View Full Version : Advice on buying a SL1200/1210
Hi there:)
I haven't owned a vinyl player since I was a kid. I've been hankering after one for ages. One of the main reasons for this is because there is a lot of 80s/90s/00s dance music I would like to listen to that was never released on CD ie white labels etc.
I want a high quality sound, something that can live up to the rest of my system that has seen me throw many £1000s at it.
I have looked at (but not heard) the usual suspects like Michell, Nott Audio etc but I have this romantic notion about the techies because they are so linked to the sort of music I listen to (old school hip hop/electro and dance ie drum and bass)
So I need some advice on my potential purchase
1) Is it worth spending the extra money on a Mk5G? They seem to be up at some very expensive prices on ebay ie £500-£900.
2) How much would I have to spend on mods (and what mods would they be) to get a std 1210 to perform to a level on par with my CD player?
3) Apart from ebay where else might I source a good quality/lightly used techie
Many thanks :)
(My 2ch set up is .... Quad CDP2 > Audio Research Company LS17 preamp > 2 x Quad 909 poweramps bi amping large Monitor Audio platinum 300 speakers)
Buy a used Technics at around £220, fit a DJ cart like a Stanton 520V3 - total outlay say £250 - see what you think. If you likee - you can either sell the used Technics and buy a mint or new MK5 or upgrade the exisiting Technics. If you no likee you sell the Technics back to the market for what you paid, you are not going to be down more than forty notes on the whole exercise.
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 10:22
Morning David!
Don't worry about what version of the SL12XX series you end up getting. Assuming you're getting a s/h one rather than seeking out a NOS one somewhere, the condition is FAR more important than the model.
Most importantly they all have the magical DD motor that really makes them so special. There are some minor differences (stock arms on the later versions are somewhat better), but otherwise it's just cosmetic differences and features you won't need for HiFi use, like the pitch fader for example.
I started with a boggo Mk5 (got lucky and found a BNIB but opened one for £350) and worked from there.
Personally I found it sounded pretty good in totally stock form with a decent cartridge, and because vinyl is just 'different' from digital, I don't think you'll be disappointed as it's a different experience.
My most basic recommendations to get a decent sound for sensible money would be:
1. Find a good, clean deck. Get a shagged out 'DJ Special' and although they are almost always salvageable, it's a PITA that you could do without.
2. Put it on a decent support, preferably a wall shelf and ditch the stock feet for some soft sorbothane ones.
3. Get a decent cartridge a DL103 is a good choice if you want to go MC on a budget
4. Replace the stock headshell with one by Sumiko or Ortofon
The above will have a good stock 1200 sounding pretty good for very little.
From there, it gets a bit more expensive, but I would say the next must-do is an external PSU.
This is particularly important if you do decide to go MC rather than MM for your cartridge as the on-board PSU is not good news for super-sensitive MCs.
After that, the stock arm would probably be next on my list, but as long as it's been well cared for, it's not as bad as you might think - even Jonny at Audio Origami says it's not half bad, and you might even consider getting him to do a rewire and foam-fill as an interim step for about £130.
Other folks here will have loads of advice and experience, but this is roughly how I progressed and was very pleased at how things progressed.
Maca
I'm pretty sure a standard techie will not hit the mark for me. My preamp and speakers are very revealing. If I decide to go for the tech I think I will have to commit and go straight for the mods to really give it a fair go. I hope that makes sense?
Steve, thanks for the great advice. I know this is a difficult question but with the mods you mention would a techie sound as good (although different of course) as something like a gyrodec?
Many thanks
Don't dismiss the Ortofon Concorde cartridges either. You can have durable conical (OM Pro style), there's an elliptical version (Arkive?) and then the HiFi variants from the OM10 up to the OM40, all of which being usable in the Concorde body. The "SUPER" bodies have laminated pole-pieces I understand (Shure V15 III influence here?) but the difference isn't huge.
I only mention this because you may find a clean 12** with one of these cartridge systems fitted, as I believe DSDL Neil did.
If you don't want to spend much money on suping it up straight off, I'd recommend getting the thing properly sited, since THIS is the most telling thing about a stock one IMO. Fortunately, the Vantage Audio style feet aren't expensive and you could easily sell them on without losing shedloads of dosh.
Maca
I'm pretty sure a standard techie will not hit the mark for me. My preamp and speakers are very revealing.
