View Full Version : New LP with 'dirty stain?
Have just bought my first NEW LP for what must over 20 years, Kraftwerk - Trans-Europe-Express.
However, when I look at both sides they have what looks like a dirty water stain.
Have not played it yet but was wondering if I should return it or if this just the quality of the vinyl mix they have used and is fairly typical?
Hi Andy,
I know exactly what you mean, as I have a few new records just as you describe, and it's a major bugbear of mine! It didn't happen in the old days when only (new) virgin vinyl was used for pressings.
The cause is likely to be a 'defect', due to the fact that recycled, and not virgin, vinyl has been used for the pressing run. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to remove the 'stain', as its part of the vinyl itself.
Because of that, it's unlikely that the supplier will entertain replacing or refunding your purchase.
The good news, however, is that the 'stain' won't affect sound quality, and nor will it damage your stylus. So simply play your new record and enjoy it :cool:
Marco.
Hi Andy,
I know exactly what you mean, as I have a few new records just as you describe, and it's a major bugbear of mine! It didn't happen in the old days when only (new) virgin vinyl was used for pressings.
The cause is likely to be a 'defect', due to the fact that recycled, and not virgin, vinyl has been used for the pressing run. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to remove the 'stain', as its part of the vinyl itself.
Because of that, it's unlikely that the supplier will entertain replacing or refunding your purchase.
The good news, however, is that the 'stain' won't affect sound quality, and nor will it damage your stylus. So simply play your new record and enjoy it :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco
Thanks for the reply.
The main issue was that it was a defect that will impair the sound quality, which you have indicated should not be a problem. So as long as it plays well I'm happy.
It will do, Andy, providing that there is nothing else 'wrong' with it, which I doubt that there is.
If you have an RCM, the record will likely benefit from a quick clean, simply to remove any mould release agent left over from the manufacturing process (a thin 'invisible' film on the top of the record surface, which all new records have).
If you haven't got an RCM, then worry not, and just enjoy the music. Good album, btw! :)
Marco.
PaulStewart
11-03-2012, 13:53
Hi Andy,
I know exactly what you mean, as I have a few new records just as you describe, and it's a major bugbear of mine! It didn't happen in the old days when only (new) virgin vinyl was used for pressings.
The cause is likely to be a 'defect', due to the fact that recycled, and not virgin, vinyl has been used for the pressing run. .
The problem is that the regrind and the virgin vinyl have not been mixed thoroughly. *With 180gm hand or slow pressings virgin plastic is best. *However research back in the 70's showed that on high speed commercial presses 33% clean regrind mixed in properly, would give a better flow in to the stamper, resulting in better sound quality and less defects. *This of course meant clean regrind, with the old labels "dinked out", some less scrupulous plants were known to grind the labels in as well when vinyl was at a premium during the first oil crisis.
BTW, staining can happen when two batches of virgin have different black content, it' s not definitely a regrind/virgin thing. *Sorry about the pedantry I really must get out more.
Hi Paul,
Sure; that's something I wouldn't have considered, so thanks for the info :)
It is annoying though when it happens, especially when it's on expensive and supposed 'audiophile quality' discs, which often aren't even 100% flat! :doh:
Quality control obviously isn't what it used to be in today's record pressing plants!!
Marco.
almost all new LP's i've bought recently seem to have come from recycled vinyl - my recent P J Harvey purchase looked like it'd been dragged through a bush. it plays fine but needed a good scrub on a RCM first.
Audioman
12-03-2012, 23:03
Most of the assumptions I have read on this thread are way of the mark. Most new vinyl is virgin. Regrind v virgin does not explain the issues highlighted in relation to appearance. There are plenty of opportunities for pressing plants to screw up in the process with Virgin vinyl. I would tend to ignore appearance and go by how it plays. Most audible faults I find in vinyl are virtualy invisible anyway. I do find there are way too many pressing imperfections today, practicaly as common as with the earlier mass produced product.
Well, call me fussy, Paul, but when I spend upwards £25 on a new vinyl album, I expect it to be:
a) 100% flat.
b) 100% free from any 'stains', no matter where they've come from.
Therefore, when I look at the playing surface, when the record is on the platter, I want to see shiny, totally flat black vinyl, which looks like a mirror, it's *that* clean, not cloudy, streaky 'stains', when natural light shines on the record surface.
The latter is, quite frankly, sub-standard and shoddy workmanship! Sadly, that's the case with many new vinyl records I've bought over the last few years :rolleyes:
Marco.
Audioman
13-03-2012, 09:51
Well, call me fussy, Paul, but when I spend upwards £25 on a new vinyl album, I expect it to be:
a) 100% flat.
b) 100% free from any 'stains', no matter where they've come from.
Therefore, when I look at the playing surface, when the record is on the platter, I want to see shiny, totally flat black vinyl, which looks like a mirror, it's *that* clean, not cloudy, streaky 'stains', when natural light shines on the record surface.
