View Full Version : Windows 8
Has anybody else got it yet? I am trialling the Evaluation Copy: Build 8250 and all I can say is that it's rather weird compared to all the Windows O/S's since Windows 95.
Totally different when you move away from the Desktop and there is no Start button, so it took me quite awhile to work out how to navigate. It really does seem to be an O/S designed for touchscreens. It also appears quite simplistic on the surface, but I'm sure it isn't underneath. You also need a Microsoft account to do most things, as it all seems to be linked to the 'cloud' and Skydrive.
Very interesting at the moment, my stuff seems to work with it OK, Spotify and Firefox are running OK. Installing was a breeze and took about 30 minutes, with no missing drivers or conflicts, so installation should be simple for most people.
I will have a play around and take some screenshots later if anyone is interested, but I must dash now as I have a gig tonight. I did try to capture the screen earlier, but I cannot find Paint anywhere. Oh, everything is called an 'App' too - very Apple :scratch:
:cool:
Tim, Your comments seem to echo everything I've read about Windows 8.
Not likely to be tried here - I've only one PC running Windows out of 5 in the house and that's running XP.
As an aside, you could have been having your first play with this 20 years ago today
http://toastytech.com/guis/win31logo.png
northwest
06-04-2012, 19:11
Tim, Your comments seem to echo everything I've read about Windows 8.
Not likely to be tried here - I've only one PC running Windows out of 5 in the house and that's running XP.
As an aside, you could have been having your first play with this 20 years ago today
http://toastytech.com/guis/win31logo.png
Feck me! Really? Twenty years ago.... I remember it clearly. But not fondly.
I am not taking the leap to Windows 8.
They are forcing this whole cloud computing crap down our collective throats,it's about money and control. By not buying into Win 8 it will send a message spelled out in millions of lost revenue,they can't afford another vista for long ,can they?
With Apple stomping and kicking there Teddy Bear.
aquapiranha
06-04-2012, 20:06
I have been using Linux on th PC for a couple of years, only this old laptop is on W7 as the other half likes using office. Mint Linux is free and stable.
ursus262
06-04-2012, 20:50
I have been using Linux for over five years ago, having given up on Vista. I still use Linux, but I have a MacBook Pro now. I'll never go back to Windows.
Tim, I have been running Win8 for a while. I am also desktop centric, but the trick is to view the Metro interface for what it is: the new Start menu.
Being desktop centric I have removed most of the apps and I have off cause pinned my daily programs to the taskbar.
Some new shortcuts to learn
Desktop ---> Win+D
Metro ----> CTL+ESC
Charms ----> Win+C
Explorer ----> Win+E
Search ----> Win+F
Settings ----> Win+I
App Bar ----> Win+Z
Closing Apps ----> ALT + F4 or Windows + CTRL + TAB
System Programs ----> Win+X or right click the bottom left
Well it's not a hit for me, I think it will be a long time before I switch from Windows 7 and to be honest after that, it may well be Linux or possibly even a Mac :eek:
Windows 8 is going to have to go some before I consider it, as I think it's pretty dire right now . . . it took me fecking ages just to find out how to shut it down!
I know it's early days, but at the moment this looks like it might not be too far from the truth :lol:
http://img.anongallery.org/img/4/2/windows-8.jpg
I was going to post exactly the same graphic...there's a large element of truth on there! :)
BBC News - Three 'flavours' for Microsoft's Windows 8 OS
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59695000/jpg/_59695522_58788539.jpg
There's a news item on the BBC site about 8 for any that are interested? I really think Microsoft have missed a trick here, but apparently the developing team are all pleased as punch with their new baby. They should IMO have just tweaked Windows 7 which is universally liked, ditched all the variations and priced one version competitively and released a tablet O/S. So you would just have two versions, one conventional O/S for keyboard and mouse and a touch screen version for tablets etc. I predict this is going to be another bomb and Apple will gain more market share as Windows fans switch to a Mac. I used it for a short while and maybe it will change before final release, but I think the current 'Consumer Preview' version is pants and I'm a PC!
Maybe time to switch to an iMac :sofa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17740566
In the interests of balance (and to go ":ner:" to the Apple fanboys... :lol:)
;)
...this chap reckons he's ditching his macbook and iPad and getting a new Windows 8 driven device.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/16/3246185/this-is-my-next-windows-8
Well I reckon that Windows 8 is going to challenge so many Windows fans (keyboard and mouse users), that I may well make a lot of them switch over to Apple :eek:
I really don't like it at all, but it will be interesting to see how it performs on a tablet? It should have been two releases IMO, one version for a keyboard/mouse and one version for a tablet. We shall see what happens . . .
Well you've actually used it, so I'll bow to your experience, but I must admit I like the idea of one device which is both a tablet and a notebook - I know we already have them, but it looks like W8 is designed to cater for that sort of device. For me, the problem is that a tablet is brilliant for general browsing and reading email, but as soon as I want to do anything serious or more in depth then keyboard and mouse it is. I've been using Office 2010 for a while now too, and I think it is brilliant, so I'm quite "wedded" to MS, at least for work. The idea of one portable device that can be expanded or not as needed is very appealing, I must say - but the proof of the pudding... :)
I think you are right Alex, for that type of usage it sounds very promising, if not ideal. My dislike for it (and there are hoards who agree), is its clunky interface for someone who prefers a traditional screen, keyboard and mouse - be that a desktop PC or a laptop. Those users are the backbone of Microsoft's client base and will be the deal breakers I guess, if they don't take to it.
I just feel Microsoft are too late to the party as far as the tablet market goes. I don't like Apple as a company, but there is no denying the iPad is the market leader by a considerable margin and if I didn't have a moral objection to how they operate, I would have bought an iPad over an Android tablet as its the better product. If they got over themselves a bit and tore down that dictatorial wall that surrounds their products, I think they would clean up.
Interesting times ahead I think for Microsoft and Nokia?
Guys, I think you need to actually use W8 in anger to learn about its good and bad points. There is also a big difference between desktop PC and tablet usage and I'll guarantee that Microsoft have a winner for the tablet market despite my not having used that variant yet. I know that from what I have learned using W8 on a desktop in a working environment, together with what I know about my WP7 phone - which is a VERY good phone OS.
Some good points of W8 desktop are that it's very fast for the same hardware, it's stable, the Modern UI (can't call it Metro any more) is a take-it-or-leave-it interface, cloud integration with SkyDrive and the Microsoft Shop is superb, you get a perfectly good e-mail client thrown in for free and it works with all the software we've thrown at it including educational enterprise software like SIMS.
Office 2013 also makes it a very powerful work tool, again with cloud awareness built-in.
The bad point is that the gestures are not intuitive and therefore there is a fairly steep learning curve. However, you can set it up almost like W7 if you like, and you'll still benefit from the significant performance boost.
There's a huge amount of bollox being written about it and I suggest that cutting through the crap and trying it out is the only way to find out if you're going to like it.
Me, I'm looking at buying either a Microsoft Surface or the gorgeous new Lenovo as soon as they become available.
EDIT: PC Pro have given a full review of W8 on both platforms this month and have concluded largely as I have. "Windows 8 has seen Microsoft’s OS embrace touch in a big way, and it’s by and large a roaring success".
Hi chaps,
I read somewhere that W8 as a media server sounds better than W7... Could be interesting to try it, especially as Microsoft are going to do a very low cost upgrade offer for the launch.
As for the product, I think it's going to be a disaster for Microsoft, pushing them into terminal decline. It will alienate their core customers, as its apparently not very good for desktop PCs. You are right about having 2 OSes, one for tablets and one for desktops, as apple have done.
My next PC will be a Mac :scratch:. If my business software worked on a Mac, I'd already be there.
I'm interested by your comments here Tim:
I just feel Microsoft are too late to the party as far as the tablet market goes. I don't like Apple as a company, but there is no denying the iPad is the market leader by a considerable margin and if I didn't have a moral objection to how they operate, I would have bought an iPad over an Android tablet as its the better product. If they got over themselves a bit and tore down that dictatorial wall that surrounds their products, I think they would clean up.
Desktop PC sales are sliding so Microsoft are trying to win a share of the tablet action by using W8 to give the best of both worlds. Unless they can make a tablet thats good at productivity, as well as content consumption, it will fail. I reckon that unless their new Surface tablet is half the iPad price, it will fail.
If you believe the rumours, apple will have their iPad mini out before the end of the year, which will kill the nexus 7 and others stone dead overnight.
I think "the wall" that you talk about is one of the reasons why apple products are so successful. There's no tweaking, fiddling, reloading the OS, BSODs etc. unlike windows. The hardware is designed to work 100% in harmony with the software. For the techies it's no good because it works with no user intervention. For the average man in the street, it (generally) just works.
People talk about the moral issues around apple, but I can't see any problem at all. All I see is a innovative and successful company that is very customer focused.
Just my 2p worth.
There's no tweaking, fiddling, reloading the OS, BSODs etc. unlike windows. The hardware is designed to work 100% in harmony with the software. For the techies it's no good because it works with no user intervention. For the average man in the street, it (generally) just works.
For most parts that is true simply because the combinations of hardware to be supported are limited. And the programs are more "basic" ie less confusion for non-techies.
But that does not mean that OSX can not have problems and can crash.
At the end of the day its all speculation, the proof will be in the pudding. I will no doubt buy it and the release candidate may differ from what I tried anyway. I will certainly be trying one of their tablets, but I may keep 7 on my desktop. If it sounds any better than 7 then all well and good too and it will go on my server.
Don't get me wrong Martin, I hope they pull it off as I don't want to use anything but MS products and they have certainly invested heavily in 8. We shall see what happens :eyebrows:
as its apparently not very good for desktop PCs.
Sorry, Martin, but this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about. Apparently? So you haven't tried it yourself?
I've been running it constantly on a test bed at work for the last three months and it really is rather good. On a tablet it'll be stunning. A thousand times better than the iPad walled-garden approach where apps can't talk to each other or easily share docs or info, with the file system not easily made use of.
Reid Malenfant
23-08-2012, 17:58
Well I reckon that Windows 8 is going to challenge so many Windows fans (keyboard and mouse users), that I may well make a lot of them switch over to Apple :eek:
I don't see why Tim :scratch:
I'm still getting along like a house of fire with XP Pro, which incidentally is or will still be supported by Microsoft until some time in 2014. It'll still work after that, just no security updates :)
So it may be 2014 when I switch to Windows 7 :rfl:
No need to keep buying new operating systems imho.
some time in 2014. It'll still work after that, just no security updates :)
April 2014 I think Mark - so you are good for sometime yet ;)
I still have XP Pro on one of my machines at work, but I do much prefer Windows 7. One thing I will say about 8 is that it boots very quickly and has a very small footprint, so it runs on current hardware very efficiently. So whats under the hood works well.
Sorry, Martin, but this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about. Apparently? So you haven't tried it yourself?
I've been running it constantly on a test bed at work for the last three months and it really is rather good. On a tablet it'll be stunning. A thousand times better than the iPad walled-garden approach where apps can't talk to each other or easily share docs or info, with the file system not easily made use of.
No I haven't tried it for myself and I'd probably find it to be OK, as I'm a techie myself. Ive read a load of reviews and they nearly all say the same thing - that the desktop experience is not good. Even the "positive" PC PRO review said it will probably be vista mk 2.
Actually, my post above doesnt say that I think the product is crap. I just think that the average man or woman in the street may be alienated by the poor user experience that everyone is reporting. As you say Tim, the proof of the pudding...
And don't forget that it's not just the hardware and software that make a roaring success in the tablet market. It's the number and quality of applications, availability of content etc. that makes the difference IMHO. I don't think Microsoft is very good at that sort of thing.
Actually, I'd like to see other companies competing with alternatives to the market leader, but I think they have got their work cut out on that one.
If you believe the rumours, apple will have their iPad mini out before the end of the year, which will kill the nexus 7 and others stone dead overnight.
Sorry Martin, but I just flat out disagree with this. I think you'll find that most Android users are Android users for a reason, i.e. they don't want to be locked into an Apple product. I'm a classic example of this as I actually wanted to like the iPad - bought one in fact from John Lewis, but it went back 3 days later when I found out it wouldn't do what I wanted it too and I had no wish to jailbreak it. All the Android users I know share this same opinion. I agree we are in the minority and most Apple users wouldn't have a clue about tinkering with their gadgets, or want to, they just want them to work which Apple in the main do.
I have no doubt if they do produce a mini iPad it will prove to be very popular, but kill of Android 7" tablets? I would stake my no claims bonus on that being wrong. And by then MS will be in the mix too with their tablets, its going to be an interesting time.
but kill off Android 7" tablets?
If a "mini iPad" is <£159 then it possibly would - but we all know that isn't going to happen! At least £100 more for an 8gb base version would be my guess.
I won't be moving to W8 unless there's an option to sidestep 'cloud' use and having to be beholden to an MS account just to use the damn thing. I like to have my data stored where it is least likely to fall into someone else's hands, ergo at home. IMO W7 is the best OS MS has produced to date. I have it installed on every machine bar one in our household (which runs XP out of necessity), and not one of the installations has ever thrown a wobbly. It just works.
