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When you say 'lock' do you mean that wallpaper lock screen that appears after a certain time? That can be turned off, as I did it when I tested 8, but I cannot remember how I did it now. Its in the settings somewhere - Martin should know if you don't find it.
Further to that Martin, I find it very useful being able to remote in to administer mine, I didn't like Windows Remote Desktop but Radmin is fantastic. You can try it out free on a trial.
Day to day if I need to, I use TeamViewer from the tablet, but its handy to be able to use a keyboard, mouse and 24" screen remotely from my main desktop PC for any admin tasks.
http://www.radmin.com/products/radmin/
When you say 'lock' do you mean that wallpaper lock screen that appears after a certain time? That can be turned off, as I did it when I tested 8, but I cannot remember how I did it now. Its in the settings somewhere - Martin should know if you don't find it.
Cheers Tim,
It's really confusing to me (not difficult) but there's the lock screen, which is the one you are talking about, I think. I have disabled this.
That doesn't stop it from auto locking though. I have also set the password to blank, which means that it boots straight to the start screen.
Ideally, I just want it to work as a PC with no password, lock screen, auto locking, just really simple. Can this be done, I wonder?
BTW, I'm using LogMeIn as a remote admin from my tablet and because of the above problem, I usually need to use this to shut down the machine manually.
Cheers,
I recommend you try Radmin Martin, trying to do it all from a tablet IMO is a pain and too time consuming, I think it helps a lot. But it may not be your thing YMMV as they say ;)
We use Windows Remote Desktop throughout the organisation. Works exactly as it says, and contains more security encryption than you could possibly imagine. I don't use third party tools when the built-in ones work fine ;)
EDIT: I don't configure machines for no lock screen, but though configuring the Power switch in Control Panel | Power Settings overrides all? Surprised it doesn't work.
We use Windows Remote Desktop throughout the organisation. Works exactly as it says, and contains more security encryption than you could possibly imagine. I don't use third party tools when the built-in ones work fine ;).
This is an odd one Martin as I would have preferred to have used Remote Desktop rather than buy a third party application for £35.00.
But this is why . . . I often sit at my desktop PC working and like to control the server from there, not just for admin purposes but for playing and selecting music too. When I use Windows Remote Desktop the SQ suffers, but when I use Radmin it doesn't, go figure that one :scratch:
EDIT: I don't configure machines for no lock screen, but though configuring the Power switch in Control Panel | Power Settings overrides all? Surprised it doesn't work.
That's what I thought too. It works like that on my desktop PC.
Just noticed that there's a windows 8 BIOS update available for my system - maybe that could be the reason.
Will check out a desktop remote admin tool, as doing it from the tablet is indeed a bit slow. Tried windows Remote Desktop and it didn't like my credentials (?) maybe something to do with having no password protection?
Still, the important bits are working, so it's just a matter of ironing out the wrinkles over time :)
When I use Windows Remote Desktop the SQ suffers, but when I use Radmin it doesn't, go figure that one :scratch:
Oh, I see. Not an aspect I've ever tested!
Oh, I see.
Its an odd one Martin, makes no sense to me but it was annoying and I couldn't live it, so I coughed up 34 quid :rolleyes:
The software interation with SQ is odd isnt it? I was recently tying a Mac Mini as a source using Decibel for the streaming and Remoter for the remote desktop control. Remoter has a Virtual track pad and when the mouse was moved using it you could clearly hear mouse moved related buzzing through the 'speakers, zzzzzzid, zzzzzzid :doh: It wasn't just me another guy reported the same thing! :scratch:
One of the things I found whilst testing different hardware Neal, was the number of things that can affect SQ are significant as well as being totally random. Before building my custom server, I tried out a load of old gear including a netbook and 3 laptops. The trackpads and the trackpad drivers from one of the laptops had an audible 'noise' signature. Screens I also found could make a difference, especially when going from active to inactive and vice versa.
Selecting and matching components IME can have an impact on the quality of the end product. Software drivers can be a pain if you are trying to use your computer for general purpose duties as well as file based audio. The Windows Remote Desktop conflict is very odd though, as the software is an integral part of the operating system. It was fine under normal operating, but as soon as you 'remoted in' there was a change in the sonic characteristic.
With what I know now I would never consider a laptop as a suitable device, unless you used something like JPLAY in hibernation mode, but then you cannot interact with it until it comes out of hibernation, so its too clunky.
Linux seems a lot purer as well as being free, but I am committed to Windows for now.
John demonstrated to me just how good JPlay can sound from a laptop in hibernation mode. Clunky - yes, but most impressive.
John demonstrated to me just how good JPlay can sound from a laptop in hibernation mode. Clunky - yes, but most impressive.
Its very good isn't it Martin - I always recommend people try that before going any further. When you hear what's possible by isolating the computer as much as possible from the playback chain, a lot change their mind about file based audio. Of course not everyone takes to it as its a radical change from the whole 'sensory experience' of playing a record or a CD. But if you want something simple to supplement your established front ends, its hard not to like it. Of course if you go the whole hog and build a custom job, JPLAY then becomes superfluous IMO. But it can make a humble laptop sound like a half decent front end with no effort at all ;)
Is there a reason why you wouldn't include JPlay in a complete ITX-based solution, Tim?
Is there a reason why you wouldn't include JPlay in a complete ITX-based solution, Tim?
Yes there are reasons Martin, I'll get back to you on this as I have just made myself a bacon butty :)
Basically Martin its our old friend the law of diminishing returns.
This is something I have looked at previously and for me its not a worthwhile investment, or at least it wasn't at the time and my sound has come on since then. I did some testing and posted in a previous thread about this JPLAY - Hi-end audio player for Windows (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=243067&postcount=24)
These findings are now fairly common amongst those who have built dedicated servers. I also really like JRiver not only for its excellent sound quality, but also the user interface which gives me back a tactile element to playing music, either remotely from my desktop or via the tablet. But if I just wanted to use a general computer and play files occasionally, I would use JPLAY in hibernation mode.
As for using it in conjunction with JRiver in an ITX server, well there have been numerous claims of conflicts on the Computer Audiophile forum, especially with JRiver 18 and Windows 8. This is also a very interesting report JRiver vs. JPLAY (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/) which validates my findings. I would however like to try it for myself as I always do, but I'm not sure I can justify the cost as I doubt I would find it an improvement on what I already have, in fact I am convinced I won't.
But just in case people are thinking I don't like JPLAY, please don't get me wrong as I think its a very good product when used in conjunction with a *general purpose* computer, but if you have a custom built headless server, which has been configured solely for audio playback, then its benefits in my experience are negligible and from my tests there is no audible improvement. I would however encourage people to try things for themselves, as there are many, many variables when it comes to file based audio so YMMV.
As a side note, there are some very interesting other test scenarios linked to in the above JRiver vs. JPLAY report regarding FLAC vs. WAV which is something else I have tested and passed opinion on previously, as has Vincent Kars - I personally cannot detect an audible difference between the two.
Finally, when all is said and done I think I have reached the point when I have no need to tinker anymore, my latest build with the new Intel board promises to be very good and will suffice until it needs replacing. I'll add a Linear PSU to that and then I'm done, the final part of the 'digital' puzzle is complete so time to sit back and enjoy the music. The rest of my system is sorted too, apart from a Hi-Fi rack and speaker stands but I shall wait until I retire and move before addressing those, as its likely I'm going to go back to the Cayman Islands for a few years ;)
Great, thank you. I'm a novice in this area but may play with an ITX board and case (we build many at work for business use) as I have access to them. The Jetway ITX boards are nice as they only require a 12V DC supply so a linear PSU based on a Paul Hynes PR3 module would be an easy addition.
The Jetway boards with DC input are very good Martin and very popular amongst the community - Chris Connaker (Computer Audiophile owner) uses one for his CAPS (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/405-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-caps-v20/) audio player. What about trying what Keiths has and using Linux Voyage MPD?
It's a long term very rainy day idea. No point my going Linux when I have access to every Windows OS going - perfectly legally! Perhaps I should use Windows Server 2012 :eyebrows:
Or even - seriously - Windows Server Core (no GUI) version.
Great, thank you. I'm a novice in this area but may play with an ITX board and case (we build many at work for business use) as I have access to them. The Jetway ITX boards are nice as they only require a 12V DC supply so a linear PSU based on a Paul Hynes PR3 module would be an easy addition.
Martin, you are most welcome to try my W8 itx machine in your system if you like.
I reckon it's pretty good, especially used with the v-link II converter.
Sounds great in my modest system, but may well be outclassed in yours. Would be interesting to find out :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Martin, you are most welcome to try my W8 itx machine in your system if you like.
That sounds like a session after Christmas, Martin. Where in Hampshire are you?
In conjuction with Windows 8, I've just installed Office 2013 RTM. I love its integration with the cloud but the most impressive and immediately noticeable thing is the absolutely stupendous performance. I thought the Preview was fast, but this is incredible. Even Outlook, which can be very sluggish, opens in about 4s on my laptop. Word takes about 2s (I kid you not).
That sounds like a session after Christmas, Martin. Where in Hampshire are you?
Sounds like a plan to me - I'm in Fleet, just up the road.
Cheers,
Excellent - we'll plan a session after Chrimbo via PM :)
In my own experience I would say using Jplay there is a difference between FLAC and WAV and think this is due to how JPlay is reading the file. Using other system the same rules might not apply
Tim I would try the new version of Jplay using it in extreme mode has taken full hibernation to another level by cutting back on more functioning within the computer.
JPlay is not high on functionality but a great way of making a laptop sound like a decent transport
Martin at the time my system did not have the extreme version of JPlay so its been further improved since you heard it
I think as Tim pointed out its where you want to go with this, in my view having a dedicated transport with a decent power supply has to be the way forward but think there is a lot of variation and we are only still learning
JPLAY have V5 in beta test. It will be possible to still run it on one machine but it's about to get more complex! There will be a PC connected to your DAC pretty much running JPLAY as now but....here's the difference....a 2nd PC will run the player (JRMC, Foobar, Stealth Audio Player, JPLAYmini etc), this PC has the files on disc or NAS. The player (streamer) PC is then connected via an ethernet cable (ideally) to the DAC connected one.
The gain in SQ are to be significant if the beta testers comments are anything to go by.
Sounds really interesting Clive so you need two computers to make it work
I wondering what the logic of doing this way. I am sure must be a good reason
It will be possible to run it one one machine, I don't know what that does to SQ.
Could you explain the rationale behind the approach Clive
I don't know a lot about it but they stream over ethernet into a 200MB buffer in JPLAY. As the music player / UI sits on the other PC the load to run this is removed from the JPLAY PC. One advantage is that tracks can be stopped even in Hibernation mode, probably you have to wait until the buffer is empty on the Hibernating machine.
It's all about reducing the load on the machine connected to the DAC.
I don't know a lot about it but they stream over ethernet into a 200MB buffer in JPLAY. As the music player / UI sits on the other PC the load to run this is removed from the JPLAY PC. One advantage is that tracks can be stopped even in Hibernation mode, probably you have to wait until the buffer is empty on the Hibernating machine.
It's all about reducing the load on the machine connected to the DAC.
Wow, sounds pretty extreme to me, but I can understand the desire to isolate the functions.
For me though, I want great sound AND user friendliness from my machine.
At the moment, I have not found anything that meets my goal 100% :( probably up to 85% with W8 + JRiver + spotify.
I suppose that like anything, you're into diminishing returns once you get to a certain level.
Snuck away from work for a few hours listening to music today - lovely and quiet, no kids or other half to annoy me :eyebrows:
Loaded up Jennifer Warnes, The Well (via Spotify) on my music PC, turned up the volume and sat back.
What an incredible album! Not only is the music fantastic, but the recording quality is just breathtaking.
Definitely need to get this on CD and rip it onto my hard drive :)
Brand new win 8 laptop arrived just the other day, not had a proper play with it yet. Catching up on this thread with great interest. Any chance of a quick summary of stuff to do to get it optimised for audio straight out of the box?
j play seems a no brainer, what else should I do with settings and such?
I think if using a laptop I would use Jplay but rememner if using in Hibernation mode you not be able to use the laptop for other purposes until it comes out. If you want more usablity but not the same sound quality consider JRiver or Media Monkey
Thanks John, I've been using media monkey and foobar on all of my computers for the last year or (primarily because WMP or Itunes wont deal with FLAC which is my default format).
If there are sonic improvements to be had from using J River then for the few bucks it costs I'll try it.
Well after a few days of trying it I can safely say that the win 8 and j river combo works very well. So good in fact that I actually bought j river. On top of the great sq I particularly like how it grabbed all the cover art for my entire flac collection and in theatre mode looks fantastic on my TV. Having cleared all the included bloatware and fettled windows it is now running very fast and stable.
