Upgrading my cartridge on a SL-1210

[Dinodale]

Hi all,

I have done some modding on my techie and the sound quality has realy improved a lot since the beginning.

Until now I have used an AT120e which have been great. Some days ago I became the happy owner of a Sumiko headshell:eyebrows:

I think it could be fun to try a new and better cartridge who will fit the mods I have been doing.
Now I would like to hear if you have any proposals and if any of you had experience with a DL-110, Goldring 2500 and Benz Micro on a standard rewiret tonearm?

Cheers

Claus

[Lee Henley]

Have a look at a thread I strated a while back, may be of some use

Lee

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16438

[Dinodale]

Hi Lee,

Thx a lot for the link. No doubt he had tested a lot of different cartridges but still it is only one mans experience plus it doesn't seem he had been using a Techie for his tests.
Here at AOS there are lot of people who had tried a lot of cartridges plus might know what could be great with my current level of modding.

Have you tried any of the tree cartridges?

[costerdock]

I have a very similar setup to yours and I'm very happy with the Ortofon KAB ProS30 - not sure if others have tried it.

[Dinodale]

Hi Chris,

Thx, for the tip but I would like to use my new Sumiko headshell with the cartridge i am going to buy.

[RobbieGong]

Hi Claus, Can recommend the Ortofon 2M Black without hesitation. I have very similar set up to you , Stock arm, KAB fluid damper, Isonoe feet, Mike New bearing. The 2M Black in my set up is simply gorgeous. Untold amounts of detail retrieval from the grooves, texture, timbre and 3D lifelike portrayal of instruments etc BUT you must set it up with care and attention. The superb Shibata stylus is very vta /sra sensitive which is why I absolutely love the Techie on the fly vta cause you can literally slowly and gently turn in around the 1 mark and you will suddenly hear where it sounds so right. Takes time but so worth it. I will not hesitate to get a replacement stylus for mine when due. I paid £460 but i have seen some lucky so and so's pick one up on day 'Bay for a few occasions with very low hours for £260 ish - a bargain ! Trust me you wont be dissapointed. The best MM IMO - It thinks it's a good MC - and sounds like one and better than some :)

[Stacker45]

Ortofon 2M Black

[prestonchipfryer]

Hi Claus, Can recommend the Ortofon 2M Black without hesitation. I have very similar set up to you , Stock arm, KAB fluid damper, Isonoe feet, Mike New bearing. The 2M Black in my set up is simply gorgeous. Untold amounts of detail retrieval from the grooves, texture, timbre and 3D lifelike portrayal of instruments etc BUT you must set it up with care and attention. The superb Shibata stylus is very vta /sra sensitive which is why I absolutely love the Techie on the fly vta cause you can literally slowly and gently turn in around the 1 mark and you will suddenly hear where it sounds so right. Takes time but so worth it. I will not hesitate to get a replacement stylus for mine when due. I paid £460 but i have seen some lucky so and so's pick one up on day 'Bay for a few occasions with very low hours for £260 ish - a bargain ! Trust me you wont be dissapointed. The best MM IMO - It thinks it's a good MC - and sounds like one and better than some :)


Got to agree with you. 2M Black VTA - time-consuming to set but when 'right' absolutely gorgeous.

:)

[Dinodale]

Wow it seems I have to look after a Ortofon 2M Black -well I might have to get some money first:eyebrows:
I am still open for other proposals but I think we might have found a winner;)

Thanks a lot to all of you who had helped:)

[Disles1]

Should you wish to try a MC cartridge, then I can recommend the Dynavector 20XL. You'll need a SUT (I made mine using CineMag transformers) but I think you'll like the results.

[Dinodale]

Thx for your input Ken. Great with some help from you guys;)

I was just thinking if the Ortofon 2M Black would be a little "overkill" together with a rewiret standard tonearm?

How good is 2M Blue?

