View Full Version : Reffc System Pictures
Current System:
Front end:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5035.jpg
Gyro SE/SME309/Shelter5000
Garrard 401/SME3009/Sonus Bluegold
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5027.jpg
Mid rack = Consonance Mini Droplet (all 28Kg of it...there's nothing "mini" about it)
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5028.jpg
Lumley Reference St40 - completely rebuilt from ground up; new everything.
Partnering is is the Lumley PP40 pre.
Mighty Horning Agathon Ultimates:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5030.jpg
Rear view:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5031.jpg
Also on rack (bottom) is an EAR 834P Signature phono stage
stupinder
17-03-2012, 13:20
Nice pics!!!
wiicrackpot
17-03-2012, 14:41
Love everything about your system Paul, always nice to see another fellow 401 user onboard, 1st time i've ever seen the rear end of Agathon's, never knew they had kicking big bass units on the rear. :wow:
wii.
Thanks Wii.
They do bass very well! Twin 12 inch Beyma short throw units with high sensitivity. A lot of air can be moved!
alex_san78
17-03-2012, 15:53
Impressive system Paul! I'm with Andy - WOW!!!
Thanks Alexey.
Had the Agathons about 2 years now and couldn't imagine parting with them for anything else. I like scale and dynamics and these seem to fit the bill. Maybe tempted to try a good SS integrated with them soon as very regrettably may have to sell the Lumleys to raise funds for another project. I know I'm going to regret doing that!
Yes, really nice to see other 401 owners :D
Those are really really interesting speakers that I've been watching many times from web as have not had a change to see/hear them in person. One question thou related to those 12" bass drivers as have always had some concerns regarding the bass units that are not front mounted with other drivers. Naturally xo frequency has huge dependency for this but do you ever feel that there is some problems in that front?
Yes, really nice to see other 401 owners :D
Those are really really interesting speakers that I've been watching many times from web as have not had a change to see/hear them in person. One question thou related to those 12" bass drivers as have always had some concerns regarding the bass units that are not front mounted with other drivers. Naturally xo frequency has huge dependency for this but do you ever feel that there is some problems in that front?
Ah...to answer your question, the design considers this. Mr Tommy Horning who designs and builds these is a very clever chap. All drivers are time aligned almost perfectly. The rear bass speakers fire inwards (ie 180 degrees out of phase) into a complex folded horn arrangement. the entrances for the rear loading of the other drivers are carefully designed so that no nasty phase shifts occur. The low bass notes come from a large port beneath the speakers which are designed for corner placement.
As for crossovers, there's only one! A 6KHz unit for the treble. The beauty is that as the Lowther DX4 unit starts to roll off at around 200Hz, the Beyma units are designed to kick in and handle duty without appreciable roll-off between 20Hz and 200Hz. The presentation really is superbly seamless and the treble unit provides beautiful none fatiguing treble without being "in your face" seamlessly from 6KHz upwards. I've never heard anything like these either before I bought them or since. they remain my all time favourite full range loudspeakers, great with just about all musical genres.
You can read a very recent review of these loudspeakers here (http://hifipig.com/horning-agathon-ultimate-loudspeakers/)
Sounds good eventhou 200Hz is quite much higher what I expected. I hope that someday somewhere I can listen those those speakers myself :D
If you ever find yourself in deepest darkest Gloucestershire, you'd be most welcome to have a listen Mika. That invitation is extended to anyone from AOS who might be interested!
Thanks! Despite of the slim-to-none changes for this ever happening, I'll keep thta in mind ;)
jandl100
22-03-2012, 07:41
I've heard Paul's system in action several times.
Fantastic (and I mean best I've heard) sense of dynamic scale. Controlled air movement by the bucketload. Marco would love it!
And those large speakers disappear nicely.
A very very nice system. :thumbsup:
Lovely system, Paul! :respect:
I've heard Paul's system in action several times.
Fantastic (and I mean best I've heard) sense of dynamic scale. Controlled air movement by the bucketload. Marco would love it!
Sounds like I would, Jerry, as those are all traits I value very highly and (indeed am used to) from my own system. If I'm ever due down your way, Paul, I'll defo let you know and pop by for a listen-ette! :cool:
Marco.
I've heard Paul's system in action several times.
Fantastic (and I mean best I've heard) sense of dynamic scale. Controlled air movement by the bucketload. Marco would love it!
And those large speakers disappear nicely.
A very very nice system. :thumbsup:
Many thanks Jerry. Your system's none-too shabby either! My system is about to get some tweaks. I'm making up new IC's for everything and re-wiring the Garrard earthing and tonearm leads too. Reference Mercury or Venus IC's will be used throughout,and the Chord Odessey is about to be replaced with Talk3! Sounds backwards step, but it's not!
wiicrackpot
22-03-2012, 12:37
My system is about to get some tweaks. I'm making up new IC's for everything and re-wiring the Garrard earthing and tonearm leads too. Reference Mercury or Venus IC's will be used throughout,and the Chord Odessey is about to be replaced with Talk3! Sounds backwards step, but it's not!
Oh please stop Paul, every bit of your rig is something i'd love to hear and own,you're making me wanna take up your offer of a listen,
problem is i'm never down south very often, :doh: however, keep us posted. :cool:
wii.
Oh please stop Paul, every bit of your rig is something i'd love to hear and own,you're making me wanna take up your offer of a listen,
problem is i'm never down south very often, :doh: however, keep us posted. :cool:
wii.
:)
Dismantled the Garrard today. Did some re-wiring and replaced original tonearm leads with Reference Neptunes. Inspected and re-oiled main bearing and drive wheel bearings; made a new plinth front cover to prevent little fingers messing with the adjusters; re-assembled, re-set VTF and bias and added one of my prototype 800g Reference Orbiter stabilisers. Currently listening to JLH - "The Healer" at around live listen levels. It never sounded so good!
Re-vamped Garrard. Sounds fantastic...really pleased with the tweaks:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/Garrard.jpg
Reid Malenfant
22-03-2012, 19:28
Very nice indeed Paul :) As has been pointed out & I can only imagine those speakers of yours must be rather interesting :eyebrows:
After all what you have there is the equivalent of a pair of 18" bass drivers in reflex cabinets, I can't say I'm surprised that they'd sound pretty effortless & dynamic.
Keep up the good work & cheers for posting the pics :D
Many thanks Mark. Yes, they do indeed move air effortlessly and as they're short throw and very sensitive, even modest valve amps have little problem damping them properly. Lightning fast transients which with loud tympani or drum work can have the cat racing for the door in fear of its life...and I don't even have a cat! Exceptional imaging too. Audio Nirvana for me with the synergy achieved, but it's taken many years of box swapping and penny saving to put it together.
Dominic Harper
22-03-2012, 22:16
Hi Paul that is lovely looking 401. I love the speakers you are currently using, very nice set up indeed:)
Natalie
Hi Paul that is lovely looking 401. I love the speakers you are currently using, very nice set up indeed:)
Natalie
Thanks Dominic
I think it might have been you I sold the sme3009 FD200 fluid damping kit to a few years back!
Lumleys now sold :(
Replaced them with this:
http://www.audio-cinema.co.uk/ekmps/shops/audiocinemaltd/images/primare-i30-reference-dual-mono-fully-balanced-integrated-amplifier-2-x-100w-393-p[ekm]320x300[ekm].jpg
Primare i30 dual mono integrated. Seems to have plenty of wallop and is very neutral although I'd say it lacks the overall presence and transparency of the Lumleys.
wiicrackpot
07-04-2012, 03:14
Paul, getting rid of those Lumley's might come back to haunt you one day, if i had the readies they would've been mine in jig time. :(
wii.
Paul, getting rid of those Lumley's might come back to haunt you one day, if i had the readies they would've been mine in jig time. :(
wii.
You're right wii. I regret very much parting with them but have stock bills to pay, and needed to increase cash flow reserves. I have first dibs on buying them back which hopefully I will do some day in the future. I've really yet to hear them bettered this side of a £5K valve amp. However, the Primare does have its strengths too. It helps underline that realism and transparency are generally missed over outright scale and bass performance though.
The new amplifier:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/Cyber10_1.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5142.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5141.jpg
11 watts of pure Class A push-pull...2A3 output valves. Sublime sounding amp...very pleased with it.
jandl100
18-04-2012, 16:52
Cor, yummy! :eek: ... that's more like it , Paul. :thumbsup:
You'll have to pop over for a listen Jerry. I think you'll like/approve of the sound that these partnered with the Agi's make...
A few changes Chez Reffc:
Better late than never but Turnberrys pics for gallery:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5821_zpsca9cbd1d.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5822_zpsfd72912d.jpg
and here with the RFC plinths fitted:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/_MG_5948_zpsa394dad6.jpg
The latest addition to the fold (I couldn't resist):
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6109_zpse46d3f46.jpg
...And you have KIDS running amock amongst it all???? ;eek:
...And you have KIDS running amock amongst it all???? ;eek:
I know David...I'm a nervous wreck!
How is the SS Acuphase doing with the Tannoys Paul;)
panos_adgr
26-01-2013, 13:15
I bet that Luxman is making a great match with the Tannoys!
Tannoys are some of my favourite loudspeakers. A friend of mine owns the Westminster Royals SE and every time Ivisit him is an experience!
Enjoy them! I'm a Luxman owner too.
Looks stunning!
Back in the days when had the Turnberrys I was thinking to try one of those Luxman integrated amps with those but then gave up and now kind of regretting all that.. ;)
The Luxman is a great all rounder: low output impedance (close to zero), and a measured 78watts of pure Class A performance (rated modestly at 20 by Luxman!!).
It sounds a little polite and artificial compared with a good valve amp but is less compromised in certain areas such as bass control and extension, plus is more efficient and has everything in one box (MM/MC phono stage, headphone circuit, speaker switching controls, tape loop, loudness and tone controls that work properly! and a bypass control). Its quite energetic and very very smooth, almost valve-like in the mids. Better than Sugden A21? Yup...lots better. More guts, smoother and better bass.
However, it is less convincing in the mids (less "real" sounding) than the valve amps which is the trade off, plus doesn't dig quite as deep as the L-590 or the 550 class A/B even. Is it worth doubling budget for the 590? Nope, no by a country mile. Its a great all rounder but I would say that the Mastersound 845 utterly destroys it in the mid range and digs far deeper in the bass although it does not have the slam-dynamics or control (what you'd expect from a SET really). Which is better? Chalk and cheese and not comparable, so it depends which suits your personal tastes. A combination of both would be magical!
MM phonostage is very good indeed. MC less convincing although remarkably quiet. the EAR 834P is better for the MC setting by miles, but there's not a lot in it between MM stages. The Headphone circuit is so-so. It allows 'phones to be worn for night time listening but is quite a rudimentary headphone circuit.
Someone's gradually working their way to a Tube Distinctions methinks :)
One day maybe (never say never...I never have and look where its got me!...nope, don't answer that one on second thoughts :lol: )
Just a few more snaps...restored 401 in newer "RFC" plinth (chassis suspended on sorbothane to damp out motor noise and isolate tonearm but could just as easily bolt the deck and put the sorbothane under the tonearm...in fact may try it this way round at some point). Used more often than the Gyro these days. Cart is NOS Shure M95He (quite a find); arm is Hadcock GH242full cryo (whether that makes a difference or not I haven't the foggiest but it seems to suit the 401):
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5419.jpg
Consonance "Mini" Droplet (still weights 28Kg!)...Croft amps no longer in the system:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5320.jpg
Another look at the Turnberry stands:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_5928.jpg
The reserve Turntable!:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_5042.jpg
A wee bit more Hifi Pron :D
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6107_zpse1c25224.jpg
My oldest piece of Hifi! (anyone guess exactly what this one is?)
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5561.jpg
Please stop post piccys of the Turnberrys Paul!:D Why have the Crofts been removed from the system?:scratch:
I didn't find the Croft power amp worked well with the Tannoys and was too overblown in the bass plus lots of upper mid distortion (piano was worst affected) so am on a journey to fnd the perfect match for the Tnnoys and having a little fun "amp-rolling!!
Just for you Andy:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_5965.jpg
I didn't find the Croft power amp worked well with the Tannoys and was too overblown in the bass plus lots of upper mid distortion (piano was worst affected) so am on a journey to fnd the perfect match for the Tnnoys and having a little fun "amp-rolling!!
Just for you Andy:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_5965.jpg
:steam::doh::):cool:
That rooms look well nice Paul:eek:
You should get those cracks in the wall sorted Paul:ner:
You should get those cracks in the wall sorted Paul:ner:
There'll be cracks in me if my wife catches me sneaking any more hifi in! :stalks:
There'll be cracks in me if my wife catches me sneaking any more hifi in! :stalks:
:)
Anyone recognise the "new" valve power amps?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6336_zps6ec2c28e.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6333_zps21cd16f4.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6338_zps013ba37c.jpg
This sort of gives the game away! But which model?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6340_zps785c81ff.jpg
These weigh a proverbial ton! At Guess, all three units come in at close to 65Kg or perhaps a little more. They're split into separate mono's with a common power supply linked via umbilical cord.