I heard Jplay 5 yesterday at a friends system using Windows 8 Very impressive
Well, I couldn't resist any longer, and had US$ Amazon vouchers burning a hole and doing nothing, so I've ordered a Surface RT to play with. Sort of a Xmas present to myself. I've thought through my strategy and decided that a Win8 tablet fits nicely into my work desktop, work laptop and home desktop computing fleet. I also decided that I have a powerful domain-connected laptop for work issues and so don't need or want the Intel version of the Surface. The RT will perfectly suit what I want it for and will give me better battery life, smaller and lighter profile and a 'purer' W8 experience.
Should get it in a few days' time. Will report back once I've got the wrappers off.
http://cdn2.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/tablets/Microsoft/Surface/Press/Microsoft%20Surface%20with%20Windows%208%20Pro-580-100.jpg
You are a brave man Martin ;)
I popped into PC World the other day to see what it was like, to find that they don't sell it :scratch:
Seems that you can only order them direct from Microsoft or sellers on Amazon or ebay.
What sort of shit marketing strategy is that? :doh:
Surely, if they want to sell lots of them, they need to get people to use them and compare with the others on the market?
If they rely on people buying off the back of a few magazine reviews, they will get nowhere IMHO.
Rant over - let us know what you think please Martin :)
p.s. looks very nice - I understand that the hardware side of it is very nice indeed.
Did you order it with the snazzy keyboard cover?
Nope - I can get that here. I just needed to use Amazon.com to use up my $$$s.
Should have the Surface in the morning, together with an additional 64GB microXDSC card and Touch Cover keyboard. I'll be testing it through the weekend :)
Excellent news - something for the weekend? ;)
I bet you went for a blue keyboard.
LOL - my partner is coming over this weekend, what are you implying? ;)
Actually, I ordered the tablet without keyboard but guess what arrived from the US? A tablet with the Touch Cover! Meanwhile, I had ordered one from the Microsoft Store. So do I keep the free (US) black cover and cancel my order for a UK one? I think so. Better to convert the order to an additional charger and/or the VGA adapter if I have to.
It’s a gorgeous hunk of magnesium. Somehow the 16:9 aspect ratio fits better into the hand and lap and the display is bright and sharp. The Touch Cover keyboard is surprisingly usable and the kickstand robust and excellent. Battery life seems very good so far, I’m running it down to see what normal on/off usage is like and, 24 hours in, it still shows 66% left. A proper USB port is welcome and the Wi-Fi is faultless.
But – the all-important question – what is it like to use? Getting it going is an exercise in start-up options, Windows Updates, more updates and then some more until you have none left. At that point, Office Preview edition has become full-blown Office 2013 and you’re ready to rock and roll. Log in with your Microsoft Account and then, provided you’ve been using other W8 machines, all your preferences and accounts come flowing in. It took me about two hours to get everything setup the way I like.
The thing I really like about this machine, which my Lenovo E11 running W8 hinted at, is the highly productive nature of the OS. It really does work well in a tablet format. Integration of the main apps and Office with SkyDrive is seamless, meaning that I hardly need to worry about local storage of my documents and photos. My Flickr albums are there and available, too. People from my work Exchange account, as well as Facebook and LinkedIn, all appear with their details and thumbnail photos present. Mail, both personal and work, are available and the Mail app is usable enough. I installed a few critical apps to get things going: Skype, Wikipedia, Sky News, Tom’s Hardware. Nothing else required as yet, although a proper photo editing app is going to be required at some point. Perhaps a Photoshop Elements app will be forthcoming?
Once the basic gestures have been learned, everything comes a lot easier. Who said you can’t close apps? A simple top-down swipe closes them. Switching between apps, adding another tab to Internet Explorer, accessing the charms, settings and devices, manipulating the Start Screen: honestly, they are straightforward and the Surface starts to feel natural in just a few hours. I’ve read a lot of highly strung nonsense about the W8 GUI online, and most of it is rendered a non-argument by the simple expediency of learning a few things up front.
Performance of the NVidia Tegra 3 quad-core 1.3GHz ARM processor is impressive considering its low power consumption. There are precious few delays and the GUI is its usual responsive self. Even streaming video (not an application foremost in my needs) is smooth and glitch-free. Windows 8 RT appears to fulfil the function of low power tablet OS quite nicely and I don’t miss full desktop apps in the way that many users fear. Remember: I have a full-blown W8-64 laptop for work diagnostic and server management use; this is my personal machine and it’s fine for that application. I wanted to separate the two functions and had wondered if I would get on with RT. So far, so good.
In use, the Surface seems equally good either in tablet mode on the lap or with the Touch Cover keyboard and kickstand opened. The latter is better when full-blown articles are being written. Thank goodness the keyboard includes a touchpad and cursor arrows. There are times when you are thankful for them. I always wondered at iPads and such where you are forced to use fingers for fine editing. They are not good at that and the simple inclusion of cursor keys resolves it immediately.
I’m going to make myself do everything I normally use the laptop for (such as this post) with the Surface so that I can truly evaluate it as a work tool.
Is the case really a chunk of magnesium?? IMO that's a totally unnecessary expense - what's wrong with aluminium for this application? The gain in lightness must be minimal but the extra cost must be less so.
At the risk of stating the obvious, magnesium is extremely flamable if it's heated high enough (fortunately very high :) ) and in combination with an oxygen rich atmosphere can be quite spectacular - anybody using oxygen at home for medical reasons?
OTOH I may be worrying totally unnecessarily :doh: .
Dave.
It's vapourMg, Dave. Don't worry, I had no intention of exposing it to lethal temperature naked flames - but thanks for the thought.
EDIT: it's called VaporMg as it's American, for the sake of being correct.
StanleyB
01-12-2012, 12:45
Is the case really a chunk of magnesium?? IMO that's a totally unnecessary expense - what's wrong with aluminium for this application? The gain in lightness must be minimal but the extra cost must be less so.
At the risk of stating the obvious, magnesium is extremely flamable if it's heated high enough (fortunately very high :) ) and in combination with an oxygen rich atmosphere can be quite spectacular - anybody using oxygen at home for medical reasons?
Aluminium is no less flammable. It was the main cause of the loss of lives amongst British service men during the Falklands war when those navy ships were hit by French built missiles.
Aluminium is no less flammable. It was the main cause of the loss of lives amongst British service men during the Falklands war when those navy ships were hit by French built missiles.
Stan,
You may well be right and I'm not arguing with you, but I always thought that magnesium caught fire at a lower temperature but burned much hotter than aluminium.
On the subject of the lossof life on the navy ships in the Falklands I would argue with you on one point. IMO the major cause of the loss of life was the decision (or lack of) by the officer in charge to keep the large body of troops couped up for hours in the ships instead of deploying them around the shore. No one in their right mind, IMO, would keep such a prime target grouped in as small a space as possible - against all military logic I believe. Why no one was ever court marshalled is beyond me but it was probably so as not to damage moral in the middle of such an iffy mission.
But that's another story.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
Dave.
Aluminium is no less flammable. It was the main cause of the loss of lives amongst British service men during the Falklands war when those navy ships were hit by French built missiles.
So, if you see an Exocet missile coming towards you, don't use your Surface RT as a shield. :eyebrows:
So, if you see an Exocet missile coming towards you, don't use your Surface RT as a shield. :eyebrows:
You'll be alright if you hold it at a gentle angle from the horizontal so as to deflect it :lol:
Dave.
Gawd, can we get back to Windows 8 now? Anyone else had a play with any of the new generation of W8 tablets?
Gawd, can we get back to Windows 8 now? Anyone else had a play with any of the new generation of W8 tablets?
No. Great write up though. Seems that it could be an ideal business tablet perhaps? Not sure about any advantages over a small laptop, especially as you can't run conventional desktop programs.
Wanted to try one but don't think you can try one before buying.
Not sure about any advantages over a small laptop, especially as you can't run conventional desktop programs.
It's a good point, Martin. I would say at the moment the great advantages are long battery life and superb portability. I already find myself taking it into the listening room and researching composers etc. more than I used to.
I already find myself taking it into the listening room and researching composers etc.
That's one of the things I love about my tablet, not only can I control music from the listening position, but I can research artists too and browse the artwork too. Nowt better in my book ;)
That's one of the things I love about my tablet, not only can I control music from the listening position, but I can research artists too and browse the artwork too. Nowt better in my book ;)
Yep, me too. The JRemote app grabs artist info from Last.FM automatically.
Before you know it, you'll be building yourself a W8 music player to go with it ;)
I think JRiver are working on a w8 control app.
Before you know it, you'll be building yourself a W8 music player to go with it
Nope, won't be long Martin. Need to do a total rebuild of my main PC first, just ordered a new MB, CPU and RAM today in fact, after that's built then its onto the next music server build, which will be the third.
OK W8 experts, I have my music server running JPLAY, the laptop is a little elderly so it needs all the help it can get. Which services can I stop and disable? The pic below is where I'm up to with this. Aside from JPLAY I want to be able to run a browser via wifi and use USB.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/services.jpg
Unless I have totally misunderstood what JPLAY does, shutting any of those services down won't make a difference? JPLAY loads itself into CPU cache and plays files from RAM, so your Windows services are isolated. All you will achieve is freeing up more RAM but playback will be the same.
If you want to explore services, go here http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-8-service-configurations/
I take the same view as John (Welder) recommending the shutdown of services is not something I would ever do, as each persons computer differs, so what works for me, may not work for you.
Unless I have totally misunderstood what JPLAY does, shutting any of those services down won't make a difference? JPLAY loads itself into CPU cache and plays files from RAM, so your Windows services are isolated. All you will achieve is freeing up more RAM but playback will be the same.
If you want to explore services, go here http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-8-service-configurations/
I take the same view as John (Welder) recommending the shutdown of services is not something I would ever do, as each persons computer differs, so what works for me, may not work for you.
JPLAY benefits from any load taken anyway from the CPU, particularly on older lower powered machines. Sure if you run in hibernation mode most other processes are stopped but it's not always convenient to run in hib mode.
Saving RAM is worthwhile for me as I only have 3.2GB of 4GB available due to my graphics card mapping to RAM and with the is card it's not possible stop this.
I really don't want spoolers, Windows Defender, Windows Update and all the bloatware. If the machine ever goes on the internet it will only be a few mins at a time very rarely - if at all. In my more technical days with PDP-11s and VAXes I got into the habit of clearing up processes that weren't needed. For what is not a general purpose computer I want to giver Foobar + JPLAY an easy time.
Thanks for the link!
STOP PRESS...
My Dad has bought a W8 phone...
Muppet?
Had a good play with a W8 laptop with touch screen and now EVERYTHING makes complete sense.
Without the touch screen it's just a PC with an awkward start screen setup.
With the touch screen, it really is the best of both worlds. Tablet meets laptop in almost perfect harmony.
Of the 20+ laptops in the shop, only 3 or 4 were touch screen though, which was disappointing.
Also saw a nifty Lenovo RT tablet/laptop, where the keyboard folds back completely, to make it into a large tablet. Very nice, but I'm not 100% convinced about the need for RT. it's basically an ipad-alike with MS office built in. The shop was full of very capable tablets that could do the same job for a lot less money IMHO.
I think the full W8 tablets could be the big seller for MS if they get the pricing right. Being able to do the traditional tablet stuff, plus run your desktop program's is very interesting indeed.
Need to do a total rebuild of my main PC first, just ordered a new MB, CPU and RAM today in fact
The occasional new build PC is a very satisfying activity, I find. I think my desktop PC case is now on its 7th motherboard :)
Unless I have totally misunderstood what JPLAY does, shutting any of those services down won't make a difference?
It's nothing to do with JPLAY, Tim. Any running services can execute on a schedule or another trigger event and use up CPU resources. Some, like printer spooler, will do nothing if you are not printing. Others, like Defender, will keep looking at files as they are opened to scan for malware. Some run on timers and could trigger in the middle of playback.
It's tricky, though. Disable the wrong service and you'll be booting up in safe mode trying to put it right again.
My Dad has bought a W8 phone...
Muppet?
No way. WP8 is superb. It would help if he's already using the Microsoft ecosystem or intends to, though. Start with creating a Microsoft Account (previously Windows Live account).
Had a good play with a W8 laptop with touch screen and now EVERYTHING makes complete sense.
It's good when it clicks in your brain, isn't it?
Regarding Windows 8 RT, it does make sense to me. I really thought, like most people, that the restriction on not being able to use Windows 7 programs (becaue of the ARM processor) would have me running. It's not the case, primarily because Office is built-in. All I needed over and above that was a good photo editing app and I found one called Photo Studio.
I'm using RT every day in anger (even at work for support issues) and it's cutting the computing mustard for me so far.
Had a good play with a W8 laptop with touch screen and now EVERYTHING makes complete sense.
Without the touch screen it's just a PC with an awkward start screen setup.
With the touch screen, it really is the best of both worlds. Tablet meets laptop in almost perfect harmony.
Well I've just ordered a W8 laptop with touchscreen for my son's 16th birthday next week. It is the one we played with in PC world.
Pretty good spec and build quality for the £430 price I reckon. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/378034/asus-vivobook-s200e
http://photos.pcpro.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_PC_Pro/dir_370/it_photo_185443_52.jpg
http://photos.pcpro.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_PC_Pro/dir_370/it_photo_185440_52.jpg
Will see when it arrives.
