 for mine:ner:
Well that was pretty near mine at £25 :lol:

I knew yours was somewhere near that :D


Bargain both of them!

:cool:

[Jac Hawk]

Well that was pretty near mine at £25 :lol:

I knew yours was somewhere near that :D


Bargain both of them!

:cool:

VERY TRUE :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

E2A:- I have found a supplier for the 2200uf 25V bipolar electrolytics

Bipolar? Is the amp capacitor coupled? I would have thought that polar electrolytics would be used. Can't understand how that circuit works, unless it uses +ve & -ve rails and is also capacitor coupled - unusual. WHat trannies are the blown ones?

[Reid Malenfant]

The explanation for the bipolar electrolytics will hit you when you remember that the P600 has a balanced output which is stepped up by a transformer ;)

As there may be some DC offset between each amp block & the output transformer has a very low winding resistance there needs to be some way of blocking DC current flow. So they have used 3 x 2200uf bipolar electrolytics :rolleyes:

Doing some math indicates that each capacitor will have a reactance of about 0.95 ohms at 50Hz, so they parallel a few up, but there is room for another two...

I'm going to fit the extra two :D

No idea what's blown on the amps yet as I need to strip the whole unit. To get the amplifier PCBs out will require me removing both the mains input & the output transformers :steam:

There are 12 MJL21193 & 12 MJL21194 transistors in the unit, 6 of each per amp channel & they are in no way cheap :( There looks to be 12 more drivers which look to be MJE13000 series.

The thing is if one has blown then the others won't be far behind the first, so if that's the case I'll replace the lot of them & be done with it.

[Mike]

Doing some math

Shame on you!... Talk ENGLISH! :spank:

[Reid Malenfant]

Ok, decided to use my head for once :D

Those bipolar capacitors may well be cheap, but 1. I haven't heard back from the seller yet & 2. Registered signed for shipping from USA is not going to be cheap...

So I just bought 10 x 10,000uf 6.3V Kendeil axial capacitors (£5.99 with free shipping). These will do the job fine & I can fit back to back diodes to protect them.

Strangely there is a single diode on the hub PCB doing the same thing :scratch: Why just one? There is also a bleed resistor.. I don't know what they were thinking :eyebrows:

Effectively I'll be making a DC blocker as used in some mains installations.

I'll also end up with 25,000uf rather than the paltry 6,600uf fitted as standard, so far less reactance at 50Hz.

I have every other electrolytic capacitor used in the P600 on the way as well :cool:


We can rebuild it sang the mice on the mouse organ :eyebrows:



Oooops, looks like I'm in for a beating :o

[synsei]

You do realise you will need to change your avatar to Professor Yaffle now don't you... :D

http://www.puppetcraft.co.uk/images/Yaffle.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

You do realise you will need to change your avatar to Professor Yaffle now don't you... :D

http://www.puppetcraft.co.uk/images/Yaffle.jpg
:lol:

Well a new toy arrived this morning from Germany, my new (but secondhand) Musical Fidelty V-Link. It's a black box, you don't really want pictures do you? :eyebrows:

I'll get a couple taken a bit later when I have gotten more up to date with the Album Club offerings :)


This thing is so simple to use it's daft. The job of converting digital data from my laptop was previously done with a Fanmusic converter (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-FANMUSIC-USB-SPDIF-COAXl-Converter-PCM2902E-/250734022377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a60e98ee9), which sometimes needed to be disconnected & reconnected a few times to get everything locked. It was occasionally a bit of an annoyance, but once working it was ok.

This appears to have zero problems & works straight away as soon as it's connected. It also sounds a whole lot better :D


The first thing I noticed was a much more solid & tuneful bass, this was obvious within a few seconds of bass being evident on the MP3 I happened to be playing. Having given it some time it also seems that the whole audio band sounds more solid, with better imaging & a much smoother though far from pipe & slippers presentation.

It has edges to the sound that'd cut paper cleanly, it just doesn't sound as plainly digital as the Fanmusic did & frankly given the price I was still happy with that. This is a whole different ball game though...