Like some others here I have a natural aversion to the way Apple operates as a company. I've no problem with those who like Apple and their products, they are free to spend their money any way they wish, but these days, and IMO, Apple are what MS were at their height, overbearing and dictatorial. Their products are also extraordinarily expensive for what they are.
Excuse me if I'm being thick here (it does happen) but what would you want to do with an iPad that you can't because it's "locked in" or walled in? I've never had a problem with mine or felt that I needed to do something that I couldn't.:scratch:. I also have an android phone (samsung s2) running ICS and the user experience just isn't a patch on the iPad (even taking the screen size into account). I run pretty much the same apps on both and the iPad apps are much more developed, slicker and have updates out first. The eBay and spotify apps for iPad are true masterpieces. The android and windows ones: oh dear :rolleyes:
Bear in mind what it was designed to do. Surf the net, email, play games, watch tv and movies, run apps etc and it's truly a great, great product. The iPad sales figures bear this out. I say it's the best product that I've ever bought ( and Ive got some nice stuff) and I was a true anti apple person before my dad convinced me to get it.
I can't understand why people say that they don't like how apple operate and no one has been able or willing to explain why. Why do you call them dictatorial and overbearing? They don't tell me what to do or push things on me. I don't buy anything from the iTunes store and they don't harass me for that. They don't spam me with rubbish marketing emails. Best of all, they didn't load my machine with trial software and other sh!t before selling it to me. All they did was offer me a great product that does everything that I want it to do. No strings attached.
Cheers,
Amen Brother! Bought an iPad when they first came out...fan bloomin tastic...still going strong, switched my work laptop to a Mac Book Air last year at my own expense after soooo much frustration with Windows XP and then 7....never looked back...its a real revalation a very very positive one.
As for being 'locked in' do me a favour...buy an android phone and....errrr...your're locked in! Same as. :doh:
If you want to be a devil with Apple you can always jailbreak your iPhone or iPad :eyebrows:
If you are happy with your Apple products Martin then that's great, they obviously do what you want them to do. IMO I find their products to be overpriced and lacking in functionality in comparison with their competitors (although I will admit they have taken strides to close the gap recently). My main bugbear is that their handheld products don't have user replaceable batteries and I believe the iPad has no usb or SD Card ports. This is an inexcusable omission in my book. As for the 'locked in' aspect, what if you want to download flash player? Regardless of whether you might want to or not, you can't because Apple dictate that you can't. In fact Apple decides which apps are made available for download without any input from the user base. Android app downloads are not restricted at all. If one is willing to put in a little effort there are some really good Android apps available. As for the official Android ebay app, it really is very good indeed. It's been updated recently and is now super-slick. I can't comment on the Android Spotify app as I don't have a premium Spotify account therefore I'm not entitled to use it.
...at first the lack of flash on the iPad really got to me but now a few years on with so much more HTML 5 stuff available it only gets my goat occasionally. I can watch youtube and I can watch BBC iPlayer fine, my MacBook Air of course has no such issues. Sometime when visiting a web site the lack of flash support on the iPad is a real blessing!
If you are happy with your Apple products Martin then that's great, they obviously do what you want them to do. IMO I find their products to be overpriced and lacking in functionality in comparison with their competitors (although I will admit they have taken strides to close the gap recently). My main bugbear is that their handheld products don't have user replaceable batteries and I believe the iPad has no usb or SD Card ports. This is an inexcusable omission in my book. As for the 'locked in' aspect, what if you want to download flash player? Regardless of whether you might want to or not, you can't because Apple dictate that you can't. In fact Apple decides which apps are made available for download without any input from the user base. Android app downloads are not restricted at all. If one is willing to put in a little effort there are some really good Android apps available. As for the official Android ebay app, it really is very good indeed. It's been updated recently and is now super-slick. I can't comment on the Android Spotify app as I don't have a premium Spotify account therefore I'm not entitled to use it.
Hi Dave,
Some good points there - I've not had to replace a battery yet but it cost £85 for the service, which I think is acceptable.
I have the camera connection kit (£4 from amazon) which gives USB and SD connection, although you need a powered USB hub for some devices, as the power available is quite low. When I first got he thing, I wanted to move some files around between SD cards and found that there was no file explorer. As a windows veteran, I thought this was crazy. But actually, it's no big deal. Now I just email stuff to and from it and it's actually easier. Printing is a no-no, unless you've got a compatible printer, but again it's not a big issue.
The flash player thing was the one thing that I thought would be the deal breaker and there are some sites that still use flash. Hand on heart, it's never been an issue in reality. Apparently apple won't allow it because its so resource hungry and because of stability and security issues and now that adobe are dropping it, it's not a problem for the future.
I think the philosophy behind the app store scrutineering is to ensure that dodgy apps are filtered out. I think that a lot of people think they are controlling and overbearing when actually they do things to ensure that the user experience is top notch.
Anyway, I've got my iPad, 4 windows PCs and an android phone and they are all great at what they were designed for. I still think the iPad is the best though :ner: :)
A good reply Martin :)
Frankly, Apple must be doing something right or they wouldn't be shifting as many products as they so obviously do. From a personal perspective I grew up with Windows, so I guess that is why I am more comfortable in an MS environment (I still have an original Windows 3.0 installation pack lurking around somewhere on three 3.5" single sided floppy disks). I do put great store in the fact that Windows is pretty versatile and of course in its early years it was a great tool for cash strapped computer geeks like myself who would beg, steal or borrow components from like-minded individuals, assemble them back at home, acquire a Windows installation pack et voila, one working PC (oh I really wish it had been that easy :lol:). The thing is, for me that was the fun part. I didn't want (and couldn't afford) to buy a computer off the shelf and besides, I got such a sense of achievement over the years from building my own machines and then nurturing them into a working condition. Weirdly, each machine had it's own character too.
The very first PC I assembled really didn't work well. It crashed, a lot. I cannot remember who made the mobo but it was very basic and housed an AMD 133mhz Pentium clone cpu and 256mb of memory. There was a Windows 3.1 install (later, Win95) and Paint Shop Pro version 6 on a 180mb hard drive as I recall. Along with an S3 Virge 32mb ISA graphics card it also sported a 3DFX Voodoo One 3D accelerator that worked via a pass-through cable that plugged into the S3. The sound card was probably the best bargain component that went into the machine. It was a Creative Soundblaster Awe32 which had only been on sale for about four months and was a pretty hefty sum from a dealer. Mine cost me a pair of cheap 10x40 Tasco binos :D A mixed bag for sure and with such a tiny HD it taught me to manage my resources well I can tell you, a habit that is still with me today... :lol:
I think Apple are sort of where MS used to be 10 to 15 years ago as regards to overall market share, except Apple have an added advantage due to the fact they produce their own hardware. I understand fully the appeal of Apple's products, particularly to the younger generation because their design ethos is so very slick, however I'm not convinced of their products durability. For example, my nephew has owned numerous iterations of the iPod in recent years and they have all fallen by the wayside due to component failures. From bitter experience I can tell you that Apples aftersales service is probably the worst I've ever encountered. Recently he picked up an early 20gb iPod from a work mate for 100 pounds. It's in fantastic condition and built like a tank (these models were US made). What's more he says the sound quality is far, far superior to that of the more recent iterations he's owned. Progress ain't all it's cracked up to be so it would seem... ;)
I won't be moving to W8 unless there's an option to sidestep 'cloud' use and having to be beholden to an MS account just to use the damn thing.
You don't have to use any of the cloud features, Dave. They are just there if you need them.
Excuse me if I'm being thick here (it does happen) but what would you want to do with an iPad that you can't because it's "locked in" or walled in?
Each to their own, Martin, and I don't want to start a platform war here. Suffice to say that my iPad lies disused most days as I find it so hopelessly inadequate for the things that I do. My Lenovo ultraportable running W7 leaves it for dead in all areas except battery life.
Back to W8 and I'm looking forward to the kind of productivity that I so welcome in my WP7 phone. A single repository for documents, shared between apps. Totally integrated SkyDrive if you want it. Contacts from all sources merged into one, with links between, say, FB and LinkedIn people. It just works, and works very well. Over 100,000 apps as well now, enough to ensure that pretty much everything you need is there now. Some are outstanding, like the BBC News app and Boardworks forum app.
@ Dave, I started off like you, building and upgrading my PCs since W95. I used to spend hours tinkering away and really enjoyed the experience. Now I'm more of a "user" and simply want the hardware and software to disappear. In fact I bought my first pre-built PC only a month ago and I'm really happy with it as a music server.
I've not experienced the apple customer service yet, so that could be interesting, if and when I do. I've got a customer who is a PC/Mac repair man, so I think I'd call him first. Interestingly, he always recommends to his customers to buy a mac, especially if they are less tech savvy. He gets much less work from his mac customers than his windows ones, as they don't need so much tech support.
@Martin - agreed, it's good to have a choice, so you can choose the best product to suit your needs. I use a PC for work and my iPad for fun.
I reckon that productivity will be the key to windows 8 success on a tablet. The iPad just isn't good for that, despite what some people say.
Yep, that's it exactly Martin. I'm all for platform choice and won't just go blindly down one alley. I hope W8 is successful if only because it'll keep Apple and the Androids on their toes. Healthy competition means better products for everyone.
Back to W8 and I'm looking forward to the kind of productivity that I so welcome in my WP7 phone.
Productivity - THAT's what I'm talking about - to me it looks like W8 "gets" how people live and work these days.
I think that the decision by MS to make their own tablet (albeit in partnership) is a bold one , especially as it seems to have upset a few of their traditional hardware manufacturing customers. This will mean that they have complete control of the whole user experience a la Apple.
Should be interesting.
This will mean that they have complete control of the whole user experience a la Apple.
Should be interesting.
Maybe this could be rephrased to "This will mean that they 'could' have complete control of the whole user experience a la Apple."
If they did that they would I think be making a big mistake and I very much doubt Microsoft will do it.
I'm not going to get into a 'why don't I like Apple discussion' again, as I have been there on AoS before and on a couple of other forums too. Read Pete Townsend's John Peel lecture and this will give you an idea why I dislike them. It's in the main down to iTunes, but there are many other reasons. It doesn't make me a bad person, but I really have a problem with them and their ethos and as I absolutely refuse to install iTunes on any of my computers, an Apple product is pretty much useless to me.
As to iPads etc, I think Android is for geeks and Apple is for the masses, very simplified I know, but that's my take on it.
Thanks for the heads up on the John peel lecture.
Not sure that I understand what the problem is, as iTunes is just a distributor of music, not a record company. Surely it's still the record companys job to do the nurturing and marketing?
Maybe because it has been so successful, apple can demand more of the profits without putting anything back in? Pretty much the same situation as the supermarkets, I reckon. Not good :(
Anyway, I don't want an argument either, just want to understand why some people are so against apple. To me it's a similar situation to the anti microsoft feeling when they were on top.
I wonder when the Linux hate will start? :lol:
Thanks for the heads up on the John peel lecture.
Not sure that I understand what the problem is, as iTunes is just a distributor of music, not a record company. Surely it's still the record companys job to do the nurturing and marketing?
Maybe because it has been so successful, apple can demand more of the profits without putting anything back in? Pretty much the same situation as the supermarkets, I reckon. Not good :(
This issue with Apple is that it works really well if you stick to the Apple products/services. If you want to go outside the Apple services such as iTunes you end up with all sorts of grief. So Apple's business model is to restrict your choice but for many their software/services lock-in works well....and it provides a massive revenue stream for Apple.
An example: I've not owned an iPhone but my brother-in-law does. He still doesn't like that to get a ring tune for it he has to go through iTunes. Every other phone he's used he simply clicks on the track to set it as his ring tune.
apple can demand more of the profits without putting anything back in?
. . . and as a huge music fan, this means a lot to me ;)
This article pretty much mirrors my Windows 8 expereince . . .
'Confusing' Windows 8 is a 'cognitive burden' (http://www.zdnet.com/usability-expert-confusing-windows-8-is-a-cognitive-burden-7000002918/)
Windows 7 64 bit till they make it impossible to use or illegal. I'm done with constantly upgrading something that works just fine.
Being in a fist fight with hardware and clashing software issues and a big new learning curve, NO THANX!
If I have absolutely nothing at all to do but that, I still wouldn't take 1 minute to upgrade,I'd rather stare at a wall and count how meany times I blink in an hour.
WINDOWS 8 HUMBUG!!!
VISTA VICTIM 197,314,325,901
Another review by a well respected IT journalist:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/realworld/376567/honeyball-on-windows-8 (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/realworld/376567/honeyball-on-windows-8-its-a-car-crash)
tubehunter
29-08-2012, 12:34
I've found that streaming my flac files using Windows 8/foobar sounds better than Windows 7/foobar!