70 watts Ultralinear or 30 Watts triode...something like that. Set to triode mode at present and sound wonderful with the Tannoys.
Anyone recognise the "new" valve power amps?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6336_zps6ec2c28e.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6333_zps21cd16f4.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6338_zps013ba37c.jpg
This sort of gives the game away! But which model?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6340_zps785c81ff.jpg
These weigh a proverbial ton!
Er no:popcorn:
VAC (Valve Amplier Company - USA) PA60 monoblocs. KT88's used in push-pull in pure class A. Very muscular but also very refined sounding. Magic mid range and very good bass performance. Load of heat though!
Firebottle
06-03-2013, 10:50
My oldest piece of Hifi! (anyone guess exactly what this one is?)
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_5561.jpg
A Thomas Edison cylinder playing 'Mary had a little lamb'?
:mental: Alan
A Thomas Edison cylinder playing 'Mary had a little lamb'?
:mental: Alan
Got it in one! This one dates form around 1904. I have around 100 wax cylinders for it. It's in need of some tlc but is more of a curio than anything else. Perhaps it'll be refurbished one day.
Thought it was about time that I added the new speakers to the gallery:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6563_zps0ed3ba1c.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6566_zps71ca276f.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6572_zps21b07d9d.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6574_zps8daf982c.jpg
The Vac amp has grown on me a lot. Plenty of power, lovely dynamics with the Tannoys;
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6336_zps6ec2c28e.jpg
Very, very nice Paul:eek:
The sepeakers have turned out very nicely :).
They look so formidable! Unusually, I prefer them with the covers on (to look at) - I bet they sound equally impressive! :)
Thanks chaps. I prefer them with the covers on too I think but the option's there. Strangely, they appear to be more intimidating with the covers removed as their scale becomes more obvious! They sound very clean, even at high volume. The design was intended to minimise distortion and it seems to have worked. Bass performance exceeds what I had estimated and it's all pretty much ruler flat to sub 30 Hz. I'll post some in-room measurements when I get round to doing them, but for now, listening to music is quite an experience.
What happened to the Hornings, Paul? Probably the best horn loaded speakers I've ever heard.
jandl100
02-05-2013, 06:29
Paul's had a bit of a "Speaker Adventure" since the departure of the Hornings last year, Martin!
But he seems to have sorted himself out by making his own. :)
What happened to the Hornings, Paul? Probably the best horn loaded speakers I've ever heard.
Hi Martin
as Jerry says, the Hornings went last year. They were probably the best horn loaded speakers I've heard too, just a little too over energetic in the bass! It tended to dominate in my modest space.
The DIY Tannoys are larger physically, but better balanced sonically.
Are you intending to make more of these Tannoy cabs Paul? They're too gorgeous in every way to be a one-off, surely?
Are you intending to make more of these Tannoy cabs Paul? They're too gorgeous in every way to be a one-off, surely?
Hi David,
thanks for the vote of confidence in the aesthetics!
Yes, I intend on building them for whoever would like a set as either cabs only, cabs and crossovers, or completed speakers.
I can also up-scale them to 200L versions for 15 inch MGs and HPDs as well.
I've listed them on my website now so that people have some detailed information on them plus the specifications and pricing. Materials costs are pretty high due to the quality of just about everything employed plus for the next pair(s) I would be employing someone else to do all the cabinet work (a trusted friend and cabinet maker) rather than attempting to replicate the first hard won pair! (It's more a time issue for me as each set takes about 150 hours in construction hence why it took several months to produce this pair). Design time won't be as much for future pairs as the basic design is already there and committed to paper. That took possibly more time investment than the construction truth be told. I would have to invest a little time in crossover design for anything bar the 12 inch HPDs. They really do sound great with the modest 12 inch HDPs though which are ideally suited to them.
Have had one audition and a first potential order for later in the year already. I'm not worried whether I sell many or not; just glad to be able to offer them for whoever would like a pair.
Can we have a picture of the crossover?
Can we have a picture of the crossover?
Here you go:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6614_zps3f7bc19e.jpg
Mark Pitcher supplied me with the PCB boards when he found out about the project although I had to modify the way things were laid out and drill a few extra holes!
Ferrite cored inductor isn't magically levitating but held in place with Araldite Rapid. That big LF air core is very hefty so a double dose of cable ties and silicone sealant needed to hold it in place.
Caps are Claritycap ESA's bar one which is the next one down the range (for the value I needed it was all I could find at reasonable cost). Every single component was measured for tolerance. Everything on that board is within 1% and both boards match exactly (even though the drivers probably don't, but I thought it best to get things as tight as possible). I went through a few resistors getting the tolerances, discarding ones which were a little way off although in practice it probably would have made little difference. One of the inductors needed a little unwinding too.
All inductors measure identical for inductance and DC resistance to the Tannoy original values. To get the notch filter inductor DC resistance the same, I needed to add a 1 Ohm in series with it, which is ok to do.
The twin 50 Ohms are paralleled for 25 Ohm. The original Tannoy crossovers may have a 50 Ohm in circuit but for fixed value inductors you have to take the inductance and impedance ratio across the autoformer into consideration. In the case of the electrically flat setting (green) the impedance ratio with the orange tap (which it is connected to in circuit) is 2.0, to the 50 Ohm needs dividing by 2 which is how I arrived at the 25 Ohm figure. Nerdy stuff, but it might be of some help if someone else wants to have a go building their own. Sonically the speakers seem to measure flatter than a witches whatsit and sound very balanced indeed.
Thanks - good pic too.
Looks like a nice job. I was intersted to see what makes of components you have used - very similar to those chosen for my own NS-1000M project as it happens.
Thanks - good pic too.
Looks like a nice job. I was intersted to see what makes of components you have used - very similar to those chosen for my own NS-1000M project as it happens.
Is it a 2nd order x-over for the NS-1000M's H? I'm guessing if so, you have an inversion in polarity between inputs/outputs?
The Yamaha's do use a 2nd order crossover and have the tweeters connected with inverted polarity.
I see you have chosen not to use MOX resistors and I meant to ask if there is a particular reason for this - size perhaps?
Yes, purely size constraints. The Welwyn wire wounds aren't bad at all and I have tested and selected each one to be spot on value-wise. I could have just about (although untidily) shoe-horned in something like Mundorf MOX resistors but they're 52mm long, almost double the length of the Welwyns. Wire-wounds are very acceptable for use in the signal path so I wasn't overly concerned.
Yes, makes sense - Mundorf and Jantzen both do MOX resistors and appear to be very much the same thing - as you say, both are inconveniently large (long) - not as blooming inconvenient as the Duelund 'pencil lead' resistors though!
I don't know if you have tried it, but I replaced the ClarityCap ESA cap that was in the HF leg with a Mundorf Supreme and this did seem to make a worthwhile difference (the cost wasn't too prohibitive given the value I needed - but the Mundorf was about three times the size of the ESA it replaced).
Personally, I've opted not to use any kind of circuit board and use laser cut acrylic to position the components neatly (the legs pass through holes in the acrylic and caps and inductors are cradled in cutouts), hard-wiring everything together underneath.
realysm42
03-05-2013, 08:30
Paul, how are such monstrous drivers high sensitivity?
I don't understand why all speakers aren't that what, unless there's drawbacks?
Large drivers (not that 12" is particularly 'monstrous' in the greater scheme of woofer sizing) all tend to be reasonably high sensitivity if they have pulp cones (light weight) - 92db isn't astonishingly sensitive - they would have to be closer to 100db (or even above) for that to be the case.
Paul, how are such monstrous drivers high sensitivity?
I don't understand why all speakers aren't that what, unless there's drawbacks?
The sensitivity comes with large magnet size, relatively low cone inertia and limited excursion combined with highly compliant suspension and surrounds. I don't know why more manufacturers aren't making sensitive drive units, but then again most modern drivers aren't so large and need to be smaller diameter and longer throw. To generate the SPL's needed, and with the electro-mechanical considerations, this usually results in lower sensitivity. That's not a bad thing in itself, but the beauty with highly sensitive large drivers is that you get good transient response and dynamic range for a handful of watts, whereas most insensitive designs lose this as power input drops meaning they rarely sound as natural at lower volumes. That's my experience anyway.
realysm42
03-05-2013, 09:12
Makes sense, my speakers are 87 d/b sensitivity and sound better at higher volumes, which is a shame really.
You still using you VAC amps? Had a look at their site, very cool looking stuff.
Yes, manufacturers have generally concentrated on producing the same output and low distortion from smaller drivers, this leads to lower sensitivity.
There are still manufacturers producing 12" (and larger) paper coned drivers and these have similar sensitivity to those used by Tannoy. The negative aspect of very high sensitivity speakers is that distortion tends to increase; however, there is a valid argument that this is the lesser of evils.
Makes sense, my speakers are 87 d/b sensitivity and sound better at higher volumes, which is a shame really.
You still using you VAC amps? Had a look at their site, very cool looking stuff.
Yup...if you flick back a page or two, the photos of the VAC amps are the latest ones. Pretty decent sounding so quite happy with them.
I'm not really familiar with their newer gear as my PA60's date from the early 1990's. I know I couldn't afford their new prices today though!
jandl100
05-05-2013, 07:28
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6566_zps71ca276f.jpg
I heard them at Paul's place yesterday.
Coo - a bit of a shock - they are much bigger than I expected!
Easily the best speakers Paul's had since I've known him - Hornings, Harbeths, Tannoy Turnberry - nope, they don't come close.
I'm not usually a fan of Tannoy DC drivers, but Paul's implementation were amazingly open, dynamic and fast. Bass is seriously deep and amazingly well controlled. There's still a flavour of the 'Tannoy Tang' in the mids, beloved by many, and they do need a bit of amp welly, imo, or the treble can get a bit forward and splashy when the going gets going. His amps in 30wpc triode mode lost it a bit - much better when he changed it to 60wpc ultralinear. We both thought so, I think. I'd love to try them with some powerful but sweet solid state!
A high end, superbly finished, genuinely professional product. They look fabulous. And they sound seriously good. £7-8k a pair? - easily worth it, imho. If you are in that sort of £area of the market and looking for new speakers, get your ass over to Paul's place!
Interesting. I would have been there but I didn't want to get up at the crack of dawn.
I'm booked in on Tuesday, for a second opinion.:) I'm not adverse to Prestige series Tannoys. Curious to see what these are like.
I heard them at Paul's place yesterday.
Coo - a bit of a shock - they are much bigger than I expected!
Easily the best speakers Paul's had since I've known him - Hornings, Harbeths, Tannoy Turnberry - nope, they don't come close.
I'm not usually a fan of Tannoy DC drivers, but Paul's implementation were amazingly open, dynamic and fast. Bass is seriously deep and amazingly well controlled. There's still a flavour of the 'Tannoy Tang' in the mids, beloved by many, and they do need a bit of amp welly, imo, or the treble can get a bit forward and splashy when the going gets going. His amps in 30wpc triode mode lost it a bit - much better when he changed it to 60wpc ultralinear. We both thought so, I think. I'd love to try them with some powerful but sweet solid state!
A high end, superbly finished, genuinely professional product. They look fabulous. And they sound seriously good. £7-8k a pair? - easily worth it, imho. If you are in that sort of £area of the market and looking for new speakers, get your ass over to Paul's place!
Glad you enjoyed them Jerry! They are pretty large in the flesh so to speak. Gross volume on these is 178 litres.
Popped round to Paul’s yesterday as promised. What struck me is that the speakers look even better in real life than in the pictures. The magnetic grill mechanism works superbly, and they look dead smart both on and off. The contrast between the walnut and sycamore looks much more sympathetic than the photos had led me to believe. They look like serious kit – and they are. Construction is bomb shelter grade - well, almost!
Putting some Sly & Robbie on showed excellent control and definition in the bass, with genuine extension. Even at fairly immense volume the amps totally kept it together (ultra-linear mode). The obvious Massive Attack Angel test passed with flying colours.
Swapping over to a CD of me playing my Gibson SJ200 Custom Cutaway in a fairly manic strumming session (which Paul is now the lucky owner of:lol:!), showed fine resolution of detail with plenty of speed. Image scale is larger than life with this sort of thing – but I like big speakers as they provide a magnifying glass into the performance of small scale items. TBH even a small pair of high performance monitors upscale an acoustic to something larger than real life – and way louder when the volume is cranked. So even more of a good thing is no bad thing, if you catch my drift.
This presents an irony with hi-fi, and in another sense a real problem for the pedant concerned with accuracy. For my money, I think the replayed recording of my acoustic sounds a damn sight MORE impressive via a great hi-fi system than it does in real life. It is NOT accurate, but it IS freaking impressive when cranked.
