5.6MHz DSD!! - Korg MR-2000S

[WOStantonCS100]

Even an analog diehard like me is very excited about this one. The only hurtle for me (if it lives up to it's billing) is that I'm still not into files on a hard drive (platter of SSD). But, 5.6MHz DSD!!! :eek: I have to admit, I've got to hear that. :) Apparently, Eric Johnson (another analog diehard and all around inspired and inspiring musician) fully signed off on this one.

http://www.korg.com/uploads/Images/FRONT_634625012243250000.png

[kininigin]

What the hell is it and what does it do? :lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

What the hell is it and what does it do? :lol:
It's a hard disk drive recorder with 80Gb HDD that records stereo at twice the quality of a DSD SACD, so better than outstanding :) That is just for starters :eyebrows:

Hope that helps ;)

By the way, that is one f*ck of a bud :rfl: Avy...

[kininigin]

It's a hard disk drive recorder with 80Gb HDD that records stereo at twice the quality of a DSD SACD, so better than outstanding :) That is just for starters :eyebrows:

Hope that helps ;)

By the way, that is one f*ck of a bud :rfl: Avy...

Ahh right i see,very fancy bit of kit then! Bet it's not cheap!

If someone put a bud that big in front of me,that's exactly the expression i'd have :D

[Reid Malenfant]

Ahh right i see,very fancy bit of kit then! Bet it's not cheap!
From looking at the specs it's not too bad money wise, for what it does & can do... Just think about the ultimate PC streamer as it looks like it has a USB port...

Double the quality of an SACD disc, it records & plays back just about everything & all for about £1300 :)

To me that certainly aint bad value :scratch:

[kininigin]

im not in the market for anything like this,but would be interested in how it performs.£1300 is cheaper than i'd thought it be.

[nat8808]

I hate to sound like a know-all but this Korg is almost 3 years old!

http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/audio_korg_mrs_bit/

Also it is not as impressive as it might seem as this is 1-bit format conversion so in terms of data throughput it is only a tad faster than 24/192 (multiply the 192KHz by 24bits to get an equivalent speed to having to process 1 bit at a time = 4.6MHz) and much slower than 24/384..

DSD/DXD is really just a completely different format to PCM and so is represented with different numbers, that's all (if it's the speed that seems amazing). It's the price that is good though it seems (not having looked into it).

In terms of sound, the review I linked to above says:


“Difference” is almost too strong of a word to describe the extremely subtle change between the MR-2000S at 5.6MHz/1-bit and the console's stereo bus [Pro Tools running at 24/96]. The console output “might” have a very minimal and better sub-bass, but the 1-bit was nicer in the top.

Differences become subtle once you reach a certain point I think and implementation is the more important aspect (design of circuits, power supplies etc etc).

[WOStantonCS100]

Yup. I read that same review as well as many interviews with Ed Meitner (EMM Labs) concerning DSD in general and the differences between it and PCM (which are not insignificant or minor IMHO); specifically when he starts talking about the zero crossing, ringing, etc. Depending on who you are and what mind frame you're in, it can be very interesting or very boring. Nevertheless, I'm still sold on DSD over PCM and considering the price it's going for now, it's been of considerable interest.

However, there always seems to be a stumbling block with high quality digital available to the prosumers (audiophile folk) sans a computer. So far, I'm not aware of any firmware update that allows this to play files from an external hard drive. :doh: Seriously!? (I am aware that firmware updates do allow for swapping in a bigger drive.) But, if they haven't (correct me if I'm wrong) or aren't going to include that functionality, this unit goes from considerable interest to pretty much dead to me. :( It would seem the Tascam DV-RA1000HD still remains a more practical unit, albeit without a 5.6 MHz option. If they could mash up both units, they'd have something. So near. So far. I'm keeping my ear to the ground; but, for now, I'll stick with analog tape.

[dave2010]

Isn't the problem with this that compatibility with other kit will be a big problem? There's probably no technical reason why DSD data couldn't be stored as data and exchanged between different systems, but it seems to me that some large oranisations with a vested interest may not want this to happen. There is presumably a very slight loss of quality in converting DSD to PCM as a viable means for data exchange.

Is it the case that DSD -> PCM gives better results than direct recording to PCM? Perhaps it depends on the kit used. The equipment shown may nevertheless be very good as a way of generating high quality PCM recordings.

I gather that PCM is easier for editing too. See http://audaud.com/2012/04/emis-new-sacd-remasters/

I feel that hoping that DSD is going to be a viable way to exchange recordings between different systems/devices without converting to PCM is not a great strategy right now. If someone were to develop a software player for DSD things might change though. Would that violate laws such as the DMCA?

[Vincent Kars]

There is a simple https://www.hdtracks.com/files/DSD_to_LPCM.pdf and a not so simple http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Lib/SACD.pdf article on DSD.

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Pictures/KB/DSD2.jpg

Obvious right after 20k the quantization noise of DSD rises and drowns all the musical energy above this point.
This is what I call the DSD paradox, the band width is enormous but so is the noise!

DSD has nothing to do with violating the law.
Only the SACD is a patented format, you need to pay a license to use it.

DACs with native mode DSD support are rare. There a 3 of them
http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-list

[nat8808]

DACs with native mode DSD support are rare. There a 3 of them
http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-list

Plenty of chips support it though don't they?

[dave2010]

DSD has nothing to do with violating the law.
Only the SACD is a patented format, you need to pay a license to use it.

DACs with native mode DSD support are rare. There a 3 of them
http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-listI don't know the details, but sometimes reverse engineering kit and systems (e.g. SACD) could violate some of those rather over the top laws, like DMCA.

[Stratmangler]

If someone were to develop a software player for DSD things might change though

There's a DSD plugin for Foobar. It can play SACD ISO files :eyebrows:

[dave2010]

There is a simple https://www.hdtracks.com/files/DSD_to_LPCM.pdf and a not so simple http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Lib/SACD.pdf article on DSD.

DACs with native mode DSD support are rare. There a 3 of them
http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-list
Is it now the case that more people in the recording industry are swinging away from DSD, for the reasons suggested by the authors of the second paper (Lipshitz and Vanderkoy, 2001) or is it still thought of as being the best way to handle some recording and playback issues? Even if flawed it may still be the best we can do right now. i don't know - just throwing this out for comments.

[cycler2]

For what it's worth, I have used the Korg to archive a couple of my LPs. I converted the LPs to a 24/96 WAV file and they sound very good indeed on my computer audio playback system. I found the user interface a bit fiddly, but certainly manageable even for an amateur like me.