[RobbieGong]

Hi Claus, At the end of the day you can think and think and ponder until you actually dont make a move or do anything if you know what I mean. As you know my Techie is very much modded with the same upgrades as yours. I have had the 2M blue, it was good and very enjoyable, so much so that my thinking was 'gosh, the Black then must be something special as the flagship if the blue sounds this good' and again I can tell you it cetainly is. Overkill - NO ! It sounds wonderful in the stock arm with the KAB damper - no issues whatsoever in my experience. You have an abundance of choice but at some point you will have to take a punt like we all have. I went for the Black cause I wanted the best and believe that is exactly what I got - Basically a highly regarded cart that punches well above it's weight and presents the music in a wonderful, detailed and musical way. (I'm not surprised the Black is highly rated and has won awards and accolades) If you are patient you can pick one up with low hours from the 'bay for £250.00 ish which I've seen more than once, then you will be laughing big time AND if you dont like it (which I dont envisage) you will get your money back no trouble as a lot of folk want one but maybe dont have the £460 I paid at hand. AGAIN, She just needs setting up with care and time but it's worth it :) Denon also do a lot of carts you might like and recommended here - DL103's, DL110, DL160 also the Nagoatas ie: the MP110 all loved and much cheaper than the 2M Black -Take time to read up on them, you will likely be drawn to one just like I was with the Black. Afterwhich it's over to you ie: JUST TAKE A PUNT ! :)

[Dinodale]

Haha if you ever need a job I am sure you could be a salesman for Ortofon - you just sold me the Black:lol:

[RobbieGong]

Haha if you ever need a job I am sure you could be a salesman for Ortofon - you just sold me the Black:lol:

:lol: You'd never guess but I love this cart :eyebrows:. Can't remember what music you like but I've thrown reggae, R&B, Soul, Rupert Holmes etc at it and she's lovely. Horn sections, strings, percussion, keyboards, organs etc really shine and sound so 3D / life like WHEN YOU SET HER UP RIGHT !! which i cant get enough of :D

[Disles1]

I agree with RobbieGong that any of the cartridges mentioned would not be overkill. The Technics SL1200 - stock and better still in modded form - will do justice to any cartridge that fits its resonance requirements (i.e., weight, compliance).

Of course, a person's budget and sound reproduction likes are foremost in the equation.

[RobbieGong]

I agree with RobbieGong that any of the cartridges mentioned would not be overkill. The Technics SL1200 - stock and better still in modded form - will do justice to any cartridge that fits its resonance requirements (i.e., weight, compliance).

Of course, a person's budget and sound reproduction likes are foremost in the equation.

Exactly Ken. For instance the Denon 103 needs a heavy arm where it really shines and will sound great - The stock Techie arm is pretty light.

[Dinodale]

2M Black is now ordered:eyebrows:

Found a new one on "The Bay" for 375 $. I couldn't let that slip out of my hands;)

Now I just have to wait for it to arrived ....sigh... !!!!

Do you have any advises for optimum setup (tracking force etc.)?

[indus]

2M Black is now ordered:eyebrows:

Found a new one on "The Bay" for 375 $. I couldn't let that slip out of my hands;)

Now I just have to wait for it to arrived ....sigh... !!!!

Do you have any advises for optimum setup (tracking force etc.)?



Well done!:)

I'm very jealous, I'd love to hear a black. But I have other mods to do first

[Dinodale]

Hi David,

If you ever comes to Denmark you are welcome to hear it ;)

I can tell you it is going to be some long days until it arrives.

You too are going to have some exciting days in front of you with all your new stuff:eyebrows:

[RobbieGong]

2M Black is now ordered:eyebrows:

Found a new one on "The Bay" for 375 $. I couldn't let that slip out of my hands;)

Now I just have to wait for it to arrived ....sigh... !!!!

Do you have any advises for optimum setup (tracking force etc.)?

