View Full Version : The Paul Hynes regulator modules have landed, chez-Marco!
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3323/marcosdeck.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/marcosdeck.jpg/)
I went yesterday to Anthony's to have these fitted... The combination of different parts of the circuitry now being individually regulated, powered by the massive beast that is the SR7-EHD PSU, is quite simply STUNNING. List of parts added, as follows:
TDR21 dual 21-volt regulator module £160.
S1709v4LN regulator module £36.
Z1705LN regulator module £36. All available from: http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/
Could this be one of the biggest upgrades I've heard yet for the Techy?
Find out later, with a full review! ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
30-03-2012, 08:42
:stalks: oh FFS were is my wallet.
prestonchipfryer
30-03-2012, 11:54
Very neat Marco. Looking forward to your thoughts.
John :)
Cheers, guys. I was out all day yesterday at Geoff's T/T bake-off in Cheshire, so haven't had a chance yet to do a proper write-up on the reg mods. I'll do that later today.
Meanwhile, here are some pics, taken when I was at Anthony's place, having the regulator boards fitted, showing his superb system and also my new Ortofon ST80SE SUT (shown on top of one of Anthony's Soul Mate preamps):
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8340/s4010253.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/s4010253.jpg/)
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7437/s4010252.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/s4010252.jpg/)
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4816/s4010251.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/s4010251.jpg/)
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8889/s4010254.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/s4010254.jpg/)
:cool:
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
31-03-2012, 11:25
Cheers, guys. I was out all day yesterday at Geoff's T/T bake-off in Cheshire, so haven't had a chance yet to do a proper write-up on the reg mods. I'll do that later today.
Meanwhile, here are some pics, taken when I was at Anthony's place, having the regulator boards fitted, showing his superb system and also my new Ortofon ST80SE SUT (shown on top of one of Anthony's Soul Mate preamps):
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8340/s4010253.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/s4010253.jpg/)
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7437/s4010252.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/s4010252.jpg/)
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4816/s4010251.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/s4010251.jpg/)
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8889/s4010254.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/s4010254.jpg/)
:cool:
Marco.
Luverly, :thumbsup:
Stratmangler
31-03-2012, 11:29
Have they found oil in a living room in South Wales? :eyebrows:
Soz, don't follow.... :scratch:
Marco.
Stratmangler
31-03-2012, 11:34
Couple of oil rigs either side of the equipment rack ;)
Ah, right... Lol.
They're actually (if you didn't know already) old Atacama speaker stands, which I used to use with my Spendor SP100s. They support Anthony's super-sexy Soul monoblocks perfectly! :)
You'd love the sound of that system... ;)
Marco.
very nice indeed marco;)
jon
RobbieGong
31-03-2012, 14:00
Wow, Seriously awesome looking set, can only imagine how good this thing can sound :stalks:
anthonyTD
31-03-2012, 19:41
hi All,
It was an interesting day, before I pulled the deck apart both Marco and myself had a good listen to the techy in my system, once we felt we had given ourselves enough time to get accustomed to the sonic signature it was time to get to work.
Both Paul and myself agreed a while back that we thought there would be merit in individually regulating certain parts of the techys motor board and control circuitry, Paul had already developed an outboard power supply that was a class act, so, I knew that he would have studied the schematics of the 1210 and worked out what was needed, and how to implement it.
Well, once the mods had been carried out and everything doubled checked, we set about re-installing it in the system and got down to some serious listening, it didn’t take long for us to both realize that there was indeed some serious improvements in the timing, and bass etc, and as things warmed up things got even better in the soundstage and top end frequencies, needless to say we both felt that the mods had taken the 1210 to another level in performance, Marco even stated that he felt this mod had had a bigger impact on the Sonics than some of the more major upgrades he had done of late.
Either way, after witnessing the before and after performance in my own system I am convinced that there is serious merits and performance to be had by carrying out these latest mods to the 1210.
Anthony,TD...
Nice one. Lovely curtains, too! :)
anthonyTD
31-03-2012, 22:21
Nice one. Lovely curtains, too! :)
Cheers Alex,
At least they they go with the room decor, unlike the rug :lol: i cringe everytime i see it in picks, it always looks more freaky than it does in the flesh, its only in there as Rebecca wont have it anywhere else :lol:
A...
Seems like some nice stuff there. Is it much work fitting these regulator modules?