Nice one, Martin. My partner Ruth is about to buy a Lenovo G580 with W8 as she's rather impressed with my machines.
Let us know how your son finds the Asus.
Nice one, Martin. My partner Ruth is about to buy a Lenovo G580 with W8 as she's rather impressed with my machines.
So she's had a good play with your equipment then? :eyebrows:
Lenovo G580. Mmmm... looks like a nice bit of kit. Nice colours too.
However, the thing that sold me on the ASUS was the touch screen. Makes a lot of sense with W8, as you can use the screen like a tablet, if required.
I reckon that within a year, all windows laptops will have a touch screen.
Installs a breeze on my iMac running parallels if you want a clean install but the upgrade from Win XP does not work as yet so I've gone back to XP. I only run Windows in a VM occasionbally as some patient data is on CD's only readable via windows so for me its no big deal.
Steve
I reckon that within a year, all windows laptops will have a touch screen.
Yes, I do agree. She's old-school though and wants to use a mouse. It does make them cheaper if you do forego touch.
I must admit I'm a bit 'old school' too - I have no objection to a tablet or touchscreen device, in fact I love mine, but I would never wish to replace a keyboard and a mouse and will always have (if I can) a desktop machine, large screen and something I can type on that's not a screen.
You still have a mouse and keyboard. And the trackpad is multi touch too.
The touch screen is there to compliment the Metro interface part and its really good for this. Working the metro interface with a mouse isn't that good IMHO.
Tim, did you install W8 on your music player yet?
Tim, did you install W8 on your music player yet?
No, I'm crap aren't I - everytime I plan on doing it I end up listening to music instead, trouble is I still have a small pile of new discs I haven't played yet, so tend to get distracted by that. I have had all the parts for the new server since August now :o
I also now have all the parts for a new desktop machine and have yet to build that either :lol:
One of these days . . .
Tim - why not just buy a new HD to try an installation of W8 on. That way, if you're not happy with it you can just slot your original drive in and be back as you were.
By the way, I was at Microsoft today and saw the full power of Server 2012 which is incredible. No-one complained about the Modern UI on that, I can tell you. I rather fancy migrating my work Exchange 2010 (e-mail) server with its octuple CPU cores, 32GB RAM and 1.2TB of fast 15,000 rpm SAS RAID drives ;)
Tim - why not just buy a new HD to try an installation of W8 on. That way, if you're not happy with it you can just slot your original drive in and be back as you were.
I've got loads of spare drives here Martin, both mechanical and SSD, with hot swap bays in my desktop so it would be easy to do - its time I always seem to be short of :scratch: But that's what I would do anyway, and Acronis it too, so I can go back to it. I guess it might be more down to the fact that we are very busy at work right now, so messing around with O/S's isn't something that thrills me when I get home TBH, whereas listening to music does. I think having tried it already has taken some of the excitement away - I'll probably do it over Christmas as I have some spare time then.
Hi All,
Just a quick note to say that with win 8 there is a nice 3rd party utility called pokki which gives you back the traditional start menu function, you after logging in you land straight into the desktop a la win 7.
See https://www.pokki.com/ for more info.
All of.my win 8 installations have been smooth as silk, and I have got a very nice free performance boost to boot. There has clearly been a lot of optimization done and suspend/resume is now near instant. Even where I have done an in place upgrade from win 7, it was all done in 20 mins and nothing didn't work after migration, apart from Acronis, which I have found out is useless with bootcamp due to it not understanding guid partition tables or working properly with efi firmware. Hurry IP and fix it please, Acronis!.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi All,
Just a quick note to say that with win 8 there is a nice 3rd party utility called pokki which gives you back the traditional start menu function, you after logging in you land straight into the desktop a la win 7.
See https://www.pokki.com/ for more info.
I've been using w8 for a while now and really can't see the problem with the start screen. In fact, I much prefer this to the old start menu, as everything is laid out nicely. You couldn't say that about the start menu, which always got into a mess IME.
Anyone new to W8 should give the start screen a go first, as I think they will be missing something if they bypass it.
Just remember that you need to use the windows key to toggle between the start menu and desktop and you'll be ok.
Yes, I agree and far prefer to embrace the Start screen than start adding third party tools that revert it to a W7 look.
I too like the W8 start screen, I suspect many of those that desperately feel the need to disable it take time to adjust to change.
I'm lukewarm about the start screen. I have a lot of software and utilities installed and navigating to them is quicker for me from the desktop. If one is familiar with the keyboard shortcuts then it isn't too intrusive.
My other gripe is the lack of pop3 connectivity in the windows mail app, although this is probably fixable. I do understand it's design, and for many people, especially those with touch screens it works well enough.
Pokki is a nice shell, and prevents me from having to toggle between the start menu and the desktop as much as I would otherwise. I recommended it for those who would be reluctant to upgrade to Win 8 because of the user interface design, and are looking for a more windows 7-like experience. IMHO Win 8 is a very nice environment with a lot of under the hood improvements, so consider it as a way for the doubters to benefit from these without being put off.
Cheers,
Alex
My other gripe is the lack of pop3 connectivity in the windows mail app
The easiest fix for this - honestly - is to create an Outlook.com account (using your Microsoft account) and have your POP3 mail collected by it. You get the huge advantage of folders and cloud storage for it all, no storage limit, the ability to view your mail from any browser and the integration into the Mail app.
Just a reminder for those who are thinking of upgrading to W8 in the near future: the current £25 price offer for the full W8 pro expires at the end of this month (jan 2013).
After the end of the month, the price reverts to the normal level, probably £100+ :eek: (price TBA).
I've got 3 licenses and two machines already upgraded successfully :)
Cheers,
Yes done the same Martin.
Those of you teetering on the edge of whether to go for Windows 8 or not, I've written a couple of blog entries that might help your decision-making:
Windows 8: Great on Older Hardware
http://blog.cix.co.uk/mtaylor/2013/01/14/windows-8-great-on-older-hardware/
The Perils of Upgrading
http://blog.cix.co.uk/mtaylor/2012/12/31/the-perils-of-upgrading/
If you already know this stuff, excuse the interruption.
Two great blog entries there Martin, with very sound advice, especially about installation. I agree 100% about a fresh install if there's one single thing people reading this thread should take away, it's that you should always perform a fresh install of a new operating system. I go one step further by performing a secure erase of the entire drive, not really necessary but I like every single trace of the previous data erased, before laying down a new O/S. In fact I secure wipe before re-laying a backup image too, which on an SSD takes minutes :)
I still haven't switched over 100% to 8, but have it on a spare drive (I can swap drives around easily with a front mounted hot swap bay), it flies from an SSD and with a SATA III SSD its like greased weasel shit!
Thanks, Tim. What utility do you use for secure erasing?
Thanks, Tim. What utility do you use for secure erasing?
Parted Magic Martin, its an open-source bootable Linux distro primarily for partitioning, but it has a secure erase program which will reset a SSD to factory speed, by wiping all the memory cells. Great for other things too, especially recovering data from an O/S drive which won't boot, but very useful for SSD's.
http://www.corsair.com/applicationnote/secure-erase
http://partedmagic.com/doku.php#.UPqyjGeBVaQ
EDIT:
I have tested it in a forensic environment too and it does completely erase a disk, so very useful if you want to sell or dispose of a hard drive safely, or sell an old computer.
Tim or Martin
I got Windows 8 installed great with Beta version of Jplay but installed it the easy way I do have a back up disc that I bought with it. How would I go about a complete reboot is it worth it. I am just using the laptop as a dedicated audio player so keeping the laptop very basic in terms of software no antivirus etc as not being connected to the internet J jplay just jplay and music files
By the way anyone using Windows as operating system who is serious about getting the best out of computer audio should move to Windows 8
I guess the first question John is how you carried out your current upgrade. Did you create an ISO image of Windows 8 and do the installation from that?
I take it at the moment you have Windows 8 installed over the top of Windows 7. Also, if you are just using the laptop for audio duties, do you have an SSD in the laptop and where are your music files?
I don't know about John but here's what I did.
A fresh install of W7.
Uprade to W8 using the online offer.
My audio files are on the spinning C drive as this gives the best sound for Jplay v4, I don't know yet about v5 though I do have it as a beta. SSD would be cool one day.
A fresh install of W7.
Uprade to W8 using the online offer.
:scratch: why did you choose that way Clive?
Because it was a W8 upgrade needing an existing o/s to install over. There may have been a way around it, if so it was not obvious.
Makes sense then Clive - what do you think of 8 overall?
Pretty sure there's an option to do a clean install from the upgrade site.
I bought 3 licences plus a copy on DVD for an extra £12, so I can reinstall everything if needed.
Also, if you go into the W8 settings menu, you can do a reinstall ( i think they call it refresh) and there's the option to reinstall and keep your files and settings or wipe everything clean. Nice touch.
Cheers,
I did for the same reasons as Clive I had W7 installed and when went to the site for the upgrade it seemed the only way I could install at that bargain price
My music files are just stored in music files works fine with Jplay but sure I could of done it a better way
Makes sense then Clive - what do you think of 8 overall?
I like the sound vs W7. I like the big button metro menu, especially for a dedicated music machine with few apps installed. Finding my way around the system is easy enough, it's just different.
Although it's not that obvious, you can download media to create an ISO during the 'upgrade' process of purchasing the W8 upgrade. You should say 'yes' to this, download the ISO and then right-click on it and burn it to a DVD. Now you have a proper install disc and can perform a full clean installation, using the drive options to delete all existing partitions. You should also make a note of the software licence given on-screen. You now have all that you need to perform a fresh install on the machine, deleting all that was there before.
This gives you by far the cleanest and most stable installation of W8.
I installed it as Windows 7 upgrade so I presume the disc I got from Microsoft is for the Windows 7 upgrade so would not be able to do a complete re-stall without having Windows 7 on the system first?
Have no stability issues but understand not the cleanest way to do this but I did get the update to remove existing files and software when I did this
No John, as I've said the upgrade process lets you download a full ISO media. This can be used to make a fresh installation. This does no checks for pre-existing installations. I've done it so I'm quite certain.
Check this post John;
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=403526#post403526
;)
Cheers Tim
Great write up I wished I saw it before I did the install hopefully others wishing to do this will follow this advice
Ah, nice one Tim, great screen grab sequence (although I'm not sure how you captured screen grabs during an install process).
Cheers Tim
Great write up I wished I saw it before I did the install hopefully others wishing to do this will follow this advice
John, I've just been checking for you and you should be able to go back and get yourself an ISO - I'm not totally sure you can as I have never tried it myself, but look at your invoice email from Microsoft;
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/order_zps0d16c637.png
There is an option at the top of the email to download it again (as above), logically it should be the same or a similar process, so this time you could save your download as an ISO John?
Get yourself a small SSD and put a fresh install on that in your laptop ;)
Ah, nice one Tim, great screen grab sequence (although I'm not sure how you captured screen grabs during an install process).
That's not actually the install Martin, just the download of the ISO. I downloaded a second copy last night and captured the process to try and help out those a little unsure.
I use FastStone Capture which is a great little tool, been using it since 2006 and love it as an all round capture program - its grown into quite powerful software and now does audio and video too.
The FastStone suite of tools has been a favourite of mine for sometime, their image resizer program is also very good and its freeware.
http://www.faststone.org/index.htm
Great stuff. I subsequently realised that you could capture the install process screens by using a virtual machine, too. Alt-PrtScn and Photoshop does me for captures, I use it a lot in Powerpoint training slides.
I am not taking the leap to Windows 8.
They are forcing this whole cloud computing crap down our collective throats,it's about money and control. By not buying into Win 8 it will send a message spelled out in millions of lost revenue,they can't afford another vista for long ,can they?
With Apple stomping and kicking there Teddy Bear.
I got a new Lenovo desk top today with Windows 8 and a nice 23 inch flatscreen. The video cameras for the store and the computer both share the monitor.
So I just 8 my words figuratively speaking.
And so far it seems like a good operating system.
It was not easy to fit to the screen though,I had to manually size things.
A SkyDrive account is free and integrates superbly into Windows 8 and Office 2013, Jeff. You'd be mad not to try it despite your distrust of cloud computing!
Thanks Martin,
I may just try it.
It looks easy to install.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/skydrive/download
Windows 8 comes with a SkyDrive app, which you can use immediately. You can also download the desktop app which you have linked to, to give the best of both sides of Windows 8.
Well I'm not surprised at this at all - I have no problem with 8 as an O/S as its fast and lean and an improvement over 7 in performance terms, but they really should have released two versions IMO. Look's like the Start button could be coming back :rolleyes:
I don't think Steve Balmer should lose his job, that's nuts and to be fair he said a long time before 8 was released it was the riskiest move Microsoft had ever made.
They also suggested it would give users the option of booting their PCs directly into Windows 8's desktop mode rather than having to visit the tile-based Start menu screen first.