Hi Claus, congrats - Welcome to the 'best mm out there club' :lol: You wont regret it. I too have the stock arm with KAB fluid damper and she loves it. She also loves the stock headshell which is actually very good and nice and light which suits this cart. Tracking force is recommended at only 1.5 gm, I have mine at a shade over on the Techie dial, barely 1.6gm. For optimum set up just take your time and do in the usual way as outlined in the Technics manual. Balance the arm, set your desired tracking force 1.5gm or there abouts - set tracking force as per most manufacturers advise which is same as tracking force in this case 1.5.
Then loosen the cart in the headshell just a little and get about using the Stevenson protrator from here- http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml. You'll need to register but this takes less than a minute. I did manage to get a good sound with the Baerwald protractor by setting the cart at an offset to follow arc. But after taking Marco's advise and using the Stevenson two point protractor I found it better, giving a more natural sound to the music. I manage to set at both the points with just a very very slight offset in the headshell. Finally and this is where the magic is make sure your sytem is nice and warm and that you've played a side or two of an album then whilst a tune is playing undo the vta adjust lock and start o ever so slowly turn the hight adjust up and down around the 1 mark. (I can just see through a small gap under the damper, I use a small torch to help me see). Keep listening whilst turning. It takes time so be patient but at some point you will hear where it just sounds so right. When it is right horns and strings etc will sound so life like and 3d, you will just know. I have a couple of vinyl albums of medium / average record thickness that I use to do this and once done I find that everything else also seems to sound right. Also make sure the stylus sits perfectly parallel to the record surface from the front of the cart. I use one of those tiny headshell spirit levels, you can twist the headshell a bit to get it nice and straight from the front if needs be. Dont be afraid to keep re-visiting vta if not happy. I've done it loads of times for various reasons but it's worth it. You will also find that you hate any warped records :lol: BTW - If you can get yourself one of those little plastic resonance caps. You screw this in the end of the balance weight where you would usually put the little chrome weight which you use if you need more weight - You wont need that but the little plastic cap is said to stop resonance that apparently happens there - You'll get one here less than $5.00 http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/m1200.htm - just scroll down the page on the right. Every little helps as they say :eyebrows:
All the best and enjoy - let us know how you get on, any probs just shout ! :)

[Dinodale]

Wow Robert, thx a lot for the warm welcome to the "club" and for all your info:)

I have already printed Stevenson protractor for my little baby:eyebrows:

Nice to know you have increased the tracking force a little higher. I have done exactly the same with my AT120e after I installed my fluid damper.

My plan is to attach the 2M Black to a Sumiko headshell. What I have read it should not be too heavy for the standard arm. The arm is KAB rewiret and damped with the little resonance-thing:)

When I have to find the the right VTA is it then ok to do it while I play a record. I mean if I might risk to damage the stylus or the record?:scratch:

Again thanks a lot for your help!

[RobbieGong]

Wow Robert, thx a lot for the warm welcome to the "club" and for all your info:)

I have already printed Stevenson protractor for my little baby:eyebrows:

Nice to know you have increased the tracking force a little higher. I have done exactly the same with my AT120e after I installed my fluid damper.

My plan is to attach the 2M Black to a Sumiko headshell. What I have read it should not be too heavy for the standard arm. The arm is KAB rewiret and damped with the little resonance-thing:)

When I have to find the the right VTA is it then ok to do it while I play a record. I mean if I might risk to damage the stylus or the record?:scratch:

Again thanks a lot for your help!

You are welcome Claus - Absolutely no problem at all turning the vta hight adjust whilst a tune is playing, it is one of the big advantages of the Technics arm and something I wish was on all turntables. Just turn very very slowly and smoothly one way or the other and try not to hit the back of the arm with your hand whilst doing it which i have done :eek:. Other than that you should be fine. See how you get on with the Sumiko although I know it is around 12g where the Technics is around 7ish grams - a lot lighter. I've had no problems with the stock headshell at all as the Black does not need a heavy headshell. :)

[Disles1]

Hello Claus, you might find that you need the additional counterweight (also available from KABUSA) since the Sumiko headshell is quite a bit heavier than the stock Technics. You just screw it into the end of the arm tube behind the regular counterweight.

When setting VTA on-the-fly (i..e, when a record is playing) I usually place one hand (fingers) on each side of the adjusting knob making sure my arms are clear of the tonearm. You don't want to bump the arm as that will give your stylus a nice ride across the record.

[Dinodale]

But do you all use the extra weight (Is it the Aux-weight you mean Ken?) together with the Sumiko? I am afraid this means I have to wait some more weeks before I am up and running :doh:

Actually Ken I had thought if I needed some extra weight but was not sure so big thanks to you!

[StanleyB]

In my DJ days we used a clamp like THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-gas-pipe-mini-repair-clamp-/251035625692?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Nails_Fixing_MJ&hash=item3a72e3a8dc) and added extra screws to increase its weight. I am not suggesting that you use it as a permanent solution, but it worked for us :).

[Dinodale]

Just ordered an Aux-weight from UK so hopefully it will arrive soon:)

[Dinodale]

My little baby arrived today.
I am listen to her while I'm writing this and I already now without any "fineadjustments" I can tell she is playing like a dream.

Thanks for your great advise - you hit the spot:eyebrows: