3D Printing - Hi-Fi Applications?

[The Grand Wazoo]

I was reading about 3D printing today and it occurred to me to wonder what the properties of the material that's printed could be like.

I did a little poking around in the w's & I found this (http://www.zeitnews.org/applied-sciences/d-shape-3d-printer-can-print-full-sized-houses.html).

So if it's possible to print a house with a material that's apparently indistinguishable from marble, can we build a better hi-fi with such (or other) materials?

And if we can, will it be cheaper or not?

[Macca]

I'd never heard of 3d printers but I now see your point Chris - Speaker cabs of any shape and size, look like marble, solid as concrete, hmmm....

[snuffbox]

And if we can, will it be cheaper or not?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[The Grand Wazoo]

I first heard about it a couple of years ago & it seems to be a pretty fast moving technology. Fascinating.

The first big news, I suppose was when they printed a bike:

http://media.techeblog.com/images/3d-printer-bicycle.jpg

[The Black Adder]

Yep, I saw the Bike thing on telly a while back. It looked a bit shaky but bloody amazing.

[YNWaN]

I am familiar with 3D printers (I have used one). Although a range of plastics can be printed, there is a limit (it may look like marble, for example, but it is not actually marble). 3D printing is usually used for fast prototyping.

However, Ortofon recently used 3D printing technique to produce the A90 cartridge body:

http://www.uptownaudio.com/Ortofon/Ortofon_A90_cartridge.jpg

This technique is at the cutting edge of 3D printing technology. Instead of printing a pure polymer a metallic loaded polymer is used, this is then sintered, fusing the metallic content. This allows very complex shapes to be made but the disadvantage is that the finished item is likely to be brittle and have a very granular grain structure.

[bobbasrah]

Some time ago I remember a video of a flute being constructed using the same technique, pretty sure it was on youtube or similar. The professional player who used it was impressed.
Because it is being built up at such a miniscule scale, it's use in small complex forms is where the technique excels, but is very time consuming....

[Macca]

I am familiar with 3D printers (I have used one). Although a range of plastics can be printed, there is a limit (it may look like marble, for example, but it is not actually marble). .

From the link Chris supplied:

'The D-Shape is potentially capable of printing a two story building - complete with stairs, partition walls, columns, domes, and piping cavities - using only ordinary sand and an inorganic binder. The resulting material is said to be indistinguishable from marble, and exhibits the same physical properties, with durability highly superior to that of masonry and reinforced concrete'

[The Grand Wazoo]

However, Ortofon recently used 3D printing technique to produce the A90 cartridge body...

Oh, OK, so Ortofon are having a go at it. I was thinking bigger structures like enclosures and slabs, but that's a start, eh?



....the disadvantage is that the finished item is likely to be brittle and have a very granular grain structure.

The thing I linked to in the first post might imply that this is not insurmountable.

[YNWaN]

From the link Chris supplied:

'The D-Shape is potentially capable of printing a two story building - complete with stairs, partition walls, columns, domes, and piping cavities - using only ordinary sand and an inorganic binder. The resulting material is said to be indistinguishable from marble, and exhibits the same physical properties, with durability highly superior to that of masonry and reinforced concrete'

I only speak from my own 'first hand' experience. Size is not so much an issue - you just make the printer bigger (you could probably print Corian type materials (these are a bit like marble).

It might be 'possible' to print a house - it would be quicker (and cheaper) to build one though.


The thing I linked to in the first post might imply that this is not insurmountable.

I'm sure such issues can be overcome, the technology is stillquite new. You can buy a 3D printer kit for about £400.

[Macca]

I was thinking more of speaker cabs - you could make any shape, no matter how complex, pretty easily.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I was thinking bigger structures like enclosures and slabs, but that's a start, eh?


Prezacly!

[YNWaN]

Well, you wouldn't print a slab.

In theory it would be possible to print the entire cabinet and driver baskets all as one (well, not in theory, that is definitely possible - but would take ages) - it might even be possible to print the drive unit cones and roll surrounds.

[Macca]

If you were to print a B&W Nautilus cab (the original seashell shape thing), is that possible and how long would it take?