I don't know why? but I'm keeping Windows 8:)
I've found that streaming my flac files using Windows 8/foobar sounds better than Windows 7/foobar!
I don't know why? but I'm keeping Windows 8:)
Interesting. Have you done AB testing or from memory?
Windows 8 upgrade will be priced at £25.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/376621/update-now-microsoft-says-windows-8-upgrade-is-25
tubehunter
29-08-2012, 18:22
from memory.
This is an interesting read
http://www.roland.co.uk/blog/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications?utm_campaign=windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss
and could be the reason for the improvement.
The new Microsoft Surface tablet will be launched on the 26th, with prices at around the same level as the iPad. The keyboard cover will cost an extra £80 ish.
On the 23rd, the new ipad mini will allegedly launch, with prices starting at £200 for the 8GB model.
...and on the 29th October, Windows Phone 8 will launch.
I shall be rallying every Nectar point I have and placing orders on Amazon soon. Oh the dilemma, do I go with a Surface RT tablet now (the heart says yes) or the full blown Intel jobby later (the brain says wait)? Really, I need the Intel version in order to run all the IT tools I use at work. However, the purity of RT is attractive.
In the meantime, a WP8 phone is a no-brainer as WP7 for me has been a fantastic success. Best phone OS ever. So it'll be between an HTC 8X and Nokia 920 or possibly the Samsung ATIV-S.
Be wary of the early adopter curse! :D
I usually am, but I've been beta testing W8 for a long time now.
Id wait for the big boys intel version. Or get both!
Id wait for the big boys intel version. Or get both!
I think I'm going to, Martin. I already have an unloved iPad, I don't want another tablet to accumulate cobwebs. The last tablet I had which was brilliant was the Compaq TC1000 and that is still under my desk and still works!
I think I'm going to, Martin. I already have an unloved iPad, I don't want another tablet to accumulate cobwebs. The last tablet I had which was brilliant was the Compaq TC1000 and that is still under my desk and still works!
Would you consider selling your iPad to me? I'm thinking of buying one for my 15 year old son, as he's had a terrible year and could do with some cheering up!
Cheers,
Sorry, can't do as it's work provided :eek:
Sorry, can't do as it's work provided :eek:
Ah, that could be a problem!;:rolleyes:
Beechwoods
17-10-2012, 18:27
Sorry, can't do as it's work provided :eek:
:lol: All I get from work is a Windows XP Lenovo that even thieves wouldn't touch, and a Blackberry Curve (with all the useful bits turned off, like the web-browser, camera, GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth... etc) :lol:
:lol: All I get from work is a Windows XP Lenovo that even thieves wouldn't touch, and a Blackberry Curve (with all the useful bits turned off, like the web-browser, camera, GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth... etc) :lol:
Nooooooooooooo! At least I choose my work-provided kit, the advantages of running my empire. I have a gorgeous Lenovo Edge 11 with SSD & 3G running W7 Pro that goes everywhere with me. My phone is an HTC Titan running WP7. I'm quite content!
brian2957
17-10-2012, 18:55
I work for the NHS and I'm lucky if I get a pen these days :lol:
walpurgis
17-10-2012, 19:00
Well I'm sticking with my XP equipped Acer L100. An old OS in an unpopular mini desktop, it works like lightning, which is more than I can say for any Vista or Win 7 computer I've tried.
which is more than I can say for any Vista or Win 7 computer I've tried.
A little misinformed, Geoff. In at least 2GB (and RAM is dead cheap these days), W7 will outperform XP in the same hardware. I have upgraded countless different machines at work and this rule has always held true.
walpurgis
17-10-2012, 20:21
A little misinformed, Geoff. In at least 2GB (and RAM is dead cheap these days), W7 will outperform XP in the same hardware. I have upgraded countless different machines at work and this rule has always held true.
No, not misinformed Martin. I refered to the several I'd tried, which have not been great.
Vista yes, but a 2GB Win7 machine really is a significant step forward from an XP machine Geoff - sorry, but Martin is right. Maybe you were not doing a like for like comparison on the same machine?
Reid Malenfant
17-10-2012, 21:14
Vista yes, but a 2GB Win7 machine really is a significant step forward from an XP machine Geoff - sorry, but Martin is right. Maybe you were not doing a like for like comparison on the same machine?
I'm not sure that is actually possible Tim :scratch:
An old PC will not accept the latest type of RAM, which is significantly faster, which probably would gives Windoze 7 an advantage, maybe XP to now I think about it.
Like Geoff I'm still happy with XP, a 7,200 RPM HDD & 2GB of RAM works wonders, not that the old Acer liked that amount of RAM very much, but when it booted it flew :lol:
Been using the Dell XPS I bought off of Joe (Blackadder) for a while now as it doesn't have a faulty ethernet connection. That is also now fitted with a 7,200 RPM drive, & is fitted with 2GB of RAM as standard.
I guess to get the best from Win 7 you need to have a more modern machine with ultrafast RAM & bus speed, then it probably will leave XP for dust :scratch:
walpurgis
17-10-2012, 21:33
I don't think Tim or Martin quite got the point I made. I wasn't implying XP is better, I'm saying that my experience of Vista and 7 has not impressed.
No, not misinformed Martin. I refered to the several I'd tried, which have not been great.
Mirrors my experience as well! :eyebrows:
I've had a very positive experience with Win7. I use the 64bit version on both my desktop and laptop and have done for a very long time and neither machine has missed a beat. I find it intuitive and reliable (no BSOD's, ever). I can't stand Vista though, horrible piece of unreliable cr*p.
We also have two machines running XP (kids desktop and my netbook) and although I used to hate it (much proffering Win98), these days it is very well sorted and it fairly rips along on my four year old, single core Advent netbook, especially since I fitted an extra gig of ram, upping it to 2GB's.
No, not misinformed Martin. I refered to the several I'd tried, which have not been great.
That doesn't respond to the statement I made, but never mind.
I guess to get the best from Win 7 you need to have a more modern machine with ultrafast RAM & bus speed, then it probably will leave XP for dust :scratch:
Nope - let me rephrase my previous statement, then: for any given machine with at least 2GB of RAM (any type of RAM), W7 will run faster on it than XP. We have upgraded machines that are verging on 10 years old and, provided they can be upgraded to 2GB, this holds true.
Nope - let me rephrase my previous statement, then: for any given machine with at least 2GB of RAM (any type of RAM), W7 will run faster on it than XP. We have upgraded machines that are verging on 10 years old and, provided they can be upgraded to 2GB, this holds true.
That's 32bit Win7 though Martin, 64bit prefers 4gb to run comfortably ;)
That's 32bit Win7 though Martin, 64bit prefers 4gb to run comfortably ;)
Yes indeed, I won't put 64-bit into machines that don't take 4GB. Luckily most of our fleet of laptops (all Lenovo) can take 4GB and I'm just about finished with 64-bit migration. Lovely and fast and very stable.
StanleyB
18-10-2012, 07:24
I have been using W7 X64 in two 2GB laptops. Once I fitted a SSD hard disk in them they have been working fine without any buffering delays etc.
put a SSD and plenty of RAM into any box... what is not to love
at home my trusty Vaio F12 is getting Win8 but my music server and the big iron remains on Win7; there are no need upgrading them.
At Work it is a bit different, as we develop programs for WP/Android/IOS and for touch screens (win7) we are going to switch to Win8 and Visual Studio 2012 in a few weeks.
For the NeXT couple of installations we will use win7 for the touch PCs, but will shift to win8 early NeXT year.
I'm just moving my home machine to W8-64 tonight. Have a new SSD to implement and didn't see the point of putting W7 back in seeing as I'm rebuilding. Always better to go with a clean install and reinstall apps. Easy to put all the docs and data back in place. I'll also upgrade to Office 2013 while I'm at it. That's the benefit of having a work volume licence agreement :) Should be fully up and running by the morning.
Phew - just before 2am and I've got it all running, W8, updates, account, Office 2013, e-mail, documents. Lovely and fast, makes this old Athlon FX60 seem like a Core i5.
I'm still deciding if/when to try it Martin - read some reports that its allegedly a better O/S as an audio platform.
It's certainly idiosyncratic and I've taken some time with it, both at work and now at home. Because you do many things differently it's tempting to rail at it, but I'm learning the Modern interface way of doing things and there's always desktop, which as near as dammit works like W7.
Boy is it fast! Bootup from powered off takes about 10s.
Is there much difference to the Beta version? It is as you say fast, very lean which I can only conclude means they have cut out a lot of bloat, which would follow if people think it 'sounds' better than 7. I wonder if that's it sounds better on a standard install, or a tweaked Win7?
I have a few spare hard drives so I guess I should get it, I will need it for work anyway, shame its me that has to buy it, not the bloody job :(
I would think on an SSD it would fly.
Is it fast because its fast or because its a new installation?
My biggest gripe with windows is its ability to automatically fuck itself up the more you use it :doh:
On my iPad, it doesn't lose performance as you add more apps and if you uninstall something it doesn't leave orphan files everywhere on the hdd. The performance is as crisp as on the day that it was born ;)
If they could somehow solve this, it would be so much better IMHO.
Incidentally, the price for the W8 upgrade is now £50, not the £25 announced a couple of months ago. Looks like I won't be taking a punt :(
Cheers,
Is it fast because its fast or because its a new installation?
No, its a very fast O/S Martin and very lean on resources too. I have a number of clean HDD's at home which I use for testing software functions etc. A clean install of Win8 not only boots much faster than a clean install of Win7, but in use its faster too. I have only tried it in beta mind you, but I cannot imagine the final release product is gong to be inferior.
As for Windows 'fucking itself up' my only comment to that is I have not had a Windows O/S fuck itself up since the first release of XP (and I use Windows O/S' all day every day), but I skipped Vista. Windows 7 is a very competent O/S and extremely stable. A lot of Windows errors are down to the user IMHO. Additionally, a lot of people blame a Windows crash on the O/S when its often the cheap hardware its running on, which is a problem Apple don't have. However, I always buy well selected and premium quality components, especially the PSU and never experience so called 'fuck ups'. Buy cheap and that's what happens, hardware makes a huge difference to computer stability, more so than the O/S.
Blaming the O/S alone is an ill informed opinion, as there is nothing wrong with a modern Windows installation on competent hardware, but a cheap £299.00 PC with all manner of crap installed on it is asking for problems which are not down to Microsoft.
I didn't mean crashes really, just that over time, the performance drops off.
After all, the phrase "clean windows installation" was coined for a good reason ;)
For instance, my work PC (xp) is only used for email, browsing, word, excel, and my 3d design software. Over the last 6 months its got slower and slower to boot and performance is generally sluggish. I'm sure a clean install would do the trick, but why is that meccessary?:scratch:
My home PC is fine on w7, but when my son uses it for gaming, it needs a double reboot to reset itself. If I don't reboot it, it's like computing in treacle :eek:
BTW, I don't buy low cost anything - just ask my wife or bank manager!
If w8 can fix this, I'll be a happy man.
Toying wiht teh idea of upgrading from 7 x64 Pro...
as long as the desktop is in there SOMEWHERE I can cope.
theres bound to be a lot of fixes under the bonnet that aren't advertised.
Can I download a x64 trial anywhere?
My home PC is fine on w7, but when my son uses it for gaming, it needs a double reboot to reset itself.
Exactly my point Martin ;)
Exactly my point Martin ;)
I thought that running games was a legitimate use for a pc.
I fact MS make and sell pc games, dont they?
I think with the games thing its a memory allocation problem. I do have 4 gb though.
Is there much difference to the Beta version?
Yes, the RTM version fixes a lot of bugs and is very stable.
I thought that running games was a legitimate use for a pc.
Personally I detest computer games but the real point is that games software companies often use non-documented APIs and rogue methods that destabilise the OS. They are pretty well known as the worst examples of programming and a good reason why I never allow them on my computers (as my son well knew when he lived with me).
Anyway Martin (Martinh) this is a thread discussing the merits of Windows 8, lets not go down the 'why I don't like Windows' route again and how much better Apple is, its been done to death so lets just agree to disagree and be happy with our chosen platforms ;)
Anyway Martin (Martinh) this is a thread discussing the merits of Windows 8, lets not go down the 'why I don't like Windows' route again and how much better Apple is, its been done to death so lets just agree to disagree and be happy with our chosen platforms ;)
Yes, agreed and I apologise if it sounded like that.
Actually, I do use windows as my primary OS. It just baffles me why these sorts of issues haven't been addressed. Or have they been addressed? Surely todays computer should act more like an appliance, bearing in mind that the average PC user doesn't know anything about what's going on underneath?
I've come to the conclusion that my son shouldn't be allowed to run his games on my PC any more.
BTW, I'm a bit miffed with apple these days, because they released an update to the iPad OS that is actually worse than the one it replaced. And they did it for commercial reasons, not putting the customer first. :mental:
As I bought my music server/player in July this year, I qualify for a £15 upgrade to w8 Pro when it arrives :)
I bought my machine with w7 home 64 bit, so that's a result.