I was suggesting that just as a starting point that would give you an idea whether you wanted to continue down that road or not. It will give your dance music that club sound, if that is what you are after. Also I think you might be surprised as to how listenable the stock deck is, amp and speakers notwithstanding.
Maca
I'm pretty sure a standard techie will not hit the mark for me. My preamp and speakers are very revealing. If I decide to go for the tech I think I will have to commit and go straight for the mods to really give it a fair go. I hope that makes sense?
Steve, thanks for the great advice. I know this is a difficult question but with the mods you mention would a techie sound as good (although different of course) as something like a gyrodec?
Many thanks
David, you may be suprised by a stock Techie, l know l was, and l have a revealing but musical system:) As some posted above, some of the upgrades are inexpensive and really work.
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 14:11
Maca
I'm pretty sure a standard techie will not hit the mark for me. My preamp and speakers are very revealing. If I decide to go for the tech I think I will have to commit and go straight for the mods to really give it a fair go. I hope that makes sense?
Steve, thanks for the great advice. I know this is a difficult question but with the mods you mention would a techie sound as good (although different of course) as something like a gyrodec?
Many thanks
Hi David.
I've not owned or heard a Gyrodec personally, so can't comment, but I can give you a comparison with a well sorted Pink Triangle PT Too that I used to own. That was a well sorted, well respected 'proper HiFi table' and including an arm an cartridge, was significantly more expensive than my Techie as it is now but I definately prefer my 1210.
The best bit is that I've spread the cost over quite some time, so it's been very affordable to get where I am and I've still got platter and bearing mods from Vantage Audio on my list.
One of the big bonuses for me is the total simplicity, reliability and unflappable nature of a Techie. It's basically bomb proof, will work faultlessly for years and even though it's out of production, it will be a LONG time before spare parts become a problem (not that it's likely to need many). Also it's a bit of a design classic in it's own right and definately got an air of 'retro-cool' about it.
I'd suggest trying to get to hear a modded example - plenty of folks here have them and would be happy to oblige - before diving in, but I don't think you'd be disappointed if you did.
If you are determined to just dive in then I'd say:
1. Sorbothene feet
2. Decent cart, Headshell & mat
3. External PSU (pretty much essential if you go MC rather than MM)
4. Replacement arm (probably a Jelco 250 or 750 depending on budget, not convinced about using a Rega 250 or 300 but some rate them), or get Audio Origami to rewire and foam fill the stock one for a cheaper stop-gap.
That would get you something pretty decent without going as far as bearing and platter changes which can get REALLY expensive.
However if I was starting from scratch NOW and was planning to spend similar money to the above in one hit, then I think I would probably just go for the 'basic' version of Vic's Trans-Fi Salvation deck, which I think has got to be the best vfm combo around.
http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm
Unfortunately it wasn't around when I first got into my Techie and I never had all the cash to spend in one go anyway.
David, if you are anywhere near Hornchurch Essex, l have a tweaked and a stock Techie you could listen to.
chris@panteg
10-03-2012, 14:34
Hi David
I have a modded 1210 and i believe for the kind of music you like , its right up you're street ! Modded or not as the case may be :)
I don't have much in the way of dance music , i do have some New Order albums from the 80's and these sound incredible on the Techie ! My stepson has a couple of Pendulum albums and again very at home with thumping thunderous bass :D
Its pretty good with most musical genres but arguably at its very best with dance or anything with a beat in it , oh dear I may get into trouble for saying that :doh: But its how i see it and hear it :)
Hi Andy, actually I'm not far at all from Hornchurch! That's a very kind offer and I might take you up on it once I've done all my homework.
Thanks Chris
Steve, it is exactly the unflappable and fuss free nature of the 12xx that attracts me. Also its a deck that is associated with my 'youth' as I grew up when scratching and mixing really emerged. I don't want to use it for that though!
Can you tell me what a decent PSU for the tech would cost?
I've never heard of these salvation decks and would be weary about buying something that expensive from what looks to be like a 'one man band' if you know what I mean.
I think I will take the plunge and buy one. I would really like a mint one as it will be on show in my lounge so can't look visibly marked in any way, so this will take some searching.
Thanks to all
kininigin
10-03-2012, 17:48
Hi david,
If you intend to be buying/using mainly beat driven music then i would highly recommend the technics.I have a load of jungle/d&b from my bedroom dj days,and of the most importance is speed stability with this music,even though your not mixing it.
