Record Cleaners

[snuffbox]

I dont have the room for a machine so what is the best economical way of cleaning records.

[peelaaa]

I've used the knosti disco antistat. Downsides are it takes ages to dry when using the supplied fluid. Records remain antistatic for years though.

A 50/50 is isopropyl and distilled water has been recommended in some quarters.

[Jac Hawk]

yep i've got a knosti antistat and it works really well, the liquid you get with it does keep the static down for sure, but may leave a residue on the vinyl, i personally do a 2 stage clean 1st with distilled water containing a few drops of washing up liquid, then with plain distilled water, it's a bit of a faff on but if you don't want to go the whole hog on an RCA it's the next best thing and the results are great too:)

[snuffbox]

Thanks for that,I've ordered one a couple of days ago.

[peelaaa]

yep i've got a knosti antistat and it works really well, the liquid you get with it does keep the static down for sure, but may leave a residue on the vinyl, i personally do a 2 stage clean 1st with distilled water containing a few drops of washing up liquid, then with plain distilled water, it's a bit of a faff on but if you don't want to go the whole hog on an RCA it's the next best thing and the results are great too:)


Do the records dry quickly with that liquid , as i find the antistat liquid takes ages and an overnight dry is often the length of time it takes.

[Jac Hawk]

i do it in the kitchen on the table near to a radiator, the records dry in about 20 minutes

[Riislingen]

I´m using one of KAB record cleaners:

http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm

Folds away nicely after use and provide pretty much the same functionality as one of the full blown ones. Very nice for the money.

[Marco]

Hi Mikkel,

Soz, off-topic, but just a quick one... The CV4035s are superb, so I'll be shipping those Mazdas to you tomorrow! :cool:

Marco.

[Spur07]

I've just ordered 2 knosti antistat's, an extra one for a wash bath. Apparently the fluid it ships with isn't too great, many people use 80/20 distilled/ISO. I'd been getting my LP's cleaned at Sister Ray for £1 a pop but virtually all seem to require multiple cleans which becomes expensive. At least with the Knosti you can give your LP's a proper scrub.

[Patrick Dixon]

I thought the Knosti fluid was good, but because you don't vacuum, you end up with the stylus clearing out the dirt on first play.

I've now bought an Okki Knoki, but I'm still experimenting with the best way of cleaning as the Decca shows up everything in the groove - dirt and all. The Art du Son fluid does seem to get rid of static very effectively though.

[Jac Hawk]

that's why it's best to do a rinse with clean distilled water, it gets rid of any residue from the cleaning agent so your stylus doesn't have to

[ursus262]

Record Revirginizer is also very good. It's like a glue that dries on the surface of the record. You peel it off and the dirt comes away. It's an excellent method of cleaning Vinyl

[snuffbox]

Record Revirginizer is also very good. It's like a glue that dries on the surface of the record. You peel it off and the dirt comes away. It's an excellent method of cleaning Vinyl

Interesting.................................wonder if it would work on the.........
Oh never mind.

[Spur07]

I thought the Knosti fluid was good, but because you don't vacuum, you end up with the stylus clearing out the dirt on first play.

I've now bought an Okki Knoki, but I'm still experimenting with the best way of cleaning as the Decca shows up everything in the groove - dirt and all. The Art du Son fluid does seem to get rid of static very effectively though.

With a second wash bath in place I suppose you could use the Knosti fluid, some people felt it left marks after drying, etc.

Is that a Decca London you got, Patrick?

[Patrick Dixon]

Yes, a 'Blue' that's been rebuilt and re-tipped by John Wright. I have a C4E too but prefer the Blue at the moment, but I will send the C4E to John sometime, and see how I like it when it comes back.

I never tried the Knosti with a water rinse but it sounds like a good idea. The trouble is that you need two really, and then plenty of space to dry the LPs.

[ursus262]

Interesting.................................wonder if it would work on the.........
Oh never mind.

Well, it is an Australian invention.... so I'm not surprised really, what with all those sheep about!

[snuffbox]

Just a thought but would blowing the surface moisture off with a hair dryer quicken the drying time.
Using it without heat of course.

[Jac Hawk]

Like i said in an earlier post, near to a warm radiator works well

[Spur07]

Yes, a 'Blue' that's been rebuilt and re-tipped by John Wright. I have a C4E too but prefer the Blue at the moment, but I will send the C4E to John sometime, and see how I like it when it comes back.

I never tried the Knosti with a water rinse but it sounds like a good idea. The trouble is that you need two really, and then plenty of space to dry the LPs.

very nice Patrick, i've heard good things about the Decca.

some people like to steam clean their vinyl, I got one of those in my loft - I might dig it out.