They send you a code and it allows you to download the files to your machine.
Do you think it's worth it? For a headless music player?
Cheers,
What about using a touchscreen monitor with a desktop PC running windows 8? Now, that would be cool!
I often find myself reaching out to my monitors (2 x 22" in extended desktop mode) out of tablet habit.
And why not use MS kinect gestures via a webcam to control applications, input etc.
Come on Microsoft, where's the leading edge innovation gone?
Actually, Martin, I've been thinking of doing just that. I wanted to upgrade my Samsung 22" for a 24", but I'll wait until I can get a touch version now.
Actually, Martin, I've been thinking of doing just that. I wanted to upgrade my Samsung 22" for a 24", but I'll wait until I can get a touch version now.
Let us know how it works when you do. I guess it will need to be multi touch, no lag and super sensitive to be effective. Could be expensive?
I was looking at the new surface tablet and they are going to be pushing just that - touch screen with keyboard and touchpad on the cover. Could be a great combo.
Cheers,
I bought myself a very cheap SanDisk 128GB SSD recently, with a view to installing the W8 OS on it and re-using my existing Samsung SpinPoint 750GB drive for documents & data. The Samsung was a PC Pro A-listed hard disk not that long ago, so it's a great performing spinner. I wanted to know what an SSD could bring to W8 performance. The answer is: a lot! However, pure performance measurements only tell half the story.
My motherboard is an old ECS KN1 SLI Extreme (an old gamer's mobo) running an AMD Athlon FX60 2.6GHz dual-core CPU. The SATA interfaces are all SATA-II, so only 3Gbps not the 6Gbps throughput that the SSD is capable of. It's not a firebrand PC by any means (certainly not compared with my serious quad-core beast at work). Here are the HD Tune results:
Samsung SpinPoint HD753LJ
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8340/8221908770_abe1fb54d5_z.jpg
SanDisk SSD
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8347/8221908582_29cf1b2bcb_z.jpg
So the SSD is 66% faster than the HD on average data transfer. Doesn't sound enough? Take a keener look at the average access time: nearly 46 times faster to get to the start of a file, no matter where it is on the drive. This is where SSDs score, especially in the hundreds of small disk transactions that occur every minute. Don't worry about the burst speed, this seems to be a peculiarity of SSD measurements (there essentially isn't much cache since the SSD is non-volatile RAM in the first place), which I double-checked against the SSDs in both my work machines.
The overall feel of this W8-64 4GB machine is that it goes like a rocket. Boot-up time is most impressive: about 8s from the start of the boot sequence to the login screen. W7 doesn't come close, even with a faster SSD and faster CPU.
My guess is that Microsoft have built a lot of SSD optimisations into W8, much more than just support for TRIM. This makes sense when you look at the big target market of tablet PCs without a rotating disk. Whatever the reasons, for the outlay of £50 for pretty much the cheapest SSD out there, this drive combined with W8 is a no-brainer.
Very interesting Martin, thanks for sharing. Not sure when, but my next build is not far away, I already have the case and a new Seasonic fanless PSU - it's going to be a totally silent desktop PC with just a single 256GB SSD and all main data storage elsewhere, either a NAS or purpose built Windows file server - no more noisy fans for me, even in my main machine :)
I guess it makes sense that it should be a Windows 8 machine and as I have easy access hot swap bays, I can just pop a Windows 7 O/S drive in if needed.
Very interesting indeed Martin and thanks for sharing your results. Looks good.
It's a shame that those SanDisk 128 GB SSDs have gone up in price again :(
One question for you - do you know if its still possible to have windows programs ( I.e. JRiver and Spotify) auto start when windows starts? That's what I currently do on my w7 media player and then control them remotely with a tablet.
I had read that w8 will only start in the app mode and not direct to desktop. Not sure if that's true or not :scratch:
Cheers,
After a little digging around, you put start items (or a shortcut) here:
c:\users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
As a comparison, if you want a really seriously hot SSD running on SATA-III (6Gbps) then you could do a lot worse than a Samsung SSD 830. You do pay for the performance, however.
Samsung SSD 830 :eek:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8061/8220820921_e610e14319_z.jpg
After a little digging around, you put start items (or a shortcut) here:
c:\users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
Thanks for that Martin, looks like there's no excuse for me not to upgrade now :rolleyes:
Does that mean that there's a start menu buried in there somewhere?
As to your last post about the SSD thingamyjig: :)
http://www.rabbitroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nerd-alert.gif
As to your last post about the SSD thingamyjig: :)
http://www.rabbitroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nerd-alert.gif
:lol: it's what I do for a living!
Samsung SSD 830
That's what I went for Martin, a 256GB one :)
Very nice drive, Tim. I'm sure your new NAS server will be as smooth as a smooth thing.
If my rebuilt home PC goes like a rocket, my quad-core turbo nutter bastard machine at work with an SSD 830 goes like a Saturn 5.
:) you obviously enjoy your job Martin. Sounds like good fun too.
I've got an mSATA slot on my MB. Any recommendations for makes and models?
I was thinking of keeping the 750gb HDD for my music files and putting the OS on the mSATA SSD. I guess a 60gb or 128 would suffice?
What do you reckon?
brian2957
22-10-2012, 14:45
Seen this Martin http://www.ebuyer.com/398216-samsung-256gb-830-series-ssd-mz-7pc256b-ww?utm_source=b2c_22-10-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_monday
Hi Martin
I've never used an mSATA SSD but it's just a different physical format. Essentially, you need space for the OS, swap file and future growth. I would say that 60GB is a little tight and suggest that 128GB is ideal. It's the size I use in all my machines.
Hi Martin
I've never used an mSATA SSD but it's just a different physical format. Essentially, you need space for the OS, swap file and future growth. I would say that 60GB is a little tight and suggest that 128GB is ideal. It's the size I use in all my machines.
Hmmm the mSATA SSDs are a fair bit more to buy than the std ones:(, think I might hold off on that upgrade for a bit. And I think it's maybe the CPU that's the performance limiter on my mini PC.
Just looking at the w8 home screen, that would look pretty good on my plasma tv, I reckon. Am I right in saying that the home screen holds apps that you can down load from the MS store? A bit like android market and iTunes app Store?
Also, can you also run traditional windows progs from the home screen, or do you need to go to desktop for that? Would be nice to have a spotify app and tablet remote app. Maybe also JRiver too.
Sorry for all the questions - getting all excited about a bloody MS product!
Yes - everything, both W8 apps and traditional Windows applications, can have a tile on the Start screen. Even if they don't create one, you can often pin a shortcut. Only the apps can have a live tile with updating information. There is no Spotify app as yet, but standard Windows Spotify works fine.
Here's my screen, showing a mixture of both.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8220807915_56d1f99dea_b.jpg
Loaded up the 90 day trial from MS this evening...
Spent a couple of hours on it..counter intuitive or what?
I had thought it was the "shock of the new" but I like to try put various flavours of Linux, dual boot, run VM's all that stuff, so pretty open minded to new ways of doing things.
I'm a keyboard shortcut kinda guy so that doesn't phase me either.
Not for me :scratch:, its final trick was being unable to install my VLink 192 windows driver - OS not recognised :)
Wanted to try if there was any tweaks to the audio subsystem, couldn't even get any sound out of it.
Maybe in 6 months or so I'll take another look.
If anyone is struggling, like Gary, the key to getting on with W8 on a desktop machine are the keyboard shortcuts.
This article is great for summarising most of what you can do. You will see that you have quite a lot more power at your fingertips than W7, but none of it is initially obvious.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.as px
Keyboard shortcuts eh? Takes me back a bit, and they call this progress? :lol:
Always been the way to be productive, Dave. I'm often amused by staff who don't even use the Tab key for 'next field' when they're filling in forms, constantly moving between keyboard and mouse. Or Alt-Tab for switching between open apps, etc.
Sounds like me dat... :D
I suppose Win8 may be okay if you have a touch screen device but I reckon it will alienate 90% of Windows users myself. I have a sneaky feeling MS will end up in a worse situation with Win7 in years to come as they are currently with WinXP, with many users steadfastly refusing to 'upgrade'. I also reckon that Linux will benefit as some disenfranchised Windows users abandon the platform.
I do agree that W8 will alienate many users, indeed it already has. It's an uphill learning experience for sure, and only rewards some effort which not all users will want to give it. I think the Modern/Desktop duality will confuse but I'm fairly sure that Windows 9 will dispense with the Desktop altogether, bringing simplicity back again.
As for Linux, are you sure? It hardly features user friendliness as its key feature, even Ubuntu which is probably the best of them.
Time will tell I suppose... :cool:
I suppose the big question is:
Would you be happy to roll W8 out where you work, bearing in mind the short term chaos and necessary training that would be required?
I'm still going to give it a go on my music player though.
Cheers,
Would you be happy to roll W8 out where you work, bearing in mind the short term chaos and necessary training that would be required?
That's a very good question, Martin, and I've given it some thought.
When I first arrived at my current place of work, 10 years ago, there were a few machines running W2000 and we quickly upgraded them to XP with little fuss and no hardware upgrading.
The dramatic increase in our user base came at this time, when we expanded to four classroom suites, a computer and SMARTboard in each other classroom and laptops for all the staff. This represented the largest delivery of training and refresher courses to both staff and students in my time there. The support hit was mostly down to staff, many of whom were barely computer literate.
Then we had a long period of continuity, notable only for my putting a Vista test machine in the staff room and asking them to play with it and break it. The consensus was that they hated it (and broke it a lot), so I never rolled it out. Good decision.
Contrast this with W7, which was so stable in beta that I rolled it out (32-bit) the moment it went to RTM, upgrading all hardware to 2GB RAM. It has been very well accepted and really stable, another good decision.
This year, we performed another roll-out, this time to W7-64, upgrading all hardware to 4GB RAM and discarding that which couldn't take the memory. The users haven't noticed any change except performance (although we have noticed the incremental improvement in stability due to signed drivers).
So now we come to W8. There is no doubt that W8 absolutely flies in 64-bit form (the only version I would countenance), but what about that duality of the Modern GUI and the traditional desktop? I don't think our students would worry unduly as they adapt so quickly, already being used to a plethora of interfaces as they all have laptops, tablets and phones of every type connected to the network. The teachers on their laptops? That might be more than they can deal with.
There are two factors to consider: the required training and the volume of users. We are a team of three supporting some 300 users.
So my thoughts are that I will deal with the ageing classroom suites first. We bought very nice Lenovo 22" all-in-ones last year for one of the suites so I plan to buy the touchscreen versions next year for the other three suites. These will naturally take W8-64 and the students, I predict, will love them. I guess the cleaners will love them a lot less.
For the teachers, I have no plans to move them off W7-64. It's the perfect OS for their laptops and there is no compelling reason for change. Some schools have moved their staff to tablets and I strongly question the reasoning for it. In fact, one school close to us, with some embarrassment, admitted it had been a poor decision and were moving some staff back to laptops. In a network domain environment, it all has to work seamlessly and laptops with W7-64 do exactly what it says on the tin. Teachers have no patience and little spare time so I have to provide them with productivity first and foremost.
So I guess the answer may be a spilt in how we service the staff and students in the next couple of years.
bobbasrah
23-10-2012, 17:26
So long as that is viable Martin, but MS have a habit of backwards incompatibility issues with upgrades (Vista for instance although that remains an abortion), but hope you are right.
A very interesting synopsis incidentally.....
Thanks for that Martin - it's quite a dilemma and decisions not to take lightly.
You are dead right about the kids being able to pick things up so quickly. Pesky brats...:)
After some research into my £15 W8 Pro upgrade, it turns out that I can install it on any machine, not just the new one. Maybe it will end up on my main desktop machine instead.
In preparation, I have ordered a 128GB Samsung 830 SSD today :eyebrows:
@Gazjam, a bit worrying about the v-link, as I use one too. I thought it didn't need any drivers though?:scratch:
Cheers,
So long as that is viable Martin, but MS have a habit of backwards incompatibility issues with upgrades
Yep. The software that we absolutely have to have compatibility with is SIMS (the enterprise resource software used by many schools), and I've already thoroughly tested it on W8, so no worries there.
However, a lot of educational CD-ROM titles appear to have been written in the Triassic era, some barely working properly on W7 and some not at all. The teachers want them but there comes a time to put my foot down and say no.
Thanks for that Martin - it's quite a dilemma and decisions not to take lightly.
You are dead right about the kids being able to pick things up so quickly. Pesky brats...:)
After some research into my £15 W8 Pro upgrade, it turns out that I can install it on any machine, not just the new one. Maybe it will end up on my main desktop machine instead.
In preparation, I have ordered a 128GB Samsung 830 SSD today :eyebrows:
@Gazjam, a bit worrying about the v-link, as I use one too. I thought it didn't need any drivers though?:scratch:
Cheers,
its the 192 Vlink I have Martin, needs the driver installed as it uses the Xmos usb 2.0 chip (same as the Stello U3 and Hiface 2)
Vlink II is fine - no drivers needed.
