View Full Version : LP12 needs looking at
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 12:10
I need my LP12 looked at again :-(
My suspicions confirmed last night as we compared vinyl to CD, Ry Cooder's Crossroad. The vinyl was muffled, lacked detail and bass. Previosuly I'd been catching up on recent vinyl purchases
This is after a service and new to me Dynavector cartridge from Infidelity
A lot of ground was covered in my previous post about a channel missing from the LP12. Advice on searching please !
I want to be able to navigate better around AoS as I cannot find my original
Is it this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16467) Mike?
Or maybe it was this thread. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13020)
When you say the cartridge is 'new to you' does that mean it is second hand? If it is, are you absolutely sure it isn't worn out?
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 14:13
Thanks
The second
How did you search on that please ?
Mike
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 14:16
When you say the cartridge is 'new to you' does that mean it is second hand? If it is, are you absolutely sure it isn't worn out?
It could be
Main problem was the one channel missing.
Initially said to be the cable in the Aro.
I suspect it was the Karma all along
10-15 years after last being seen to so I agreed to a service, before I had asked advice here - never again
I was told it sounded great at Infidelity....
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 14:17
Or maybe it was this thread. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13020)
2nd thoughts
No it wasn't that one either
The one where Dave at Radlett spoke sage advice, as well as others
Was it a thread you started, Mike, or someone else?
If it was one of yours, you've only started 21 threads of your own, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find...
Marco.
This one. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=289913#post289913)
Just click your profile and search 'threads started'.
I'm a bit lost - did you resolve the lost channel issue or did you just send it for a service. Whatever happened, what was the conclusion as to why one channel dropped out? By far the most likely reason for a channel to disappear is because of a poor contact - certainly wires do not spontaneously break for no reason; poor contacts can be re-made, cleaned and tightened up.
It's difficult to diagnose these issues at a distance as my experience tells me that the answer often lies in something that is inadvertently being left out of the description.
Are you sure that there is no issue with your phonostage?
EDIT: Ah, I see, by looking at your past posts, that you have a Nac82, Presumably you are sure it has the correct phono boards in it and they are properly plugged into the motherboard? I also see that the conclusion regarding loss of one channel was attributed to a faulty Karma; this surprises me very much. It is rare for a cartridge to become faulty in this manner (after so many years), unless it has received a blow or otherwise damaged.
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 16:39
Was it a thread you started, Mike, or someone else?
If it was one of yours, you've only started 21 threads of your own, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find...
Marco.
I looked but didn't find. Still learning the geography...
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 16:41
This one. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=289913#post289913)
Just click your profile and search 'threads started'.
That's it, and a way to find my way back. Thanks
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 17:11
That's it, and a way to find my way back. Thanks
I can only see Subscribed threads.
Didn't subscribe to threads for the first 4 :-(
Is there a way to list the others ?
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 17:14
When you say the cartridge is 'new to you' does that mean it is second hand? If it is, are you absolutely sure it isn't worn out?
Was told it was about half way through it's estimated life (forget the hours)
Most importantly I was told it sounded great
Here are all the threads you started: http://theartofsound.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1544260
Here are all your posts: http://theartofsound.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1544264
Most importantly I was told it sounded great
Did you not hear it at that time - presumably not?
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 17:25
Here are all the threads you started: http://theartofsound.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1544260
Here are all your posts: http://theartofsound.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1544264
>Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
Did you not hear it at that time - presumably not?
Didn't listen to it when collecting. Mr Trusting(stoopid maybe)
Didn't even clock it when at home, except when puzzled by Eric's 461 Ocean Boulevard
hifi_dave
25-03-2012, 17:26
I'm confused..:scratch:
What work did you have done to the turntable/arm/cartridge and have you plugged it in to the Naim exactly the way it came out ? Have you changed anything at all whilst the Linn had it's little holiday ?
Logically - the deck has just been serviced so it's not that.
CD sounds fine so it is not your speakers or amps
Which only leaves the phono-stage or the cartridge. The dealer says he had a listen before handing it over and it sounded good. I don't see the value for him in lying about that so the cart is more than likely okay too.
To be honest, I don't see how any resolution is likely to occur unless someone who is familiar with this equipment physically goes over to Mike's and has a listen and takes a look.
Unfortunately, Surrey is too far for me!
hifi_dave
25-03-2012, 17:42
With a bit of patience, I'm sure we can localise the problem and the offer is still there if he wants to visit me. Can't promise Linn dealer fairy dust though.