To be honest,i've never heard a belt drive tt,so cannot really comment on them,but if they suffer from slight speed stability then to me that seems ridiculous and wouldn't even comtemplate one,weather if im listening to beat driven music or not.
You can probaly pick up a deck for £150-300 depending on condition.Check gumtree and local adverts,it will be easy to get one.Don't know what you budget is,but you don't need to spend crazy amounts for great results.
Im not a million miles away from you,so if you would like to visit and listen to a modded techincs(not fully modded),with the music you will be using,then your more than welcome.
Maca
I'm pretty sure a standard techie will not hit the mark for me. My preamp and speakers are very revealing. If I decide to go for the tech I think I will have to commit and go straight for the mods to really give it a fair go. I hope that makes sense?
Steve, thanks for the great advice. I know this is a difficult question but with the mods you mention would a techie sound as good (although different of course) as something like a gyrodec?
Many thanks
As others have mentioned you may be surprised at the quality of sound from a stock Technics SL1200 BUT there are two things to keep in mind compared to CD players. One is that the turntable must be set up properly (cartridge aligned, suitable phono preamp - MM and/or MC - for the type of cartridge you decide on, stable platform, etc.) and your music software must be taken care of (cleaned, no scratches, more respect, additional up-and-down to turn over). Good luck and enjoy.
Although others have suggested an external power supply is a first major step, I haven't yet added one to my system - although its on its way - and I LOVE the sound of my modified SL1210. I purchased mine, used, a couple of years ago in very good condition for $200 (about £125) and added modifications over time including a re-wired stock arm, Zupreme headshell, several upgrades of cartridge, KAB fluid damper, copper mat, new silver-wire phono interconnects, step up unit, new feet, vibration damping, etc. I also shifted from solid state to vacuum tube technology for my preamp and amp so the road can be quite interesting.
I didn't have to do any of them but I wanted to experiment and learn at the same time. Did they make a difference: Yes.
Did the stock Technics beat my CD player? In some ways, yes, but more so on a musical level than on a "cleaner-than-thou" level. CDs have little or no noise floor {as contrasted with the physical needle on vinyl) but CAN seem sterile depending on the recording.
I have over 2000 12" dance singles from mainly the 80's and 2 x 1210's, one I use to experiment with and the other for listening, the latter being brand new. Some tweaks don't cost the earth like £25-£30 for some feet, £30-£50 for a new headshell, under £100 for a decent cartridge (denon 103 works well), then you get into more serious territory like psu £300, arm (jelco £350 ish), mats, platters, tone arm cables, the list goes on, the good thing about the tech is you don't have to do all the mods at once, a little bit at a time all brings small improvements.
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 19:29
Can you tell me what a decent PSU for the tech would cost?
I've never heard of these salvation decks and would be weary about buying something that expensive from what looks to be like a 'one man band' if you know what I mean.
An external PSU will cost £250-300, but you may well find one comes up s/h here for considerably less from time to time.
As for Vic being a 'one man band'? Well that may be true but having seen the things that he makes, I can promise you that not only would it not be a risk, but you'd be getting an awesome deck for probably 1/3 what it would be if made by a 'proper' company. Let's put it this way, if I was in the market to drop £2k-ish on a deck right now, I'd take a Salvation without a second thought.
But if you hanker for a Techie for nostalgic reasons, gor for it! I guarantee that it is genuinely capable of real HiFi performance.
Kinikinigin, yes 90% of my music is 'beat driven'. Though I listen mainly to this kind of music I want to hear it at a very high quality level, 'audiophile/fool' for want of a better word. Thanks for the kind offer of a listen.
Hi Ken. Yes I realise there will be attention to details with a tt that I haven't had to really consider with a CD player.
Like you I have some valves in my set up. My preamp is an Audio Research LS17 valve preamp and I love it!
Hi David, thanks for the info
David - if you're going to mod it (since you say it won't be kept stock) then the exact model you obtain is practically irrelevant unless the arm is going to be kept, in which case an M5G may be worth pursuing. As said elsewhere, the state of the deck is more important than the model.
David - if you're going to mod it (since you say it won't be kept stock) then the exact model you obtain is practically irrelevant unless the arm is going to be kept, in which case an M5G may be worth pursuing. As said elsewhere, the state of the deck is more important than the model.