Keyboard shortcuts eh? Takes me back a bit, and they call this progress? :lol:
Wot he said :)
If anyone is struggling, like Gary, the key to getting on with W8 on a desktop machine are the keyboard shortcuts.
This article is great for summarising most of what you can do. You will see that you have quite a lot more power at your fingertips than W7, but none of it is initially obvious.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.as px
Good article Martin, I knew the power user stuff was there,but gave up not being able to play music with it!
As I said, a few months when it becomes the "norm" and more drivers are written....
the usual with a new release of Windows I guess?
Yes indeed, Gary. I think we forget the fairly dire driver situation when XP first came out, especially for USB devices.
I'm concerned about your lack of a W8 driver for your DAC. The Caiman just works without issue. Presumably you've tried the W7 driver?
Reid Malenfant
23-10-2012, 22:45
That's a very good question, Martin, and I've given it some thought.
When I first arrived at my current place of work, 10 years ago, there were a few machines running W2000 and we quickly upgraded them to XP with little fuss and no hardware upgrading.
The dramatic increase in our user base came at this time, when we expanded to four classroom suites, a computer and SMARTboard in each other classroom and laptops for all the staff. This represented the largest delivery of training and refresher courses to both staff and students in my time there. The support hit was mostly down to staff, many of whom were barely computer literate.
Then we had a long period of continuity, notable only for my putting a Vista test machine in the staff room and asking them to play with it and break it. The consensus was that they hated it (and broke it a lot), so I never rolled it out. Good decision.
Contrast this with W7, which was so stable in beta that I rolled it out (32-bit) the moment it went to RTM, upgrading all hardware to 2GB RAM. It has been very well accepted and really stable, another good decision.
This year, we performed another roll-out, this time to W7-64, upgrading all hardware to 4GB RAM and discarding that which couldn't take the memory. The users haven't noticed any change except performance (although we have noticed the incremental improvement in stability due to signed drivers).
So now we come to W8. There is no doubt that W8 absolutely flies in 64-bit form (the only version I would countenance), but what about that duality of the Modern GUI and the traditional desktop? I don't think our students would worry unduly as they adapt so quickly, already being used to a plethora of interfaces as they all have laptops, tablets and phones of every type connected to the network. The teachers on their laptops? That might be more than they can deal with.
There are two factors to consider: the required training and the volume of users. We are a team of three supporting some 300 users.
So my thoughts are that I will deal with the ageing classroom suites first. We bought very nice Lenovo 22" all-in-ones last year for one of the suites so I plan to buy the touchscreen versions next year for the other three suites. These will naturally take W8-64 and the students, I predict, will love them. I guess the cleaners will love them a lot less.
For the teachers, I have no plans to move them off W7-64. It's the perfect OS for their laptops and there is no compelling reason for change. Some schools have moved their staff to tablets and I strongly question the reasoning for it. In fact, one school close to us, with some embarrassment, admitted it had been a poor decision and were moving some staff back to laptops. In a network domain environment, it all has to work seamlessly and laptops with W7-64 do exactly what it says on the tin. Teachers have no patience and little spare time so I have to provide them with productivity first and foremost.
So I guess the answer may be a spilt in how we service the staff and students in the next couple of years.
Fantastic post Martin :)
I now have some questions...
Do you get any kind of discount for purchasing the new operating systems for PCs, because as far as I'm aware you need to buy one package for each PC due to licensing conditions :scratch:
If so, how can you call it value for money....
I mean, while computers are used in most jobs, kids don't get classes in using the latest mobile phones :eyebrows:
They learn by trial & error.
Now I never had a single computer lesson at school, yet I can happily install an operating system on a PC & get it up and running...
So why do you have to keep up with the Joneses when they are possibly going to have a fairly up to date PC at home?
Just wondering where the tax payers money is going is all, not getting at you personally Martin :)
Yes indeed, Gary. I think we forget the fairly dire driver situation when XP first came out, especially for USB devices.
I'm concerned about your lack of a W8 driver for your DAC. The Caiman just works without issue. Presumably you've tried the W7 driver?
yeah..
the installation file does not recognise Windows 8 as a "compatible operating system".
Unzipped the exe using winrar, no drivers as such to point Device manager to.
Its not the Dac Martin, that works fine.
Its the Vlink 192 that needs a driver in windows for it to work.
Its the same as all Xmos chip USB 2.0 converters, Stello U3, Hiface 2 etc.
No drivers needed for the Mac, just windows.
There just needs to be an updated driver, thats all. :)
My config is: Server usb> Vlink192 >spdif into Dac.
Gary - have you tried right-clicking the .exe installer and setting the compatibility to W7 or Vista?
Do you get any kind of discount for purchasing the new operating systems for PCs, because as far as I'm aware you need to buy one package for each PC due to licensing conditions
.
.
.
.
Just wondering where the tax payers money is going is all, not getting at you personally Martin :)
Hi Mark
All should become clear when I tell you that we have a Microsoft Volume Licence agreement. This gives us access to all versions of the server, desktop OS and applications that we pay for per seat. In other words, if I want to upgrade all our machines from W7 to W8 it doesn't cost us a penny extra. The same goes for upgrading our servers to Server 2008 R2 or even Server 2012 (haven't looked at that yet).
So it's not a matter of keeping up with the Jones's, it's more about remaining a technology leader without quite becoming bleeding edge. We do need to compete!
As for taxpayers, we're an independent school, so no taxpayer's money is involved, only the paying parents. Even state schools have overall licence agreements like ours, so taxpayers are not paying for specific software upgrades.
Gary - have you tried right-clicking the .exe installer and setting the compatibility to W7 or Vista?
Good point.
Tried that though, same result unfortunately.
Tried running it as administrator too, just the same.
Good point.
Tried that though, same result unfortunately.
Tried running it as administrator too, just the same.
Is the .exe file provided by Musical Fidelity or Microsoft?
Reid Malenfant
24-10-2012, 20:48
Hi Mark
All should become clear when I tell you that we have a Microsoft Volume Licence agreement. This gives us access to all versions of the server, desktop OS and applications that we pay for per seat. In other words, if I want to upgrade all our machines from W7 to W8 it doesn't cost us a penny extra. The same goes for upgrading our servers to Server 2008 R2 or even Server 2012 (haven't looked at that yet).
So it's not a matter of keeping up with the Jones's, it's more about remaining a technology leader without quite becoming bleeding edge. We do need to compete!
As for taxpayers, we're an independent school, so no taxpayer's money is involved, only the paying parents. Even state schools have overall licence agreements like ours, so taxpayers are not paying for specific software upgrades.
Cheers Martin, that explains things very well indeed :)
... however I'm not convinced of their products durabilit... From bitter experience I can tell you that Apples aftersales service is probably the worst I've ever encountered
I used to be an avid apple fan (in the days of Win95 and 98). But, as synsei says, ALL the Macs my wife and I used failed just after the warranty period. The cost of repairs was stupid.
Batttery for a Mac mobo - £35
Battery for a PC mobo - £1
Replacement Mac mobo - £600
Replacement PC (higher spec than the Mac) - £300
Needless to say, I bought a PC. And it lasted 3x longer than any Mac.
Of course, now I can install OS X on my PC without having to hack the installer. All I need is access to a Mac to buy and download Mountain Lion and copy it, together with a bootloader, onto a memory stick. And that's it.
I have taken a look at Win 8 videos on YouTube, and it doesn't look too bad apart from the dreadful start screen icons. I think I could live with it. So I am tempted, but I don't think Sony Vegas is certified to run on it, and that is a MAJOR spanner in the works for me.
Just realised that the W8 launch is tomorrow, so I should be able to download my upgrade sometime after that :)
The wife and kids are off to France on Sunday, so it's a week of windows tweaking and non-stop music over at my place :mex:
BTW just saw this on BBC news - the queues for the new MS Surface RT tablet are already starting to form:
http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dole-queue.jpg
Sorry, couldn't resist that one!
LOL! Microsoft fans are a little more reserved than Apple fans and don't queue for things :)
Just backing up all my stuff in preparation. The SSD should arrive today too :D
Here are a couple of ultra-nerdy photos of my home PC.
http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/pc1.jpg
Twin 22" Samsung monitors in extended desktop mode
http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/pc2.jpg
Antec P180 case with some electronic bits inside.
http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/pc3.jpg
Logitech K750 solar keyboard - magic!
Hope you like them,
Nerdy indeed. I like my 24" Samsung (1920 x 1080 res), don't have the desk space for two.
Reid Malenfant
25-10-2012, 19:43
Nerdy indeed. I like my 24" Samsung (1920 x 1080 res), don't have the desk space for two.
:lol: I had a thought today, what with all the fun & games I'm having trying to get the Oppo BDP95 to display album art..
It suddenly occured to me that this Dell XPS has a DVI output & will happily plug into the HDMI input of my 56" TV...
Who needs album art, give me Milkdrop & Winamp :rfl:
Time to find a reasonably priced 7M HDMI cable & DVI-D to HDMI converter or an all in one cable I reckon...
If anyone out there prefers foobar to Winamp, (like me ;) ), and is not already aware, there is a version of Milkdrop for foobar - see here: -
http://root.andrewasberry.com/homepage/wordpress/?p=39
Dave.
Reid Malenfant
25-10-2012, 20:08
If anyone out there prefers foobar to Winamp, (like me ;) ), and is not already aware, there is a version of Milkdrop for foobar - see here: -
http://root.andrewasberry.com/homepage/wordpress/?p=39
Dave.
One day I might get round to experimenting with a different file player Dave, nice to know & thanks for the link :)
Back to Windoze 8, who was this big brawny bald guy giving it the big hoohaa today about win 8? :lol:
E2A:- Just found an 8M DVI-D to HDMI cable, gold plated, triple screened etc.. £4.99 delivered :scratch:
:lol:
Nowt wrong wi' being nerdy... :)
http://imageshack.us/a/img341/1874/20120414152644.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/20120414152644.jpg/)
Just realised that the W8 launch is tomorrow, so I should be able to download my upgrade sometime after that :)
The wife and kids are off to France on Sunday, so it's a week of windows tweaking and non-stop music over at my place :mex:
BTW just saw this on BBC news - the queues for the new MS Surface RT tablet are already starting to form:
http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dole-queue.jpg
Sorry, couldn't resist that one!
Apple Followers...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKFEZDbJvwk :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWGsvcFpwNY&feature=related
Back to Windoze 8, who was this big brawny bald guy giving it the big hoohaa today about win 8? :lol:
That'll be Steve Ballmer, bit of a twat and has nowhere near the vision of Bill Gates. Now Steven Sinofsky, president of the Windows division, who has done most of the launches, is a very knowledgeable and interesting guy.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/windows/liveevent.aspx
Hi chaps,
Just installed W7 onto the new SSD and it seems to be pretty nippy indeed!
Now I'm looking to install an anti-virus software on it -any ideas of one that's not going to wreck the performance and give reasonable protection? Preferably free.
Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free, very good and doesn't slug performance. It's built-in to W8, renamed as Windows Defender.
Sent from my HTC using Board Express
Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free, very good and doesn't slug performance. It's built-in to W8, renamed as Windows Defender.
Sent from my HTC using Board Express
C'est fait, merci beaucoup, mon amigo :)
I use MSE on all my machines and I agree with Martin, it does exactly what it says on the tin and does it without any fuss. What's more it is pretty much bulletproof ;)
I use comodo internet security which seems to be pretty good. I can't seem to slip anything past it, try a I might.
But I'll give MSE a look. Always on the lookout for something better...
I use MSE on all my machines
Me too, been using this since it first became available and cannot see the need for anything else now.
Just downloading my copy of W8 now.
If you use the upgrade assistant, it costs £25 for a copy of W8 Pro and another £13 if you want them to send you a copy on DVD. Not bad, I reckon.
If you don't hear from me for a week, it means its all gone tits up! ;)
Cheers,
If you use the upgrade assistant, it costs £25 for a copy of W8 Pro
Do you have a link for this Martin?
Do you have a link for this Martin?
I'd like a link, too. All the emails I've received so far (from eBuyer and the like) have been much more expensive.
65% installed...
Try this link http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/buy
The installation is remarkably fast. Even more impressive is installing Office 2013 (also called Office 365 - confusing), which starts to install and then declares that you may start using it, even when it still has some 15 mins of installation to go!
I am interested in this upgrade and it seems to be available until end Jan next year so I'm going to hold off until I read some reports from users. My main interest is in how it handles FLAC files including 24/192 and possibly even higher as and if they become readily available.
65% installed...
Try this link http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/buy
Thanks Martin, was looking for that this afternoon.
Thanks + 1.
Stupid Price. But still not as cheap as Mountain Lion (which I can't legally use with a PC:eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:)
I think I'm going to put this on my Music Server first then my new desktop build, which will dual boot to Windows 7. Been doing a lot of reading about it today at work and there is a lot to like.