I could go on, but Jerry is going to review them I believe, so he can do all the hard work
Anyone who likes vintage Tannoys that employ this type(ish) of driver should definitely hear these. Anyone else in the market in this price bracket should make the effort if not for any other reason than to show want one man can achieve with some will power, a contact or two, and some serious effort. Paul should feel justly proud. I actually feel proud of him somehow:)
Hi Justin
good to see you yesterday and mighty impressive your "strumming" was. Note perfect! My ears are still ringing a bit from the volume we played some of the music to but it was great to hear some impressive tunes bashed out by the big Tannoys.
Following the recent amp shoot out after final development/tetsing of the Fidelio Loudspeakers, for those who've not read the thread, here's a picture of the amp which knocked the VAC amps of their pedestal for sheer grip and musicality:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6919_zpsc8d342b4.jpg
There's something satisfying about buying older , well serviced kit and knowing that it can kick the butt of some new, flash and usually very expensive pretenders. This amp's really a youngster at just 13 years old compared with some items in the system which are 45 years old and still going strong.
The EAR's a great amp and once again demonstrates to me the genius of Mr TdP for his expert circuit design, bomb proof build quality and the sheer musicality of his kit. Shame it's now so expensive to get hold of new, but I guess it's priced mainly for export these days.
EAR probably doesn't sell well enough in the UK now at the lower prices to make it viable (such a tiny market compared to the 70's and 80's). He does apparently sell loads in the far east, where status AND THE PRICE TAG seems to be everything, and this is one reason why the (to me) excellent Tron stuff is similarly expensive, as it wouldn't even be considered at a UK-fair price.
Thank heavens for Glenn, Icon Audio and the likes of Albarry (can't wait to hear their slightly revised preamp, I'm told by hifi dave (and Leo ages ago) it's seriously good now :))
I agree with that David but EAR kit is still seriously well designed and great sounding, plus on the used market is no more pricey than anything of equivalent performance I've yet heard. The export marketing is certainly a blow for UK enthusiasts but lets remember that without it, the UK market alone would be too small to sustain companies like EAR. I, for one, have no problem about buying Tim's kit used and knowing it's made for life. EAR's customer service, like Michell and several other UK manufacturers also seems to be first class.
Thought I'd take some better quality updated system pics. System as it stands today:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6962_zps982f1b7e.jpg
Top to bottom:
EAR 869; Croft Micro25 (phono); Consonance Mini Droplet 3.1 CDP; Denon TU260LII tuner
Vinyl Front ends:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6958_zpsf2536361.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6961_zps4af42b67.jpg
Garrard 401/Hadcock GH242 Cryo/Shure V15IV/VN35He/RFC Skeletal Plinth
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6959_zpsd95b5c7b.jpg
Michell Gyro SE/SME309/Shelter 5000. A great combination and I've never seen any reason to upgrade any part of it.
In full swing:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6970_zpsd38b6278.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6965_zps1eb43aa1.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6969_zps70dc39e9.jpg
The power-house:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6964_zps85b8c836.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6963_zps5918f3e6.jpg
Speakers: RFC Reference Fidelio:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6976_zps6c49c7cf.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6974_zps6ee09fa7.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6977_zps3631304e.jpg
The little fella...just for scale!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6980_zpsd56c82c7.jpg
I'm very happy with the system now. It's got to a stage where it's revealing enough to use as a reference system for kit comparisons when developing cables/SUTs and for other kit comparisons (business related rather than for pleasure). As a hifi system, I'm sure there are better, but this is musically engaging and allows hours of fatigue free listening, even at high volumes. You get the emotional engagement rather than listen critically which is how I like it. Engaging with music instead of hifi.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_6969_zps70dc39e9.jpg
Love it!
julesd68
12-07-2013, 14:14
I'm very happy with the system now. It's got to a stage where it's revealing enough to use as a reference system for kit comparisons when developing cables/SUTs and for other kit comparisons (business related rather than for pleasure). As a hifi system, I'm sure there are better, but this is musically engaging and allows hours of fatigue free listening, even at high volumes. You get the emotional engagement rather than listen critically which is how I like it. Engaging with music instead of hifi.
That's my kind of system - vinyl > tubes > Tannoys. Whilst my system is much more modest than yours, your description is exactly the same way I feel about mine. :)
That's my kind of system - vinyl > tubes > Tannoys. Whilst my system is much more modest than yours, your description is exactly the same way I feel about mine. :)
I like the vinyl and tubes Jules, but also like the digital front end too. The Droplet is one of the more analogue sounding devices. The only addition to the system for future flexibility will be a Jolida DAC to take care of streaming duties. Regarding the Tannoy drivers, properly implemented, as with the Reference Fidelio 'speakers, I would find it hard going back to anything else, although never say never :D
julesd68
12-07-2013, 15:22
I like the vinyl and tubes Jules, but also like the digital front end too. The Droplet is one of the more analogue sounding devices. The only addition to the system for future flexibility will be a Jolida DAC to take care of streaming duties. Regarding the Tannoy drivers, properly implemented, as with the Reference Fidelio 'speakers, I would find it hard going back to anything else, although never say never :D
I'm 99% vinyl, but for the 1% digital listening my 'entry level' Consonance is absoutely fantastic, so I can only imagine how good the Droplet must be!
337alant
15-07-2013, 16:28
Lovely system Reffc :stalks:
What is the valve amp?
Alan
Lovely system Reffc :stalks:
What is the valve amp?
Alan
Thanks Alan
The valve amp's an EAR 869 and very nice it sounds too! Single ended design but uses enough negative feedback (quite sensibly) to afford more than ample control for bass and keeps the amp very stable. Uses hard to find EL519 valves but these can be changed for PL519's (common and cheap) with a simple heater circuit modification.
The Black Adder
16-07-2013, 08:23
Hi Paul... How do you find the Shure IV? Plenty of welly?
My G800 will be going for a re-tip soon I hope at NWA... Need a stop gap cart so just wondering.
Joe
Hi Paul... How do you find the Shure IV? Plenty of welly?
My G800 will be going for a re-tip soon I hope at NWA... Need a stop gap cart so just wondering.
Joe
Hi Joe
yes, no shortage of output or welly from the IV, fitted with the He stylus, but tbh I prefer the balance of the III. I haven't got the II fitted to the Hadcock because I haven't got round to finding long enough bolts yet!
I like the vinyl and tubes Jules, but also like the digital front end too. The Droplet is one of the more analogue sounding devices. The only addition to the system for future flexibility will be a Jolida DAC to take care of streaming duties. Regarding the Tannoy drivers, properly implemented, as with the Reference Fidelio 'speakers, I would find it hard going back to anything else, although never say never :D
All,
I had the pleasure of listening to Paul's system, both analogue and digital, recently, when I picked up something I had bought from him. It really does sound as good as it looks. I really would find an excuse to listen :). The Reference Fidelios are something else again.
Peter
New amps arriving tomorrow at RFC mansions...expansion of my business into loudspeaker refurbishment means that I need amps with a more catholic appeal as far as loudspeakers goes, amps that will drive difficult loads and provide a decent damping factor, and crucially, amps that refrain from adding too much of their own tonal colour. The rather stunning EAR 869 is great with my own speakers but is not the right amp for that duty, hence the recent sale after a few short months.
Any ideas? A few clues:
shoe boxes they're not :nono: there's no leather in these;
Everything including the sinks, but these are not kitchen sinks :eyebrows:
Valves they're not yet invitingly they still glow :scratch:
Like a Scania, they'll deal with heavy loads;
They're not from Holland yet measure just as flat;
unlike some marques of bling, there's no extraneous fat;
What you see is what you get ;)
Some great sounds were heard where we first met :hairmetal:
Any ideas? (himself who knows keep schtumm or I'll tread on yar toes).
The shoe boxes have landed:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7294_zps3688f582.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7298_zps15e65ad7.jpg
For scale:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7300_zpseed3b01e.jpg
Albarry's? Bit long in the tooth Paul! You just fell for those red facias....:)
Anyway, you should do a Fidelio Reference Extreme... a nice tall three Tannoy drivers per speaker effort to really kick some butt. Not that they don't kick at least a bit of but as they are. Tease, tease.
Albarry's? Bit long in the tooth Paul! You just fell for those red facias....:)
Anyway, you should do a Fidelio Reference Extreme... a nice tall three Tannoy drivers per speaker effort to really kick some butt. Not that they don't kick at least a bit of but as they are. Tease, tease.
Reference extremas....:eyebrows:hmmmm
The Fidelios are immense with the Albarrys Justin. Bass to rattle next doors' walls let alone ours! I've come over from the far side...seen the light, and the future's berry coloured, not orange :lol:
Seriously, they sound incredible with the Albarrys driving them. Only change I made was to fit 220K feedback resistors into the croft pre to lower the gain a bit. Great match with the croft but I've got a buffer circuit using a unity gain op-amp that I may build to see what buffering the impedance seen by the croft does. Sounds very neutral as it stands though.
Very nice Paul,looks luverly on top of the isolation platform.:eek:
Sovereign
05-10-2013, 08:25
Looks good mate, do they light up red when you turn them on?
Hi Chaps
yes...LED's internally light up when on. They consume about 8W in idle mode mainly as the power factor ramps up, but the advice is to keep them switched on all the time. They certainly sounded better after several hours but then again those massive caps needed forming as the amps allegedly have had no use, or at least have not been switched on or used for quite some time.
realysm42
05-10-2013, 09:47
Nice, do you use the matching pre with it Paul?
Hi Martin
no, I use a Croft Micro25 Phono with a few internal tweaks of my own. It sounds fabulous with the Albarrys.
What model number are they, Paul?
What model number are they, Paul?
They're M608s, 60wpc Justin
Ali Tait
05-10-2013, 12:03
Reference extremas....:eyebrows:hmmmm
The Fidelios are immense with the Albarrys Justin. Bass to rattle next doors' walls let alone ours! I've come over from the far side...seen the light, and the future's berry coloured, not orange :lol:
Seriously, they sound incredible with the Albarrys driving them. Only change I made was to fit 220K feedback resistors into the croft pre to lower the gain a bit. Great match with the croft but I've got a buffer circuit using a unity gain op-amp that I may build to see what buffering the impedance seen by the croft does. Sounds very neutral as it stands though.
You could try one of these Paul, I've heard good reports of it-
http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/acf9pin.html
There is also a self contained version sith built in power supplies.
They're M608s, 60wpc Justin
Would have quite liked to try the 110 Watt version on my speakers. No matter.
They do look very nice indeed. Enjoy...:)
You could try one of these Paul, I've heard good reports of it-
http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/acf9pin.html
There is also a self contained version sith built in power supplies.
Thanks for the link Ali, but I've had a circuit diagram supplied of one I'd like to have a go at building...no valves involved, just uses a simple circuit based around an NE5532 Op amp...low noise, low/no distortion, unity gain using a 100KOhm buffer load resistor with a 100 Ohm output resistor. No need for me to complicate it really, just wanted to see if it makes any difference but tbh, they sound as near to perfect now as-is.
Ali Tait
05-10-2013, 13:34
No worries. Good thing with the Aikido is a low PSSR. I'm building one myself to try.
Sovereign
05-10-2013, 15:56
No worries. Good thing with the Aikido is a low PSSR. I'm building one myself to try.
Nite one Ali, keep us posted
Ali Tait
05-10-2013, 16:31
Will do.
Had Vinylspinner & Gregory over today...great morning listening to tunes. Hope you still have some hearing left guys!
julesd68
07-10-2013, 20:32
Hi Paul, you've got me thinking about my old Albarrys now! I had the four box set up - power supply / pre / monoblocks ... Sold it sometime ago but I would never have heard it at its best - would love to hear what it would have been capable of with my current system ...
Hi Paul, you've got me thinking about my old Albarrys now! I had the four box set up - power supply / pre / monoblocks ... Sold it sometime ago but I would never have heard it at its best - would love to hear what it would have been capable of with my current system ...
You'd be welcome to pop over and have a listen any time you like.:pub:
vinylspinner
08-10-2013, 14:58
Hello Paul,
Thank you and Kirsty for a very pleasant day out, enjoyed listening to some very good music played on an excellent sounding system, those speakers do sound very good indeed, you have done a great job there, also impressed with the Shelter 5000 cartridge, you must drop in and have a listen to my system at some point, I think you will be very impressed with my 401/ Zeta /Allnic combi, it will take something special to better it imho.
best regards
Nigel
Hello Paul,
Thank you and Kirsty for a very pleasant day out, enjoyed listening to some very good music played on an excellent sounding system, those speakers do sound very good indeed, you have done a great job there, also impressed with the Shelter 5000 cartridge, you must drop in and have a listen to my system at some point, I think you will be very impressed with my 401/ Zeta /Allnic combi, it will take something special to better it imho.
best regards
Nigel
You're very welcome Nigel, it was a pleasure having you here and I'd love to pop in and listen to your system just as soon as time allows!