Martin, what you say is of great importance. I do intend to mod the deck almost immediately and am happy to chuck some money at it to get the best results. I have the opportunity to purchase a virtually unused mint mk2, the only thing stopping me is whether I should hold out for a Mk5G.
However, if you can confirm that there is no advantage of a Mk5G over a Mk2 if I intend to mod then I will go for the Mk2
I look forward to your reply (or anybody else who would like to chip in)
Many thanks
Go for the Mk. II, David. There is no functional difference expect for a wider pitch variation range on the M5G and that's useless for hi-fi purposes.
Stratmangler
10-03-2012, 22:57
Martin, what you say is of great importance. I do intend to mod the deck almost immediately and am happy to chuck some money at it to get the best results. I have the opportunity to purchase a virtually unused mint mk2, the only thing stopping me is whether I should hold out for a Mk5G.
However, if you can confirm that there is no advantage of a Mk5G over a Mk2 if I intend to mod then I will go for the Mk2
I look forward to your reply (or anybody else who would like to chip in)
Many thanks
There's at least one advantage to modding a Mk2 - the pitch control is a lot easier to disable.
Thanks.:)
I'll try and do a deal on the Mk2 and will let you all know how I get on
Would it not be better just to go straight for a sp 10?
Would it not be better just to go straight for a sp 10?
I'm afraid I'll have to plead ignorance here, I know nothing about the SP10 other than googling it just now.
Is it in any way a better deck than the 12xx?
Would really appreciate an early answer to this as I'm negotiating on the Mk2 as we speak!
Well, have a think about it, as l said l have a pimped 1200 and a battered standard one:)
:doh: Oops forgot to put the quote -hangovers:cool:
bogle111
11-03-2012, 11:13
FWIW a good SP10 is going to cost you considerably more and may need more expense before set up. I don't own a 1200, but what I did hear was good.
I would start with a 1200 which will be pretty easy to resell if you later go for an SP10. This is the cautious approach. Oh, and there seems to be dearth of good, well priced SP10's at the moment. We all seem to be hanging on to them.
Regards
chris@panteg
11-03-2012, 11:25
I'm afraid I'll have to plead ignorance here, I know nothing about the SP10 other than googling it just now.
Is it in any way a better deck than the 12xx?
Would really appreciate an early answer to this as I'm negotiating on the Mk2 as we speak!
Stick with a good 1200 mk2 , it's ideal for what you want and taste in dance music !
An SP10 would be great but does not come with a free arm or plinth ! Unless you can find the SL1000 package ?
Thanks. It seems like a mk2 makes sense for now, a SP10 seems like it will be a lot more hard work/time/expense to get right. It may be something for me to look at doing over the longer term once I already have a working deck to listen to in the meantime.
Thanks
chris@panteg
11-03-2012, 11:58
Thanks. It seems like a mk2 makes sense for now, a SP10 seems like it will be a lot more hard work/time/expense to get right. It may be something for me to look at doing over the longer term once I already have a working deck to listen to in the meantime.
Thanks
That's the right approach , I would love an SP10 but it would be a project and expensive .
In the last year I almost fell out of love with my Techy ! But now it's sounding back on track , listening to it yesterday , I was almost in a state of grace , much happier :)
Thanks to all.
Mk2 now purchased. It has cost me quite a lot but it's mint having been purchased brand new in 2011 and used for about 10 hours. This was important to me as I didn't want one that had any visible marks or signs of use.
I'll be needing advice on mods soon and look forward to input from all the people who have been so helpful so far
Thanks again
chris@panteg
11-03-2012, 18:51
Thanks to all.
Mk2 now purchased. It has cost me quite a lot but it's mint having been purchased brand new in 2011 and used for about 10 hours. This was important to me as I didn't want one that had any visible marks or signs of use.
I'll be needing advice on mods soon and look forward to input from all the people who have been so helpful so far
Thanks again
That's great :)
Just use it as it is for the time being , get used to it and play some records :)
Thanks to all.
Mk2 now purchased. It has cost me quite a lot but it's mint having been purchased brand new in 2011 and used for about 10 hours. This was important to me as I didn't want one that had any visible marks or signs of use.
I'll be needing advice on mods soon and look forward to input from all the people who have been so helpful so far
Thanks again
Hope you like it David, any questions you know where we are- now go and spin some records!:)
Wakefield Turntables
11-03-2012, 21:53
Thanks to all.