On Tuesday the Financial Times ran a front-page story suggesting that a U-turn over key elements of Windows 8 would mark "one of the most prominent admissions of failure for a new mass-market consumer product since Coca-Cola's New Coke fiasco nearly 30 years ago".
Windows 8 update public preview to be released in June (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22446754)
I do hope they don't tamper with the UI, it's fine as it is and highly productive.
I can't understand this nonsensical call for the return of the Start button. It's called the Start Menu and what exactly is wrong with the Win key on the keyboard?
Drives me to distraction, these naysayers who won't put any effort into learning something new!
As much as I agree with you Martin, getting folk who after nearly 2 decades of using a home computer, who still cannot perform simple maintenance on them, or do much more than use 5% of the O/S or applications, Windows 8 IMO was always going to be a hard sell for the average user. People are lazy and cannot be arsed to find out how stuff works . . . drives me nuts too.
As for getting people to use short-cuts well that's another tall one and I reckon if you asked the greater majority of PC users what the Windows key did, the answer you would get would be "What's the Windows key?"
It is a shame, but entirely predictable.
I'm well used to the 'learning cliff' and enjoy giving little hints and tips to staff to make their productivity better.
Was just venting, nice to let off steam about it sometimes!
Spectral Morn
08-05-2013, 20:18
I must say the way Windows 8 looks and runs puts me off adopting it so the move that is being suggested might make me look at Windows 8.
Regards Neil
It would have been commercial suicide for MS not to address the concerns of its customers so I welcome the news that they are giving Win8, their most unpopular OS to date (and thats official) a makeover. I'll be sticking to Win7 however as it just works, and goes on working. Win7 is kinda like Microsoft's classic album... :lol:
I must say the way Windows 8 looks and runs puts me off adopting it so the move that is being suggested might make me look at Windows 8.
Neil's response is I think very representative of what many home users feel. No doubt MS is under pressure from manufacturers too, as they just need sales. A lot of business users won't be interested in 8 as an upgrade to 7 and as we know millions are still on XP and next April probably intend on moving to 7 - this may persuade them to go to 8? Hell, most home users have only just got 7 after a decade of using XP, so 8 was just too soon and too different for them - but as we know it really isn't and you can go to the desktop easily if you want to, but you still cannot get people to try it. As we have seen in this thread, people who have never even tried it spout all sorts of crap about it too, "Well I heard" or "I read on tinternet" . . . . blah blah. I know MS were trying to do something new and innovative to pinch Apple sales, but they missed that boat years ago.
Lets face it, all they have to do IMO is put the start button back, make it a first boot user option to choose the Desktop or Metro UI and add a Control Panel feature to change between the two at boot and Bob's your uncle, the masses will be fooled and go out and buy 8 - it's laughable really, but that's what people are like it seems :rolleyes:
Anyway, might sound like a rant, so I'll stop now :lol:
Yes, it really is perception and the key damage was done early on by magazine and webzine reviewers who didn't like it because it was different. I have come to realise that journalists simply do not use hardware and software in any way like real workers and their findings are not representative. Anyway, the damage was done and 90%+ of internet users repeated the nonsense without ever trying it.
I've seen how users respond to W8 on my Surface tablet when I give it to them to play, saying virtually nothing about it to taint their experience. They respond immediately to the UI and go on to have some fun once I teach them about 5 essential gestures. I have also seen Ruth and my son both buy Asus touch laptops with W8 and love using them.
Perception, as I say. W7 is very good, but W8 would have done much better if W7 had never existed.
Yes, it really is perception and the key damage was done early on by magazine and webzine reviewers who didn't like it because it was different. I have come to realise that journalists simply do not use hardware and software in any way like real workers and their findings are not representative. Anyway, the damage was done and 90%+ of internet users repeated the nonsense without ever trying it.
I've seen how users respond to W8 on my Surface tablet when I give it to them to play, saying virtually nothing about it to taint their experience. They respond immediately to the UI and go on to have some fun once I teach them about 5 essential gestures. I have also seen Ruth and my son both buy Asus touch laptops with W8 and love using them.
Perception, as I say. W7 is very good, but W8 would have done much better if W7 had never existed.
Thus confirming that Win8 was that awkward second album... :lol:
walpurgis
09-05-2013, 19:43
I see the current issue of 'ComputerActive' says new computer sales have slumped radically since the introduction of 8!
I see the current issue of 'ComputerActive' says new computer sales have slumped radically since the introduction of 8!
Three members of my family and extended family have been put off buying new laptops because they could not get to grips with Win8. All three have since bought refurbished modern machines from ebay retailers with Win7 installed and now they are happy. Now, one can chunter on all day about lazy people who can't be bothered learning a new OS but eventually you are going to run out of time and customers while you prevaricate. On the plus side you will have a nice pile of shiny new laptops that nobody wants... :eyebrows:
I see the current issue of 'ComputerActive' says new computer sales have slumped radically since the introduction of 8!
Conflation. The PC/laptop market was already in decline. W8 didn't cause it.
I have 2 W8 laptops, I don't understand the problem except that people have no staying power. Understanding W8 is trivial vs say getting used to an Android tablet. Frankly pathetic.
For a bit of a laugh, see this Japanese ad for Windows 8. You don't need to understand Japanese, just watch...
leaPZezW5u0
For a bit of a laugh, see this Japanese ad for Windows 8. You don't need to understand Japanese, just watch...
:rfl:
The PC/laptop market was already in decline. W8 didn't cause it.
Absolutely Martin, as those with a modicum of knowledge will know its due to the Tablet market not Windows 8 :rolleyes:
Good video too :lol:
Absolutely Martin, as those with a modicum of knowledge will know its due to the Tablet market not Windows 8 :rolleyes:
Good video too :lol:
And of course the tablet market is why W8 was created the way it is.
I hope they had something for that poor girl's headache.
I hope they had something for that poor girl's headache.
Way too funny, I love other countries adverts, ours are so sterile in comparison, I mean we couldn't show that here could we - someone might try it and hurt themselves :rolleyes:
Here's another one...
eMc79sLOIXQ
I recently purchased a new Desktop PC with W8 (somewhat reluctantly) and despite my reservations I have had very few problems so far.
I find the Metro interface to be a bit of a wankey gimick, but then again I don't think that part of the O\S is aimed at the Desktop PC user and so I have basicly ignored it and configured the desktop environment to my taste. There are a few minor things I'd still change but otherwise I can't find too much difference from W7.
I think whether you view W8 as progress will depend greatly on the type of hardware you use, but so far I have just found it a side step with some small annoyances thrown in for good measure, though it's still early days :lol:
I think whether you view W8 as progress will depend greatly on the type of hardware you use
It does help greatly if you adhere to a single eco-system. My advice these days is - if you're an Apple user, stick with Apple products (although you'll need MS Office if you work with business documents), and the same with Android (using Google Docs).
I use four Windows 8 machines - two desktops, a laptop and a tablet (Surface RT). I also have a Windows Phone 8. When integrated with the Microsoft Account so that all settings, People, Calendar, apps etc. percolate around the devices, and further integrated with SkyDrive for common central storage, it all makes glorious sense and is a highly productive environment for me no matter where I am.
Gmanuk101
10-05-2013, 14:13
It does help greatly if you adhere to a single eco-system. My advice these days is - if you're an Apple user, stick with Apple products (although you'll need MS Office if you work with business documents), and the same with Android (using Google Docs).
I use four Windows 8 machines - two desktops, a laptop and a tablet (Surface RT). I also have a Windows Phone 8. When integrated with the Microsoft Account so that all settings, People, Calendar, apps etc. percolate around the devices, and further integrated with SkyDrive for common central storage, it all makes glorious sense and is a highly productive environment for me no matter where I am.
at last someone on this thread with a bit of sense rather than bashing whatever software company,, yawn yawn yawn. They released it to make money, simple, they are a company, companies cant run effectively without making a profit.
I've worked with (professionally), with Unix, linux and many flavours of the MSoft OS systems.
To me Windows or indeed Microsoft dragged computing from beardy blokes with punch cards into a graphical drag and drop wonderland.. yes they fail and when they do fail big...
if you dont' like the OS, feel free to change it is my opinion, get a book from Waterstones on it and have a good poke about.
It is a totally different feel to the standard desktop models we have, however if you don't wanna move with the times, then keep schtum..lol
realysm42
10-05-2013, 16:42
I'm pondering an upgrade when I get my new media pc built (excited about that!).
Dudes, does it sounds better than 7? If it doesn't I'm not interested...
Those who have compared say that W8 sounds better. On a technical level, it is much more efficient and faster which suggests that audio processing will be less prone to lag. I find W8 great for streaming to my Logitech Touch so no complaints here.
realysm42
10-05-2013, 16:53
Cheers Martin.
Dudes, does it sounds better than 7? If it doesn't I'm not interested...
I have recently installed it on my media server, its certainly a superior operating system for my server, which runs from an mSATA SSD (SSD's like 8) - a lot of folks on Computeraudiophile.com claim it sounds better, Chris Connaker (site owner) from memory claims not to notice a difference to 7 and on this point I agree with him - on my custom server it sounds the same to my ears. However, we are talking about tweaked operating systems, not bare installs, so everything is disabled that is not needed. But if you don't intend doing a lot to the O/S then it would be logical to conclude that 8 'should' sound better, as it is a leaner, more efficient O/S with lower latency than 7. But tweak them both and to me they sound the same - YMMV and there's only one real way to tell if there is a difference, as media players/systems will differ?
If I were building a new server then its a no brainer, I would be putting 8 on it for sure, together with JRiver MC18. Both are new software editions and for longevity and less future tweaking/faffing about, it always makes sense to put the latest software on a new build ;)
Using Jplay on a 1pc set up I compared W7 to W8 with a friend after that demo my friend got W8
realysm42
21-05-2013, 10:55
I'm in club w8 now; made a few tweaks to make it behave like 7.
I booth the CD as its £20 cheaper than doing it via the os?! Plus you get a proper OEM w8 DVD.
Can a home provide a link to the list of services to turn off please?
Here's something I discovered by accident over the weekend I wasn't aware of - how easy it is to dual boot a machine with Windows 8 installed. Whilst testing stuff on my desktop machine I left and old SSD docked when I booted it and got the below screen . . . simples. Something you have been able to do on an Apple machine for sometime I understand, so its about time that Microsoft made dual booting extremely easy :)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/01cover_zpsae8acd60.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/01cover_zpsae8acd60.jpg.html)
I can swap drives in and out of my tower PC easily as I have a hot swap bay at the front, great for testing, which is what I used to do. Now I don't need to take anything out, I just select the drive/operating system at boot.
Porn Old stuff on Win7 and proper stuff on Win8 :lol:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/03cover_zpsfbe55359.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/03cover_zpsfbe55359.jpg.html)
LOL! At work I have a virtual machine with XP and another with W7 when I want to test legacy compatibility. For all other purposes, W8 and Office 2013 on my main machine (with one of them there Samsung SSDs you have in yours, Tim) smoke the others dead for getting things done. I'm also favouring my W8 RT tablet over my W8 laptop for remote network administration while I'm roaming around work, supporting staff.
Those SATA III Samsung's certainly do fly like greased weasel shite with Win8. I still haven't switched over totally on my tower machine, but its about 60-40 now and I will pull the plug on 7 very soon (apart from testing), but like you I have XP on a VM as well.
My music server is Win8
Those SATA III Samsung's certainly do fly like greased weasel shite with Win8
They certainly do, and even the cheapo Sandisk SSD I use at home goes like a rocket with W8 and a hex-core AMD kicking it up the arse.
Well, I predicted long ago that all MS would need to do to get people on board with W8, was give them a Start button and now it seems the power of the public has forced a U-Turn, as they are bringing it back with the next update, dubbed Windows 8.1
Personally I think its a good move as I have had many frustrated people calling me, asking how the heck do we turn off our new computers! Does nobody use Google? Anyway, its coming back and I think now people will accept it and buy it and when they do, they will realise what a fast and well sorted O/S it is ;)
Microsoft U-turn sees Start button back on Windows 8 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22714048)
I think they have missed a trick though, by not giving it full functionality, but we shall see what the update brings as its only just been announced.
It's an absolute joke and Microsoft must be giggling - it all stems from people's inability to take steps to learn the new OS. Switch it off? What, are they completely incapable of learning how to get Charms | Settings to display (Win-C or hover top-right), even from the desktop? I despair!
All the new Start button will do is... show them the Start screen. Exactly the same as the Window key on the keyboard has always done!!
Audioman
30-05-2013, 14:17
It's an absolute joke and Microsoft must be giggling - it all stems from people's inability to take steps to learn the new OS. Switch it off? What, are they completely incapable of learning how to get Charms | Settings to display (Win-C or hover top-right), even from the desktop? I despair!
All the new Start button will do is... show them the Start screen. Exactly the same as the Window key on the keyboard has always done!!
I see there are some tossers who insist on sticking with XP because everything from Vista onwards is 'rubbish'. Could never understand the brickbats for Vista when it came out centred on 'user account control' - hardly more than a minor irritation. Also do companies these days bother to do staff training when new OS is introduced?