Albarrys now in the heart of the system:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7426_zps5c6a756f.jpg
This has released the Droplet from its captivity so it now adorns the top of the unit:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7427_zpsbd5f43fe.jpg
fabulous looking stuff Paul...:stalks:
Albarrys now in the heart of the system:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7426_zps5c6a756f.jpg
This has released the Droplet from its captivity so it now adorns the top of the unit:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7427_zpsbd5f43fe.jpg
I am trying to decide whether that is a CD player or a UFO. Care to make a report on my website Paul??? :lol:
Albarry!!! Yummy Yummy :D
I am trying to decide whether that is a CD player or a UFO. Care to make a report on my website Paul??? :lol:
Albarry!!! Yummy Yummy :D
At 28 Kilos...it's a bit heavy for flight David!
28kgs??? :stalks:
It sure is a looker, never heard one though :)
The Reffc system will have new additions shortly in the guise of some permenent Demo Rhapsody speakers to join the Fidelios:
Final pictures to come but here's a snap of the (as yet) un-finished cabinet! More pictures are on P14 of my dealer's "Sticky" thread:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/_MG_7648_zps2d18296f.jpg
Looking nice...:stalks::eyebrows: I'm sure they'll look great when properly finished.
Might have to pop round when they're done.
Looking nice...:stalks::eyebrows: I'm sure they'll look great when properly finished.
Might have to pop round when they're done.
Come on over in the New Year Justin. I'd be interested in your thoughts. They'll need some tinkering time once run in. I'd say a few weeks from the drivers being run-in to final crossover tweaks is all they'll really need.
They look rather tasty! I note the side placed port. As a matter of curiosity do you expect the sound to be different if Left and Right are swapped?
Hi Andrei
I placed the ports on the inside face so that there'd be less chance of interaction with wall boundaries. The speaker above is therefore the right-hand channel speaker. The port is off centre for a number of reasons, including pulling it off axis to drop the audible level of any mid-range leakage (that's addressed by other design means too) plus aesthetically it looks better I think to have a symmetrically matched pair. The photo wont do the final versions justice so I'll post some more photos when they're done. The front Walnut framing will have a full radius all the way round to reduce diffraction issues, there'll be copper name plates on the right hand side lower corner and the cabinets will be sanded down and Danish oiled. Still a fair amount of work left.
Come on over in the New Year Justin. I'd be interested in your thoughts. They'll need some tinkering time once run in. I'd say a few weeks from the drivers being run-in to final crossover tweaks is all they'll really need.
Will do may bring some tube gear round to see if they likey. Repairer may have the Beard sorted by then.
Will do may bring some tube gear round to see if they likey. Repairer may have the Beard sorted by then.
They're designed to be a benign load for valve amps due to the flat impedance load (about 6 Ohms), shallow phase angle and decent sensitivity (90dB/1W/1m) so any valve amp from about 15watts upwards should be enough Justin. The more the better though. A 40 watt valve amp would be perfect and have more than enough grunt.
Well the Beard will have ample power then at 50W. He's a colourful gent, though, so when assessing your speakers for neutrality he's not really the tool to use.
However, no harm in trying... for interests sake... and general enjoyment:)
Hi Andrei
... it looks better I think to have a symmetrically matched pair.
I think its great when form and function combine. In fact one of my pet peeves is some of the hideous bling out there. From my own fumbling efforts at woodwork I can already see that these are going to turn a few heads.
Yes symmetry is good. I'm struggling with my new toys as they're not visually symmetric and it ..hmm.. looks funny despite cannot hear the difference :)
Oh yes, and nice looking speakers indeed!
Here's some recent pictures of the new Reference Rhapsody loudspeakers...whilst they're sizeable, for scale, that's the large Fidelios dwarfing them in the background. Too many speakers in this room! I'm very pleased with how these have turned out. The sound quality is great...lovely and neutral, with more than enough weight and punch. This pair is self-finished, so has the solid Walnut edging and the grade AB Baltic Birch which has had 5 coats of Danish oil and once hardened, I've polished the surface with Carnuaba wax. I think they'd look stunning in something like a Burr Maple but the self finish has worked surprisingly well:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/Rhapsody_zps75bec9d0.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/_MG_7666_zps5f80f71a.jpg
I somehow had impression that these would be much larger still, something like Devore Orangutans etc :scratch:
The speakers do look nice despite in a need for better, or actually visually more suitable, stands. Do you already have some ideas for that part?
I somehow had impression that these would be much larger still, something like Devore Orangutans etc :scratch:
The speakers do look nice despite in a need for better, or actually visually more suitable, stands. Do you already have some ideas for that part?
Hi Mika
Thanks. I'm developing a bespoke stand for these in conjunction with a major manufacturer who will produce them for me in high carbon steel. The stands shown are Atacama SL400's some of the beefiest and largest footprint stands currently available!. Most are pretty tiny these days unless something exotic is purchased. The option is for a pair of hand made timber stands (4 column) the same width as the speakers. They are quite large...it's just that the Fidelios behind are huge by modern standards. Overall height in that photo is close to 1100 mm for the Rhapsodys and stands. Volume is about 57 litres per cabinet.
Sovereign
22-12-2013, 15:03
[QUOTE=Reffc;511570]The sound quality is great...lovely and neutral, with more than enough weight and punch. This pair is self-finished, so has the solid Walnut edging and the grade AB Baltic Birch which has had 5 coats of Danish oil and once hardened, I've polished the surface with Carnuaba wax. I think they'd look stunning in something like a Burr Maple but the self finish has worked surprisingly well:
If your happy with the sound Paul then I'm sure they sound excellent.
Like most of us here, I have heard many systems but have not really been impressed with most of them, however your fidelios speakers on the end of your carefully matched system sounded quite exceptional. You have an excellent ear and a great deal of skill, I would love to hear your new Rhapsody speakers at some point.
[QUOTE=Reffc;511570]The sound quality is great...lovely and neutral, with more than enough weight and punch. This pair is self-finished, so has the solid Walnut edging and the grade AB Baltic Birch which has had 5 coats of Danish oil and once hardened, I've polished the surface with Carnuaba wax. I think they'd look stunning in something like a Burr Maple but the self finish has worked surprisingly well:
If your happy with the sound Paul then I'm sure they sound excellent.
Like most of us here, I have heard many systems but have not really been impressed with most of them, however your fidelios speakers on the end of your carefully matched system sounded quite exceptional. You have an excellent ear and a great deal of skill, I would love to hear your new Rhapsody speakers at some point.
That's very kind of you to say so James and you'd be welcome to come and hear the Rhapsodys. The Fidelios by the way underwent surgery and sound even better now (especially on the end of the Albarry monoblocs)! I'm on Mk4 crossovers with them and I think they're probably about as good as I can get them now. It takes time to properly voice speakers but the Rhapsodies were almost spot on from the word go. I just have to raise crossover point slightly and I'm there with them. The crossover circuit design has taken several months to perfect for them and 8 crossover versions were trialled, but listening tests after another 40 hours or so of listening will dictate final values (I start with measured driver parameters, design from there with a flat frequency response as the target along with low distortion but final tuning is always by ear).
Are those the stands you are thinking will go with them?
Also, will you be adding a grill?
Are those the stands you are thinking will go with them?
Also, will you be adding a grill?
Hi Mark
no, the stands offered will be as described above, ie bespoke to the Rhapsodies in either steel or timber. As mentioned, the ones above are off the shelf SL400 stands.
Grill is a good point. I hadn't planned on it as I dislike fixing holes on baffles and the use of plastic push-fit grill fixings but am happy to provide grills. I will offer magnetically attached grills for veneered cabinets (as with the Fidelios speakers) but ordinary fixings with the self-finished birch fronted speakers (like the ones above). It will add a little cost but not much. It will be an option with the speakers as I know plenty of people who never use their grills.
The Grand Wazoo
22-12-2013, 19:00
You know what I think is great about these speakers and your efforts here?
It's the fact that you haven't been afraid to build them in the old fashioned way, with a box that's wider than it is deep. They're not skinny streaks of compromise like 90% of modern speakers!
Well done!
Indeed... Wide baffles rule ok, ya bass!!
Marco.
You know what I think is great about these speakers and your efforts here?
It's the fact that you haven't been afraid to build them in the old fashioned way, with a box that's wider than it is deep. They're not skinny streaks of compromise like 90% of modern speakers!
Well done!
Thank you. Yes, I worried about not supplying something more fashionable in the small foot-print stakes, but you know what? the imaging is none the worst for it. In fact, the depth of sound stage creates quite an astonishing pin-point musical stage which seems more constrained on even some smaller stand mounters I use here (I have 4 pairs including Celestions, Missions the Fidelios and the Rhapsodys). My aim was never fashion-victim marketing, it was musical pleasure and in that I think I've been lucky enough to succeed with these. Veneered, I do think that they will be a lovely piece of furniture and they're incredibly solid...drop them from a few thousand feet and they'd probably bounce :lol:
The main reasons for the baffle width though have little to do with fashion or wanting a retro look. The main reason is that efficiency for bass rises plus the cabinet design is more phase correct. This means that timbre, especially in acoustic or simpler music, stands out with more realism. The reason is that baffle step correction circuits can be avoided therefore the phase inaccuracies that they bring (through additional series inductance) can also be avoided.
The trade-off is that for some music, particularly that multi-layered recorded to create artificial soundstage for hifi loses a little of its imaging (left to right focus) but that for me is no loss as I'd rather have accuracy of timbre. Soundstage depth seems unaffected and is superb. In the quest for fashion and WAF ticks, many narrow baffle speakers have lost tonal accuracy because of the phase issues as well as losing efficiency. The way that sensitivity is boosted in the latter case is to add more drivers, hence the large number of floor standers with two or three woofers to boost low output. They only regain phase accuracy if the step correction filter is avoided.
The beauty with the wide baffle is that not only is sensitivity maintained, but so is tonal accuracy and only one mid/woofer is needed. I could have made a narrow, deep box, but for the given sensitivity would likely have needed two woofers. That would have upped the cost, hence price, considerably as the cabinet design would also have been more complex and additional bracing would have been required not to mention more crossover complexity and additional wiring plus amplifier demands.
There's method to the madness...
Lee Henley
23-12-2013, 16:04
Hi Mika
Thanks. I'm developing a bespoke stand for these in conjunction with a major manufacturer who will produce them for me in high carbon steel. The stands shown are Atacama SL400's some of the beefiest and largest footprint stands currently available!. Most are pretty tiny these days unless something exotic is purchased. The option is for a pair of hand made timber stands (4 column) the same width as the speakers. They are quite large...it's just that the Fidelios behind are huge by modern standards. Overall height in that photo is close to 1100 mm for the Rhapsodys and stands. Volume is about 57 litres per cabinet.
Hi Paul, My experience with high carbon steel is that it needs heat treating since it's quite brittle, tends to be used for spring manufacture.
Was there any reason behind the use of high carbon steel?
Lee
Hi Paul, My experience with high carbon steel is that it needs heat treating since it's quite brittle, tends to be used for spring manufacture.
Was there any reason behind the use of high carbon steel?
Lee
Hi Lee
I should have been more specific...it's just the base plates which are Carbon steel; the main supports are, as far as I know, ordinary steel. The carbon base plates are for strength as I understand, but the stands as a whole are engineered for good control of resonance and like many others, will use hollow columns which can be further mass-loaded. Carbon steel should not be brittle if properly heat treated. It is very stiff and very strong, hence the use in knife blades for centuries as well as leaf springs.
Lee Henley
23-12-2013, 16:47
Hi Paul
All steel has carbon present, without it it's not steel.
High carbon steel is brittle until heat treated, all you need is a basic SR275 grade steel for all the parts, should do you the job no problem at all, and save you a bit of money as well. HC steel is normally very expensive
Lee
Hi Paul
All steel has carbon present, without it it's not steel.
High carbon steel is brittle until heat treated, all you need is a basic SR275 grade steel for all the parts, should do you the job no problem at all, and save you a bit of money as well. HC steel is normally very expensive
Lee
Hi Lee
yes, I understand that as I used to work extensively with the material myself. The base is high carbon steel and is treated for specific stiffness/strength and is not brittle in any way or shape ;)
Lee Henley
23-12-2013, 17:02
Nice one
The Droplet is sadly going from the system after just under 3 years of very enjoyable use. It's without a shadow of a doubt one of the best sounding CDPs I've heard.
There's a new kid on the block if I can raise sufficient funds to stretch to it, it will replace the Droplet. Just fancied a change and curious RE reputation of the replacement which is as rare as rocking horse do-do but one cropped up so we'll see what may fill the void that the Droplet will leave behind. Big shoes to fill, that's for sure!
337alant
05-02-2014, 12:24
Lovely looking system there Paul, love the speakers and the Albarry amps
Alan
Cheers Alan. The Albarrys are lovely things and work better with Tannoy drivers than any valve amp I've ever tried.
Should have the new CDP in the system tomorrow so more pics will follow.
Cheers Alan. The Albarrys are lovely things and work better with Tannoy drivers than any valve amp I've ever tried.
Should have the new CDP in the system tomorrow so more pics will follow.