One very happy chappie! :cool:


Ah, I forgot to add that I'm going to modify the thing :doh: A little like the M2Tech Hi-Face I used a while back it draws it's power from the USB line. Well it pulls enough to get the laptop fan spinning full speed all the time, so it'll be getting it's own PSU :)

On top of that I'll be fitting an insulated 75 Ohm BNC connector & a pulse transformer to give the coaxial line complete galvanic isolation. Admittedly it doesn't appear to be a problem right now though, but as I have the bits...

[synsei]

I've wondered whether it might be worth acquiring one. At present my PC dumps hires audio into the Caiman via a digital coax lead. If I understand what I have read, the V-Link provides asynchronous USB capability to those DAC's that don't have the facility thus allowing for 24/96 throughput via a USB connection, is this correct? If so, would there be an advantage over my current configuration? ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

That's about what it does Dave :)

It depends if you think that going asynchronous is advantageous :scratch:


Me, I'm well & truly sold but then look at what I was using before.

It really has made a truly magnificent difference though! It's quite gobsmacking :D

[synsei]

Well, I guess it wouldn't make a jot of difference regarding sound quality as the PC will output 24/96 down the pipe when necessary. I am seriously considering one of Stan's Bushmasters although I will have to sell somet first to fund the purchase.

[Reid Malenfant]

Well, I guess it wouldn't make a jot of difference regarding sound quality as the PC will output 24/96 down the pipe when necessary.
Well admittedly you couldn't connect it to an S/PDIF unless it was modified. But then your DAC is still forced to take the data at a rate determined by the computer & not by the DAC :scratch: In all honesty I don't know how that side of things work, just as long as they do I'm happy :rfl:

Anyway, those pictures...

The V-link doing the do..

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image1-1-2.jpg

An insulated 75 Ohm BNC connector that'll be taking up residence on a panel of the V-link pretty soon.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/Image2-1-2.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Well both a brand new Belkin USB cable & the new regulated PSU for the V-Link arrived today :)

As predicted it works a treat :eyebrows:

At the moment I'm using it to listen to some stuff on Grooveshark, might as well get the USB cable used to flowing some electrons.

I have the regulated PSU set to 6V so it overides the USB bus voltage of 5V or there abouts, as soon as it's plugged in the power LED brightens a bit, which is just as it should be.

The fan on my laptop no longer spins ten to the dozen continuously & apart from minor glitches from streaming from the web every once in a while, there does appear to be a slight but noticeable improvement in sound quality. Bass certainly has a good bit more heft & it wasn't exactly short of that before :D


It all promises to be good fun :cool:

[MartinT]

I heard the V-Link used to good effect at Andrew R's place, firing into a Sabre DAC. It made very nice sounds indeed.

Surprised you haven't commented on my Blu-ray player dilemma :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Surprised you haven't commented on my Blu-ray player dilemma :)
Oh I have read the thread Martin, but what do you expect me to recommend in all honesty :scratch: :lol:

Yes the V-Link is a rather good bit of kit that has just gotten a bit better! I'm quite surprised at the difference using a linear regulated PSU, I expected some, but not this kind of a difference :D

[MartinT]

Oh I have read the thread Martin, but what do you expect me to recommend in all honesty :scratch: :lol:

I heard you shouting "Oppo, Oppo..." in my head :lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

Ok, here is a new bit of mystery kit that I bought rather cheap recently :eyebrows:

The first person that tells me the manufacturer & amplifier series (I doubt you'll get the model as there are a few & they all look similar) is in for a pint of beer at next years Scalford show, or the AoS show... Now where has that gone to :scratch:

Here's the best bit :) The person that guesses the closest as to why this is going to become one of the very best power amps after some less than subtle modifications will be in line for six bottles of their favourite beer or cider :D As long as I can get hold of the stuff at any rate & it doesn't set me back more than £30 :cool:

You'll need to use your head a bit, but I'm sure if you think out of the box a tad you can come up with something :) I'll be invalidating the manufacturers 6 year warranty with 3 years still to go, but it'll be more than worth it :mental:

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image7-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image8-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image1-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image2-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image3-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image4-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image5-1.jpg

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Power%20Amp/Image6-1.jpg


Have fun :cool:

[walpurgis]

Would this be one of the Lab.Gruppen 'C' Series installation amplifiers?