Nice installation, Anthony. I am glad that Marco now has these regulators installed as our decks tend to track each other as we listen to and discover new things. I too found the internal triple-stage regs made a big difference to rhythm, attack and sheer dynamic swing and your listening findings mirror mine.
I shall shortly be ordering an SR7-27 from Paul as an upgrade from my SR5.
Is it much work fitting these regulator modules?
You need to be confident in removing the PCB and cutting some tracks, as well as de-soldering some components and soldering new power lines in. If you are an experienced circuit builder you'll have no problems. Otherwise, you'd be best to recruit the services of an electronics engineer for the rework.
You need to be confident in removing the PCB and cutting some tracks, as well as de-soldering some components and soldering new power lines in. If you are an experienced circuit builder you'll have no problems. Otherwise, you'd be best to recruit the services of an electronics engineer for the rework.
Thanks, Martin. Guess in my case I would get some electronics engineer for this. :)
Ok, chaps, just a few words about the improvements that the regulator mods have made...
I wrote before in S.O.G (on a thread which is now a sticky) about the differences that upgrading made going from the Paul Hynes SR5-21, to the utterly superb SR7-21EHD. Well, it turns out that what I was hearing then, with the SR7, was only scratching the surface!! :eek:
Since fitting the individual regulator modules to my T/T, it's as if I'd previously only been hearing the effect of half of the SR7, with the other half remaining 'dormant' (or at least not fully utilised), waiting to be 'woken up', when partnered by the regulator modules... Perhaps Paul would confirm if that observation has any basis in fact?
My reason for feeling that way? Well, quite frankly, the sonic improvement gained by adding the regulator modules was so HUGE that it seemed almost impossible to believe that they alone were responsible for the effect I was hearing!!
Sonic gains?
Try, massively improved bass response, which is conveyed now in a sense that is not only palpably more 'fleshed out', weighty and extended, but rhythmically adroit, utterly controlled, and tuneful in the most musically addictive way imaginable. The Techy has always timed like a bastard, but now it combines this with serious 'soul', in a way that James Brown would be proud of, and underpinned by physically visceral low-frequencies, which appear to emanate from deep down within the bowels of the earth!! :wow:
One of the (justified) criticisms of direct-drive T/Ts is that they can sometimes sound a little clinical and 'matter of fact', lacking grunt in the lower frequencies, compared with the best idler-driven decks, such as Garrards and the top Lencos, in suitably massive plinths. Indeed, that is why people are largely attracted to those turntables, as they underpin music with serious gravitas and authority, often making an SL-1200 (or even an SP10) sound somewhat 'anaemic', in comparison.
Well not now!!! :nono:
The Techy is at last able to compete, in that respect, with the 'big boy' idler-drives, and not only that, outgun them (as usual) in areas such as speed stability, vanishingly low coloration, and therefore greater overall accuracy. However, it's not only in the bass that the combination of the SR7EHD and regulator modules excel in fundamentally improving; the use of this combination also results in a (subjectively) significantly lowered noise-floor, cleaning up the sound in the process, and allowing the midrange and high frequencies free reign to 'swell' and develop dynamically and harmonically like never before, when my turntable was in a lesser state of modification.
Make no mistake: fitting this PSU combination opens the window to such an extent that the tiniest of tiny nuances in the music, previously hidden in the mix, become spot-lit for inspection - but in a manner which is entirely unforced and natural, such is the way that the combination of the SR7EHD/reg modules allow my SL-1210 to effortlessly excavate the most demanding and complex material, whilst connecting me emotionally with recorded musical performances in the most convincing, and at times spine-tingling, way conceivable.
Each time I upgrade this turntable, it never ceases to amaze me just how much latent sonic potential exists waiting to be untapped, and these latest modifications simply serve to prove the point further and confirm just how good the motor unit is that Panasonic built all those years ago!
Does vinyl replay get much better than this? I honestly don't know...
What I do know is that music on vinyl has never sounded as good as this, to my ears, and that the Paul Hynes SR7EHD and regulator modules have been significantly responsible for that, combining together to quite incredible sonic effect. They're not cheap, but for those serious about turning their SL-1200/1210s into genuine 'high-end' turntables, able to compete with the very best, I'd suggest that the use of this PSU combination is near mandatory.
I can't pay it any greater compliment than that.
Marco.