Mk2 now purchased. It has cost me quite a lot but it's mint having been purchased brand new in 2011 and used for about 10 hours. This was important to me as I didn't want one that had any visible marks or signs of use.
I'll be needing advice on mods soon and look forward to input from all the people who have been so helpful so far
Thanks again
Please take this advice as it could save you thousands!! Listen very very carefully to how your new deck sounds. Remember how it sounds and then decide how you would like it sound. That is when we can give you advice. Between us just about every mod known to man has been recommend, tried, failed, implented on 1210's by members of AOS
Thanks guys.
Andrew, I will take the advice with thanks. But this means I need to buy a phono stage now so that I can hear the sl210 through each stage starting from unmodded.
I use an Audio Research LS17 pre at the moment but this has no phono stage.
So how do I go about choosing a phono stage that will see me through the whole process??
Thanks
Buy a good one? What arm and cartridge do you anticipate ending up with?
Wakefield Turntables
12-03-2012, 11:45
Thanks guys.
Andrew, I will take the advice with thanks. But this means I need to buy a phono stage now so that I can hear the sl210 through each stage starting from unmodded.
I use an Audio Research LS17 pre at the moment but this has no phono stage.
So how do I go about choosing a phono stage that will see me through the whole process??
Thanks
OK So do you want a SS sound or a valve sound?? This has huge implications on what you might purchase.
chris@panteg
12-03-2012, 12:19
Thanks guys.
Andrew, I will take the advice with thanks. But this means I need to buy a phono stage now so that I can hear the sl210 through each stage starting from unmodded.
I use an Audio Research LS17 pre at the moment but this has no phono stage.
So how do I go about choosing a phono stage that will see me through the whole process??
Thanks
If you start off with a good MM , I suggest possibly the Croft RIAA or a Puresound P10 , both are good enough to see you through many upgrades and beyond .
Thanks.
Martin, at this point I have no idea what arm and especially cartridge I will end up with. I don't even know whether it will be mm or mc as I don't know what advantages/disadvantages each one has (though some phono pres can do both can't they?)
I know this makes it difficult to advice me but though I've been into hifi for many years this is my first venture into vinyl.
Andrew, my stereo pre at the moment is a valve but my power amps are all ss. I love the pre I have and it is a keeper (unless I can ever afford its bigger brother the Ref3!)
I really like the sound of system as is and want something that won't let the side down. If I were to note the strengths of my system I would say 1) Plentiful bass that is fantastically well controlled and textured 2) Excellent imaging 3) Huge dispersed sound stage. I'm not sure if that helps or not?
Chris, thanks for those suggestions. I need a few more so I can keep an eye on the classifieds/ebay and try and pick up something second hand.
I know they make lots of models but what do people think about the sl12xx paired to something by Graham Slee, Tom Evans, Whest, Trichord etc.
Many thanks and I appreciate the difficulty in advicing a noobie like me!
Well, I can certainly recommend the Whest PS.30R as I have one and it's superb. It will handle any cartridge so you wouldn't ever need another one.
chris@panteg
12-03-2012, 16:09
I guess I should suggest my Trichord Diablo with NCPSU , excellent phono stage and very user adjustable , then there is the NVA phono 2 and the ANT Kora , both are superb .
Thank you.
That gives me a few to keep my eyes out for
Thanks for all the advice.
Picked up my mk2 today and it is unmarked and mint!
It has a removable sticky decal across the front that says 'limited edition sl1210 mk2'
Does that mean anything or were all mk2s termed limited edition?
All I need now is a phono pre and I can start using it!
All I need
chris@panteg
14-03-2012, 21:17
Thanks for all the advice.
Picked up my mk2 today and it is unmarked and mint!
It has a removable sticky decal across the front that says 'limited edition sl1210 mk2'
Does that mean anything or were all mk2s termed limited edition?
All I need now is a phono pre and I can start using it!
All I need
It's not the gold edition is it ?
You could get hold of a Cambridge 640p for around £60 to get you going ?
It's not the gold edition is it ?
You could get hold of a Cambridge 640p for around £60 to get you going ?
I'm pretty sure it isn't. I'll post a pic of it when I get time.:)
In terms of a pre I'm going to shell out and buy one that will hopefully mean I'm not upgrading every ten minutes.
chris@panteg
14-03-2012, 22:05
Go for it !