[Riislingen]

Hi Mikkel,

Soz, off-topic, but just a quick one... The CV4035s are superb, so I'll be shipping those Mazdas to you tomorrow! :cool:

Marco.

Brilliant ! Will keep my eye out for them !

I knew you would love the CV4035´s - they are great aren´t they ?

:eek:

[ninedecks]

I've just ordered 2 knosti antistat's, an extra one for a wash bath. Apparently the fluid it ships with isn't too great, many people use 80/20 distilled/ISO. I'd been getting my LP's cleaned at Sister Ray for £1 a pop but virtually all seem to require multiple cleans which becomes expensive. At least with the Knosti you can give your LP's a proper scrub.

I have done the same. One brand new from Ebay for £29.99 and a second hand unit from Ebay for £23.
I am still using up the fluid supplied by Knosti in the first machine, using distilled water in the second for a rinse.
The vinyl takes 20 minutes to dry but there is nothing to stop you using a lint free drying cloth (Ikea!) to speed up the process.
I have found this to be pretty good at removing grit and grime from charity shop purchases. The distilled water rinse seems to leave the surface clean with no residue showing up on the stylus when playing.
At the moment I am recycling the Knosti fluid by filtering with a new paper coffee filter (being a bit of a scrooge).
Once I've used up the original fluid I will have a go at making up a supply of my own.
Dave

[The Grand Wazoo]

All these other methods are fine as far as they go, but you can't beat a good suck!!!

[Barry]

All these other methods are fine as far as they go, but you can't beat a good suck!!!

Tu quoque

But seriously - if you can't be "arsed" with a RCM, you have no place on this forum.

[Spur07]

I have done the same. One brand new from Ebay for £29.99 and a second hand unit from Ebay for £23.
I am still using up the fluid supplied by Knosti in the first machine, using distilled water in the second for a rinse.
The vinyl takes 20 minutes to dry but there is nothing to stop you using a lint free drying cloth (Ikea!) to speed up the process.
I have found this to be pretty good at removing grit and grime from charity shop purchases. The distilled water rinse seems to leave the surface clean with no residue showing up on the stylus when playing.
At the moment I am recycling the Knosti fluid by filtering with a new paper coffee filter (being a bit of a scrooge).
Once I've used up the original fluid I will have a go at making up a supply of my own.
Dave

you managed to source yours cheaper than me Dave. nice work. some people recommend watering down the knosti fluid, but I'm not sure they were using the 2 bath system with a final wash.

Do you replace the distilled water in the final wash after each LP?

[snuffbox]

All these other methods are fine as far as they go, but you can't beat a good suck!!!

A proper RCM is fine if you have the room for one.

However I may try to maker a sucker from a jar, some tubeing and the vacuum cleaner.
Failing that I suppose I might try putting the spindle in my electric drill and spinning off the excess.

[Spur07]

A proper RCM is fine if you have the room for one.

However I may try to maker a sucker from a jar, some tubeing and the vacuum cleaner.
Failing that I suppose I might try putting the spindle in my electric drill and spinning off the excess.

There's lots of advice on the web regarding making your own 'sucker'. if you've got 1000's of vinyls then buying a RCM is a good investment and much easier, but paying to get your records cleaned on an RCM is false economy i've discovered.

[Reffc]

Regarding record cleaning solutions, earlier mention of IPA 50/50 with distilled water was made. I would caution against such a strong concentration of IPA as it could damage the plasticisers used in the LP. The recommended solution (sometimes referred to as "archive" solution) is:

20 to 25% Lab grade (99.99% pure) IPA;
75 to 80% Demineralised, distilled or de-ionised water;
0.5% by volume wetting agent.

The wetting agent helps break down surface tension so that to solution gets into the very bottom of the grooves, and when the solution is agitated with a cleaning brush, it foams, lifting the dirt out of the grooves and into solution.

Removal by vacuum is the best way to clean the LP surface. The nozzle usually has a bypass feed which creates and airflow across the slot and this evaporates the IPA. (IPA is readily soluble in water but can be effectively evaporated out of solution with airflow).

The wetting agent also prevents any residues being left over.

Relying on the stylus to remove the muck is a BAD idea. Any minute dirt particles add to stylus and LP wear just as a grinding paste would (exaggerated but you get the picture).