I'll pop some in the post Dave - keep an eye out for the pink glitter envelope.
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 17:47
I'm confused..:scratch:
What work did you have done to the turntable/arm/cartridge and have you plugged it in to the Naim exactly the way it came out ? Have you changed anything at all whilst the Linn had it's little holiday ?
Went in to be looked at as one channel had gone
As 10-15 years since last looked at I was recommended and agreed to a service.
Many upgrades suggested, coming to about £2000
Then I posted here - alarm bells rang - and I rang them to stop work
Decided to go for the minimum amount of work as many had suggested any and all of it was v.expensive
LP12 serviced.
Arm sent away as cable was suspect. (The place also mentioned here)
(Can't remember if changed or not, think it was no fault found )
Hum found when plugged in at Infidelity. I'd never heard that. Some investigation work on that
Karma found to be down one channel so agreed to a Dynavector that a customer traded in to Infidelity.
The LP12 previously had a home made mains *cable* not flex I fitted in the 80s. Swapped for some flex. Kimber powerkord still used to plug into the same female IEC
Only thing I changed was moving the PS Audio power cord from a right to a left socket and moving the Naim NAPSC well away from kit
Assumed it would sound wonderful, reinforced by Derek telling me to ring him to let him know how it sounded. Didn't ring as I was not sure what had happened.
Perhaps you should ring him - he's a nice chap.
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 18:03
He sounds ok on the phone for sure. Never been there when I called in
Couple of people on AoS don't get on with him though
Just thought - aren't the cards in the 82 specifically set up for a Karma ?
Would they be ok with a Dynavector DV20X
I think he works there part time.
It depends if you had K (for Troika and Karma) or S (for other MC cartridges) fitted in the first place - there isn't a lot of difference between them though (they are basically the same except for two component values which are different).
Reading back, are you saying the deck sounds OK except for one record?
MikeMusic
25-03-2012, 18:33
I think he works there part time.
It depends if you had K (for Troika and Karma) or S (for other MC cartridges) fitted in the first place - there isn't a lot of difference between them though (they are basically the same except for two component values which are different).
Reading back, are you saying the deck sounds OK except for one record?
So likely something else
461 sounded bad
New records to me I had no experience of
On Friday I listened to a Rainer and Das Combo CD at work and thought it sounded very good. Played the LP at home and thought it not so good
Compared the first track of Crossroads LP - CD and realised as is not well
Initially I thought it was a change. I now assume that any LP - CD test I do will favour the CD
hifi_dave
25-03-2012, 18:51
If nothing majpr has been changed, just a power cord, the turntable should sound as good as or better than the CD.
Set up and service isn't going to make a massive difference to the sound but a duff cartridge will.
Bit confused but i'd try and borrow a cart.
MikeMusic
26-03-2012, 09:14
I think he works there part time.
It depends if you had K (for Troika and Karma) or S (for other MC cartridges) fitted in the first place - there isn't a lot of difference between them though (they are basically the same except for two component values which are different).
Reading back, are you saying the deck sounds OK except for one record?
Thanks
I'm going to compare some more LPs to CDs
then uo to Dave I think
MikeMusic
26-03-2012, 09:14
Bit confused but i'd try and borrow a cart.
Me too
I have the old Karma, with only 1 channel.
Don't feel confident changing cart's though
I would be tempted to send the cartridge to Dominic Harper of Northwest Analogue - he will be able to confirm if it is dead in one channel and may be able to fix it.
MikeMusic
26-03-2012, 10:02
I was going to get the Karma fixed or at least quoted on- thought I had more time to think about it !
:-)
I would be tempted to send the cartridge to Dominic Harper of Northwest Analogue - he will be able to confirm if it is dead in one channel and may be able to fix it.
+1. And he won't keep you waiting for 3 months, unlike 'Expert Stylus'!
Marco.
Audioman
27-03-2012, 08:30
Mike.
I am still unclear what your problem is ? I am assuming you are using the used Dynavector and disatisfied with the sound. My experience is it does sound darker after many hours use. It may have more miles on it than you are led to believe. The Linn set up would verge on the warm and 'musical' rather than the more analytical and precise sound. This would explain 461 ocean Boulivard sounding poor. It is a muddy recording especaily in a warmer and less detailed sounding system. It does sound great on my Gyro with AT cartridge. ( Brighter and more precise presentation).