Sounds like a must-have upgrade, glad you are enjoing it so much Marco. I have already decided on it :)
Btw, what is the bottom left PCB for?
Hi Maks,
It's for disabling the strobe light (without removing it completely) - it's the last of the KAB mods I'd originally had carried out to the turntable :)
I think you'll be delighted with the effect of the regulator boards. Have you got, or are you getting, an SR7EHD to partner them?
Marco.
Oh, I see now. At first I thought it was part of regulators upgrade, but Paul didn't recognized it when I asked him about it :)
At the moment there are no founds left for such an upgrade as SR7EHD, as I have bought SR5 less than a year ago and I still didn't give it enough time for fully evaluated its superbness :)
I shall wait for next SR PS from Paul, I'm sure he wont stop here with SR7 :cool:
My order for an SR7EHD-27 is in with Paul ;)
I wonder how it will sound against the SR5-27, given that I have all the internal regs installed? My experience of PSUs is that you can never have enough 'grunt'.
Martin, have you opted for an XL version of SR7?
My order for an SR7EHD-27 is in with Paul ;)
My experience of PSUs is that you can never have enough 'grunt'.
My guess is having such a huge PSU acts as the foundation for getting the best out of the reg's
I am sure like Marco upgrade this will be another step-up in performance:cool:
Martin, have you opted for an XL version of SR7?
If by XL version you mean Clearsilver internal wiring, then yes. I already have a Clearsilver flying lead with 4-pin XLR connector. If you mean the different connector, then I prefer to keep with the 4-pin XLR standard.
My guess is having such a huge PSU acts as the foundation for getting the best out of the reg's
Indeed, John, as I have all the internal regs done already the SR7 will be the final piece of the PSU upgrade for me.
Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2012, 19:57
If by XL version you mean Clearsilver internal wiring, then yes. I already have a Clearsilver flying lead with 4-pin XLR connector. If you mean the different connector, then I prefer to keep with the 4-pin XLR standard.
Martin,
The XL version contains such goodies as :-
"I also make an XL version of the SR7EHD power supply and this uses Teflon boards for the regulator circuitry with rolled copper foils (not electro-deposited copper), Vishay bulk foil resistors and Silmic II capacitors. This level of build quality does start getting expensive, especially with one off orders for the Teflon boards."
The cost is about £1.4K
Hope this helps
Andy
Reid Malenfant
04-04-2012, 20:05
"I also make an XL version of the SR7EHD power supply and this uses Teflon boards for the regulator circuitry with rolled copper foils (not electro-deposited copper), Vishay bulk foil resistors and Silmic II capacitors. This level of build quality does start getting expensive, especially with one off orders for the Teflon boards."
The cost is about £1.4K
Hope this helps
Andy
Andy, this sounds kind of excessive seeing as there will be some very high quality regulators following the PSU itself inside the Techie :) Ok, I may be proven wrong, but with two stages of regulation & I'm assuming the same VA of transformer there isn't or shouldn't be the need to go nuts as there would be with just the PSU itself & no regulators following it.
Though if you want the last word in performance then I guess it's probably worth that extra outlay, though whether you'll hear the difference with another regulator (or more) following it I would draw into question...
That is for you to decide :cool:
Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2012, 21:08
Mark,
No worries mate! I'm happy to pay for what I'm getting!! I'll just have to see what performance the PSU gives me.
Andy
Andy - no, I can't justify that outlay. In any case, this is not for audio amplification where the last word in noise performance could be significant. I think the SR7EHD will be sufficient and the rest of my money is better directed at Tellurium Q cables where I am having very positive results recently.
Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2012, 21:56
I'm thinking of getting the P10 at some point this year! And maybe Tellurium graphite balanced interconnects! We'll have to see.
I'm thinking of getting the P10 at some point this year!
You could not make a better investment in sound, Andy. If there's anything you need to know about it before you decide, just ask.
Wakefield Turntables
05-04-2012, 09:26
MMMMmmmm I have to get my hands on one 1st! My local HiFi dealer is pretty good at getting most things but this could be difficult. :(
Speak to Kevin at Signature Audio Systems. He may be able to loan you one, or at least a P5 to try out?
Wakefield Turntables
05-04-2012, 10:33
Thanks :thumbsup:
Andy, this sounds kind of excessive seeing as there will be some very high quality regulators following the PSU itself inside the Techie :) Ok, I may be proven wrong, but with two stages of regulation & I'm assuming the same VA of transformer there isn't or shouldn't be the need to go nuts as there would be with just the PSU itself & no regulators following it.
Though if you want the last word in performance then I guess it's probably worth that extra outlay, though whether you'll hear the difference with another regulator (or more) following it I would draw into question...
That is for you to decide :cool:
It's known as boys and toys M8!:)
Paul Hynes
06-04-2012, 21:39
Marco has asked me for an explanation why all these regulators inside the SL1200 affect the sound quality of the deck so much and how their use relates to the SR7EHD power supply performance. I’m not sure how this will read as I am just enjoying a rather nice bottle of Bordeaux, but I will check and, if necessary, edit it tomorrow (probably not until the afternoon as I am on holiday and I am going to finish the bottle).
Firstly, the SR7EHD regulator and the internal regulators have a very low noise error amplifier (0.5 nanovolts root Hz with a 1 Hz noise corner), very wide operating bandwidth (>200 MHz), fast transient response/settling time (<100 nanoseconds),as well as excellent supply line rejection over a wide frequency range (>80 dB DC to 80 KHz and around 60 dB at 1 MHz). For all these reasons, they work very well as an external power supply for the SL1200 and as internal regulators feeding the motor board. They provide a very quiet, clean feed to the motor control board inside the deck.
There is a downside with having the only system regulator in the remote power supply, as the cable connecting it to the motor board reduces it’s ability to damp out voltage fluctuations on the motor board that are caused by load current changes around the various sections of the motor control circuit. However combine this high performance, quiet, remote power supply with internal regulation to each individual stage close to the load and the downside is no longer there. This is where Marco has correctly concluded from his listening tests that the SR7 external power supply is only part of the equation for optimising the whole power supply, with each part playing a significant roll in the overall performance. I have been using this power distribution technique since the 1980’s with excellent results on a wide variety of equipment.
As there is significant impedance in any current path, within the supply distribution wires and tracks, there will always be some voltage drop when current moves around the supply distribution paths. Even the ground point will not have zero impedance. As none of the control integrated circuits will have infinite supply line rejection these voltage changes will bleed into the control signals, mix with them, and reduce the accuracy of the control signals. This situation is likely to get worse as the signal currents increase in frequency, as the supply line rejection of signal processing circuitry gets worse with increasing frequency. The more circuits that are on a common supply, the more there is scope for interaction between all the circuit sections.
Providing separate high performance, wide bandwidth regulators, for each stage in the motor control circuitry reduces these voltage interactions considerably. This allows more accurate signal processing by the control circuitry. The regulators have to have an operating bandwidth that significantly exceeds the signal circuitry operating frequency for the best result so don’t expect to achieve high performance regulation from an LM317, when the signal circuits are processing up to around 4 MHz, as the LM317 has stopped regulating at this frequency!
Another nice benefit of the regulator cascade is that the supply line interference rejection increases dramatically to a level that reduces the effects of mains variations on sound quality significantly. This means you can enjoy listening to music 24/7 instead of approx 12/7. Because of this I wonder if there is any point in using a high performance mains cable with such a high level of regulation? (Sorry David, I couldn’t resist that one, you need to keep an open mind). Actually there is good reason to use a high quality mains cable, as, the more masking distortions you remove from a system, the easier it is to hear the remaining ones when they are removed.
Regards
Paul
anthonyTD
07-04-2012, 10:21
On the subject of "off the shelf" regulators,
It’s a very interesting one,
I remember spending a day once comparing the performance of a few of the common ones found in many pieces of Hi Fi kit, and as Paul has already explained the results were in many cases laughable when you compare noise rejection and impedances with frequency etc, therefore I totally agree with Paul’s findings and explanation, I used very similar regulator topology in both my soul-mate preamp and soul power amplifiers so I am well aware of the importance of designing and using the best power supplies you can for a specific application, Therefore I cannot emphasize enough how important power supplies are, and where raw power supplies are concerned i.e.; mains transformers to start the chain etc,there really isn’t any theoretical limit to improvement where size is concerned, just the law of diminishing returns.
Anthony,TD...
was something I've been wanting for a long time. I have no background in electronics but I'm intrigued by the science, unfortunately I've had difficulty tracking down answers to questions that pop into my mind.
Paul's answer nicely covered many of the questions I had and did so in a way that I could understand.
Thank you.
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