It's not the gold edition is it ?
You could get hold of a Cambridge 640p for around £60 to get you going ?
Good idea Chris, it is cheap and fun and sounds rather good for the money!:)
chris@panteg
15-03-2012, 08:51
Good idea Chris, it is cheap and fun and sounds rather good for the money!:)
I had one a few years back , paid £60 new for it , currently £99 new ! Even at that price how can you really complain or knock it :confused:
My Diablo was a big improvement ! But it bloody well should be for the price difference , and its just gone up again and for more than the price of the 640p.
Still the OP wants a quality phono stage to last the duration , 2nd hand is probably the way to go , some bargains about .
Well a divorce will probably be on the cards now but in a moment of madness I bought a Whest PS 30 RDT:doh::eyebrows:
So I need some advice as to which cartridge to go for now. I'd like to get a decent cartridge and start listening to music. Then over time I'll upgrade the arm, PSU and bearing.
So a handful of suggestions on cartridges that would go well with what I have and what I plan to do would be very much appreciated.
Thanks again:)
Well a divorce will probably be on the cards now but in a moment of madness I bought a Whest PS 30 RDT:doh::eyebrows:
So I need some advice as to which cartridge to go for now. I'd like to get a decent cartridge and start listening to music. Then over time I'll upgrade the arm, PSU and bearing.
So a handful of suggestions on cartridges that would go well with what I have and what I plan to do would be very much appreciated.
Thanks again:)
Wow! You need to see if you like the sound of the Techie first! That Whest stage is an expensive stage is it not?
chris@panteg
15-03-2012, 15:48
Well a divorce will probably be on the cards now but in a moment of madness I bought a Whest PS 30 RDT:doh::eyebrows:
So I need some advice as to which cartridge to go for now. I'd like to get a decent cartridge and start listening to music. Then over time I'll upgrade the arm, PSU and bearing.
So a handful of suggestions on cartridges that would go well with what I have and what I plan to do would be very much appreciated.
Thanks again:)
I'm stunned , the Whest is a superb phono stage ! A 2M black would or might do for starters
Nice move, David. That Whest will see you into your twilight years!
The cartridge is dependent on your arm, so for the Technics arm you may want to go for something like an AT440MLa?
Thanks.
It may sound like I'm jumping in at the deep end but there are some lessons I learned building up my digital hifi. I wasted so much money buying something and upgrading again and again that this time I thought I'd buy the piece of kit that hurts me now price wise but will hopefully 'save' me money in the long run.
I'd decided to go for a Whest ps 30 (such positive reviews) and thought I'd be waiting for ages for a second hand one to come up. Then low and behold a second hand ps 30 RDT comes up. Of course it was a lot more than the money I was hoping to get a regular ps 30 for but they don't seem to come up for sale that often so went for it.
Anyway, back to the cartridge. I have the standard arm for now but need a cartridge that will also work when I upgrade the arm. This of course makes things tricky as I don't have the arm yet! The chances are I'll probably go for the SME 309 as it seems to be recommended by lots of techie owners.
I also notice that cartridges recommended by both Chris and Martin are MM. Is this because only MM works well with the standard arm or do you both just prefer MM?
Thanks again
RobbieGong
15-03-2012, 17:26
My 2 pence worth is this. I have the stock arm, KAB fluid damper, Mike New bearing and base Timestep psu. Getting great detail and sonics with 2M Black fitted to the stock arm. Not in a hurry to ditch it and lose the superb IMO on da fly vta, which is a must with the superb 2M Black and its vta sensitive Shibata sylus. In fact at most I'm sometimes tempted to get Origami to do some of their magic with my stock arm ie a bit of foam fill etc thats all as my MK5g has better wire running through it as standard anyway :)
chris@panteg
15-03-2012, 17:38
David , I suggested the black as it should be ok with the stock arm and top cart period !
If you fancy a 309 then the 33EV is a very good match , good with a jelco too .
I also notice that cartridges recommended by both Chris and Martin are MM. Is this because only MM works well with the standard arm or do you both just prefer MM?
No, I greatly prefer MC but the standard arm is a bit lightweight for them as they put so much energy back into the arm. If you want to try one then I recommend a Dynavector if you want a slightly dark sound to match bright components or an Ortofon if you want a neutral design. The AT33 series are also very good but slightly bright. There are so many good models that it's hard to go further. I love my Shelter but you can only import them. Also, you MUST change the headshell to at least a Sumiko for rigidity.