My suggestion is to try one of the AT MC cartridges to give a better balanced sound. Also get the Dynavector checked out as well as your Linn cartridge. The Dynavector should sound very good. Perhaps you are tiring of the LP12 sound. I think you would be better in the long run selling and going for Mitchell, Notts Analogue, Funk or Avid ranges. Which model depending on your budget and taste. More cost effective than throwing more wonga at the LP12 IMHO.
Paul.
hifi_dave
27-03-2012, 09:20
I believe Mike is going to take some time out to visit me and then we can get to the bottom of what is wrong.
MikeMusic
28-03-2012, 20:25
Mike.
I am still unclear what your problem is ? I am assuming you are using the used Dynavector and disatisfied with the sound. My experience is it does sound darker after many hours use. It may have more miles on it than you are led to believe. The Linn set up would verge on the warm and 'musical' rather than the more analytical and precise sound. This would explain 461 ocean Boulivard sounding poor. It is a muddy recording especaily in a warmer and less detailed sounding system. It does sound great on my Gyro with AT cartridge. ( Brighter and more precise presentation).
My suggestion is to try one of the AT MC cartridges to give a better balanced sound. Also get the Dynavector checked out as well as your Linn cartridge. The Dynavector should sound very good. Perhaps you are tiring of the LP12 sound. I think you would be better in the long run selling and going for Mitchell, Notts Analogue, Funk or Avid ranges. Which model depending on your budget and taste. More cost effective than throwing more wonga at the LP12 IMHO.
Paul.
Paul
It sounds wrong
Take away the fault I had of the one channel going and it was better before it was serviced. LPs sounded better than CDs.
Now the CD is very much better
I'm taking it to Dave and have his opinion then
Audioman
28-03-2012, 21:57
Paul
It sounds wrong
Take away the fault I had of the one channel going and it was better before it was serviced. LPs sounded better than CDs.
Now the CD is very much better
I'm taking it to Dave and have his opinion then
Sounds like you paid them to get the set up wrong then. I'm sure Dave will sort it. Also moving it around probably doesn't help. Exactly why I don't like the LP12. Unless it's just right a Thorens 160 will sound as good for a lot less. Prefer decks you can set springs from above in situ. Most here seem to prefer unsprung decks. Not much to go wrong except sorting out good isolation.
MikeMusic
29-03-2012, 07:35
Took some believing to start with.
Valentyne Suite last night sounded so so on LP.
CD was back to wonderful
sq225917
10-04-2012, 10:34
Any progress Mike, how are things sounding?
MikeMusic
10-04-2012, 10:42
Seems fine thanks. Sighs of relief all round
David thought it was the Dynavector 'sound'
Can it really be that awful ?
Now I have the very odd HiCap - 82 issue to sort
- If you hadn't seen already. I can get one to work but not 2 HiCaps into the 82
Audioman
10-04-2012, 14:31
Seems fine thanks. Sighs of relief all round
David thought it was the Dynavector 'sound'
Can it really be that awful ?
Now I have the very odd HiCap - 82 issue to sort
- If you hadn't seen already. I can get one to work but not 2 HiCaps into the 82
No. Dynavector is a fine cartridge. So it's either a synergy problem or something is not right with the cartridge. You need to try a new example or at least one that is still known to perform well on another system. I suppose they are little dull up against an AT.
MikeMusic
10-04-2012, 14:43
Ah.
This effect was like a blanket over the speakers. Lack of top end, lack of detail, lack of bass
Great apart from that !
:-)
Audioman
10-04-2012, 15:11
Ah.
This effect was like a blanket over the speakers. Lack of top end, lack of detail, lack of bass
Great apart from that !
:-)
Well it's faulty or incorrect loading likely. Only way is try another cartridge and/or borrow a phono pre with loading adjustments.
sq225917
10-04-2012, 16:20
It should be fine with NAim standard loading values. circa 500 ohms +-20%
hifi_dave
10-04-2012, 20:12
Well it's faulty or incorrect loading likely. Only way is try another cartridge and/or borrow a phono pre with loading adjustments.
I swopped it for a Lyra Dorian and all was sweetness and light. The Dynavector was as dull as ditchwater and the Dorian is clean, clear and dynamic.
Mike has kept the Dorian on his Aro.
I did some slight 'tinkering' with the arm and now all is well.
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