It's an absolute joke
I know it is Martin, but that's what people are like . . . here's a funny one for you. The lady who answers the phone and sits near me in our office, recently asked for advice on buying a new laptop for her husband. She bought a shiny new Lenovo and we were talking about W8 the other day. Her husband spent an afternoon trying to turn it off - I'm not joking, she said the entire afternoon! He eventually gave up and walked all the way to PC World to ask how to do it! WTF. He's an intelligent guy too and the whole story baffled me.
Like it or not that's what MS are dealing with and I often forget how little people know when it comes to computers and its the reason for Apples success. They are shiny and nice to look at, they work and they are so simple to use. Despite being in most peoples home for over a decade now, very few people actually know how to do much more than surf the net, play music, send an email or write a document. I don't understand that personally, as I like to know how stuff works and every question you ever need to ask has an answer via Google - very odd :scratch:
What does the Windows key do again Martin? :lol:
You can attend my 5-day course if you like :rfl:
Also do companies these days bother to do staff training when new OS is introduced?
I do a 1-hour refresher course with major revisions of OS and Office. Attendance is not great and then the questions start once we roll it out. I tell them they should have attended when they had the chance to, but there's always some excuse.
Next time, with the boss's sanction, I'm making it mandatory!
I know it is Martin, but that's what people are like . . . here's a funny one for you. The lady who answers the phone and sits near me in our office, recently asked for advice on buying a new laptop for her husband. She bought a shiny new Lenovo and we were talking about W8 the other day. Her husband spent an afternoon trying to turn it off - I'm not joking, she said the entire afternoon! He eventually gave up and walked all the way to PC World to ask how to do it! WTF. He's an intelligent guy too and the whole story baffled me.
He's also unable to use google too it seems.....
Google is your friend Also youtube great for this too
He's also unable to use google too it seems.....
I was quite frankly rendered speechless when she told me he walked all the way back to PC World to get an answer. I have no idea if its true or not, but she also said PC World offered a W8 familiarisation course for around £50.00. They were also upset that PC World didn't tell them how to use the new operating system - what is the matter with people?
I know Martin and I disagree slightly over W8, I do like it from a personal viewpoint, but I think MS made some fundamental errors in judging what their user-base could handle. I have to interact with a large number of people in relation to computer use and they are all ages and genders. They are all supposedly intelligent people who use computers on a daily basis, but their knowledge levels are appallingly bad - and their inability to understand what is in front of them is also puzzling. I think its based on fear and also because they never do what they are told in relation to backups and are so scared of cocking something up, they don't try stuff out. I got an email this very day from my best friends wife, who asked if I could look at a hard drive when they come over to the UK next month, as its broken and she has lots of precious information on there - just use the backup I thought, but I already know the answer to that one :rolleyes:
MS should have done 2 things, either release 2 candidates - the Metro touch screen interface and a desktop version, or in a single candidate, reversed the GUI presenting the Desktop over Metro and include a Start button. It was a brave move and I understand why they did it, but it was a step too far for the majority. And lets face it, millions of people have not even taken the step of moving away from XP yet - what's that all about :scratch:
Yes, it does seem as though W8 was a step too far for many. I'm already preparing to roll it out on new student machines over the summer (and they will just take to it quite naturally), but I won't do it for teacher machines until at least a year later. I will be rolling out tablets to senior management, which will be interesting...
As for users, what is it with them never trying anything out to learn what happens, but at the same time glibly clicking on informative and warning pop-ups? I watch them do it and then ask them what it said? They don't know, they didn't read it. So how did they decide it was ok to click? Blank look.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
I think most people do not like change and rather the comfort of what they know
what is it with them never trying anything out to learn what happens, but at the same time glibly clicking on informative and warning pop-ups?
Oh yeah, that one too - I gave up trying to understand the thought processes of the average PC user sometime ago, when I stopped repairing them in my spare time . . . it used to make my head hurt fixing some of the cock ups.
Just as a matter of interest, as I know we have some W8 users here and this seems to be a common complaint - does anyone find the Shutdown annoying and do you realise there are numerous ways to do it? I have a method I have been using since the days of XP by creating shortcuts. These can be pinned to the taskbar in W8, so shutting down or restarting is just one click away.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/02_zps90590f7f.png (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/02_zps90590f7f.png.html)
Shutdown & Restart icons on the taskbar.
Just right click the desktop and create a new Shortcut. A box appears asking for the command (which are below), copy that in the field and click next. Name it in the next field and you are done. Change the icon by right clicking the shortcut > Properties > Change Icon and then select an appropriate icon. To pin them to the taskbar, just right click and select the command.
Simples :)
Shut down: shutdown.exe /s /t 00
Restart: shutdown.exe /r /t 00
Hibernate: rundll32.exe powrProf.dll,SetSuspendState
Sleep: rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,SetSuspendState 0,1,0
Log off: shutdown.exe /l
Lock: rundll32.exe user32.dll,LockWorkStation
Switch user: tsdiscon.exe
Or use Ctrl > Alt > Del
or Alt F4 (from the desktop)
or that thing that I'm not sure what its for, the Windows Key. ;)
There are other methods too, just use Google.
I assign the on-off button to = shutdown.
I assign the on-off button to = shutdown.
Yes another good one, I use that for my music server as its headless.
Win-C, Settings, Power, Shutdown.
I just got used to going to settings and then shutting down
When you are the #1 desktop OS provider and you have set the look and feel for your OS over many years and generations of OS you should evolve not try to revolutionise the interface. IMHO MS are spectacularly bad at this, even with the MS office package that changed the whole look n feel and yet it ran on XP so had a mismatch of new menu and old menu styles. It's shocking to forse your customer base to re learn nearly every aspect of the interface.
With regard to W8 can't you just use the on/off button? Don't know of many if any laptops or PC that don't use ACPI shutdown these days.
Glad I use a Mac these days and only have to use Windows occasionally.
Windows XP loses support this year and is four revisions of OS old. Why on earth should Microsoft care about how Office 2013 behaves on XP?
I see Microsoft as brave trailblazers in regards to W8; yes, there are complaints as there always are about the UI changes, but underneath it's still remarkably close to W7. They could have made it completely different and perhaps there would have been fewer complaints?
Apple have a fractured strategy, too. When will they introduce touch to OSX? With the great majority of laptops on sale moving towards touch, a MacBook is going to look expensive and outdated very soon.
StanleyB
31-05-2013, 08:00
What does Office 2013 bring to the table that Office 2003 or Office 2007 didn't? As far as the average user goes I can't find anything extra that I needed.
As for W8: I have not tried it so I can't say how bad it is. But it took me some time to figure out in W7 how to hack the registry, install alternative drivers, and enable/disable services that were not required but would not crash the machine. For me these things are important. Otherwise some of my programs won't run on a laptop. The W8 version of a CAD package that I am using costs a massive U$15K. The W7 version was U$5K and won't run on W8. My accounts package runs on SQL 2005. It won't run on SQL 2008. But W8 might not run SQL 2005. The current version of my accounts package would cost £2K a year if I had to use SQL 2008.
I am looking at it from a business user perspective. It's not just about the interface. The business software that have been updated to run on W8 add an extra cost that cannot be ignored when deciding to switch over or not.
You miss my point Martin, it was an example of how they ride over previous generations of functionality causing their user base pain.... As for trailblazers! LOL!
The biggest issue facing Apple is clear direction. IOS and OSX are best kept separate IMHO, one size does not fit all.
Edit The laptop market is moving to tablet has been for a while.
What does Office 2013 bring to the table that Office 2003 or Office 2007 didn't?
For me, the big one is complete SkyDrive integration. Now that I keep all my home docs in SkyDrive and my key work docs there too, I can seamlessly open and edit docs from my desktops, laptop, tablet and phone wherever I am.
Outlook 2013 is also improved in various areas and integrates Exchange and Outlook.com accounts nicely. Otherwise, the interface is touch friendly and there are various small changes. Oh, it's blindingly fast, too.
Audioman
31-05-2013, 08:26
What does Office 2013 bring to the table that Office 2003 or Office 2007 didn't? As far as the average user goes I can't find anything extra that I needed.
As for W8: I have not tried it so I can't say how bad it is. But it took me some time to figure out in W7 how to hack the registry, install alternative drivers, and enable/disable services that were not required but would not crash the machine. For me these things are important. Otherwise some of my programs won't run on a laptop. The W8 version of a CAD package that I am using costs a massive U$15K. The W7 version was U$5K and won't run on W8. My accounts package runs on SQL 2005. It won't run on SQL 2008. But W8 might not run SQL 2005. The current version of my accounts package would cost £2K a year if I had to use SQL 2008.
I am looking at it from a business user perspective. It's not just about the interface. The business software that have been updated to run on W8 add an extra cost that cannot be ignored when deciding to switch over or not.
Have you tried running in windows compatibility mode?
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/get-apps-devices-working
For me, the big one is complete SkyDrive integration.
That's the clincher and a fantastic facility to be able to seamlessly access your information from different access points and devices - brilliant :)
Horses for courses I guess?
The W8 version of a CAD package that I am using costs a massive U$15K. The W7 version was U$5K and won't run on W8. My accounts package runs on SQL 2005. It won't run on SQL 2008. But W8 might not run SQL 2005. The current version of my accounts package would cost £2K a year if I had to use SQL 2008.
Ouch. The only way you would know if your CAD package will run under W8 is to try it in compatibility mode. I haven't come across anything that flat won't work, but that sort of software is likely to test it pretty thoroughly. SQL 2005 is pretty much end of life I believe. Again, you could upgrade SQL 2005 to 2008 R2 (or even 2012) and run your DB app in '2005' compatibility mode to see whether it works (you can set that in SQL Management Studio). I wouldn't bet on it, though.
In both cases, you're going to need a test W8 box.
StanleyB
31-05-2013, 09:05
In both cases, you're going to need a test W8 box.
That's one thing I am preparing myself for.
Can you imagine the cost for many businesses wanting to switch to W8 but don't have an internal IT expert? MS should have made W8 with a fully backwards compatible look and feel option.
MS should have made W8 with a fully backwards compatible look and feel option.
As much as that seems a good option Stan, I think the practicalities of that would be prohibitive. IT moves forward at an exponential rate as we all know and we get great toys as a result. It just takes a little effort to stay on the curve and go with it to reap the benefits ;)
I think its clearly a lot harder for folks who initially grew up without computers, whereas folks born in the last 20 years don't know a world without them and readily accept change.
I have to interact with a large number of people in relation to computer use and they are all ages and genders. They are all supposedly intelligent people who use computers on a daily basis, but their knowledge levels are appallingly bad - and their inability to understand what is in front of them is also puzzling...
Tell me about it :rolleyes:
Not Windows 8 related, but this from a 'phone call I received this morning from someone I give informal IT support to:
Caller: "Keith, got a problem with my PC - can't print"
Me: "are you getting an error message?"
Caller: "Yes."
Me: "...and what does it say"
Caller: "Dunno. Summat about a DILL" (sic)
Me: "try to print again and read out what it says"
Caller: "same thing"
Me: "...which was?"
Caller: "Dunno - it was just gobbledygook"
this went on for some time... And this person has used a PC everyday for at least the last 25 years :doh:
They seem to defocus and are unable to read an error message on-screen, like a form of computerised dyslexia. Perhaps there's a serum available for the malaise? Sophos ErrorCream or Norton StopBoxProtect?
Windows point update coming this month.
Options to boot straight into desktop and the return of the Start button, according to a MS early blog.
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/30/continuing-the-windows-8-vision-with-windows-8-1.aspx
If you need the start button back, just install something like Classic Shell or one of the others.
http://www.howtogeek.com/127699/6-start-menu-replacements-for-windows-8/
return of the Start button
See above, Gary, we've been having a laugh about it.
If you need the start button back, just install something like Classic Shell or one of the others.
It's much better to embrace and learn W8 than to add a third party piece of software that impacts the deep down functionality of the OS and could break it at any time, or not keep up with updates. I issue this as a public service announcement as it could render W8 suboptimal for the want of 20 mins of learning.
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/blue-start-experience-changes
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/blue-start-experience-changes
Thanks for that Martin, love that wallpaper too.
The thing is and I know you may not agree, but look at what we have at the moment? MS has a huge fan base, possibly larger than Apples, but I have no idea of the numbers. Computing around 3.1 & 3.11 was mainly for the geeks and businesses and then along came 95 - ground breaking and this O/S opened up the world of home computing to the masses and at that time they had no real competition. 98, 98SE and its still all good. Apple starts to make an impact and we have too roads to go along and I think mostly, people have now stuck to the same road. Pro's and cons for both MS and Apple and never the twain shall meet, but who is right and who is wrong. Just pick what works for you?
Then XP arrives and its a stonker, nothing like it and its still here after nearly 12 years, because people like it and know how to use it, its comfortable. Vista was much maligned, mostly unfairly and the PC makers didn't help by selling machines that TBH were not up to the job. Vista x64 on a decent spec machine was and still is, a good O/S (I won't mention ME :lol:).