I will be using it with a desktop as I like to have a desktop and will install this I think http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
SdW9tSXK3fM
Just installed Win 8 on my "new" file/music server and thought that I would continue with my vaio... it has been running various Win8 builds for the last year and is currently on the Win8 RTM build.
However the "Windows 8 Upgrade Assistant" does not consider any pc running Win8 as worthy :scratch:
So had to run it on another PC (win7) ... argh I just want to pay and get the license :doh:
Stardock looks nice, Tim. However, I intend not resisting the Start screen but embracing it. I really like the active tiles and the feeling of activity and change. I think ultimately the desktop might disappear or become an option in future incarnations.
Well I've got W8 up and running on my machine and I like it a lot :)
I am however at a bit of an advantage, because with my twin screens, the start screen is on one and the desktop is on the other. It's really the best of both worlds and I'm happy.
It's much, much faster to start and stop than my W7 installation and nippier in use. Not sure how much of this is due to the clean install and SSD or the W8 OS.
Navigation is the biggest issue and its not very easy to get around at the beginning. Even when you know what to do, it doesn't really make sense at times :scratch:
So, the big question:
Would I go back to W7 now? Definitely not!
Would I put it on my headless media player? Probably not bother, unless they make a Metro Spotify app.
Big thumbs up from me :thumbsup:
I know I said that I wouldn't bother with w8 for my music player, but I ve just splashed out the £25 for a copy for it.
Will download and have a play during the week.
I guess that i'll find out if JRiver, spotify, v-link II, Remoteless helper, LogMeIn etc work with the new OS. I hope so :rolleyes:
Cheers,
I know I said that I wouldn't bother with w8 for my music player, but I ve just splashed out the £25 for a copy for it.
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on this Martin, when you have had the time to suss it out?
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on this Martin, when you have had the time to suss it out?
Cheers Tim,
It should all work, according to the Windows 8 upgrade assistant :eyebrows:
I might give it a go this evening, if I'm feeling brave.
Cheers,
Well, W8 is installed and up-and-running on my music player :)
At first, I installed it as an upgrade, keeping all my programs, files and settings.
This was not good, because it asked me to reinstall nearly all of my programs afterwards :doh:
Don't bother with this, just do a clean install.
After the clean install, I reinstalled JRiver, Spotify, Spotify remote helper, LogmeIn client etc. and all works well.
I did need to disable the live app tiles from the Start screen, as it slowed everything down too much. I also disabled the fancy display effects and animations to gain more speed. In fairness to W8, I did this on my W7 installation too.
Bear in mind that my machine is a low powered system, with no display, keyboard or mouse. Control is via the spotify and JRiver remotes and LogMeIn on my iPad.
Boot up is a bit longer than with W7 - taking around 45 seconds to boot up and auto load Spotify and JRiver.
I also checked the system latency with the DPC latency check program and I think its a bit worse than the W7 setup. Disabling the onboard wifi card made a huge difference.
Sound-wise, I think it sounds just the same as before :rolleyes:
In conculsion:
Hardly worth the hassle for a low powered headless system IMHO :(
Probably worth it for a higher powered system that is connected to the TV and with a wireless mouse/trackpad. If you want apps, then it's great, as they look good on the big screen.
Note that you need a min resolution on your TV of 1028 x 768 to run the apps :)
anyone recommend any W8 apps that are worth trying?
Cheers,
The new Skype app works well. Personally, I like the info-based apps and Wikipedia is one of the best presented. Really good looking articles, much better than reading them in a browser.
The new Skype app works well. Personally, I like the info-based apps and Wikipedia is one of the best presented. Really good looking articles, much better than reading them in a browser.
Thanks Martin,
Just downloaded Wikipedia and its lovely indeed. Just need to get used to searching from the start screen, rather than from within apps :scratch:
It's early days, but the App Store looks a bit sparse at the moment...
If you want a bit of fun, cut the rope works well with a mouse :)
All in all, I'm loving it so far.
Cheers,
Just need to get used to searching from the start screen, rather than from within apps :scratch:
You can search within Apps - the Charms are context sensitive. Just press Window-C for Charms or hover to the top-right of the screen. That Search is for Wikipedia by default, as is Settings etc. I love the way that works!
Had another try with Windows 8 after reading I could get the Vlink 192 driver to work with it.
Martin you were right, compatibility mode did the trick. :doh:
There's a bit of a learning curve, sure, but the more I use it the more I see the thinking behind it and I like what it does.
After customising the start screen to my liking I dont miss the start button at all.
My work computer is sticking with Windows 7 as - it works - but I'm not going back to W7 for my music server, Win8 is staying put.
With my Vlink 192 I can now set the driver latency setting to it's lowest without the crackling I was getting with win7.
Previously I had to put the latency setting at "safe" to listen to music.
This lower latency setting with my converter has improved the sound quality of my server - result.
This alone has makes the upgrade worth it to me.
That, along with changing my Flacs to uncompressed AIFF format has been a nice little upgrade, gotta be happy with that. :)
Using Win8 is all about keyboard shortcuts to me and I found this online:
http://www.eightforums.com/general-discussion/2355-windows-eight-keyboard-shortcuts.html#post26360
Fantastic Windows 8 User forum here:
http://www.eightforums.com/
Nice one Gary and welcome to the W8 appreciation society :)
Not missing the start menu either - it only used to get into a complete mess anyway.
Agreed about the keyboard shortcuts. once you know the main ones, it all becomes easy and (mostly) logical.
Had my first BSOD yesterday, trying to access my work files from home on Syncplicity. If you haven't seen it yet, here she is:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaupKUfVIaFzcEhTD8-_EaeDZTJrgs7aLB3nzRubZj5qTE0KNQ
Hows it working as a media centre on your TV Gary? Sadly my TV doesn't have the required resolution, as its an "HD ready" Panasonic Plasma :(
Cheers,
I learned how to scroll out on the Start Screen so that you can see all your tile groups. You can then right-click and name them. Nice.
I've moved my work laptop (lovely Lenovo Edge 11 with SSD) to W8 and it has been so successful that I am cancelling my plans to buy a W8 tablet for the moment. I've even got the O2 mobile broadband to work by using the W7 driver. It allows Mobile Broadband to be turned on/off next to the Wi-Fi control, which is neat.
P.S. well done, Gary. Glad that sticking to it worked for you.
Nice one Gary and welcome to the W8 appreciation society :)
Not missing the start menu either - it only used to get into a complete mess anyway.
Agreed about the keyboard shortcuts. once you know the main ones, it all becomes easy and (mostly) logical.
Had my first BSOD yesterday, trying to access my work files from home on Syncplicity. If you haven't seen it yet, here she is:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaupKUfVIaFzcEhTD8-_EaeDZTJrgs7aLB3nzRubZj5qTE0KNQ
Hows it working as a media centre on your TV Gary? Sadly my TV doesn't have the required resolution, as its an "HD ready" Panasonic Plasma :(
Cheers,
Its fantastic Martin, get yourself a new telly!
I still use Jriver for audio AND video in W8 so the user experience is one I'm familiar with?
The interface for video is not quite as good as XBMC, though a lot of it is needless eye candy imo.
The video quality though is in another league, which is what matters most to me.
...especially in 1080p ;)
I learned how to scroll out on the Start Screen so that you can see all your tile groups. You can then right-click and name them. Nice.
I've moved my work laptop (lovely Lenovo Edge 11 with SSD) to W8 and it has been so successful that I am cancelling my plans to buy a W8 tablet for the moment. I've even got the O2 mobile broadband to work by using the W7 driver. It allows Mobile Broadband to be turned on/off next to the Wi-Fi control, which is neat.
P.S. well done, Gary. Glad that sticking to it worked for you.
Cheers Martin, glad I did!
The boost to audio is worth it alone.
£25 to upgrade to Win8 before 31st Jan 2013 folks.
Must admit I'm tempted to give this a go at the price - the main issue though according to the upgrade assistant is that MS Office 2003 Pro isn't compatible, so I'll have to upgrade that as well if I want to stick with Microsoft Office - and Office 2010 Pro for one machine is £299...
Maybe not.
ouch...
some guys have got 2003 working though?
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/W8ITProPreRel/thread/afa2d284-90a6-47f4-bbc7-3d81b66750eb/
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread.php/148609-Office-2003-Windows-8-Pro-x64
looks like the official line is that its not compatible, yet folk report it works fine.
An alternative to MSOffice is here:
http://www.libreoffice.org/features/
messed around with various office suites and I found this to be the best of the free ones, better than OpenOffice imo.
A good way to avoid the MS Ribbon if nothing else!
Don't you get use of corporate software, Alex? You could always get Office 2010 Student version for about £85 (you have children, right). The W8 mail client is fine or you could download Windows Live Mail free, so you shouldn't need Outlook.
Must admit I'm tempted to give this a go at the price - the main issue though according to the upgrade assistant is that MS Office 2003 Pro isn't compatible, so I'll have to upgrade that as well if I want to stick with Microsoft Office - and Office 2010 Pro for one machine is £299...
Maybe not.
Hi Alex,
I've just reloaded my copy of Office 2000 Pro (Word, Excel and Powerpint) onto my W8 machine at home and all seems to be good.
I didn't install Outlook though, as I use the Windows Live Mail program instead. I thought the W8 built-in mail client was a bit limited.
EDIT office 2010 3-user from amazon for £85 here (no Outlook) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Office-Home-Student-Users/dp/B003FO8956/ref=dp_ob_title_sw
Hope this helps,
Thanks guys - yes some options there to consider, thanks.
Audioman
02-11-2012, 12:28
ouch...
An alternative to MSOffice is here:
http://www.libreoffice.org/features/
messed around with various office suites and I found this to be the best of the free ones, better than OpenOffice imo.
A good way to avoid the MS Ribbon if nothing else!
Libreoffice is in fact the continuation/successor to Openoffice resulting from the Oracle takeover of Sun Microsystems. Looks like Oracle have now halted development of Openoffice and Libreoffice has been adopted by the Linux community. I will be downloading this as it has many more features including Lotus Wordpro compatability which is important to me.
Not sure if willing to take plunge on Windows 8 yet. Seems radicaly different in ways not ideal for desktop use. Frankly introducing this into a medium to large commercial environment is going to produce many headaches. Obviously compatibility with portable devices has now become a priority for Microsoft.
Paul.
Obviously compatibility with portable devices has now become a priority for Microsoft.
Paul.
Well, my home computing habits have completely changed since I bought a tablet and smartphone
Within weeks, I had sold my laptop and the desktop PC use fell dramatically too.
Now I use the tablet for all web browsing, email, reading, portable TV, music, RSS, remote control etc. - you name it...
The desktop is now relegated to complicated stuff, like writing letters, website editing, photo editing and printing, storing photos etc.
If I'm typical of most users, then Microsoft must be worried indeed. Hence their desire to get back into where the action is.
Interesting times...
...and I love my revived lappy with W8. The touchpad behaves to all intents and purposes like a touchscreen, with all the same gestures (swipe, pinch zoom etc).
I've discovered that Internet Explorer 10 includes spell checker as standard when entering text into windows like this. Might help a few forum members I can think of :eyebrows:
...and I love my revived lappy with W8. The touchpad behaves to all intents and purposes like a touchscreen, with all the same gestures (swipe, pinch zoom etc).
Your laptop must have a multi touch touchpad then? Cool :)
Ive been thinking about a multi touch trackpad myself. Logitech are about to launch one for £70 - ouch!
See here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-T650-Wireless-Rechargeable-Touchpad/dp/B00969DLL6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351890846&sr=8-1
Apple do a similar one for £40 but its not compatible :doh:
Cheers,
Yes - I think all the current Lenovo ThinkPads have Synaptics multi-touch pads. I've been testing all the gestures and all seem to work fine, so it's as close to a touchscreen as you can get.
If you've got twin monitors, you must check out the Microsoft panoramic themes - stunning!
Download them here for free http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/themes
Here's a sample:
http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/panorama.jpg
Cheers,
I've got a dead W8 music server.
Forgot to turn off automatic updates :doh:
Windows did an auto update and so did JRiver. Now every time I log on using LogMeIn I get a BSOD. Tried reinstalling LogMeIn, JRiver and DSpotify with no change.
Refreshing windows has cured the BSOD problem, but I've lost all my settings and programs.:steam:
Just rebuilding it now :(
Grrr...
Did you not hit F8 on boot and try 'Last known good'? I've not done that with W8 but assume you can go to a previous restore point the same as W7. It might have saved you a lot of hassle.
I've got a dead W8 music server.
Forgot to turn off automatic updates :doh:
Ooops, that's essential Martin, but you should try a restore point as Martin suggested?
You should also get yourself Acronis too, I never build anything now (haven't done for over a decade actually) without creating an image of a bare install, an image of an activated install and a fully working installation image - so I have 3 image backups to go back to and any problems are rectified within a couple of minutes by laying the backup of my choice down. I only ever fully install a new O/S once.