:popcorn:
jandl100
06-02-2014, 07:33
Prepare to drool - it's a stunner! :D
Here it is...arrived safe and sound today!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7914_zpsedaa982b.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7916_zps6f4faa23.jpg
It's physically very big...too big for most racks I suspect and not far off Parasound Halo dimensions, so it has plenty of presence. Weighs in a fair bit lighter than the Droplet but is still 16kg of heft.
Fit and finish are exceptional as you'd expect from Accuphase. My only moan is that the remote is made of plastic and I'd expect something more robust at this level. Still, it's well laid out and works well too.
This player has twin digital inputs as well as outputs and unusually you can set digital recording level. Not something I'd probably get into but it seems very flexible and would as seem to be equally suited to serious studio or home use.
Sound wise, it's early days obviously but OMG :eek:
I've heard a fair few exotic players over the years, but I have no hesitation on first impressions of saying that this has to be the best of the bunch in one respect: most players put you at the back or middle of the venue and whilist imaging and SQ can be smooth and analogue like, it's still clearly a poor facsimile of the real thing. As far as it can be achieve in audio, this player puts you right there. It doesn't over emphasise any part of the frequency spectrum, it's smooth without being syrupy or drawing attention to the smoothness, but oh my word, it has that "live" sound that all others get so close to but too few ever manage. It puts you right up there and on some tracks with female vocals especially, the old chestnut about them being in the room has never been so apparent. When the mix gets busier, it never seems to muddle and sound-staging isn't just good, it's at a level where amongst the busiest of tracks you can still clearly pick instruments out. It does seem to have that uncanny presence that brings music alive. I'm sure as I listen on for a few weeks I'll find some weaknesses, as all audio has them, but on first impressions it is without a shadow of a doubt the best digital source I've yet heard. To top it off, whilst the Droplet was no slouch, the bass on the Accuphase digs deeper and is presented with more authority, further enhancing the live-like credentials of this player.
Utterly beguiling and sonically stunning.
I've always liked Accuphase kit. Any idea what drive is used, Paul, or is it their own?
Afraid I don't know what drive they use Martin but it's very quiet on loading and spinning up a disc which it does incredibly quickly (no waiting 10 seconds to queue the CD). I know the processor is a 16-24 Bit linear DAC (MDStype 24 Bit: Digital de-emphasis as they call it); sampling @ 32, 44.1 and 48 KHz.
The laser head is a Sony affair I think.
Here it is...arrived safe and sound today!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7914_zpsedaa982b.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7916_zps6f4faa23.jpg
It's physically very big...too big for most racks I suspect and not far off Parasound Halo dimensions, so it has plenty of presence. Weighs in a fair bit lighter than the Droplet but is still 16kg of heft.
Fit and finish are exceptional as you'd expect from Accuphase. My only moan is that the remote is made of plastic and I'd expect something more robust at this level. Still, it's well laid out and works well too.
This player has twin digital inputs as well as outputs and unusually you can set digital recording level. Not something I'd probably get into but it seems very flexible and would as seem to be equally suited to serious studio or home use.
Sound wise, it's early days obviously but OMG :eek:
I've heard a fair few exotic players over the years, but I have no hesitation on first impressions of saying that this has to be the best of the bunch in one respect: most players put you at the back or middle of the venue and whilist imaging and SQ can be smooth and analogue like, it's still clearly a poor facsimile of the real thing. As far as it can be achieve in audio, this player puts you right there. It doesn't over emphasise any part of the frequency spectrum, it's smooth without being syrupy or drawing attention to the smoothness, but oh my word, it has that "live" sound that all others get so close to but too few ever manage. It puts you right up there and on some tracks with female vocals especially, the old chestnut about them being in the room has never been so apparent. When the mix gets busier, it never seems to muddle and sound-staging isn't just good, it's at a level where amongst the busiest of tracks you can still clearly pick instruments out. It does seem to have that uncanny presence that brings music alive. I'm sure as I listen on for a few weeks I'll find some weaknesses, as all audio has them, but on first impressions it is without a shadow of a doubt the best digital source I've yet heard. To top it off, whilst the Droplet was no slouch, the bass on the Accuphase digs deeper and is presented with more authority, further enhancing the live-like credentials of this player.
Utterly beguiling and sonically stunning.
Impossible Paul, the thing does not employ valves.;):) Enjoy!
It is a departure for me Any as I usually prefer valved output stages on DACs (accurate or not) but this is the exception. Been enjoying it all afternoon as I work..A zero-fatigue SS player for sure.
Very nice, Paul... Love Accuphase gear! :stalks:
Out of interest, what's the clear perspex box, underneath the player, shown in the first pic? :)
Anyway, I'm sure you'll be in for a few late night listening sessions - enjoy!
Marco.
Very nice, Paul... Love Accuphase gear! :stalks:
Out of interest, what's the clear perspex box, underneath the player, shown in the first pic? :)
Anyway, I'm sure you'll be in for a few late night listening sessions - enjoy!
Marco.
Thanks Marco
The clear box is the Hagerman Bugle 2 phonostage built up a few months back and very nice sounding it is too. I have that between the Garrard and the Albarry pre. The Gyro uses the on-board phonostage in the Albarry (with separate head amp).
How would you rate the Albarry phono stage against the Bugle2 Paul?
It's better than the Hagerman but not night and day better. The Hagerman runs some silly expensive phonostages close Neil. The Albarry has slightly better resolution and channel separation and is exceptionally refined. It has more overall polish, but you pay for that last little bit of performance. The Hagerman delivers 80% of the performance for a small fraction of the cost.
bigmarty
06-02-2014, 18:13
Paul, the Accuphase looks a cracker and I bet your going through all your favorite CDs :)
Marty :D
Paul, the Accuphase looks a cracker and I bet your going through all your favorite CDs :)
Marty :D
Got it in one!
One issue that's cropped up is that I have one CD that it doesn't seem to like. It has some scratches but plays fine on the droplet. I often find that when swapping between players so am sure it's not an issue with the Accuphase. I need to get a sratch removal kit for the CDs really as some have been through the mill...
Impossible Paul, the thing does not employ valves.;):) Enjoy!
That made me smile:)
Enjoy. I've never owned an optical drive that reads all the discs I have, least not in a CDP. The BluRay drive in my PC is killer for reading pretty much everything I throw at it unless damaged.
That made me smile:)
Enjoy. I've never owned an optical drive that reads all the discs I have, least not in a CDP. The BluRay drive in my PC is killer for reading pretty much everything I throw at it unless damaged.
The Droplet reads them all Justin. Never, ever had it refuse to read a single disc. Worst I had was a MF X-Ray V8 which only liked about half the discs it was fed from almost new!
The Droplet reads them all Justin. Never, ever had it refuse to read a single disc. Worst I had was a MF X-Ray V8 which only liked about half the discs it was fed from almost new!
It's one reason I'm not keen on CDPs TBH. You know the many other reasons as we've discussed.
Have you got a lens cleaning CD? Might be worth a spin, but whenever I have used mine it has never made a difference, so maybe not!
If the drive is cheap, sling a new one in there for good measure, assuming that is the original, and it is easy to fit. Then you'll know it is good for a good while longer. If you can't be arsed, fine:)
The Grand Wazoo
06-02-2014, 19:55
It's a lovely player Paul.
I came ascloseasthis to buying one, but in the end pushed the finances a bit harder and got the 67 instead. I'm glad I did, but I know I would have been happy as the owner of a 55. If it's any consolation, the 67 uses that plastic remote too!
It's a lovely player Paul.
I came ascloseasthis to buying one, but in the end pushed the finances a bit harder and got the 67 instead. I'm glad I did, but I know I would have been happy as the owner of a 55. If it's any consolation, the 67 uses that plastic remote too!
Its' the later version, the 55V, so has the improved DAC, which by all accounts raises it well above the performance of the original 55. They're very nicely screwed together and tbh, I was thinking of going down the DAC route until this came up. You occasionally see a few 55's and a 67 on the odd occasion but this was the first time I'd seen a 55v come up so it was a chance not to be missed. Lovely players. Glad to know that the cheapskates didn't relegate the entry level model as the only plastic remote version!
As someone who's never owned a CD player that is lovely, looks like the dogs dangleys and I bet it produces sounds that would cause a captain to dash his ship on the rocks , you also have some very nice furniture supporting your system
Cheers
Paul
Here it is...arrived safe and sound today!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7914_zpsedaa982b.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_7916_zps6f4faa23.jpg
That looks just gorgeous - do they make one with a black finish? For a used item it appears to be in immaculate condition.
Deeply envious, well done!
That looks just gorgeous - do they make one with a black finish? For a used item it appears to be in immaculate condition.
Deeply envious, well done!
Hi Barry
the casing's black but the front plate is a silvery-champaign colour. Must admit I've not seen one in black. It arrived in its original box, with papers and looks/feels like brand new so it's been well looked after.
That is one sublime player in every respect. Nice one!
I've never owned an optical drive that reads all the discs I have, least not in a CDP. The BluRay drive in my PC is killer for reading pretty much everything I throw at it unless damaged.
So is mine. I have on occasion used EAC on the PC to read a damaged disc (it will try over and over again and use all of the error correction capability) and then burn a CD-R. That works well except for one Porcupine Tree disc that has too many errors on it. It looks perfect but won't play properly.
Accuphase kit is nice. Love some of their power amps visually. I think you need to pick up one of these, Paul. $10,000 might get you a 2nd hand one on Audiogon, LOL. Then bring it round here to see how well it spanks my speakers:) Supposedly 60 Watts class A but actually does 100 Watts into 8 Ohms. Yummy.
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/mac_room/imgs/5/8/58e2f683.jpg
That does look stunning Justin but perfectly happy with the Albarrys which do everything so effortlessly and naturally. Similar specs to the Accuphase...sadly I'll never be able to fund something like that Accu, but it's on the radar for the future just in case ;)
Lovely looking CD player. Accuphase seem to be one of the favourite choices of the true cognoscenti. I wish more people would get into streaming so that the price of players like this drops to peanuts and we could all have a go ;)
The Grand Wazoo
08-02-2014, 11:55
You'd better save up for the big monos really.
Lovely looking CD player. Accuphase seem to be one of the favourite choices of the true cognoscenti. I wish more people would get into streaming so that the price of players like this drops to peanuts and we could all have a go ;)
It's one of those pieces I've always regarded as aspirational on sound quality Martin, just never been able to justify the expenditure until now. Had my eye on a few Accu models for some years but none have been the spec I've had in mind and all have been way over budget. Saw the CDP at the right price and had to snap it up as I know I'd have regretted letting it pass by. I'm not into this "streaming is better" argument as it's a non argument for me as a decent CDP give me everything I personally need.
A little more extended listening and the strengths are becoming a little more apparent. The main differences between a majority of players seem to be in details such as noise floor, detail retrieval, channel separation and one of the most natural sounding frequency responses I've ever heard from a cd spinner. Try as I might to point a finger at some form of subtle colouration, it really is hard to. No one area dominates. Bass is a little better defined than the Droplet, and it has a more honest, natural mid range portrayal. The HF is where it seems set apart from other players. Its not bright at all, lacks any form of obvious "digital graininess" (a made up term I know but one people understand subjectively speaking) yet you can pick out studio reverb on tracks that are clearly in the recording that no other player I've heard manages to do. It's the minutia of this detail combined with the smooth analogue-like playback which encourages you to go through your CD collection discovering things that you never heard before. Paired with the Rhapsody speakers, sound staging is simply incredible. This pairing seems to put you not just at the studio, or live event at a distance, but right in there with the mix, close up and personal. For sheer scale, hooked up with the Fidelios, it's pretty epic!
Its addictive. I can see myself hanging on to this for many many years. If anyone has ever doubted that its a wise move to invest in a CDP these days, don't hesitate. it has an excellent transport and an superb 24 bit linear DAC so is as good as any stand alone transport or DAC I've yet used. Laser assemblies and transports are also still available (this player's only 6 years young so I should hope so).
Spectral Morn
08-02-2014, 16:49
Nice one Paul, always wanted to hear an Accuphase CD player but the opportunity never presented itself. I recently dipped my toe into buying an Esoteric transport and DAC - never heard Esoteric before either - but so far life has kept me busy so haven't had much chance to sit and listen yet.
Regards Neil
Nice one Paul, always wanted to hear an Accuphase CD player but the opportunity never presented itself. I recently dipped my toe into buying an Esoteric transport and DAC - never heard Esoteric before either - but so far life has kept me busy so haven't had much chance to sit and listen yet.
Regards Neil
Funnily enough Neil, the Esoteric DAC was also on my radar, but I've rarely seen anything around within the budget I'd set.
The Black Adder
08-02-2014, 22:06
Congrats Paul.