The latter is, quite frankly, sub-standard and shoddy workmanship! Sadly, that's the case with many new vinyl records I've bought over the last few years :rolleyes:
Marco.
Marco. I do actualy agree with you about appearance and flatness. I usualy return anything which is significantly dished or warped. Unfortunately due to the prevalence of non-audible marking I have to draw the line somewhere and accept a disc if it is flatish and free from major audible faults. I agree wholeheartedly that pressing plants should be capable of producing perfect looking discs. Unfortunately for whatever reason most appear to be incapable of this today. I just don't see sense on spending time and effort returning a 'stained' disc without listening to it. It's not going to damage a diamond stylus in any way.
Paul.
Oh I completely agree with that. Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier? :)
I also wouldn't consider returning any records unless they were really badly dished or had other major problems, as it's more hassle than it's worth. Maybe we should though, and it might force those involved in pressing plants to raise their standards?
If hundreds of records were being returned regularly because of the defects we're discussing, it might make them think twice about sending them out that way in the first place!
Fortunately, I buy the bulk of my records from Probe in Liverpool, and everything I buy from there is played first on the T/T in their shop, which means that I can see whether or not the record is dished, hear whether there are any playback defects (scratches, etc) and check the physical condition of the playing surface before I buy the records.
That's one of the advantages of making purchases at an old-fashioned shop, rather than on-line, where you have no control whatsoever over what's being sent to you! ;)
Marco.
Audioman
13-03-2012, 10:47
Oh I completely agree with that. Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier? :)
Fortunately, I buy the bulk of my records from Probe in Liverpool, and everything I buy from there is played first on the T/T in their shop, which means that I can see whether or not the record is dished, hear whether there are any playback defects (scratches, etc) and check the physical condition of the playing surface before I buy the records.
That's one of the advantages of making purchases at an old-fashioned shop, rather than on-line, where you have no control whatsoever over what's being sent to you! ;)
Marco.
That sort of shop is a major rarity now. Do they still have those booths where you can listen to the latest pops ? :)
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 10:50
If you buy a lot of secondhand stuff, it's handy to have a little torch to shine on the playing surfaces from several different angles to check condition. Everyone will think you're absolutely mad, but given the number of record shops with crap lighting, it's a useful trick.
This is what I use (http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/torches/uni-com-torch-ultra-bright-led/invt/0289469/?htxt=PsAGyAqy%2FDSGVBgOHPBfATKVETOKIWHcwqoICuDrG% 2FxTcDPfxIrYzUvEu76RzzM6wutKTeo9AOCB%0AtDs76aYYKg% 3D%3D) - cheap, tiny & very, very bright!
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor-static.com/productimages/285x285/AC1100941010.jpg
Actually, Paul, there are quite a few in my area. It seems to be a north/south thing...
I've discussed this before, and outside of major cities like London, etc, it seems to be that there are more independent record shops in the midlands and north of the country, than there are generally in the south. Why, I dunno? :scratch:
But, yes, some of the DJ-orientated record shops near me, where all they sell are 12" dance singles and albums, you can sit down at you own T/T (often a Techy) and headphones and listen to what you like, before you buy it. Yes, I do like some of that kind of music, mainly the ambient/trance stuff.
It's a much more fun way of buying records than simply clicking on a mouse!
Shops, like The Diskery in Birmingham (I notice you've just posted on the thread in the music room), if you know where to look, are quite common around where I live, and in Manchester, and up in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee.
Why it's not like that, in general, in the south of the UK, I've no idea....
Marco.
If you buy a lot of secondhand stuff, it's handy to have a little torch to shine on the playing surfaces from several different angles to check condition. Everyone will think you're absolutely mad, but given the number of record shops with crap lighting, it's a useful trick.
This is what I use (http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/torches/uni-com-torch-ultra-bright-led/invt/0289469/?htxt=PsAGyAqy%2FDSGVBgOHPBfATKVETOKIWHcwqoICuDrG% 2FxTcDPfxIrYzUvEu76RzzM6wutKTeo9AOCB%0AtDs76aYYKg% 3D%3D) - cheap, tiny & very, very bright!
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor-static.com/productimages/285x285/AC1100941010.jpg
Excellent tip, Chris - I'm ordering one now!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 11:09
They're excellent.
I used to use a socking great Maglite when I walked the dog at night (narrow, bendy country lanes with high hedges don't combine well with some of the arseholes who use our roads), but I swapped it for one of these a couple of years ago. Just as effective, lighter and smaller and it doesn't freeze your hands in the winter!
The Maglite does double up as an effective cosh, though....
I usually find that walking the dog in my PVC mini-dress and stockings is enough of a deterrent for any 'baddies'....
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9137/keithrichards14231.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/keithrichards14231.jpg/)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
13-03-2012, 13:23
The Maglite does double up as an effective cosh, though....
Yeah - probably a little too effective!
Marco, that would scare anyone off, possibly including any dog that might have the misfortune of witnessing such a sight.
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Marco.
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