Also, have you in mind a set of interesting Class 'T' chips for it?

Geoff.

[Reid Malenfant]

That's a beer I owe you :) Yes, C series Lab Gruppen, C28:4 to be precise... Now see if you can work out why I can't wait to modify it :rfl:


Also, have you a set of interesting 'T' Class chips in mind for it?
Nothing to do with class T chips.. You need to suss out what Lab Gruppen have done with their class TD output & you might have some form of insight into how out of the box I can think ;)

[walpurgis]

No, beats me. I'll be interested to hear what you have in mind when that's revealed.

[Reid Malenfant]

No, beats me. I'll be interested to hear what you have in mind when that's revealed.
Well I owe you a beer which I'll happily buy you if we meet up :)

I'm hoping that someone at least sometimes thinks along the same lines as me, though it wouldn't surprise me if they don't, I'm a bit of an oddball :eyebrows:


The class TD output stage isn't very well named, effectively it is a standard class AB output stage but fed from an SMPS tracking regulator for each voltage rail, similar to the Carver Lightstar.

With more modern components it works very well indeed, the heatsinking for each channel of the C28:4 is smaller than a 30W amplifier, yet each channel can output 700W RMS :eek:

I wouldn't have entertained these things if I hadn't seen the circuit diagram, the amp is beautiful! It's how I'd design a top quality hifi amp, in fact it's so similar to what I have messed about with previously it's uncanny :D

The tracking regulators are there to make sure that only about 7.5V DC is across the output stage, so even if it's supplying lots of current, the dissipation is pretty low.


No more clues... All will be revealed tomorrow :)

[MartinT]

Very neat design, Mark. A little like the way the PPP amps 'ride' the incoming mains waveform and apply correction.

[Reid Malenfant]

Very neat design, Mark. A little like the way the PPP amps 'ride' the incoming mains waveform and apply correction.
Similar, yes...

Now imagine the output stage running 3Amps or more current... Quiescent :scratch:

Remember that SMPS are power converters :)

[MartinT]

3A quiescent? Erm, you're going to use the SMPS to directly modulate the music signal? You need a heater for the winter months? It's going to make really good coffee?

[Reid Malenfant]

Hmmm, can't hang about long as I'm expecting to get picked up by a friend shortly..

Three amps quiescent will only result in a dissipation of 45W per channel, which is not a lot (3A x +/-7.5V). Admittedly as soon as it started swinging voltage the dissipation would increase, but on the transistors of the opposite rail to the one supplying speaker current.

It's kind of backwards :lol: It does take a bit of thinking about :scratch: It'd in some respects dissipate similarly to a class AB until more than 6A was being supplied to the load, when it'd go back to being incredibly efficient again.

The idea is to junk the forced air cooling & use conventional heatsinking.

There aren't that many 140W RMS per channel class A power amps out there due to the size of the heatsinking needed & electricity bill, this is an alternative :D If you consider it, you may see why I'm not fussed about invalidating the warranty...

[Reid Malenfant]

Slight change of plan with this Lab Gruppen amp :eyebrows:

This amp is incredibly efficient due to it's switch mode tracking regulator output stage & I was always going to build a full class A set of amplifiers, but with a low voltage high current output stage. So this is it :)

It'll be a case of copying the amplifier topology but with more local feedback to reduce the voltage gain as I need to build four more voltage amplifiers, but with lower gain as they'll be class A at the output stage.

Heatsinking I have, transformers & high current schottky rectifiers to power the output stage I also have, I was just missing a huge amount of low voltage capacitance...

That has been taken care of & at an incredibly reasonable price I might add ;)

100 x 39,000uf 6.3V DC computer grade electrolytics. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200750358379) Shipping was $75 & Gus Thoms & Heck Size only robbed me for £28 :cool:


I can't remember who said it or in what film, but, "I'm going to have me some fun" :rfl:

[synsei]

I'm not sure I get it entirely but it sounds interesting none the less ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

I'm not sure I get it entirely but it sounds interesting none the less ;)
All will be revealed, eventually ;)

I think I'll get it done & take pics as I go along & then put a thread up :eyebrows: Every time I start something I end up stuffed for a good while & I lose track :doh:

I just ought to add that I now have a second Lab Gruppen C28.4 & it'll be getting the same treatment.