That is a serious bit of kit... Love the sound of those players. Maybe one day for me! ... lol
I also love the X03-SE - I've promised myself one before I'm 90! :lol:
Latest addition to the stable: Nagoaka MP-500
Only several hours on it but already opening out nicely. This is the smoothest phono cartridge I've ever heard, and not in a dull pipe and slippers way. It has bags of resolution and detail, but doesn't shout about it or get spitty or harsh; just lovely and extended. It's notably the ONLY cart I've ever had that will track all 4 bands of the Hifi News Test LP Bias tracks too. This particular one is being used as a demo cartridge for anyone interested in the latest Nagoakas. I've listened to the MP-50 which was a cracker...this builds on that cartridge with even more refinement. I would say that this cart has rendered almost redundant even thinking about most MC carts short of £1000, its that good (at least to my ears). The ZYX just pips it in the bass stakes, but to be fair, the MP needs another 40 hours on it yet before critical listening. The arm's a Hadcock GH242 Export Cryo and works very well with the MP-500 and Garrard.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_8838_zps5ac8503b.jpg
The dustbug is only there to cover the marks originally left by.....errr....a dustbug!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_8842_zps5defa06f.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_8846_zpsa88e2d4b.jpg
yep +1 the Nagaokas are where it is at with MM cartridges. Even the cheaper ones are special. Are you selling these now Paul?
The Black Adder
29-09-2014, 14:36
+1 Even the MP10 is a decent cart.
yep +1 the Nagaokas are where it is at with MM cartridges. Even the cheaper ones are special. Are you selling these now Paul?
Hi Martin
I've just been appointed by Nagaoka (Europe) to sell the complete range but held off agreeing to do so until I'd heard a few of their carts, especially the MP-500. I've not been as impressed since listening to the 2M Bronze/Black carts from Ortofon but was unable to offer any discount on those, so have been looking for a worthy alternatives, and the Nagaoka's tick all the right boxes. Stunning cartridges and some real world sensible options for all budgets too, hence I will be stocking these. I want to give this one at least 50 hours before a full critical appraisal (I bought this one at RRP before agreeing to stock any of their products as I wanted to hear for myself what they were like and to evaluate things like tracking etc. So far, it hasn't disappointed).
+1 Even the MP10 is a decent cart.
Now replaced by the MP-100 Joe, but yes, a cracking cart as is the MP-110.
Hi Martin
I've just been appointed by Nagaoka (Europe) to sell the complete range but held off agreeing to do so until I'd heard a few of their carts, especially the MP-500. I've not been as impressed since listening to the 2M Bronze/Black carts from Ortofon but was unable to offer any discount on those, so have been looking for a worthy alternatives, and the Nagaoka's tick all the right boxes. Stunning cartridges and some real world sensible options for all budgets too, hence I will be stocking these. I want to give this one at least 50 hours before a full critical appraisal (I bought this one at RRP before agreeing to stock any of their products as I wanted to hear for myself what they were like and to evaluate things like tracking etc. So far, it hasn't disappointed).
Good news, I know where to come then for a stylus replacement. I bought my first one in 1993 - the MP30 - (it had sat on the shelf in the dealership since 1979!). A few years ago I got an MP11 and remembered how good they were so then got an MP50 and stuck an MP500 stylus in it. I find the Ortofons a little bit mechanical in comparison, although still good in general terms. Nags just are not well known enough or they would be more popular.
Don't mind trialling one for a few years for you :eyebrows:
Good news, I know where to come then for a stylus replacement. I bought my first one in 1993 - the MP30 - (it had sat on the shelf in the dealership since 1979!). A few years ago I got an MP11 and remembered how good they were so then got an MP50 and stuck an MP500 stylus in it. I find the Ortofons a little bit mechanical in comparison, although still good in general terms. Nags just are not well known enough or they would be more popular.
I agree with that Martin. They seem to get out of the way and just get on and play music without sounding too "hifi". In fact superbly "musical" may be a hackneyed old term but it's still the best one to describe their overall presentation. Not many carts allow that sense of non fatiguing musical immersion but with bags of detail in quite the same way. Ortofons can sound analytical but are very fussy on capacitative loading. With the right loading, they're incredibly good but it takes a bit of playing around to get them there.
Following my recent hifi clear-out (£1000's sold off as space & finances needed plus I didn't see any point to the accumulation of so much kit), I have stream-lined and returned to an integrated, and very nice it sounds too. "Nice" is not a term I'd use to describe its sound though. "Big", "Grand", "Dynamic", "Punchy" and "Refined" are though. KT77 based output stage in push-pull configuration, Class A/B. None of the lushness associated with soft or overdriven valve amps, this one is remarkably neutral. What it has in spades is deep, textured bass response; it digs deeper than any previous valve amp I've previously had in the system and remains very composed. A very well designed circuit using high quality parts throughout and it sounds like it. Only changes since I bought this were to remove the NOS Seimens driver and phase inverter valves and change them for gold pin JJ 802s and gold pin ECC81 valves which I much prefer.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9074_zpsc4a0c73e.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9077_zpsa0977806.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9078_zps7214d0ba.jpg
jandl100
21-11-2014, 12:53
Coo - that amp looks the biz, Paul. :drool:
Firebottle
21-11-2014, 12:53
:stalks: That's got statement looks as well.
What guided you to this particular amp?
:cool: Alan
:stalks: That's got statement looks as well.
What guided you to this particular amp?
:cool: Alan
Two things really Alan: firstly I needed a well designed and made amp as part of a reference system for demos. It needed to be neutral and sound good at all volume levels, plus have the ability to drive my speakers without running into distortion.
Secondly, I'd already decided on a return to valves as the Class A operation at lower volumes helps perceived sound staging and dynamics at low listening levels, plus I've given up on trying to explain or justify the preference for the way a GOOD valve amp treats the mid range, just that a decent one always seems to sound better to me than even a good SS design in the mids.
Once I'd made that decision, I researched (and auditioned) a wide variety of valve amps. I have always been intrigued by Emille's design and build philosophy which is no to make compromises in the quality of signal path components where they matter, attention to detail internally bordering on the fanatical and on a substantial chassis design. Transformers are also wound for ultra wide bandwidth and very low distortion. This one came up at the right price just a few years old in as-new condition from someone I know, so I took a calculated risk and bought it as a pretty safe bet, which as it transpires, it was. Stunning sounding and a superb match with the rest of the system
It does make quite a statement physically and weighs far more than the manual suggests (bizarrely)! It weight in close to 80lbs on our scales so was a two person lift into position. Biasing is a doddle and KT77s can be substituted for any EL34 type.
Coo - that amp looks the biz, Paul. :drool:
You're welcome to a return visit Jerry to have a listen. You also have to hear the Rhapsodys since both the standard and SE crossover version development has been completed. It will be an eye (and ear) opener for you (and I'm confident about that).
I also have a new CDP in the system which might be of interest. Very analogue sounding too...
CDP:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9087_zpsdf3d2878.jpg
Sat modestly out of sight in the cabinet. I wasn't wholly convinced on initial listen but after several hours of some component or other stabilising, the sound just grew more analogue-like and it really is as good as any player, at any cost, I have had in the system:
Rega Apollo R.
I had the original Planet CDP which I also liked, albeit it was rolled off at the top end and lacked much detail. Not so the Apollo R. Very balanced top to bottom and hard to see really why anyone would want for more in a CDP. It's also very well priced compared with the competition. S/PDIF and optical outputs so can be used as a stand alone transport though why anyone would want to do that beats me. The DAC is very similar to the high end stand alone Rega DAC ( think it's based on the same chip).
With a decent CD, there's little difference to any of my vinyl rigs bar the lower noise floor, so praise indeed.
southall-1998
21-11-2014, 14:25
I'm an owner of the original Rega Planet CDP.
I agree on it being somewhat rolled off at the top. But it certainly plays music in its good own way!
The Apollo-R is deffo on my want list!
S.
It shares the Planet's ability to get out of the way of the music Shane to allow hours of fatigue free listening yet with all the detail captured. Bass is also tauter and deeper than I remember it with the Planet but subjective memory isn't the most reliable of things! If it's on your shortlist, it's a bit of a bargain for the outlay tbh. I really can't see (or hear) what much more expensive players bring to the party and not that long ago, I had a different opinion. Rega have done it again with yet another outstanding component.
brian2957
21-11-2014, 16:42
Love the amp Paul . Absolutely beautiful and I assume it sounds as good as it looks . Sometimes I still lived in Bristol :( I'm a big Rega fan , I'm a DAC owner and I also had a BrioR amp which I sold to finance another purchase ( which I soon regretted ) I've never owned one of their CD players . I seem to be going backward a little . I love my server , however I still have all of my CDs and have a hankering for a good disc spinner at the moment . This may be the one :)
Are we going to see some more of your wonderful speaker designs BTW ?
Love the amp Paul . Absolutely beautiful and I assume it sounds as good as it looks . Sometimes I still lived in Bristol :( I'm a big Rega fan , I'm a DAC owner and I also had a BrioR amp which I sold to finance another purchase ( which I soon regretted ) I've never owned one of their CD players . I seem to be going backward a little . I love my server , however I still have all of my CDs and have a hankering for a good disc spinner at the moment . This may be the one :)
Are we going to see some more of your wonderful speaker designs BTW ?
Hi Brian
I think you'd like the Apollo R...should be on everyone's "must listen" list if a new CDP is on the cards.
Speaker-wise...funnily enough there is a new one brewing. Rumour has it that the workshop may be resounding to speaker building next week as a start is made on the new Reference Raptor stand mount. That depends on the outcome of other issues though. Whatever happens, the design is completed and the components are sat here waiting for their cabinets ;)
brian2957
21-11-2014, 19:48
Looking forward to that Paul . I always enjoy your speaker build threads . I'm sure they'll be fantastic :) Best of luck BTW .
Sovereign
21-11-2014, 19:57
Hi Brian
I think you'd like the Apollo R...should be on everyone's "must listen" list if a new CDP is on the cards.
Speaker-wise...funnily enough there is a new one brewing. Rumour has it that the workshop may be resounding to speaker building next week as a start is made on the new Reference Raptor stand mount. That depends on the outcome of other issues though. Whatever happens, the design is completed and the components are sat here waiting for their cabinets ;)
Sounds good
Ali Tait
21-11-2014, 20:27
Two things really Alan: firstly I needed a well designed and made amp as part of a reference system for demos. It needed to be neutral and sound good at all volume levels, plus have the ability to drive my speakers without running into distortion.
Secondly, I'd already decided on a return to valves as the Class A operation at lower volumes helps perceived sound staging and dynamics at low listening levels, plus I've given up on trying to explain or justify the preference for the way a GOOD valve amp treats the mid range, just that a decent one always seems to sound better to me than even a good SS design in the mids.
Once I'd made that decision, I researched (and auditioned) a wide variety of valve amps. I have always been intrigued by Emille's design and build philosophy which is no to make compromises in the quality of signal path components where they matter, attention to detail internally bordering on the fanatical and on a substantial chassis design. Transformers are also wound for ultra wide bandwidth and very low distortion. This one came up at the right price just a few years old in as-new condition from someone I know, so I took a calculated risk and bought it as a pretty safe bet, which as it transpires, it was. Stunning sounding and a superb match with the rest of the system
It does make quite a statement physically and weighs far more than the manual suggests (bizarrely)! It weight in close to 80lbs on our scales so was a two person lift into position. Biasing is a doddle and KT77s can be substituted for any EL34 type.
Pah! A lightweight then.. The Mr Liang 845 amp I used to have was 110 pounds, and I lived up two flights of stairs at the time (on my own). Took it to a couple of Owstons..
Not sure if going up or going down the stairs carrying it was worse..
walpurgis
21-11-2014, 21:28
Pah! A lightweight then.. The Mr Liang 845 amp I used to have was 110 pounds, and I lived up two flights of stairs at the time (on my own). Took it to a couple of Owstons..
Not sure if going up or going down the stairs carrying it was worse..
That's quite cheap really. :)
southall-1998
21-11-2014, 21:46
Good one, Geoff :D
S.
Pah! A lightweight then.. The Mr Liang 845 amp I used to have was 110 pounds, and I lived up two flights of stairs at the time (on my own). Took it to a couple of Owstons..
Not sure if going up or going down the stairs carrying it was worse..
What was it made from...cast iron?:stalks: With the Emille, it's more the bulk than the weight making it a cumbersome lift plus much of the weight is off centre due to the (huge) transformers. Wouldn't want to drop it on my toe anyway. The amp might survive a drop...my toe wouldn't...
southall-1998
22-11-2014, 16:13
What va size transformer does the Emille use?
S.
What va size transformer does the Emille use?
S.
Good question. The answer is I don't know because I haven't taken it apart to find out, but the transformers are a major factor in the overall weight of this amp and it's a heavy beast. All I know for sure is they're all custom wound in house by Emille Labs (in the case of the output transformers, for wide bandwidth and very low distortion). You can read a little about it here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/emille6/4.html
The amp also notably runs silent...dead silent. No transformer hum or other hum even through the sensitive Rhapsody speakers (close to 92dB/1w/1m). I suspect that they (the transformers that is) are a major factor in the superb sound quality.