Bear with me here as this is all new to me.
Firstly, if you have an arm and phono pre that can effectively use a MC, is it true to say that on the whole MC cartridges are better than an equivalent MM?
If this is the case then perhaps I shouldn't spend £400 odd on a 2M now? Perhaps get something a bit more reasonably priced now and then buy an expensive MC cart whenever I upgrade the arm?
Please do let me know if my logic is flawed
Low output MCs are generally regarded as superior because the moving mass is tiny. There are other factors at work and they need a very sturdy platform to give of their best.
I would say do as you suggest, buy something to get along with now that will work in the Technics arm and then a low output MC when you upgrade it.
chris@panteg
15-03-2012, 18:39
Bear with me here as this is all new to me.
Firstly, if you have an arm and phono pre that can effectively use a MC, is it true to say that on the whole MC cartridges are better than an equivalent MM?
If this is the case then perhaps I shouldn't spend £400 odd on a 2M now? Perhaps get something a bit more reasonably priced now and then buy an expensive MC cart whenever I upgrade the arm?
Please do let me know if my logic is flawed
Makes sense , the 440 would be a good starter for you, or a DL110 maybe ?
chris@panteg
15-03-2012, 18:59
No, I greatly prefer MC but the standard arm is a bit lightweight for them as they put so much energy back into the arm. If you want to try one then I recommend a Dynavector if you want a slightly dark sound to match bright components or an Ortofon if you want a neutral design. The AT33 series are also very good but slightly bright. There are so many good models that it's hard to go further. I love my Shelter but you can only import them. Also, you MUST change the headshell to at least a Sumiko for rigidity.
Hi Martin
You say the AT33 sounds a bit bright ? Not how it sounds to me at the moment , if anything I'm finding it too smooth and a bit murky , still breaking it in though .
Mine's an AT33PTG and it's very slightly on the bright side of neutral. A Dynavector 20X2L is slightly on the dark side of neutral and the Shelter 5000 is pretty much on the line.
No, I greatly prefer MC but the standard arm is a bit lightweight for them as they put so much energy back into the arm. If you want to try one then I recommend a Dynavector if you want a slightly dark sound to match bright components or an Ortofon if you want a neutral design. The AT33 series are also very good but slightly bright. There are so many good models that it's hard to go further. I love my Shelter but you can only import them. Also, you MUST change the headshell to at least a Sumiko for rigidity.
Hi Martin:)
1) Will the Sumiko headshell you mention take any of the MM cartridges suggested?
2) Is it easy to swap over, are any tools/soldering required?
Thanks
Also quick question about Paul Haynes PSU. I've looked over the website and can't figure which is the PSU for the techie. I also can't therefore figure out what it costs. I did email him a few days ago but never got a reply.
Could somebody tell me the name of the PSU he makes for the Tech and how much it costs please?
Thanks
Hi David, any cartridge can fit the Sumiko headshell. No soldering required, just small tools.
The Paul Hynes power supplies you need are the SR3-21 or SR5-21. Try sending Paul a PM for prices, he usually responds pretty quickly. Soldering is required to install any of the PSUs.
chris@panteg
16-03-2012, 10:29
Why are the prices of Paul's various psu's such closely guarded secrets ? Are they so scarily expensive ?
Not really, Chris, I'm just not going to quote prices that may be old. I'd prefer Paul to give his prices out - horse's mouth and all that. Also, various AoS member discounts are applied by the various vendors and I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
JazzBones
16-03-2012, 15:01
Not really, Chris, I'm just not going to quote prices that may be old. I'd prefer Paul to give his prices out - horse's mouth and all that. Also, various AoS member discounts are applied by the various vendors and I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
The only upgrade, motor wise, is the possible upgrade (?) of my TS HEII PSU, which in tandem with all the mechanical upgrades I have installed is really, really good, so I would be interested in Paul's 7 series (a la Marco?) and if Paul offers an AoS membership discount that would be helpful. To be helpful I do think a price should be mentioned,but not mandatory, applicable at the date of purchase, to enable a potentially interested party to gauge the viability of investment in said product. As an aside observation, it is the Brits who always fight shy of mentioning money involved from my limited experience. To put my thinking into immediate practice I paid UK£90.oop for my ebony armboard, no discount was given. My armboard was not as intricate in manufacture as say yours or Marco's being flat with circular holes although expert machining was required... I make mention of this as it will give anyone else whose interested a guide price. At the end of the day thats all we need initially...viz: a guide price, I would not be happy in thinking that one A0S member gets a better deal than another AoS member as it were unless it has been justified?