There are many wetting agents you can use, but I have found one of the best is Ilford's Ilfotol photographic wetting agent. This does not contain any chlorides which can damage the LP or the stylus unlike washing up liquid (which is high in salt content). However, at the concentrations used, a small drop of washing up liquid for the odd clean shouldn't do any harm.

Since cleaning my LP's this way, I rarely, if ever, need to clean the stylus and the sound is greatly improved on most LPs.

You can make your own RCM using an old donor TT (spin the platter by hand) and a wet & Dry canister vacuum cleaner with the nooks and crannies nozzle adapted with a long slot, a plug at one end (with a 4mm hole or gap) and some self adhesive carbon bristle pads. Cheap and very effective.

[keiths]

Regarding record cleaning solutions, earlier mention of IPA 50/50 with distilled water was made. I would caution against such a strong concentration of IPA as it could damage the plasticisers used in the LP. The recommended solution (sometimes referred to as "archive" solution) is:

20 to 25% Lab grade (99.99% pure) IPA;
75 to 80% Demineralised, distilled or de-ionised water;
0.5% by volume wetting agent.


I agree - 50% IPA is WAY too much for regular cleaning. I currently use a 1 + 4 mix of IPA and distilled water (eg. 100ml IPA in a 500ml bottle topped up with distilled water). I add about 20 or so drops of Kodak Photoflo wetting agent with a pipette and give it a good shake up.

[snuffbox]

You can make your own RCM using an old donor TT (spin the platter by hand) and a wet & Dry canister vacuum cleaner with the nooks and crannies nozzle adapted with a long slot, a plug at one end (with a 4mm hole or gap) and some self adhesive carbon bristle pads. Cheap and very effective.

If I had the room for all that I'd probably buy a rcm.

[ninedecks]

you managed to source yours cheaper than me Dave. nice work. some people recommend watering down the knosti fluid, but I'm not sure they were using the 2 bath system with a final wash.

Do you replace the distilled water in the final wash after each LP?

No. I change the distilled water after 24 lp's have been through - I have made a small change to the cleaning regime, after the Knosti liquid wash I put the vinyl under the tap before transferring to the distilled water bath.
If the distilled water is visibly mucky from contaminent, I would change it, however, so far it hasn't proved necessary.

[indus]

I've just retrieved my records from the loft after many many years.

Quite a lot of dirt has settled on the surface of many of the records, it is clearly visible. Even as I try and pull the record out of the cover I can hear/feel the dirt rubbing on the cover and scratching the vinyl.

When records are this dirty what is the best method of cleaning without damaging them?

Many thanks

[Spur07]

No. I change the distilled water after 24 lp's have been through - I have made a small change to the cleaning regime, after the Knosti liquid wash I put the vinyl under the tap before transferring to the distilled water bath.
If the distilled water is visibly mucky from contaminent, I would change it, however, so far it hasn't proved necessary.

mate, that's genius - quick rinse under the tap before the final wash to preserve the distilled water for longer washing - i'm such an idiot :doh:

Thanks.

Cleaned about 30 odd LP's so far, had a few that needed re-washing due to intrusive drying marks.

[Audioman]

mate, that's genius - quick rinse under the tap before the final wash to preserve the distilled water for longer washing - i'm such an idiot :doh:

Thanks.

Cleaned about 30 odd LP's so far, had a few that needed re-washing due to intrusive drying marks.

Tap water will recontaminate the LP and risk of wetting labels. You can get a 5 litre PURIFIED water (the best) for a few £s from chemists which will last ages even without reuse. Clean with Knost fluid, leave batch of LP's to dry on rack. Then remove and filter Knosti liquid. Replace with purified water, clean and return to rack again to dry. Little marking, no deposits/residue left for stylus to pick up.

[Patrick Dixon]

I've just retrieved my records from the loft after many many years.

Quite a lot of dirt has settled on the surface of many of the records, it is clearly visible. Even as I try and pull the record out of the cover I can hear/feel the dirt rubbing on the cover and scratching the vinyl.

When records are this dirty what is the best method of cleaning without damaging them?

Many thanks

Where you have surface dirt you need to remove it with a brush, even before using a wet record cleaner. I use a carbon fibre one held against the record as it's spinning on the deck, and draw it towards the edge of the record. Don't press hard, let the brush do the work.

You should also buy some replacement inner sleeves for LPs with those cardboard inners. Cardboard inners will scratch the vinyl to pieces.

[Patrick Dixon]

You can get a 5 litre PURIFIED water (the best) for a few £s from chemists which will last ages even without reuse.

Not from the chemists round here you can't. It is available on eBay though.