Floyddroid
30-11-2014, 15:25
Terrific system.
Terrific system.
Thanks Steve. A picture of the system as a whole as it now stands. A bit cramped/messy at the minute. You can get a sense of the scale of the amp from the picture. Boxes in the centre are crossovers for customers awaiting dispatch. Boxes within Rhapsody stands are the SE version crossovers. (These can be made to match any Rhapsody speaker finish). System sounds better than ever and subject to no more wholesale need to clear kit for reinvestment, we'll probably stick with this set up now. Only one downside is that the listening position is pretty much in a bass dip point (measured 3dB down compared with 1.5 metres forward of this or just behind the seating). It's a living room as well as a demo room, so that's the compromise we're happy to live with as there's plenty enough oomph in the lower registers anyway.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9102_zps1584cef0.jpg
Sovereign
01-12-2014, 12:19
Thanks Steve. A picture of the system as a whole as it now stands. A bit cramped/messy at the minute. You can get a sense of the scale of the amp from the picture. Boxes in the centre are crossovers for customers awaiting dispatch. Boxes within Rhapsody stands are the SE version crossovers. (These can be made to match any Rhapsody speaker finish). System sounds better than ever and subject to no more wholesale need to clear kit for reinvestment, we'll probably stick with this set up now. Only one downside is that the listening position is pretty much in a bass dip point (measured 3dB down compared with 1.5 metres forward of this or just behind the seating). It's a living room as well as a demo room, so that's the compromise we're happy to live with as there's plenty enough oomph in the lower registers anyway.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_9102_zps1584cef0.jpg
Can we have less gorgeous pornography on this site please, pictures like these are stopping me from getting on with my work:stalks:
Pornography? Oh I understand - it's those see-through cross-over networks!
Must be some sort of naked crossover fetish Barry :o
LittleTone
03-12-2014, 06:01
Paul,
What are those other speakers in the photo ?
Paul,
What are those other speakers in the photo ?
Hi Anthony...hope you're well!
They're Verity Audio Rienzi 3-way two-box loudspeakers, a Canadian made design and very popular State-side. They've been exhibited at several UK shows in recent years and are popular with people who value musical enjoyment without the usual analytical fatiguing sound that many speakers marketed as "accurate" seem to display. these are accurate (the top monitors used in many recording studios) but as a whole, they sound very engaging. A much bigger sound than their size would have you think. They have genuine bass extension.
More info here: http://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/review-verity-audio-rienzi-meets.html
Here: http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/verity_rienzi.htm
and here: http://www.verityaudio.com/images/pdf/brochure/brochure_rienzi_web_ang.pdf
Sound wise, think Living Voice Auditorium IBX but with greater accuracy, more bass slam, wider imaging and more realism.
Their primary function is as a direct comparison with the Rhapsodys for people visiting for a demo. Outside of their own system, they need a benchmark, and the Veritys are about as good as it gets this side of £10K. Their RRP was I think £8,500. These are just 2 years old and mint.
Most visitors (all?) have preferred the Rhapsodys....thankfully!
Not been updated in a while so I thought I'd share a few changes:
New hifi system rack, which was completed just this morning :)
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1346_zpsenck4ieb.jpg
(I aim to offer these to anyone who wants one by the way...each tier can be custom made to your dimensions.)
Note the absence of the Emille valve amp! A customer fell in love with it and asked if it was available to take away. As I have a rather nice Radford being assembled by Will at the moment, I gave in and sold the Emille.
New phono stage for the Michell: TRON Convergence (Hagerman Cornet sitting underneath it):
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1362_zps8qfahthq.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1352_zpspp6zcpkt.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1364_zpsovxysnko.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1369_zps2jcvdvb1.jpg
The aim was to assemble a system largely made by UK artisan manufactures, or mainstream UK made kit, so we have Michell, SME, Garrard, Hadcock, TRON, Radford (to come!), a TRON preamp (to come!), RFC (speakers/cables/hifi furniture), Rega. There's a few bits and pieces to come but its starting to take shape and even with the humble Denon PMA355UK doing service, sounding none too shabby.
brian2957
10-12-2016, 11:59
Very nice Paul and , as ever , the workmanship is exemplary:)
Thanks Brian.
Got fed up messing about with cupboards and doors plus the hifi cabinet basically acts like a giant resonance box, hence a return to open shelves. These are made from very dense oak, so very weighty and self nicely damped. Legs are Mahogany. I would normally have used Walnut but had the opportunity of a Mahogany off-cut so that was used in the manufacture instead.
Like the integrated record store Paul. Needing to get mine out, or at least some of them myself. Sweet system
walpurgis
10-12-2016, 12:09
All looks very tasty Paul. You'll get a few takers for those.
The Radford should be interesting. You can't beat a Denon amp as a back up. They always surprise me pleasantly.
I agree Geoff. It's been doing AV duties for a fair few years here on a daily basis and is a great little workhorse. It hardens up a little at upper frequencies, but never that badly. The Radford is a bit of a one-off so I believe. A "standard" STA25 with quite a few additions and improvements to older models. I'm being a bit of a guinea-pig on this one, but not reluctantly as knowing Will, it will be very good. I do miss the Emille. Up until now, it has been the best sounding amp I've owned and by some margin. This, though, is my final destination system bar a few possible future changes of tonearm/cart perhaps, so to arrive at a system largely designed and built by just 3 or 4 people is both remarkable and pleasing.
RobbieGong
10-12-2016, 12:37
Beautiful hi-fi rack Paul.
I love wood racks.
Beautiful hi-fi rack Paul.
I love wood racks.
Thanks Robbie. Yes, I'm not too fond of glass and chrome personally.
Here's a few of the whole set up minus "amps-in-progress"
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1379_zpsfmy7kbe2.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1382_zpsukxzwtzz.jpg]
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1386_zps87xzjkxo.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1372_zps7povhzaf.jpg
Them there's Christmas tuning cones sat atop the speakers. They make everything sound more "Festive".
You got rid of that Rega Cd player then Paul?
Its still in there Martin. For how much longer I don't know. Fancy a change....perhaps an Opus 21?
brian2957
10-12-2016, 13:16
I bet that this is a mighty system to listen to Paul , helped by the festive tuning cones of course :D
Lovely listening space and system, Paul :cool:
Out of interest, did you find much benefit in externalising the crossovers in your Tannoys? I've always wondered about doing that, but then thought that any benefits, in terms of vibration control, would be negated by the effect of the signal path being complicated with more cables and connections...
Marco.
There's a definite advantage to externalising them Marco and only one additional connection which in this case has zero discernable negative impact on SQ. All connections are high quality including new 4 pin gold plated and sprung driver connectors. You remove things like inductors from internal cabinet resonance and electromagnetc fields. Overall cable lengths are about the same. I wouldn't go back to internalised ones for these big DCs now. You'll have to get down for a listen :cool:
That's interesting then. I'll defo be down sometime in the new year :cool:
Marco.
jandl100
12-12-2016, 08:15
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1382_zpsukxzwtzz.jpg]
Very nice, Paul.
Neater, doubtless better sounding, and much easier to get at the kit than before. :thumbsup:
-- t'wasn't easy leaning past the speaker to get at the gear when it was enclosed in a cabinet and tucked into the corner! I was always scared I'd damage the speaker veneer!
Are the speakers nearer the room corners now?
Audio Al
12-12-2016, 09:01
A lot different from when I visited Paul , looks excellent ;)
Very nice, Paul.
Neater, doubtless better sounding, and much easier to get at the kit than before. :thumbsup:
-- t'wasn't easy leaning past the speaker to get at the gear when it was enclosed in a cabinet and tucked into the corner! I was always scared I'd damage the speaker veneer!
Are the speakers nearer the room corners now?
Thanks Jerry
Yes, it is less cluttered, much easier to get at and the speakers are slightly farther apart. I have to say it all sounds better, partially because I hadn't realised just what a sounding box that cabinet was...the resonance inside it was amplified by the thin sidewalls and all of that was transmitted to the kit. The rack I've designed more to sink any vibes into the mass of the plinth. It weighs close on a hundredweight and a half as I've used the very densest 40mm thick, 20mm premium oak battenboard that I could find. It took two of us to lift the 3m section used to make this rack. Each layer is coupled to the next so that the whole mass is used to sink vibrations, except the base which is isolated from the floor. Theory is one thing, but in practice, the toons do actually sound all the better for it.
I haven't finished yet though. As you can see from the Trade section, Will is building me an STA25, and I have also commissioned a TRON Seven preamp from Graham at GT audio, having sold the prototype passive. In theory, it ought to have worked well with the Radford. In practice, an active was better. The whole system should be completed within the next 2 to 3 weeks. The opnly other changes are that I'll be adding another tonearm to the Garrard to play about with other MM cartridges and building a proper enclosure for the Hagerman Cornet, as well as upgrading a few components which lie within the signal path. I am also minded to play about with a few DACs as the Rega has an S/PDIF output. Good as the Rega on-board DAC is, it is not the world's most detailed. Its a bit too buttery even for me! It also lacks the imnage depth of any of the vinyl rigs. The Michell/SME/ZYX/TRON combination is astonishing in detail retrieval and image depth, very holographic as some might say.
Very nice, Paul.
Neater, doubtless better sounding, and much easier to get at the kit than before. :thumbsup:
-- t'wasn't easy leaning past the speaker to get at the gear when it was enclosed in a cabinet and tucked into the corner! I was always scared I'd damage the speaker veneer!
Are the speakers nearer the room corners now?
Thanks Jerry
Yes, it is less cluttered, much easier to get at and the speakers are slightly farther apart. I have to say it all sounds better, partially because I hadn't realised just what a sounding box that cabinet was...the resonance inside it was amplified by the thin sidewalls and all of that was transmitted to the kit. The rack I've designed more to sink any vibes into the mass of the plinth. It weighs close on a hundredweight and a half as I've used the very densest 40mm thick, 20mm premium oak battenboard that I could find. It took two of us to lift the 3m section used to make this rack. Each layer is coupled to the next so that the whole mass is used to sink vibrations, except the base which is isolated from the floor. Theory is one thing, but in practice, the toons do actually sound all the better for it.
I haven't finished yet though. As you can see from the Trade section, Will is building me an STA25 Series 5, and I have also commissioned a TRON Seven preamp from Graham at GT audio, having sold the prototype passive. In theory, it ought to have worked well with the Radford. In practice, an active was better. The whole system should be completed within the next 2 to 3 weeks. The only other changes are that I'll be adding another tonearm to the Garrard to play about with other MM cartridges and building a proper enclosure for the Hagerman Cornet, as well as upgrading a few components which lie within the signal path. I am also minded to play about with a few DACs as the Rega has an S/PDIF output. Good as the Rega on-board DAC is, it is not the world's most detailed. Its a bit too buttery even for me! It also lacks the image depth of any of the vinyl rigs. The Michell/SME/ZYX/TRON combination is astonishing in detail retrieval and image depth, very holographic as some might say.
A lot different from when I visited Paul , looks excellent ;)
Cheers Al. They system's much tidier since then, but I do miss that big Emille!
The doorbell rang this morning and a nice man from DPD handed me over a box:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1408_zpspykwalhr.jpg
Inside was a bright, shiny new DAC. I have gone over to the Dark Side after Jerry did his Darth Vader impression and said to me in a dream "you must buy one of these...it's hi Rez and everythink! May the force be with you"
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1409_zpstr7raufl.jpg
I saw that a few people, including Jerry really rated these little DACs, and did a bit of research. For the money I simply don't know how they do it. You could barely buy the parts for what they're asking for the thing delivered!
Ok, it doesn't fit with my "BoB" system (Best of British) but, try buying a good DAC for anything like this in the UK and you wont. I've been impressed with more inexpensive DACs that I have with pricier fare, so in an effort to wake up the Rega into providing a bit more detail and image depth/dynamics, I thought I'd give this a go and use the Rega as transport. It seems reasonably well made but internally could have done with a case twice as large as it's all a bit crammed in there! Still it uses decent ventillation slots top and bottom. The only error I can spot in implementaion is the selector switch. point it to "Coaxial" for the input and it does nothing. Point it to the top (off?) position and it wires in the coalial input! Besides that, everything is nicely laid out, switches and case work are pretty decent quality as is printing. It even uses a decent R-core mains transformer!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1411_zpscqopiiwc.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1413_zpsakur8trq.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/IMG_1414_zps4qilkzrn.jpg
I wont give you my impressions out of the box as that would be unfair, so will leave that until after Christmas when it'll have had a few hours on it but "so far, so good" is all you're getting.
It can be configured as a preamp (two inputs for CD/Aux) and has two outputs. One used the valve buffer and one doesn't. I've chosen to use it with.