Bought it off of the same chap that was selling them on ebay, except I went off of ebay & did the deals. Generally not a good idea, but when I get that feeling, I need amplifier healing :rfl:


That's me now 100% sorted, I never need to even think about purchasing another power amp :yay:


If I ever clip these sods then I'll be......

Deaf :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Just keep this thread going, Mark, as we're all here who care anyway ;)

[synsei]

+1 :)

[Reid Malenfant]

I did mention that I bought a second Lab Gruppen C28-4 which will be modified along with the first, eventually ;)

Unfortunately I saw something somewhere that caught my eye (as I'm sure Dave is aware :lol:) & I just couldn't resist it...

In the picture the bottom two amps are the pair of C28-4, which are 4 channel amplifiers. The 28 refers to the power output, multiply 28 x 100 & you get 2.8KW or 700W rms per channel.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad240/speakermark/Audio%20Video%20system/groupagruppens.jpg

The new kid on the block could be used for anything, it's an 8 channel power amp. So it could be used for a pair of 4 way active speakers, or bridged for a pair of 2 way stereo speakers, or even used to power an entire 7.1 surround system.

In all honesty I'm not sure yet :scratch: But what the heck! Meet the C20-8 & yes you just need to multiply the first numbers by 100 again to get the total power output.

Why couldn't I resist it... Well they are £3K new & sound very good indeed, not only that it's still under the manufacturers 5 or 6 year warranty, I can't quite remember which it is... Oh, it set me back 1/6 of that & I find it difficult to resist a bargain :eyebrows:


Chuffed :D

[MartinT]

One day you're going to harness all that power together, Mark, and even the Krell will be scared :eek:

[Reid Malenfant]

:lol: The Krell waved the white flag as soon as the Lab Gruppen PLM14000 was delivered ;)

After all, it can output nearly twice as much as the Krell with both channels driven into 1/2 ohm (4.5KW I believe) on a single channel - 7KW (2 ohm) :eek:

2.3KW per channel 8 ohm...

As I say, it knew it was whooped :eyebrows:

On a different note, something I need to investigate & has gotten me a little excited.

The LG class TD amps use a kind of class D amp to control the rail voltages fed to the output stage, obviously two per channel (positive & negative) & these are switching at a pretty spectacularly high frequency.

They use a quartz crystal controlled oscillator using a 2.468MHz (I think) crystal & then divided by four to switch at over 600KHz.

I was looking at the specs of the C20-8 which is fully class D by the way, & it has a power bandwidth to 56KHz+, which is far higher than a normal class D amp (or class T for that matter). I'm just wondering if the thing is also switching at over 600KHz :scratch:

If it is, then it'll sound very similar to a class T amp at low power (before the switching frequency lowers as power increases) all the way to full power :)

Typical LG, having looked inside the thing they have done things like I have never seen on any other occasion. I'll pop the bottom panel off of it soon, if I find that elusive crystal it'll bring a big smile to my face.

[synsei]

Unfortunately I saw something somewhere that caught my eye (as I'm sure Dave is aware :lol:) & I just couldn't resist it...

Moi? Noooooo... :lol:

[MartinT]

They use a quartz crystal controlled oscillator using a 2.468MHz (I think) crystal & then divided by four to switch at over 600KHz.

I hope it's well screened or you're liable to become the local radio station!

[Reid Malenfant]

Oh yeah :D They are very well screened & I did used to be the local radio station ;) :eyebrows: 27MHz though..

Must check what frequency crystal it is they use, all I can remember is the switching frequency is over 600KHz & there is a divide by 4 network following the crystal.

Might well be the ubiquitous 2.768MHz jobby :scratch: I'll find out by tomorrow.


Must be better than the self oscillating type which change the switching frequency power level dependent. Higher power = lower frequency = lower quality.