[indus]

Where you have surface dirt you need to remove it with a brush, even before using a wet record cleaner. I use a carbon fibre one held against the record as it's spinning on the deck, and draw it towards the edge of the record. Don't press hard, let the brush do the work.

You should also buy some replacement inner sleeves for LPs with those cardboard inners. Cardboard inners will scratch the vinyl to pieces.


Thanks Patrick, I'll try and get hold of one of those brushes:)

[Audioman]

Not from the chemists round here you can't. It is available on eBay though.

Ask. They keep it behind the counter or can order from medical suppliers within 24 hours.

[shuggz]

Cheaper still find a local secondary school or college, they'll have labs with double/single distillers.

[Patrick Dixon]

Ask.

You think I haven't?

[Macca]

IMO if you want to use vinyl as a source for anything more than the odd novelty play you have really got to get a proper wet/vacuum machine - without the vacuum you are really just moving the crud around in the grooves. It's an expense I know, but the difference compared to these halfway-house solutions is massive.

[northwest]

Not from the chemists round here you can't. It is available on eBay though.

Go find your nearest marine fish place and buy twenty five litres of RO water for about four quid. Conversely go here and buy your own RO unit RO MAN (http://www.ro-man.com/)

[Audioman]

You think I haven't?

Seems you have deliberately unhelpfull chemists or ignorant assistants. It's a standard product for medical use and not a restricted chemical. I have found my independent chemist helpfull since Boots stopped stocking it.


IMO if you want to use vinyl as a source for anything more than the odd novelty play you have really got to get a proper wet/vacuum machine - without the vacuum you are really just moving the crud around in the grooves. It's an expense I know, but the difference compared to these halfway-house solutions is massive.

Agree 100 % but you can get reasonable results using my 2 wash Knosti method. Running records cleaned on the Knosti through my Okki Nokki improves them furthur.

[peelaaa]

Go find your nearest marine fish place and buy twenty five litres of RO water for about four quid. Conversely go here and buy your own RO unit RO MAN (http://www.ro-man.com/)

I have a 5 stage reverse osmosis water filter fitted in my house for drinking water. Never thought of using it to rinse the records.

It works well as the tap water has approx 300mg/litre of Total dissolved solids(TDS), using my TDS tester.
But after water filter it is reduced to approx 20-30mg/litre.
Also, it removes chlorine as well as other chemicals.

Good site here explains all. http://www.tdsmeter.com/what-is

[Patrick Dixon]

Go find your nearest marine fish place and buy twenty five litres of RO water for about four quid. Conversely go here and buy your own RO unit RO MAN (http://www.ro-man.com/)

Hey, guess what?

I tried the local fish place and their RO machine was broken!

[northwest]

Hey, guess what?

I tried the local fish place and their RO machine was broken!

They can't "break" as there is nothing to break in there. More than likely they need to change the membranes and they are a cost so......
Buy your own, they aren't expensive and will produce water suitable for irons, batteries, drinking and generally topping the fish tank up with. If you don't have fish you could always get some?

[peelaaa]

They can't "break" as there is nothing to break in there. More than likely they need to change the membranes and they are a cost so......
Buy your own, they aren't expensive and will produce water suitable for irons, batteries, drinking and generally topping the fish tank up with. If you don't have fish you could always get some?

The membrane costs about £25 but lasts 3-5 years, the other filters cost less than a few quid each. Its easily installed diy if you are confident with basic plumbing.

[northwest]

The membrane costs about £25 but lasts 3-5 years, the other filters cost less than a few quid each. Its easily installed diy if you are confident with basic plumbing.

It is entirely dependant on how much water you are putting through it. Roy and Ken up at Interfish have one running twenty four hours seven days a week, constant and the filters are changed weekly, the membrane every month or so. A household unit could quite easily last up to three years but not if the local water authority have been digging up the plumbing!
But yes, easily installed even with basic DIY skills. If yu can connect a hi-fi together you can plumb one of these in.

[peelaaa]

It is entirely dependant on how much water you are putting through it. Roy and Ken up at Interfish have one running twenty four hours seven days a week, constant and the filters are changed weekly, the membrane every month or so. A household unit could quite easily last up to three years but not if the local water authority have been digging up the plumbing!
But yes, easily installed even with basic DIY skills. If yu can connect a hi-fi together you can plumb one of these in.

I reckon its a good investment and not just for keeping your records clean.

Where I live, the water is very hard with lots of limescale, water post filter has none of this and if you like a cup of tea then its worth buying for that alone:)

If using water to rinse the knosti antistat fluid off the records, will the record then lose the antistatic properties??