Next up we had 7, which gave folks what Vista should have been, the best O/S since XP. But XP was around for a decade before 8 and 8 is a great O/S, but why fix what isn't broken? Give people a GUI they know and put Metro the other side and 8 could have been a roaring success, especially at £24.99. The internet these days can kill something before it even draws a breath and 8 was ripped apart before it was released, even I had my doubts after reading some reports, but I tried it out, as I always do to find out for myself, but we have seen it in this very thread, people will happily rubbish it without knowing the first thing about it, which drives me nuts - have an opinion yes, but at least base that opinion on what you know, not what you read on some fecking forum :steam:
This update is what they have to do to get people on-board, but they may be too late for many and have shot themselves in the foot (again). If they don't fix this before XP support runs out next April, people are just going to go out and buy a Mac - who is to blame I don't know, but poor old Steve Balmer will be looking over his shoulder that's for sure, it they come looking for a scapegoat. Both Apple and MS have I think lost their way without their visionaries at the helm.
Just my 2 cents ;)
I am less forgiving of Vista than you, Tim, mostly because I remember how unstable the RTM version was. Blue screen city! I lay the whole Vista fiasco firmly at the feet of Steve Ballmer, for whom I have very little respect. Compared with Bill Gates, he's a complete dunce and is a total liability for Microsoft. I know a little about the Steve Sinofsky story and, despite his being a domineering character and not universally liked, I think he should have taken over the reins.
Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs either, and is making an arse of himself in the mobile phone space. No large screen iPhone because of screen quality, brightness and battery life, eh? The idiot clearly hasn't played with a Samsung ATIV S or Galaxy SIII then. They both run rings around an iPhone in all parameters.
On that we are agreed: both companies have lost their visionary leaders.
Audioman
31-05-2013, 22:18
I am less forgiving of Vista than you, Tim, mostly because I remember how unstable the RTM version was. Blue screen city! I lay the whole Vista fiasco firmly at the feet of Steve Ballmer, for whom I have very little respect. Compared with Bill Gates, he's a complete dunce and is a total liability for Microsoft. I know a little about the Steve Sinofsky story and, despite his being a domineering character and not universally liked, I think he should have taken over the reins.
Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs either, and is making an arse of himself in the mobile phone space. No large screen iPhone because of screen quality, brightness and battery life, eh? The idiot clearly hasn't played with a Samsung ATIV S or Galaxy SIII then. They both run rings around an iPhone in all parameters.
On that we are agreed: both companies have lost their visionary leaders.
In my view both companies were so dependent on one individual's genius that they will ultimately wither on the vine. I can see Apple especially getting into difficulties. Eventually the competition gets it's act together and customers get wise to the alternatives. Google are lurking and I don't rule out open source gathering momentum sooner rather than later.
Tim. A significant number of people are not going to buy a Mac even if MS screw up simply because they are different and overpriced. Most companies and households are pretty much tied into MS for the time being. It's taking too big a risk with their job for IT professionals to take the bold step of going over to Linux and Open Office / Libre office.
Paul.
Not to forget Samsung, an awesomely powerful company with their fingers in many pies.
HOWEVER: Microsoft have something that Apple don't, incredible dominance in the corporate server/SQL/Exchange/Sharepoint arena.
Not to forget Samsung, an awesomely powerful company with their fingers in many pies.
Who also make a lot of what's inside an Apple product, which kind of makes me chuckle when those two slog it out in court ;)
I actually like Samsung gear and have quite a bit of it, I'm a big fan of their 24" monitor which I'm staring at right now and has been going strong for a number of years.
Yep, got a 27" Samsung monitor at home and a 24" at work. Not forgetting my superb ATIV S phone.
Got W8.1 beta on my Surface RT. Very nice with lots of subtle new features and very slick and fast. There's nothing not to like here!
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3808/9153534084_acc7db7005_b.jpg
Click here (http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/26/windows-8-1-hands-on/) for lots more information.
I got the ISO today Martin, but I have a busy time ahead, so not sure when I will get the chance to try it out yet?
Give it a good hour at least on a fast machine, Tim. I've done two upgrades now, an RT and a W8 Pro on a domain. Both have worked fine although the latter, surprisingly, took considerably longer.
Is the ISO a straight install Martin, or does it needs a previous version of Windows?
We've upgraded Windows 8 to 8.1 with both the online upgrade (via the Store) and the ISO. As it's a Preview, I'm not sure if it will perform a fresh install.
I'm going to create an Acronis backup of my music server and try it on there first - booting direct to the desktop appeals, but I'm not fussed about the Start button.
One thing that is useful is the right-click Start button menu, which gives you access to a number of management and Control Panel sub-menus.
I really like Windows 8 even the start screen which I see as a souped up start button or run command.
Will be upgrading to 8.1 when it goes live, happy to wait for the final version.
The right click start button system menu is a good thing, is it much different though from the keyboard shortcut Win+X?
Wonder if it will be customisable too.
I really like Windows 8 even the start screen which I see as a souped up start button or run command.
Will be upgrading to 8.1 when it goes live, happy to wait for the final version.
The right click start button system menu is a good thing, is it much different though from the keyboard shortcut Win+X?
I think there's shutdown options, is that right?
is it much different though from the keyboard shortcut Win+X?
No, it's exactly the same. I agree that the Start Screen is the Start Menu and the creation of a Start Button is simply a sop to those who couldn't learn to use the alternatives.
Win 8.1 looks very stable so far in my heavyweight testing - all our enterprise applications run without problems and both Remote Server Administration tools and Exchange Management Console work perfectly.
I've just noticed today that Outlook 2013 was on my Surface RT after upgrading it to the 8.1 Preview. This is it - the killer App that I needed to make my tablet complete! With full Exchange connectivity and support for personal accounts such as Outlook.com (Hotmail), this gives the RT the full monty e-mail handling that Outlook 2013 for desktop gives (bar a very few unimportant limitations). It even syncs our SharePoint shared calendars. Very, very nice!
I still like 7 better we have 8 in our computer in the store another Lenovo and it really is not made for a desk top or really anything that is not a touch screen.
Nosheen likes it as she dose social media like face book but if you ask me win 8 is for fun but 7 is for doing business.
Martin my son has turned a 800mhz. front side bus into a 200 mhz. front side bus in my 2.5 gig. T61 it had 8 gigs fast DDR2 and a Samsung 500 gig SSD and the Nvidia quadro 140 NVS so it was a pretty fast T61. Used to boot win7 in 8 seconds!
He spilled juice all over it and it glued up the fan and damaged the mother board.
I got permission from Nosheen and ordered a brand spanking new T430 with the i7 ,16 gigs ddr3, Nvidia graffix with 1 gig ddr3 but can use up to 2 gigs borrowed from the other 16.
Even better the video card can be removed and upgraded as better cards are offered over the years.
I loaded this thing with every possible bell and whistle high def screen 14inch.
It takes 3 weeks as it's a custom build. Conner will not be using the new laptop. I feel like a kid waiting on Christmas !
Anyway when selecting the operating system seems almost all new T series are still ordered with Win 7 not 8.
I do think win 8.1 may change that but 8 so far has not gotten a lot of love here in the U.S.with most business users.
Why can't they put the shutdown button on the start screen?
it really is not made for a desk top or really anything that is not a touch screen
.
.
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Why can't they put the shutdown button on the start screen?
Each to their own, Jeff, and I respect your experience. I can't agree with you, though, as I used 8 (and now 8.1) for business at work and at home. To me, the smooth transition from my 4.8" Windows Phone to my 10" tablet to my 27" desktop is wonderful. It matters not whether I use the touch interface or mouse or keyboard, the productivity is excellent. The tight integration with SkyDrive means that everything I work on is available everywhere, even to the exact document and page I was on the last time I used Word 2013.
Shutdown is easily reached from the Start Screen, Charms (right-swipe or hover top-right or Win-C).
I guess I'm just slow to change Martin.
I haven't been doing much on the computer over the last couple on months at work we still use XP at home win 7 and at the store 8.
It would probably be a good idea to spend more time on 8 and work through my own reservations as 8 is not going away like vista.
cpjvej2012
05-07-2013, 21:41
I dont use Windows, Linux all the way for me.
This is a tad disturbing... :eek:
http://americablog.com/2013/08/leaked-german-government-warns-key-entities-use-windows-8-computers-potential-backdoor-nsa.html
I had reservations about this operating system well before this story broke, however now there is no way I would let it loose on any of my computers... :eyebrows: It appears I have until 2020 to learn to use Linux proficiently because Win 7 will be secure up until this date (more likely this is the date when support for Win 7 will be dropped by MS).
Figlet108
23-08-2013, 18:29
Dave, actually it's not as bad as it sounds. The thing they are talking about is only possible if your hardware contains a TPM chip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module).
I'm pretty sure not all future machines will have this chip, and if they do us Geeks will rise up and find a way to bypass it.
The Geeks will lead the revolution!
This is a tad disturbing...
Not really. I know of hardly any company using Trusted Computing because it's a) expensive, b) an American security system and c) not trusted!
Unless you have a TPM chip and have enabled it, there's nothing to worry about. W8 is still the most secure version of Windows out there.
I see Lenovo are releasing all there new computers with some after market software which is giving buyers a 'real' start button for Windows 8. I wonder if Microsoft will tweak 8.1 before its final release now. Seems this Start issue isn't going away for them and I bet they are pissed at Lenovo?
Shame really, its not that fricking difficult to work out the myriad of different ways to do what you want :rolleyes:
walpurgis
23-08-2013, 23:33
The customer should have the option to choose what they like, and that's not necessarily what is thrust upon them. It will be interesting to see what Microsoft offer in Windows 9 (and the forthcoming updated Windows 8 variants). There may already be info about. I haven't looked yet.
I see Lenovo are releasing all there new computers with some after market software which is giving buyers a 'real' start button for Windows 8. I wonder if Microsoft will tweak 8.1 before its final release now. Seems this Start issue isn't going away for them and I bet they are pissed at Lenovo?
Shame really, its not that fricking difficult to work out the myriad of different ways to do what you want :rolleyes:
Considering the p*ss poor take up of Win 8 MS need to do everything they can to increase sales, so if it's a Start button the punter wants, that's what they'll get. It won't change how you use it though Tim. I'm wondering when desktop and laptop manufacturers will eventually cotton on to the fact that it is Win 8 which is killing their sales...
Considering the p*ss poor take up of Win 8 MS
I've got to disagree with you here Dave, as its not quite that simplistic - desktop/laptop sales are down across the board because of the growing tablet market and as MS have the lions share of PC sales, then it appears that way, but its not the whole picture. If folk tried Windows 8 with an SSD in their machine, I think a lot would be eating their words when they see its performance and that they could give themselves a huge boost without buying a new machine, not to mention the improved security and usability ;)
Agreed Tim, tablet sales are part of it but I have lost count of the people I know who have bought machines with Win 8 installed, hated it, bought Win 7 disks from ebay or elsewhere and have installed that instead. That's gotta say something. Granted there are those who like Win 8 but there are a helluva lot more who don't. I can see MS being forced to start re-issuing Win 7 at some point to kickstart desktop & lappy sales to bolster their market share and the industry in general. I'm sure Win 7 installed on an SSD is pretty quick too ;)
The recent German government disclosure that a backdoor has been discovered which allows MS and therefore the US government to enter Win 8 equipped machines without the users knowledge will not help sales any either. Regardless of whether this is accurate or not, mud sticks. Perhaps the NSA will think twice about spying on its European allies at important international conferences in future as it only serves to provoke this type of reaction...
Ninanina
24-08-2013, 01:16
I have made a living out of programming Microsoft based pc's for the last 25+ years (yeah I really am THAT old!!)
However I have always had the thought that Microsoft Windows (of any ilk!) has always been a bit "noddy", ties up far too much memory and processing power and is just "for the masses"; I never really liked it
BUT less than 2 years ago I had my first exposure to the Apple OSX operating system and let me tell you that the way it is written, in the language it is written, and in the way it behaves it is 'head and shoulders' beyond ANYTHING Microsoft has ever produced
As far as Windows 8 is concerned, I've taken a look and I am just amazed how bad it is
I don't spend loads on my computer needs; I run a simple Apple Mac Mini (which I purchased secondhand for £250) with a tv as my monitor and I couldn't be happier. And believe me I know what I'm saying re: puters.... ;)
Do yourselves a favour and buy a cheap Mac Mini and you will be amazed
I run NO anti virus programs on my Mac and it runs as fast today as when I purchased it a couple of years ago; It boots up in about 50 seconds and shuts down in about 4 seconds
I can see MS being forced to start re-issuing Win 7 at some point to kickstart desktop & lappy sales to bolster their market share and the industry in general.
That'll never happen . . . have you tried it yourself yet Dave?
I'm sure Win 7 installed on an SSD is pretty quick too
W8 is faster, its been built with SSD's in mind, unlike previous versions of Windows. There are geek videos on YouTube with boot demos, but its not just the faster boot times, its the almost instant shutdown times and general increased speed.