Just my aged musing again Martin, and absolutely no aspersions towards anyone.
Cheers
Ron :)
PS. I've been unable to find anything on Paul's Technics PSUs, or a direct comparison between the TS HEII psu and any other psu, discounting the comparison made twix SR3 and base/standard TS psu, so it would be fool hardy of me to dump what I have heard of my HEII psu in favour of another, possibly costing more, without a first hand audition?
Wakefield Turntables
16-03-2012, 15:14
Why are the prices of Paul's various psu's such closely guarded secrets ? Are they so scarily expensive ?
See Martin comments but also they can be modified to whatever extent your wallet can afford. I ordered a teflon coated PCB, it was a special custom order which took several weeks to deliver. Just talk to Paul and stipulate what you want and usually you'll get a reply quite quickly.
Also quick question about Paul Haynes PSU. I've looked over the website and can't figure which is the PSU for the techie. I also can't therefore figure out what it costs. I did email him a few days ago but never got a reply.
Could somebody tell me the name of the PSU he makes for the Tech and how much it costs please?
Thanks
The web site has not been updated in some time, but I have got an answer from Paul another forum on the PSUs:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100670.msg1036898#msg1036898
Paul will put his prices up in due course, but as Andrew has pointed out, there are many variants of his PSUs so it's best to talk to him.
Don't forget other Paul Hynes applications such as the TDR-21 second stage and +9.4V, +5V mini-regulators for the SL-1210, and my 16V PR3 project for the Caiman DAC.
Thanks.
Paul has now replied. He says he doesn't generally put prices up as all items are custom built. Also he has been really busy and hasn't had time to update the website.
So more questions for you guys!
The SR3-21 series 3 costs about twice what the SR5-21/27 does. Is there a night and day difference between the two in terms audible performance or is it subtle?
Thanks
Paul will put his prices up in due course, but as Andrew has pointed out, there are many variants of his PSUs so it's best to talk to him.
Don't forget other Paul Hynes applications such as the TDR-21 second stage and +9.4V, +5V mini-regulators for the SL-1210, and my 16V PR3 project for the Caiman DAC.
Hi Martin
I'm a bit confused by this. Is this an upgrade that goes within the psu or an upgrade to the internals of the tt itself?
Thanks
The SR3-21 series 3 costs about twice what the SR5-21/27 does.
It does? :scratch:
In that case I don't know what the series 3 does. What I can tell you is that the SR5 left an older SR3 that I compared it with for dead (the SR5 sounded substantially better whereas the SR3 was hardly different from the Timestep).
I'm a bit confused by this. Is this an upgrade that goes within the psu or an upgrade to the internals of the tt itself?
It's an internal regulator mod and requires soldering skills and an understanding of the circuit together with reworking the PCB. If that scares you, then leave well alone. You have many other potential upgrades wanting your attention first.
It does? :scratch:
In that case I don't know what the series 3 does. What I can tell you is that the SR5 left an older SR3 that I compared it with for dead (the SR5 sounded substantially better whereas the SR3 was hardly different from the Timestep).
Sorry Martin it's the other way round:doh:
The SR5 costs about twice what the SR3 series 3 does
Reid Malenfant
16-03-2012, 22:14
Sorry Martin it's the other way round:doh:
The SR5 costs about twice what the SR3 series 3 does
Ah, that'll have Martin sleeping better from now on :D
Sorry Martin it's the other way round:doh:
LOL - what are you like? That makes a lot more sense!
Paul Hynes
17-03-2012, 13:18
Those looking for Paul Hynes SL1200/SL1210 power supply pricing can find it here :
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16655
Regards
Paul
JazzBones
17-03-2012, 14:17
Those looking for Paul Hynes SL1200/SL1210 power supply pricing can find it here :
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16655
Regards
Paul
Good on ya Paul, thats very helpful, now, at last, I can plan my final upgrade :) I will be contacting you sometime with my requirement.
Cheers
Ron
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