[YNWaN]

It is possible - you would need quite a large (expensive) printer (obviously you would also need all the CAD files).

How long would it take- absolutely ages (a couple of days probably - perhaps more).

[Macca]

It's a viable idea then. Just need to keep a watch on ebay for one :)

[nat8808]

Think of all the fractal like bracing you could engineer in a cabinet.. Aerolam style walls also as well as the internal bracing.

I imagine it could be a good way to make styli too if you could use the right materials.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Aerolam style walls

That was what I had in mind when I clumsily talked about 'slabs' - you could build a sheet with a labyrinthine internal structure.

[Artifolk]

D.I.Y 3D Printer, worth looking into as most of the commercial low end ones produce poor quality structures.

IPmP0u1HuUM snOErpOP5Xk

[bobbasrah]

Found the flute one I recollected, from last summer.... http://youtu.be/zwHgszH0aqI

[Beobloke]

Audio Partnership have a 3D printer and, when I was working at Mordaunt Short, we did a lot of research into optimum flare and shape for loudspeaker ports. Being able to make a prototype of each one we wished to try in a matter of a couple of hours made life as a designer much easier.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Interesting Adam. So it seems that at the moment this idea is good for sort term use items. I wonder how it will evolve as time goes on.

[Beobloke]

Yes, you do have to treat the created models carefully as they are very fragile. I think I only broke one, or maybe two.....:o

[Alex_UK]

Interesting to see on Newsnight tonight how 3d printing is evolving - complex structures involving different types of material, and now metal printing becoming possible. "Additive Manufacturing" looks like a really exciting technology that is developing fast...

(tonight's episode only just finished so not available just yet but will be here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mk25/broadcasts/2012/10 )

[The Grand Wazoo]

That's odd that you should bring this up Alex, I was thinking about this on Friday - I read recently in a forestry trade newsletter that someone has been 3D printing wood structures.

Known as LAYWOO-D3, the material was created by inventor Kai Parthy and it’s made up of 40% recycled wood fibre, combined with a polymer binder. Like other printing materials, it comes in filament spools that are fed into the printer, where they’re melted and subsequently extruded.

Objects made with the material reportedly won’t warp, and can be painted, ground or cut like wood. It will take on a different shade of brown, depending on the temperature at which it’s printed – this means that by intentionally varying that temperature, users can simulate a tree’s growth ring effect.

( http://www.fwpa.com.au//newsletter/print/1104/5 )

[Barry]

I briefly looked into the use of 'fast prototyping' to make waveguide components for radar.

Then (2006/7), our fast prototyper built up structures in 0.25mm layers in some sort of styrene material. These could be metallised with copper but you can imagine the surface roughness caused by the inderlying structure was poor and whilst what I did was to show 'proof of principle', I could not (then) recommend the process for cheap production.

The fact that these 'printers' are able to build up structures in metal looks interesting - but it's early days yet.

There are two problems with the manufacture of speaker enclosures:

(1) rigidity, and lack of cabinet resonance

(2) control of diffraction.

The first will not necessarily be solved using 3D printers, the second could be as this requires the use of 'organic' shapes lacking sharp corners: something that these printers can cope with, provided they are fed with the right code. It may take some time, but no quality product should be churned out.

[nat8808]

Complex bracing would be more easily achieved with 3D printing. A honeycomb structure or complex triangulation type thing throughout the cabinet, perhaps with wadding printed in the gaps using a different material.

Could be done within the cabinet and walls themselves.

[nat8808]

Just realised im repeating myself from back in march, earlier this thread..

[dr.jones]

Do you think in 30 years we'll all have 3d printers in homes. And when something breaks, a plate, a fork, the tv remote, a tap, etc we'll just print another from the millions of pre programmed cad designs? We could call it a replicator...oh, hang on....:lol:

[Alex_UK]

I hadn't thought about the sinister side of 3d printing until I came across this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberator_(gun)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Distributed

Quite frightening, actually! :eek:

[JimR]

I have been wondering for a while whether you could 'print' some multi-cell horns this way. Like the big old Altec ones. The kind that cost a fortune to buy but would be a swine to DIY?