It boots up in about 50 seconds and shuts down in about 4 seconds
Power button on to the desktop with an SSD = 22 seconds on my W8 machine.
Wouldn't have a MacMini if you gave it to me ;)
Ninanina
24-08-2013, 01:34
Power button on to the desktop with an SSD = 22 seconds on my W8 machine.
Wouldn't have a MacMini if you gave it to me ;)
Boot and shut down time are obviously not the ONLY reason to go to Apples OSX operating system, it is just superior in so many ways... it'd take me a month of Sundays to describe how it is just better than ANY Microsoft based machine... BUT it just IS better, whether you have an iMac, a Mac Mini, a Mac Book Pro, or whatever it doesn't matter as long as it runs OSX
Tim why wouldn't you have a Mac Mini? Have you owned one?
Here we go again with lack of experience disguised as expert opinion. Windows 8.1 is a beautiful thing. I use it - as an IT Manager - in my everyday work to support my systems and also in my leisure activity. I'm using it now. I am also rolling it out to our senior managers in the form of Dell Latitude 10s and they love it - because they've been properly trained. 8.1 won't need any third-party add-on nonsense as everything works as intended and it's fast and fluid. A Mac user even commented on how fast my Surface is when he tried it out yesterday. I can't say more than I put W8 on my three primary machines the moment it came out because it's so fast and makes me productive. I upgraded all three to 8.1 which is unprecedented for me as I rely on my machines for work. I did it because it's superb and I have the choice of every OS under the sun through our volume licence agreement.
I have to support all manner of OS and I can tell you than MacOS is a dog's dinner, not nearly as nice as it's made to look and we send a disproportionate number of MacBooks away for repair because they fail too often for their price level. I personally find MacOS a mess and would never want to use one for my work. As for iOS, let me just say that it is useless in the corporate world: no shared file structure, poor awareness of network resources, incomplete implementation of Exchange mail, I could go on. iPads are no good to us, Windows tablets are the way (and Android is quite nice, too).
What I'm really trying to say is there is always another side to a story and lots of people on the internet expressing an opinion without having tried it gets my goat. A silly scare story about Trusted Computing chips (something almost no-one uses) doesn't help. And neither did that complete a*se Steve Ballmer of Microsoft do the right things. I am so glad he is going as he was responsible for Vista (a rightly criticised disaster) and misdirecting his resources. Apple are missing Steve Jobs, too. BOTH companies need to pull their socks up and regroup. Samsung is coming!
I run NO anti virus programs on my Mac
That's very dangerous and you're inviting disaster. We see a lot of virus activity on MacOS and I suggest you get a hold of Sophos AV for Mac Free Edition and install it as soon as you can.
No, its not "very dangerous", there is a small risk though to using a Mac without Anti-virus but with Unix sandboxing and Apple's Gatekeeper function the risk is minimal, if paranoid then go-ahead and use an Anti Virus program for a belt n braces approach. Windows will always be the bigger target for malware and viruses because of the larger installed base and that historically its a lot easier to hack. The evidence over, what the last ten years?, shows that the risk to OSX is unbelievably small compared to Windows.
As for the other stuff about OSX being a Dogs Dinner! Well all I'll say is :lol: Its strange, our company has been using Windows since its inception and is still primarily Windows based but there is a steady movement over to Apple products for the sales and marketing teams and also back room staff as employees realize just how easy and more productive a Mac is. I helped set up a Mac for one of our Sales directors last week and he's been over the moon with it, everything just works, he's taken to it like a duck to water, minimal training and he's up and running and productive.
Gordon Steadman
24-08-2013, 08:55
Here we go again with lack of experience disguised as expert opinion. Windows 8.1 is a beautiful thing. I use it - as an IT Manager - in my everyday work to support my systems and also in my leisure activity. I'm using it now. I am also rolling it out to our senior managers in the form of Dell Latitude 10s and they love it - because they've been properly trained. 8.1 won't need any third-party add-on nonsense as everything works as intended and it's fast and fluid. A Mac user even commented on how fast my Surface is when he tried it out yesterday. I can't say more than I put W8 on my three primary machines the moment it came out because it's so fast and makes me productive. I upgraded all three to 8.1 which is unprecedented for me as I rely on my machines for work. I did it because it's superb and I have the choice of every OS under the sun through our volume licence agreement.
I have to support all manner of OS and I can tell you than MacOS is a dog's dinner, not nearly as nice as it's made to look and we send a disproportionate number of MacBooks away for repair because they fail too often for their price level. I personally find MacOS a mess and would never want to use one for my work. As for iOS, let me just say that it is useless in the corporate world: no shared file structure, poor awareness of network resources, incomplete implementation of Exchange mail, I could go on. iPads are no good to us, Windows tablets are the way (and Android is quite nice, too).
What I'm really trying to say is there is always another side to a story and lots of people on the internet expressing an opinion without having tried it gets my goat. A silly scare story about Trusted Computing chips (something almost no-one uses) doesn't help. And neither did that complete a*se Steve Ballmer of Microsoft do the right things. I am so glad he is going as he was responsible for Vista (a rightly criticised disaster) and misdirecting his resources. Apple are missing Steve Jobs, too. BOTH companies need to pull their socks up and regroup. Samsung is coming!
As usual, a load of rubbish from............. ah hang on...we all think differently and experience things in a different way. I have always thought and still think that Windoze is a load of bollocks and anyone with an ounce of sense or artistic appreciation would use MacOs. My nephew ran the systems at one of the major publishing houses. He had to support Macs and PCs. he wouldn't dream of using a PC or anything with Windoze on himself.
I have tried Android tablets and they suck in comparison with the iPad - just my opinion, thats all it can be.
MacOs is stable and a joy to use and it suits my way of thinking. Others obviously disagree and thats fine. There is room for both and I can never understand why it all gets so intense. Its just another product to choose.
Android has taken over from Windoze as the system that most use. It doesn't make it better - far from it - but its cheap, works sort of and there will always be a part of the market that doesn't 'get' the Mac.
That's OK.
Audioman
24-08-2013, 09:15
To suggest any computer running any operating system and connected to the internet is safe today without ant-virus and firewall is naive to damn stupid. I wouldn't call OSX a dogs dinner but it is introducing yet another OS to learn and support. Apple was always favoured and considered superior for graphic design and publishing. However that view was based on DOS and early versions of Windows. Today's Microsoft products have become much slicker and there is in reality little difference except Apple products remain relatively expensive and Apple are even less focused on personnel (desktop) computing today than Microsoft. A good reason to stick with PCs in my view especially if your job involves responsibility for the IT budget.
Gordon Steadman
24-08-2013, 09:33
That's very dangerous and you're inviting disaster. We see a lot of virus activity on MacOS and I suggest you get a hold of Sophos AV for Mac Free Edition and install it as soon as you can.
I have Sophos installed just in case. I've used Macs since 1985 and am of the old 'laugh at virus' school. However, it doesn't hurt to play safe, especially as its free and, as far as I can tell, has no bad effect of the running of MacOs.
I have some experience of Win 8 and guess what, I don't like it. Martin, as you well know I am a huge supporter of most of Microsofts OS's simply because that is where my experience lies (I even got on with Win ME when most wanted to flush it down the loo). Like the vast majority of the computer savvy population I expect, for decades I've used Windows machines simply because they are such good value compared to their Apple brethren (no disrespect intended to Apple users here, it's only that I have little to no experience of using Apple OS other than that on an iPad plus I find their machines to be over priced for what they are), however Win 8 just doesn't feel right to me, which is strange in itself as I have always been an early adopter whenever MS have released a new OS (which on occasions has caused much consternation). I am very familiar with and comfortable using both Win 7 and XP and both OS's suit my needs perfectly, so I see very little to gain from moving to an OS I neither like nor find intuitive. Because I distrust the US political and security structures so intensely in regards to snooping by forcing US commercial concerns to furnish them with private data then logically my next move will be to Linux, I just need to get off my arse and learn how to use it properly.
bobbasrah
24-08-2013, 11:45
The snooping that has been going on for years is platform agnostic, and far from limited to the US Dave, but pretty much agree with the rest in terms of common usage and familiarity...
Waiting to see what the verdict is on the next iteration of MS, before finally upgrading my last machines from XP.... So long as it is not another Vistaspew moment.....
Have you owned one?
No I have never 'owned' one and never would, but I have used, examined and taken everyone one of the Apple digital product line apart in a forensic environment and I would never, ever buy one. I used to own an iPod when they first came out, but soon realised it would never work for me. Have you ever tired to upgrade an Apple product or change an exhausted battery? We have been here many times before and I'm not going to defend my dislike at length, so here's the main bullet points I have an issue with;
The company ethos
Price
Service/repair costs
iTunes (that's a big one being a music fan)
Many of their brainwashed evangelical followers I find particularly disturbing on a human level, their products seem to be able to alter and influence behavioural patterns
Apple Churches showrooms
I could go on for a long time, but in the main as I build and maintain my own computers, Apple is not anything I would ever consider using and I don't have an Apple product in my home, nor ever would. Apple make expensive 'look what I've got' lifestyle designer products and I don't buy into such mainstream trinkets. They do look 'pretty', they do work, they are simple to use (too simple for me) so appeal to the masses and many seem to worship and obsess about them . . . never understood that at all and frankly such behaviour worries me :scratch:
But each to their own, pick what works for you, but I personally don't consider Apple products to be good value for money and they are so locked down that for my purposes they are totally unusable and not an option. You shouldn't have to jail break an electronic product just to be able to use it to its full potential, that's too much control and that makes me uncomfortable.
Final point and this is advice on a professional level, if you connect a computing device to the internet (any device) you are at risk and its folly to think as an Apple user you are OK, trust me you aren't. The consequences of getting this wrong can be life changing.
As a user of MacOS and MS Windows over the years and support of them, also being an IT Manager. I'd choose MacOS every time because it just works. I have many a friend who prefers Windows but they are of the techie disposition and will undoubtedly dislike Macs as they are not intended to be played with. Although maybe a little offensive, anyone who cannot get Macs to work on a Windows only network doesn't know what their doing.
Like any machine you have failures, but there are a lot more variety PC makes on the market so undoubtedly they are likely to fail more, but if a Mac fails there is only one company you can blame, Apple.
Paul.
I build my own PC's which I have always found to be a very cost effective approach, plus I get to choose what OS to put on it. If it goes wrong then I have to fix it and I usually learn something new in the process ;)
Here's an interesting thought which just came to me into the shower and its not something I have ever pondered about or even considered previously?
I am surrounded by computers and digital devices on a daily basis at work and I guess most people would consider us/me geeks. However, the people I really seem to connect with in the office as those non-Apple users. The majority of the office, probably 60/40 have an iPhone but I don't consider those people my closest work colleagues in fact two of them I positively dislike, we just have very different personalities. Switch that outside the work environment and none of what I would call my close friends are Apple follower's, none have an iPhone and all have PC's at home . . . this is intriguing and as I say, its not something I have ever thought about either. So there is clearly something in the human psyche that connects with Apple fans and I'm clearly not one of those and the people I connect and choose to share my personal life with aren't either. It seems to be more than just a consumer product, its tapped into our personality somehow, or it certainly is in my case :scratch:
Now that I find very interesting?
Gordon Steadman
24-08-2013, 12:44
Here's an interesting thought which just came to me into the shower and its not something I have ever pondered about or even considered previously?
I am surrounded by computers and digital devices on a daily basis at work and I guess most people would consider us/me geeks. However, the people I really seem to connect with in the office as those non-Apple users. The majority of the office, probably 60/40 have an iPhone but I don't consider those people my closest work colleagues in fact two of them I positively dislike, we just have very different personalities. Switch that outside the work environment and none of what I would call my close friends are Apple follower's, none have an iPhone and all have PC's at home . . . this is intriguing and as I say, its not something I have ever thought about either. So there is clearly something in the human psyche that connects with Apple fans and I'm clearly not one of those and the people I connect and choose to share my personal life with aren't either. It seems to be more than just a consumer product, its tapped into our personality somehow, or it certainly is in my case :scratch:
Now that I find very interesting?
Absolutely. The choice with anything you buy is the same. The problem is when you are connected with the industry involved. In hi-fi the choices get personal and so in computing. Don't understand it. Is there this sort of thing with washing machines, hair driers etc??
We all make emotional as well as rational choices when we buy stuff. The Mac suits me as a user because I like the way it works and I have never had one go wrong. They are all up in the loft as I upgraded!!
Most of my friends use PCs but because they have been told they can't afford a Mac which is rubbish. Most people don't want to take their washing machine apart, why should they want to do it with their computer? Its just there to do a job in a way that suits the individual.
All this crap about iTunes too. Its great, works in a logical way and lays it all out the way I like. I LIKE. You saying you don't like it is meaningless to me just like your choice of TV program would be.
If you worry about the way a company works and really knew, you would have to make and grow everything yourself.
Here's an interesting thought which just came to me into the shower and its not something I have ever pondered about or even considered previously?