IMO the best software you will ever buy is a good backup program like Acronis ;)
No, I didn't try a restore point - should have tried that first :doh:
Anyway, it was an interesting test of the new windows refresh function, which reinstalls W8 and retains your settings and apps. It doesn't reinstall your traditional program's, but does give you a list of the stuff that needs reinstalling afterwards.
It works well and is a good option if you don't have an image available IMHO. Definitely a good step forwards for windows.
Thanks for the Acronis tip Tim, will check it out.
P.s. still loving the w8 experience BTW.
Don't forget that W8 still has W7 Backup built-in, i.e. it will create an image backup for you without the need for additional software.
Don't forget that W8 still has W7 Backup built-in, i.e. it will create an image backup for you without the need for additional software.
I've tried that many times Martin, its failed to recognise its own backups more than once and the backups it creates are much larger than Acronis ones. It's easy to use granted, but as a complete solution Acronis True Image beats it every time in my experience. I have really tried to like it as it would save me the cost of updating Acronis, but I don't find it comes anywhere near the capabilities of Acronis, which in the circles I move in has become and industry standard product. Because of my Microsoft failures, I could never confidently recommend it.
For me a backup product has to be completely bullet proof and Microsoft's offerings over the last three operating systems has left me wanting (I test them each time) .... however, like anything with computing YMMV ;)
Sorry if this has been asked before but I've heard on another forum, from an IT professional who is also a HiRes music file afficianado, that Win8 is not as capable of handling music files as is Win7. Do any of you early uptakers have any opinions on this, both from a technical figures point of view as well as actual perceived SQ?
Dave.
Sorry if this has been asked before but I've heard on another forum, from an IT professional who is also a HiRes music file afficianado, that Win8 is not as capable of handling music files as is Win7. Do any of you early uptakers have any opinions on this, both from a technical figures point of view as well as actual perceived SQ?
Dave.
I don't have the personal experience yet Dave, but I am due to try Windows 8 very shortly when I renew the motherboard in my server. However, the only reason I am going to try it, is that I have read the exact opposite to the above - in fact all the reports from the Computer Audiophile (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum/) forum I have read concerning Windows 8 as an audio platform have been positive, hence me wanting to try it out. The above statement is the first time anyone has mentioned the contrary. In fact one member recently made the bold statement Best digital I've Heard http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/my-new-caps-v2-build%3B-best-digital-ive-heard-13548/
Do you have the source of that information as I would be interested to read it? Not wishing to doubt you, but there can be a vast difference from what you refer to as an 'IT Professional' and a 'Computer Audiophile'. I don't count myself as either, but I do have experience as both, so your post is intriguing ;)
I've tried that many times Martin, its failed to recognise its own backups more than once and the backups it creates are much larger than Acronis ones.
Fair enough, Tim. I've never had that problem and we've done bare metal server recovery more than once from Windows image backups. Acronis is certainly an industry standard so there's no harm at all in buying a copy.
Sorry if this has been asked before but I've heard on another forum, from an IT professional who is also a HiRes music file afficianado, that Win8 is not as capable of handling music files as is Win7.
I think more info is required, Dave. For instance, with what music server software? If you're just talking about playback of wav, mp3 etc. then I hear no difference. Ditto for Spotify. I would guess the comment might relate to one of the various streaming products and then it may not have been tested properly with W8.
Fair enough, Tim. I've never had that problem and we've done bare metal server recovery more than once from Windows image backups. Acronis is certainly an industry standard so there's no harm at all in buying a copy.
This has actually become a bit of a challenge to be frank Martin, as I don't understand it at all. I have tried Windows Backup so many times now, with extremely inconsistent results, I wish I could gain confidence in it as it would be a lot simpler for me, I will no doubt try it again with Win8. The last time I tried it was with a fresh bare install on a full functional hardly used drive, using all the Windows defaults. When I erased the drive and tried to restore the image it failed, both from the Windows Recovery Boot disk and when I tired it again from within Windows after doing an Acronis restore - very odd. :scratch:
One thing that causes a failure is attempting to restore to a volume smaller than the original partition size. This can happen when backing up, say, 60GB data from a 160GB partition and attempting to restore it to a 120GB SSD. It won't work despite the data being able to fit the new HD quite easily. It's become more of a problem with many users 'downsizing' to a boot SSD, leaving the big old rotating drive to perform data duties.
The new W8 'File History' feature is a continuous synchronising backup facility, writing safe copies of documents to an external USB drive. Nice, but I'm using the 'legacy' W7 image backup in tandem for belt-and-braces recovery options.
One thing that causes a failure is attempting to restore to a volume smaller than the original partition size.
That's interesting Martin, I didn't realise that, Acronis can handle anything to anything as long as it fits!
I have, now I think of it, tried to restore to different sized partitions, however that last trial I described was with a fairly unused Seagate 160GB mechanical drive, with the image going back onto the same drive it was created on. I was on a mission to get it work, only to have it let me down again - I don't think it likes me, as it knows I prefer Acronis :lol:
StanleyB
09-11-2012, 14:02
Acronis can handle anything to anything as long as it fits!
Acronis is my friend :). I even use it for automated daily back up.
I love it Stan, it really is without doubt the best computer software I have ever purchased. It frustrates the heck out of me when I fix peoples computers, tell/show them Acronis and how to safeguard themselves for the future, only to have them f*** it up again. I charge folk for fixing their mistakes now (50% of what PC World charges) and funnily enough not many ask me anymore, which is the result I wanted.
It got a bit tiresome spending all day working on computers and then fixing stuff for free in the evenings for friends :(
StanleyB
09-11-2012, 14:24
It got a bit tiresome spending all day working on computers and then fixing stuff for free in the evenings for friends :(
I have a pile of laptops in the loft that friends and family members left behind in the hope that I would fix them one day. I used to once but I already got enough on my plate with looking after the kids and wife's laptops. Most of them have two and some even have a slate. So in order to speed up any recovery I have:
1. Split the drives into OS and DOCS partitions.
2. Made a back up of everybody's laptop.
I also use a program called PCmover to back up programs. After Acronis it is the next best thing since sliced bread :eyebrows:.
Tim,
I cannot point you in the direction of any documentation that refers to Win7 being better than Win8 for the purposes of playing HiRes FLAC files direct from th PC's HDD - all I can tell you is that a very good forum friend, with the attributes I provided earlier, including degrees in Computer Science and being IT Manager of a large engineering group, when I asked whether he would be putting Win8 on his PCs said no as it was "no better and probably worse" than Win7 for that purpose because it was one of the aspects of Windows that had not been seriously considered during the change from 7 to 8. I am a complete numptie when it comes to what resides in the bowels of computer operating systems so am happy to take the word of such a person.
It may be possible to put you in touch with him for two 'equals' to discuss the subject if you wish.
Meanwhile can you point me in the direction of your CA information and I will read it and discuss it with my friend - the more opinions the better, as far as I am concerned :) .
Cheers,
Dave.
all I can tell you is that a very good forum friend, with the attributes I provided earlier, including degrees in Computer Science and being IT Manager of a large engineering group, when I asked whether he would be putting Win8 on his PCs said no as it was "no better and probably worse" than Win7 for that purpose because it was one of the aspects of Windows that had not been seriously considered during the change from 7 to 8. I am a complete numptie when it comes to what resides in the bowels of computer operating systems so am happy to take the word of such a person.
And there-in lies the problem oft found on internet forums, what we have is hearsay from a 'computer expert' who hasn't actually tried it for themselves, but is just expressing an opinion and we believe it because he's an 'expert'. I sit next to a girl who has a degree in Computer Sciences everyday at work and she is known as our 'resident half-wit' :eyebrows:
Anyway, lets wait and see what an actual test by myself reveals ;)
I have posted links in my post to the Computer Audiophile forum and also to folk who have actually tried Win8 for audio and like it. Roland have also tested it and this article suggests your friend is wrong http://www.roland.co.uk/blog/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications
Couldn't have said it better myself, Tim. "no better and probably worse" appears to be a euphemism for "he doesn't know, he hasn't tried it".
There's an awful lot of bollocks being talked about W8 already, let's keep it real here.
Hi all,
Music server is back together and running better than ever. Just need to do the image backup and we're all set. Auto update is switched off now.
Had a root around last night and I actually have licenced copies of both Acronis and Norton Ghost, but sadly neither version works with W8 :(
If I remember correctly, I never got on with the Acronis product for backups and have been using GoodSync for the last few years. It doesn't do system images though, so I'm going to try the built-in W7/8 utility and see how it goes.
I guess that I should try a restore afterwards :rolleyes: to make sure that it works?
cheers,
Well done, Martin. Once you've made an image backup with your favourite tool and tested it you should be safe. Let us know how it sounds and what music tools you are using.
Thanks Martin, will do.
Did someone on here say that they had tried the EaseUs free/paid software for image backups?
Cheers,
That's good to hear Martin. If its a dedicated server it's worthwhile (IMO) spending sometime going through and turning everything off you can, even time updates are turned off on mine. Defiantly beneficial to find an image program you are happy with, then you can disable the pagefile, system restore, hibernation and just about every other service not required to just play music. If you turn something off and it hangs, just restore your image. It is time consuming and I spent a not inconsiderable amount of time doing so myself, but once you get there it does pay dividends. But you must have a backup if you go down this route, or you could soon be pulling your hair out if you disable an essential service :eek:
Its pretty much what Fidelizer does, so if you have not tried that it might be worth giving it a go? If you are comfortable disabling non essential windows services, you don't need Fidelizer, but as a quick solution its very good, as others have attested to on AoS - Gazjam and Brian if I recall? The only annoyance with Fidelizer is you have to start it each time you reboot, but that's a small price to pay for its benefits. The flip side to that though, is that its changes are not permanent, so reboot and you are back where you were, which is great if you use your PC for other things. Its highly regarding by a lot of file based audio users.
Autoruns is a handy tool too: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902
This is useful: http://www.tim-carter.com/index.php?t=Optimize+Your+PC+For+Music+Production&Menu=1&SubMenuId=22&ItemId=9
And here is one of John's (Welder) recommendations, now updated for Win8: http://www.blackviper.com/
http://www.windowsxlive.net/fidelizer/
;)
Couldn't have said it better myself, Tim. "no better and probably worse" appears to be a euphemism for "he doesn't know, he hasn't tried it".
There's an awful lot of bollocks being talked about W8 already, let's keep it real here.
Nah then guys, let's try and keep it nice and polite here :) - no call to denigrate the opinions of another well qualified guy who is acknowledged on the forum concerned to know what he is talking about.
The link you provided is very interesting and does support your alternative opinion but even the author states that the results are of limited use and need to be confirmed by much more testing. None the less, it is encouraging to me - I have installed Win8 on one (jobbing) desktop on my network and I find the interface/opening screen a bit confusing but I'll persist to see if I can get used to it. If the good reports re audio playback continue I will take the plunge and install it on my main HTPC.
I wasn't being impolite, Dave, it's just that I dislike third party hearsay being given as fact. I'd like to think that I'm well qualified in the field, but I won't talk about it until I've tried it myself.
I wasn't being impolite, Dave, it's just that I dislike third party hearsay being given as fact. I'd like to think that I'm well qualified in the field, but I won't talk about it until I've tried it myself.
Martin, I accept unhesitatingly that you did not intend to denigrate another 'authority's' opinion but I'm afraid I read it that way - a bit like the 'my way is the only way' pontifications of an ex-forum Admin/Mod dare I say ;) .
I have 'picked up' the fact that you also know what you're talking about but so does my friend. I admit the way he said it made it sound like his unfounded opinion. His native language is not English so I do a bit of 'reading between the lines' and am happy to be guided by his advice. Similarly, if your practical (listening) results run counter to his opinion they will both be given equal weight in my mind (with perhaps a tendency to tip the balance in your favour :) ).
I am happy with the SQ I'm getting from my Win7 OS and am naturally reluctant to spend another £25 for now improvement in that SQ so I will watch this thread with great interest.
EDIT:
I have forwarded your link to my friend for his perusal and await his response with interest.
Martin, I accept unhesitatingly that you did not intend to denigrate another 'authority's' opinion but I'm afraid I read it that way
Well I didn't, Martin's response was measured and factually correct. You quoted someone who you put forward as an 'expert' in such matters, which when questioned appears to have just been giving his opinion with an absence of factual basis to support that opinion. On the face of it, that opinion goes against what has thus far been published about Windows 8 audio capabilities and actual experience of this has been presented to you, not some throw away comment along the lines of 'my mate said'. I am not in a position personally to agree or disagree, but I am interested to know what people think, if its based on fact and something they have tried. At the end of the day I will always go with what I discover personally, not what I am told or read, but many others take the written word either on a forum or a magazine as gospel.
The problem is Dave, by your own volition you admit to being "a complete numptie when it comes to what resides in the bowels of computer operating systems" but you have put forward a scenario which suggests Windows 8 is no more efficient at audio playback than Windows 7 and quite possibly worse. People can read that and get the wrong impression about Windows 8 regarding file based audio and in actuality your point is based on nothing more than a theory from a so far mythical character, who is allegedly an authority in file based audio because he's an IT Manager and has a degree in Computer Science, which to be frank cuts no ice with me whatsoever until his experience and working knowledge is validated. If he does exist I would genuinely be interested in knowing why he thinks what you have put forward, but would take such theories with a pinch of salt if its just something he believes to be true but remains untested.