Audio Al
16-12-2016, 10:05
Thanks Jerry
Yes, it is less cluttered, much easier to get at and the speakers are slightly farther apart. I have to say it all sounds better, partially because I hadn't realised just what a sounding box that cabinet was...the resonance inside it was amplified by the thin sidewalls and all of that was transmitted to the kit. The rack I've designed more to sink any vibes into the mass of the plinth. It weighs close on a hundredweight and a half as I've used the very densest 40mm thick, 20mm premium oak battenboard that I could find. It took two of us to lift the 3m section used to make this rack. Each layer is coupled to the next so that the whole mass is used to sink vibrations, except the base which is isolated from the floor. Theory is one thing, but in practice, the toons do actually sound all the better for it.
I haven't finished yet though. As you can see from the Trade section, Will is building me an STA25 Series 5, and I have also commissioned a TRON Seven preamp from Graham at GT audio, having sold the prototype passive. In theory, it ought to have worked well with the Radford. In practice, an active was better. The whole system should be completed within the next 2 to 3 weeks. The only other changes are that I'll be adding another tonearm to the Garrard to play about with other MM cartridges and building a proper enclosure for the Hagerman Cornet, as well as upgrading a few components which lie within the signal path. I am also minded to play about with a few DACs as the Rega has an S/PDIF output. Good as the Rega on-board DAC is, it is not the world's most detailed. Its a bit too buttery even for me! It also lacks the image depth of any of the vinyl rigs. The Michell/SME/ZYX/TRON combination is astonishing in detail retrieval and image depth, very holographic as some might say.
Cheers Al. They system's much tidier since then, but I do miss that big Emille!
Yes the big Emille! looked like a small nuclear reactor :)
There's a definite advantage to externalising them Marco and only one additional connection which in this case has zero discernable negative impact on SQ. All connections are high quality including new 4 pin gold plated and sprung driver connectors. You remove things like inductors from internal cabinet resonance and electromagnetc fields. Overall cable lengths are about the same. I wouldn't go back to internalised ones for these big DCs now. You'll have to get down for a listen :cool:
Can you tell me if it's best to have the external crossover close to the speaker, say on the back of the cabinet, or can you have it on the floor without any sonic losses? I guess what I'm asking is whether the length of cable AFTER the crossover needs to be minimised? I'm planning to experiment and hope to benefit form the knowledge here rather than trial and error.
The lights dimmed when it was turned on sometimes :lol:
Can you tell me if it's best to have the external crossover close to the speaker, say on the back of the cabinet, or can you have it on the floor without any sonic losses? I guess what I'm asking is whether the length of cable AFTER the crossover needs to be minimised? I'm planning to experiment and hope to benefit form the knowledge here rather than trial and error.
Just keep the crossovers as close to the speakers as possible. Losses are just speaker cable losses which are very minor in comparison with say inductor losses in most crossovers. If you limit crossover to drive unit length to no more than 2m it will not affect the filter or the sound quality at all. Not one little bit. However, having the crossover remote, and driving say 5 or more metres of cable is not a great idea. For those who think it may sound better that way, well there's something wrong then with the crossover design in the first place. The idea is not to introduce reactive or non reactive losses that affect the transfer function of the filter. Just work on closer to the speaker is the better option and you won't go wrong Andy.
Many thanks, Paul. I couldn't have asked for a clearer answer. On the floor beside the speaker stands was what I had in mind. Great to know I'm fine doing just that :)
Update on the DAC:
Surprisingly, at the price, it does manage to better the Rega's own internal DAC whilst offering a great solution for streaming audio from Spotify or wherever. Noise floor is impressively low, even when the valve output is selected, and there's no euphonic or rolled off presentation with the valve output. The Rega is now only being used as a transport.
There's also not a lot of difference that I can detect between the all SS or valve output. I think that the valve setting just has it for me. It just seems a little smoother.
In summary, it's a relatively well made DAC, even if the instructions are garbage and the description was incorrect (stating that it can be used as a stand alone preamp....it can't unless you have a digital source with its own volume control or unless you specify that you want the volume wired up with the DAC circuit before ordering). The headphone amp is a bonus and very nice too. The volume control only works with the headphones (not the DAC although it can be configured that way...better not to though unless you specifically want it as a preamp) and the headphone socket does not mute the speaker output despite the instructions saying otherwise. I can forgive the misleading instructions and description though for the sound quality. It is detailed without ever getting bright or harsh, allows a little more resolution than the Rega internal DAC (welcomed). Its a cracking little DAC for the money. How long it lasts, I'll have to see but it does seem remarkable vfm, and it says something when it's holding its own within a £20K + system. Whilst the rest of the system is most definitely in the" Best of British" vain, I'll allow this little usurper a visa to enter that system and stay for as long as it wants :D
There will be a further update today...anyone guess what the revised photos might show? (another newcomer to the fold arrives via private carriage later today ;) )
There will be a further update today...anyone guess what the revised photos might show? (another newcomer to the fold arrives via private carriage later today ;) )
Erm... a lovely Radford perhaps??
jandl100
21-12-2016, 10:28
Update on the DAC:
Surprisingly, at the price, it does manage to better the Rega's own internal DAC whilst offering a great solution for streaming audio from Spotify or wherever. Noise floor is impressively low, even when the valve output is selected, and there's no euphonic or rolled off presentation with the valve output. The Rega is now only being used as a transport.
There's also not a lot of difference that I can detect between the all SS or valve output. I think that the valve setting just has it for me. It just seems a little smoother.
In summary, it's a relatively well made DAC, even if the instructions are garbage and the description was incorrect (stating that it can be used as a stand alone preamp....it can't unless you have a digital source with its own volume control or unless you specify that you want the volume wired up with the DAC circuit before ordering). The headphone amp is a bonus and very nice too. The volume control only works with the headphones (not the DAC although it can be configured that way...better not to though unless you specifically want it as a preamp) and the headphone socket does not mute the speaker output despite the instructions saying otherwise. I can forgive the misleading instructions and description though for the sound quality. It is detailed without ever getting bright or harsh, allows a little more resolution than the Rega internal DAC (welcomed). Its a cracking little DAC for the money. How long it lasts, I'll have to see but it does seem remarkable vfm, and it says something when it's holding its own within a £20K + system. Whilst the rest of the system is most definitely in the" Best of British" vain, I'll allow this little usurper a visa to enter that system and stay for as long as it wants :D
There will be a further update today...anyone guess what the revised photos might show? (another newcomer to the fold arrives via private carriage later today ;) )
Coo, I am glad that the little Chinese DAC is doing its stuff for you, Paul.
I'd be happy if this were my last DAC, and after trying many a DAC up to around the £2k rrp level (including the Rega which it easily beat imo, and also come to think of it, a £4k Lampizator Level 4 which I had in for review a few years ago and to which I would be happy to grant 2nd best status :eyebrows:) I haven't heard better and have heard a LOT worse!
I have no plans at all to replace it - been there, done that - tried and failed!
Mine came hardwired (internally soldered) with the volume control applied to the analog outputs as well as the headphone socket.
Soundwise I have not heard a DAC with better rez and naturally presented detail. Soundstaging and image focus is genuinely top class, imo.
I use it with the solid state outputs, but I agree there is little to choose between those and the valve output stage. I tried rolling a few valves, and small sq improvements are to be had, but I prefer the ss output anyway.
It's also, ridiculously, the best headphone amp I have had - noticeably better drive, control and tonality than a Musical Fidelity X-Can that I have atm.
Mine's in a £25k+ system and is a keeper.
It's crazy - you can buy these brand new from a German ebay dealer for about £150. :mental: :)
Audio Al
21-12-2016, 10:29
I know , its one of these
18897
I know , its one of these
18897
Very close Al!
Coo, I am glad that the little Chinese DAC is doing its stuff for you, Paul.
I'd be happy if this were my last DAC, and after trying many a DAC up to around the £2k rrp level (including the Rega which it easily beat imo, and also come to think of it, a £4k Lampizator Level 4 which I had in for review a few years ago and to which I would be happy to grant 2nd best status ) I haven't heard better and have heard a LOT worse!
I have no plans at all to replace it - been there, done that - tried and failed!
Mine came hardwired (internally soldered) with the volume control applied to the analog outputs as well as the headphone socket.
Soundwise I have not heard a DAC with better rez and naturally presented detail. Soundstaging and image focus is genuinely top class, imo.
I use it with the solid state outputs, but I agree there is little to choose between those and the valve output stage. I tried rolling a few valves, and small sq improvements are to be had, but I prefer the ss output anyway.
It's also, ridiculously, the best headphone amp I have had - noticeably better drive, control and tonality than a Musical Fidelity X-Can that I have atm.
Mine's in a £25k+ system and is a keeper.
It's crazy - you can buy these brand new from a German ebay dealer for about £150.
Yup, it's a belter for the money Jerry and really nicely thought out in the circuit too, which I like. The bonus, is that unlike just about all other cheapies, they've actually used a very nicely specified and made power supply which makes a lot of difference over the usual switching wallwart.
Vinyl remains the mainstay of my system, so it'll never be in any danger of replacing that for SQ (I've reached the stage where I don't care to argue with people about digital bettering vinyl because my ears have yet to confirm that, irrespective of the digital source....I suspect that's because that there just aren't the number of superlatively recorded digital recordings so rubbish in will always = rubbish out, although a few I have come very close, and some are quite exceptional, particularly the Decca Sound recordings). However, I'm with you here Jerry; I can't see me spending any more to replace this little box of tricks as it's that good. Something better I'm sure will come along in the future, as is the way with these things, but for now, it stays :)
Erm... a lovely Radford perhaps??
Could be John ;)
Audio Al
21-12-2016, 15:22
Vinyl remains the mainstay of my system, so it'll never be in any danger of replacing that for SQ (I've reached the stage where I don't care to argue with people about digital bettering vinyl because my ears have yet to confirm that,
:interesting::exactly::yesbruv::christmas::santa:: christmas:
The hifi rack's just sprouted another component:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/IMG_1415_zpsubrymga3.jpg
http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IMG_1420.jpg
http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IMG_1419.jpg
http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IMG_1416.jpg
brian2957
21-12-2016, 19:47
Absolutely gorgeous Paul :eek: What a nice thing to have on your rack . Nice Christmas present mate .
Thanks Brian. It's certainly a perfect match for the RFC Canterburys. Vice-like grip on the bass which is, ermmm, "prodigious"! The detail now that can be stripped out of recordings has to be heard to be believed with the Radford. Every little reverb in the studio can be picked up, every breath of a flautist, and the lingering decay of notes just seem to hang there. Choral music is a delight for the coherence and clarity, and rock music, well, fair to say that we had the windows rattling, along with our stomachs. I think "visceral" best describes the experience.
Just waiting now on the TRON preamplifier which is to follow in a week or two, and I have to sort out the cabling a little tidier. We checked out the effectiveness of the rack today and the way it's designed to sink vibes through its multi-layered very dense construction (all layers bar the base on coupled) reduced felt vibration to almost entirely nothing, nowt, nyada. This has got to have a beneficial effect on anything containing valves, and of course to the CD transport. The clarity of sound now is outstanding. Super-hi-rez without fatigue.
That does look pretty smart.
The Black Adder
21-12-2016, 20:10
Very nice, Paul.
Looks smashing. :)
A very nice match with the Tannoys I must say.
Thanks chaps. I prefer the black finish. It just goes well as a contrast with the Oak and looks a million dollars in the flesh. When I have a little more time, I'll sort a decent photo or two.
walpurgis
21-12-2016, 20:48
Looks really fine Paul. I take it the Radford is giving the Denon a bit of a run for its money. :D
Looks really fine Paul. I take it the Radford is giving the Denon a bit of a run for its money. :D
Just a bit Geoff. The difference is pretty stark....which best describes the Denon's sound come to that. It's funny how our hearing subjectively adjusts. A week or two with the Denon and it was sounding acceptable, even to the point that I was starting to question, without the benefit of an A/B comparison, whether there is much difference between any two competently designed amplifiers of differing architecture. The answer, however, is a resounding "yes". This loudspeaker/amplifier combination has to be the most detailed and revealing of every detail in a recording that I have probably ever heard, and all without a hint of edginess or imbalance. The bass, when on the recording is as clean as a whistle, controlled and deep with real texture. Cello is frighteningly real, as is bass guitar. You can hear voices so distinctly that they no longer are just a series of unique tones, but the breath and emotion, every strain of the vocal chords is exposed, again bringing uncanny realism to them. It will take some adjusting to, as the Emille was more about a larger than life 3-dimensional extravaganza, but it didn't quite manage to pull off the resolution not did it have the same bass grip. The STA25 Series 5, modded as it is just monsters most valve, or SS amps come to that, that I've probably heard at any level or cost. The speakers are simply revealing enough, and dare I say it, for DCs, neutral enough to highlight every single change and reap the benefit of every improvement. It is, without question, a true reference set up in anyone's language in that respect, so I do feel privileged to be able to enjoy that.
I prefer the black finish. It just goes well as a contrast with the Oak and looks a million dollars in the flesh.
I agree, for me the new series 5 in black is the nicest looking of the Radfords, lovely.
Wishing you many happy hours of enjoyment with it Paul, it's a cracker!
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