I am surrounded by computers and digital devices on a daily basis at work and I guess most people would consider us/me geeks. However, the people I really seem to connect with in the office as those non-Apple users. The majority of the office, probably 60/40 have an iPhone but I don't consider those people my closest work colleagues in fact two of them I positively dislike, we just have very different personalities. Switch that outside the work environment and none of what I would call my close friends are Apple follower's, none have an iPhone and all have PC's at home . . . this is intriguing and as I say, its not something I have ever thought about either. So there is clearly something in the human psyche that connects with Apple fans and I'm clearly not one of those and the people I connect and choose to share my personal life with aren't either. It seems to be more than just a consumer product, its tapped into our personality somehow, or it certainly is in my case :scratch:
Now that I find very interesting?
I agree with you entirely there Tim... For me, for the majority, the people I associate with outside of work (not on internet like forums) are Apple users of some viariety or want to be Apple users... The only example this is different is with my Uncle who is a PC devote, but again, he is what I would call a true IT techie... he likes to play / build his own machines...
Apple users on the whole just want to access those services a PC user would but without having the trouble of building / altering etc.
I for one started my IT career in the techie world and wouldn't go back to that world if you gave me all of the tea in china but I have associates in the office that love that life. But then again they couldn't and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our customers or manage anyone!
All different types I suppose. Maybe its a show-off thing. For example, I'd openly admit that I love BMW, Mercedes and Audi's for their Executive status even though you could generally buy an equally good and in some ways better car from another make...
Paul.
All this crap about iTunes too. Its great, works in a logical way and lays it all out the way I like.
Totally agree with that Gordon, it does what it says on the tin which for most people is all they want or need. I am passionate about music and supporting artists and I dislike the whole iTunes business model, not the product itself. If you are interested Pete Townsend had a lot to say about iTunes and how damaging it has been to the industry and the artists themselves. Its one of the John Peel lectures and can still be found online if you want to know more. But his points are exactly how I feel about iTunes and are the reason I don't like it.
Anyway, I'm out, as its very difficult for Apple fans to understand a lot of this as they tend to view it from an end-user perspective and that's not where I am coming from, especially when it comes to iTunes. I am passionate about supporting the people who bring pleasure to my life and I personally feel that Apple exploit those people. No doubt you will disagree, but that's my opinion ;)
Figlet108
24-08-2013, 13:07
Paul,
here's a different perspective.
In my world of software engineering, the techies (i.e. the developers writing and testing code) hugely prefer Macs to Windows because a Mac uses unix and has a familiar Bash shell to interact with along with the full breadth of unix based development tools etc.
Add to that all of the usual consumer apps for day to day and social tasks and right there you have a single tool for work and play.
Having said that and to balance the religious argument, I use Mac, Win and Android in equal measure for work and play and love/hate them all with equal measure. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, they all go through phases of being stable or crashing and I regard each one as a different tool in the tool bag for difference purposes (obviously with some overlap). Yes Macs are overpriced and bad VFM. Yes there are many unbalanced Mac fanatics out there. But I LOVE Mac Mail - nothing else comes close for me on any platform. I would never use a Mac for playing music. I hate iPhones and love Android. In the end who cares, it's just stuff.
Out of interest one of my previous jobs involved (my team mostly) getting very close and intimate with the code for the various OSes and *from a code perspective* they hated linux because they found it badly written and all over the place; MacOS was better; Windows was BLOATED; but the best by far was SPARC Solaris - anyone remember that (not a consumer OS I know)
Paul,
here's a different perspective.
In my world of software engineering, the techies (i.e. the developers writing and testing code) hugely prefer Macs to Windows because a Mac uses unix and has a familiar Bash shell to interact with along with the full breadth of unix based development tools etc.
Add to that all of the usual consumer apps for day to day and social tasks and right there you have a single tool for work and play.
Having said that and to balance the religious argument, I use Mac, Win and Android in equal measure for work and play and love/hate them all with equal measure. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, they all go through phases of being stable or crashing and I regard each one as a different tool in the tool bag for difference purposes (obviously with some overlap). Yes Macs are overpriced and bad VFM. Yes there are many unbalanced Mac fanatics out there. But I LOVE Mac Mail - nothing else comes close for me on any platform. I would never use a Mac for playing music. I hate iPhones and love Android. In the end who cares, it's just stuff.
Out of interest one of my previous jobs involved (my team mostly) getting very close and intimate with the code for the various OSes and *from a code perspective* they hated linux because they found it badly written and all over the place; MacOS was better; Windows was BLOATED; but the best by far was SPARC Solaris - anyone remember that (not a consumer OS I know)
Nought wrong with that Jason,
When I was talking about techie's I was really coming from a BAU Operations or support perspective... but then I have had a series of difficult dealings with a number of 'difficult' techies so I am likely to be biased in one way or another :lol:
Certainly for me, a Mac just works... that is what I like about it... Although you are right, for instance at the moment, this iMac is running like a dog. Probably spent too much time looking at porn :lol: so I will undoubtedly have to re-build it soon but hey, it would be the first time in 4 years which is a record when compared to my experiences with Windows (or as Gordon states, Windoze) :lol:
Figlet108
24-08-2013, 13:29
Well right now I HATE THEM ALL:
A Win 7 machine I use in my lab as a 'recording studio' and for electronics work keeps freezing on shut down;
My Android phone updated itself a few weeks ago and now just crashes all the time including mid conversation;
My MacBookPro is just falling apart - it's the pre unibody model and the build of those is unbelieveably bad;
I think I need a tech-free day out in the sun.. oh wait a minute :(
I wonder whether our different perspectives have as much to do with how we each use our machines and care for them than the different styles of OS. I have a trusted suite of security software installed on all my machines which integrate well together and keep each machine free from the various nasties which cruise the net. I arrived at using this disparate group of programs through much trial and error over several years and the suite constantly evolves. Every member of this suite is provided free of charge and I run the entire suite once a week which takes no longer than 15 minutes. Consequently I've not suffered from any BSOD's or other Windoze problems for over four years now, which is a record for me. Previously, when using Vista, I could bank on at least one BSOD incident a day regardless of how well I maintained the system so the stable performance of Win 7 was a very welcome relief. I have noticed that with ever more updates from MS my Win 7 installs are not quite as speedy as they used to be, but much of that is probably due to the increasing age of the hardware I am running it on, for example my desktop machine, which doubles as my music server, is nearly six years old (it is actaully my old gaming rig which was pretty capable in its day). I am looking into building a new music server soon and it will be an entirely different prospect from the current rig, small format, no fans and it will be powered by a linear PS plus it will be running Linux, hopefully ;)
Glad to see the ill informed stereotyping of Apple users and products is alive and well. :mental:
Glad to see the ill informed stereotyping of Apple users and products is alive and well. :mental:
:lol:
Glad to see the ill informed stereotyping of Apple users and products is alive and well. :mental:
I know, funny isn't it :D
Ninanina
24-08-2013, 18:38
Glad to see the ill informed stereotyping of Apple users and products is alive and well. :mental:
I agree... :thumbsup:
It's quite ridiculous and I for one do NOT fit with pretty much any of the comments made about Apple users ;)
The amusing bit is the seemingly irresistible desire for some folk to enter into a Windows OS discussion and declare that the best road is the Apple road . . . but it happens everytime ;)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg.html)
See ya.
Gordon Steadman
24-08-2013, 19:37
The amusing bit is the seemingly irresistible desire for some folk to enter into a Windows OS discussion and declare that the best road is the Apple road . . . but it happens everytime ;)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg.html)
See ya.
You really can't help yourself can you? Someone always has to come and have the last word. Why can't anyone see this is just all down to personal choice and stop knocking someone's different choice, its so childish.
walpurgis
24-08-2013, 19:40
I thought everybody was entitled to the last word. Come on lets all have one. :)
Audioman
24-08-2013, 20:06
I wonder whether our different perspectives have as much to do with how we each use our machines and care for them than the different styles of OS. I have a trusted suite of security software installed on all my machines which integrate well together and keep each machine free from the various nasties which cruise the net. I arrived at using this disparate group of programs through much trial and error over several years and the suite constantly evolves. Every member of this suite is provided free of charge and I run the entire suite once a week which takes no longer than 15 minutes. Consequently I've not suffered from any BSOD's or other Windoze problems for over four years now, which is a record for me. Previously, when using Vista, I could bank on at least one BSOD incident a day regardless of how well I maintained the system so the stable performance of Win 7 was a very welcome relief. I have noticed that with ever more updates from MS my Win 7 installs are not quite as speedy as they used to be, but much of that is probably due to the increasing age of the hardware I am running it on, for example my desktop machine, which doubles as my music server, is nearly six years old (it is actaully my old gaming rig which was pretty capable in its day). I am looking into building a new music server soon and it will be an entirely different prospect from the current rig, small format, no fans and it will be powered by a linear PS plus it will be running Linux, hopefully ;)
Been running Vista for 6 years and only had one BSOD incident in that time. I wonder if a lot of Vista problems are related to running on inappropriate hardware? Perhaps it is more fussy in this respect than 7. Anyway big step up from win 98 - now BSOD was pretty common on the older DOS based windows OSs.
I've been running Vista for about the same time. I know it's thought to be poor and that many people have experienced problems with it, but I can honestly say I have not. Had to look up what BSOD meant, as it is something that has never happened to me.
I've been running Vista for about the same time. I know it's thought to be poor and that many people have experienced problems with it, but I can honestly say I have not. Had to look up what BSOD meant, as it is something that has never happened to me.
You are not alone Barry, my partners desktop PC is running Vista and it is at least as stable as my Win 7 PC's. Can't explain it myself but there ya go, she's happy anyway :)
My Android phone updated itself a few weeks ago and now just crashes all the time including mid conversation(
You should try and reset it
walpurgis
24-08-2013, 21:32
My brother and my daughter have laptops that were supplied new with Vista and both are desperately slow, even though I've de-cluttered them and used a few 'speed up' tricks. Before I got my hands on them they were both on 'power saver' mode making them ludicrously slow. As they were both in static use I set them on 'high performance', which definitely helped, but they are still horribly slow. No doubt too little memory and processor capabilty from new. You'd think HP and Toshiba would turn out something better.
My brother and my daughter have laptops that were supplied new with Vista and both are desperately slow, even though I've de-cluttered them and used a few 'speed up' tricks. Before I got my hands on them they were both on 'power saver' mode making them ludicrously slow. As they were both in static use I set them on 'high performance', which definitely helped, but they are still horribly slow. No doubt too little memory and processor capabilty from new. You'd think HP and Toshiba would turn out something better.
Vista needs a bit of power to get it going. Jo's PC has a triple core AMD processor running at 2.6mhz and 4gb of DDR2 800mhz gaming ram and a 750gb HD (kinda old hat now but it was a very well specced PC 6 years ago). Even today it is a sprightly old lump... :)
My brother and my daughter have laptops that were supplied new with Vista and both are desperately slow, even though I've de-cluttered them and used a few 'speed up' tricks. Before I got my hands on them they were both on 'power saver' mode making them ludicrously slow. As they were both in static use I set them on 'high performance', which definitely helped, but they are still horribly slow. No doubt too little memory and processor capabilty from new. You'd think HP and Toshiba would turn out something better.
Na Geoff, we have a Toshiba laptop running Vista and it is ludicrously slow and had everything plus it's dog installed on it from new. Although I got out an old P90 IBM laptop I've had for years the other day and that is slower than slow but t he time they came out we all thought they were amazing. Onto my iMac, that keeps having the spinning ball popping up. Earlier i rebooted it and disconnected all of the external drives (that hold my movies and music) and it ran like a train. I readied the external disks and it slowed right down again...
Over the years I have developed software for Windows, Solaris, Lunix, DIOS, DOS, CPM... client, server, distributed, embedded, web, ...
But for development there is nothing like working on the Windows platform; the tools are so much better.
I have never owned any Apple products; no support of FLAC and being tied Down in their system ... no thank you
Guys can we keep the thread on track purely discussing the title subject, which is Windows 8, not the merits of different operating systems, be that Windoze or anything else. I will do likewise ;)
The amusing bit is the seemingly irresistible desire for some folk to enter into a Windows OS discussion and declare that the best road is the Apple road . . . but it happens everytime ;)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/apple2_zps7f2cda5c.jpg.html)
See ya.
Actually no...why do so called Windoze fanbois always feel the need to deride Apple users but we hardly if ever see the reverse?
OK, feel free to say whatever you want if you feel the need to, I was trying to appease Gordon but anyone can have the last word.
Trumpton_Rioter
25-08-2013, 07:11
OK, feel free to say whatever you want if you feel the need to, I was trying to appease Gordon but anyone can have the last word.
if you just want general browsing duties then xubuntu apparently runs well on older laptops - I will be installing it on mine soon
walpurgis
25-08-2013, 08:59
if you just want general browsing duties then xubuntu apparently runs well on older laptops - I will be installing it on mine soon
I've also got an older laptop with XP on and I've got a CD with Wary Puppy Linux on, I'm thinking of giving that a go.
Puppy Linux is great Geoff, your old laptop should like it ;)
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