I think most people reading and contributing to AoS would rather read factual accounts based on peoples personal experiences and first-hand knowledge, as opposed to hearsay ;)
Now I have two new Jimmy LaFave albums to play . . . so TTFN
Hi Tim and Martin(s),
Whoa, slow down, you're making far too big a thing about this :scratch: .
All I did was repeat the words of, irrespective of your doubts, someone I know who is very knowledgeable abour computers and audio playing on same. He has taken remote control of my PC many times and I have witnessed for myself his skills and knowledge in action. You may not welcome alternative opinions to yours being posted but that is part of forum life, so lighten up please :) .
You may well be right in your opinions, I do not know and only time and concensus of opinion will tell. I am not slagging off your opinion, I'm just sitting on the fence and trying to form an opinion based on what more knowledgeable others think or believe, so I see no need for you to denigrate other's opinions, just chillax and let a concensus form.
I have given due credit to your opinions and said that my opinion is rebalancing in your direction, what more do you want? Leave the interaction between us alone and let the thread develop on the OT rather than having a dig at other posters please :) .
Dave.
The Grand Wazoo
11-11-2012, 13:15
..............rather than having a dig at other posters please
So what was the following meant to be then Dave, other than confrontational?
....a bit like the 'my way is the only way' pontifications of an ex-forum Admin/Mod dare I say
I am now planning to use Windows 8 along with Jplay using a Item Audio T1 and latter adding AES/EBU output
You may not welcome alternative opinions to yours being posted but that is part of forum life
Dave, stop twisting words please. No-one has said that we don't welcome opinions, all we have asked (several times now) is that they are fact/experience based.
I am now planning to use Windows 8 along with Jplay using a Item Audio T1 and latter adding AES/EBU output
John, that'll be very interesting. I wonder how W8 will respond to JPlay's hibernate mode and whether it'll make as much difference as with W7. I was frankly gobsmacked at the sound quality difference of hibernate mode when you brought your lappy around.
According to Item Audio very well Having a dedicated transport they reckon even better sounds and Windows 8 is suppossed to work very well with it
Dave, stop twisting words please. No-one has said that we don't welcome opinions, all we have asked (several times now) is that they are fact/experience based.
Martin, it is/was experience based - as I said many times, he is very experienced in PC audio and PCs in general, though it does read as perhaps not yet in Win8 audio, but surely such experience entitles him to express an opinion based on what the above experience suggests to him?
Chris, fair point but in mitigation I would say my post was made in response to what I interpreted as an unnecessarily harsh response to my earlier post. I have since posted my acceptance of that is not how it was intended.
Both, can we please let it lie now? The thread is supposed to be about playing audio files using Win8, not about whether or not any second hand opinion I post is useful or welcome.
Frustratingly yours, :scratch:
Dave.
According to Item Audio very well Having a dedicated transport they reckon even better sounds and Windows 8 is suppossed to work very well with it
Just been looking at the T1 on their website John, looks good and I detect a standard configuration appearing now too. This seems pertinent;
"• Software: We believe the best and most versatile software platform for audio playback currently available is Windows 8 + JPlay + JRiver"
Source (http://www.itemaudio.com/index.php/digital-audio-sources/audiocomputers/linux-player/t1-computer-transport.html)
Have you got one yet or is it in the pipeline?
Yes and they get to try all the variations with the same gear so think Windows 8 has the potential to be a really good platform
I hope to order end of the month
StanleyB
11-11-2012, 17:29
Martin, it is/was experience based - as I said many times, he is very experienced in PC audio and PCs in general, though it does read as perhaps not yet in Win8 audio, but surely such experience entitles him to express an opinion based on what the above experience suggests to him?
I would be cautious to draw such conclusions. Experience with various Windows releases has shown time and time again that knowledge of one release can count for very little with another release. Opinions on W8 count for absolutely nothing in this case without prior dabbling with it. I for one would never accept the opinion of even Microsoft and Bill Gates themselves with regards to W8, let alone someone who has not yet tried it, or any specific functionality they comment on.
Indeed, Stan. Using W8 as heavily as I have been doing, it's clear that Microsoft have done a lot of optimising of core services. I wonder whether they actually recompiled sections of the millions of lines of code with a more up to date optimising compiler. It has that kind of whizzy feel in opening, running and switching between apps that you get when you put a much more powerful processor in place.
How this will translate into music server use is difficult to say without trying it for real, but the signs are promising. I shall be installing Logitech Media Server tonight on it, in order to get my Touch up and running again. Through the Bushmaster, of course.
Have now backed up my system image to a 1tb usb drive twice and reset twice with perfect results. Used the W8 built in program in the end.
Just need to do the same with my upgraded desktop machine and we'll be set.
The desktop machine with SSD is just soooooo responsive. It's like a new machine.
Only problem is that my wife absolutely hates W8. In her words "why on earth did they release this complete POS and more importantly, why did you install it". And I'd shown her how it works and the main keyboard shortcuts too.
Unfortunately, this could be the std response from the average windows user, I'm afraid.
Anyway, I like it, so it's staying :)
It definitely seems to be getting Marmite responses.
My partner is not so sure and her daughter absolutely loves it.
It definitely seems to be getting Marmite responses...
Probably not helped by me forgetting to install printer driver, give her access to the data HDD, no French spell-check, her contacts, favourites etc, etc. :eyebrows:. Pretty much sorted now.
My big mistake though, was to convert her POP email account to IMAP. Holy sh.t, have you ever tried to get a virgin media IMAP account to sync folders with MS Live Mail? Still not working properly :scratch:
Cheers,
brian2957
11-11-2012, 23:46
Aye should have stuck with XP :ner:
Ony kiddin :lol:
We have 2 Think pad T61's in windows 7 64 bit pro.
My wife wants an I pad next.
I still refuse to give up Win.7 it just simply works well,just like the old Think pads,why fix what isn't broken?
Some times newer is not better,I have learned from windows 2000 and Vista not to rush to the next new thing.
My big mistake though, was to convert her POP email account to IMAP. Holy sh.t, have you ever tried to get a virgin media IMAP account to sync folders with MS Live Mail? Still not working properly :scratch:
It's the same with my ISP. IMAP e-mail is so much better, though, and I need folder support without having to keep my e-mail locally. In fact, I need all my devices to see all of my e-mail wherever I am, so POP3 would be useless.
I'm thinking of moving my personal e-mail to Microsoft Outlook.com which looks very good.
My wife wants an I pad next.
Get her to try a Microsoft Surface before deciding. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but they are very nice.
Martinh: Disable the Metro interface and see if your wife likes W8 better...
Martinh: Disable the Metro interface and see if your wife likes W8 better...
I've now sorted out her email and enrolled her on a course of electro shock treatment to reset her brain. After that, I'll show her how it works.:donk:
Simples...
My £0.02 worth based on fact not opinion. :)
Latency is reduced with W8.
My Vlink 192 needs a driver to function, which has latency settings you can change.
Lower is better obviously.
With Windows 7 I couldn't get near "Minimum Latency" without 'orrible crackling and breakup.
With W8 I can, with good improvements in Vlink 192/Jriver due to lowest possible latency.
In my system it was like a system upgrade.
This alone is the reason I'm sticking with Win8.
(Plus I like it!) :ner:
That's great news, Gary. I still haven't got LMS for the Touch running on W8 yet, that's a job for tonight.
Some of you Win8 fans might find this useful: -
Link removed
Note to the two Martins: -
that statement is based on my opinion and is not rock solid concrete fact but hopefully you will not take too great an exception to it? ;) :lol:
Cheers,
Dave.
Some of you Win8 fans might find this useful: -
Already here Dave in post #157 ;)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=376763&postcount=157
If you think of the start screen as a full page start menu, you'll be ok getting to grips with w8. The windows key is great for toggling between start screen and desktop. Learn a few of the keyboard shortcuts and you're good to go :)
Even my wife has got the hang of it and stopped complaining! :mental:
Just loaded it on the spare laptop
Menu a bit different just cannot figure where the off key is lol
Sounds good in Jplay so far and had no issues with losing files
just cannot figure where the off key is lol
Hover to top-right, or use Window-C to show the charms. Click on Settings and you will see the Power icon.
Menu a bit different just cannot figure where the off key is lol
:lol: that caught me out too John the first time I used it, I was scratching my head for awhile, before getting cross!
Cheers Martin I been researching on the net
Not sure but think I perfer the sound in Windows 8 early yet, but acoustic detail seems fuller
From two mods now, aimed at Dave K:
Last edited by Tim; Today at 20:36. Reason: No links to d/l site please...
Dave, on AoS, we do not permit links to illegal download sites, as it could get us into a lot of trouble. I would've thought that you'd have had the common sense to realise that, or at least checked with a member of the management team first, whether what you were doing was allowed.
However, the offending link has been removed twice now for good reasons by both Tim and Snapper, and you've chosen to reinstate it. I'll make it simple for you: do that again and you'll be banned. The link STAYS GONE. I hope that I've made myself clear.
Marco.
Just loaded it on the spare laptop
Menu a bit different just cannot figure where the off key is lol
Sounds good in Jplay so far and had no issues with losing files
Hi John, hope you are well.
I'm using the power button on my PC to start and stop mine. Had to disable the lock screen first though. No need to find the software off button that way :)
Listening to it now - sounds great.
Cheers,
From two mods now, aimed at Dave K:
Dave, on AoS, we do not permit links, on the signatures of our members, to illegal download sites, as it could get us into a lot of trouble. I would've thought that you'd have had the common sense to realise that, or at least checked with a member of the management team first, whether what you were doing was allowed.
However, the offending link has been removed twice now for good reasons by both Tim and Snapper, and you've chosen to reinstate it. I'll make it simple for you: do that again and you'll be banned. The link STAYS GONE. I hope that I've made myself clear.
Marco.
Nah then Marco, ease up a bit on an old numptie and, more importantly, get your facts right. I have only reinstated the link once - if it was reinstated twice the second time was not by me, honest :) . I reinstated it because I thought it had somehow got lost in the ether - if someone had PM'd me and explained what had been done I would not have reinstated it at all.
Nextly, I did not realise it was a pirate site - I passed it on in all innocence as it was passed to me by a friend on another forum and I did not study it in any great detail before passing it on.
Having said all that, I apologise and plead guilty as charged, (but insane :lol: ) and will try hard in the future to avoid doing anything similar in future.
Yours compliantly,
Dave.
Most of it pretty intuitive but like everything it has it odd little quirks
I am well I hope you are well too Martin
Nah then Marco, ease up a bit on an old numptie and, more importantly, get your facts right. I have only reinstated the link once - if it was reinstated twice the second time was not by me, honest :) . I reinstated it because I thought it had somehow got lost in the ether - if someone had PM'd me and explained what had been done I would not have reinstated it at all.
Nextly, I did not realise it was a pirate site - I passed it on in all innocence as it was passed to me by a friend on another forum and I did not study it in any great detail before passing it on.
Having said all that, I apologise and plead guilty as charged, (but insane :lol: ) and will try hard in the future to avoid doing anything similar in future.
Yours compliantly,
Dave.
No worries. Please be very careful in future which links you attach to your signature - and while I'm at it, that applies to everyone!
Marco.
Hover to top-right, or use Window-C to show the charms. Click on Settings and you will see the Power icon.
ALT+F4 still Works; use it to close programs and Metro apps or when you are in the desktop it will offer to close/reboot/...
Or press the physical start button on your PC, laptop, tablet. Per default it puts your device to sleep. If you want hibernation or for it to shutdown you have to and change the behaviour for the On/Off button; Power settings dialog in the left side.
If you need access to Control Panel, Power settings or other settings either:
- Windows Key + X
- move mouse to lower left corner and right click
- stuck on a tablet; open charms menu, settings, control panel
And Window-R lets you run any program.
Correct but I normally just use the Windows key and start typing the program; just like in Windows 7, Vista, ....
Yes indeed, but someone was saying the other day that they can't run a program from the desktop without going through the Start screen. With Window-R, they can.
True; and less visual noice doing it that way.
In the beginning it was a Little distracting that my Whole left screen would flash briefly when I started something; but now I am used to it.
I am still trying to get used to having the taskbar on both my screens. Once in a while I catch myself moving the mouse cursor to my main (left) screen instead of just moving down to the local taskbar on my center screen.
Hi chaps,
Got an issue that's driving me mad with my W8 music player.
Since I'm using the machine without display, mouse or keyboard, I have to use the power button to switch the machine on and off.
Shouldn't be a problem, as I've set the power button to turn off the machine in the settings.
The problem is that windows automatically locks after some time (even when playing music) and when locked, cannot be shut down from the power button.
Am I doing something wrong?
Heeeeelp!
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