Celestion Ditton 33 v 15XR's

[Wakefield Turntables]

I was wondering if anyone has used 33's before and if they are any better than the 15xr's?

[DSJR]

They're (the 33's) bigger ------- and they were recommended in 'Choice where the XR's weren't....

[Alex_UK]

Ask Andre about 33s... (I seem to recall they are his fave Celestions)

[Wakefield Turntables]

The main reason for me asking about the 33's is that I have some very heavily modded 15xr's and they have great synergy with my Radford valve kit so I wondered if we could improve further with a cheap pair of 33's that i've been offered.

[Alex_UK]

Depends how cheap and in what nick - under £50 in good nick would be ok. More if they're perfect, less if not - I suggest.

[Rare Bird]

The '33's are indeed my favs, 10'' bass units, they use the same 'HD1000' tweeter as the '15XR' The 33's are around 2Ft tall..

[Reid Malenfant]

The 33s being sealed boxes should be a bit easier for a valve amp to control imho ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Nice, looks like I'm gonna try and get some 33's.

[Rare Bird]

Nice one Andrew, i don't think you'll be dissapointurd

[DSJR]

Don't use the OTA 57's as a reference, if the hyped up treble reported by NK in HFW is anything to go by.

Still think the Radford needs summat a wee bit better. Ditton 66's if Celestion, BC1's (with port update) and that sort of thing..

[Rare Bird]

Better! :eek:

[DSJR]

Yes Andr'e :)

[Rare Bird]

No David ;)

[Marco]

Yes, daddee!

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Don't use the OTA 57's as a reference, if the hyped up treble reported by NK in HFW is anything to go by.

Still think the Radford needs summat a wee bit better. Ditton 66's if Celestion, BC1's (with port update) and that sort of thing..

Would you recommend a super tweeter David?

I'd love to get a pair of 66's but the price puts me off! I'm more likely to spend money on my 1210 setup ;) I must admit that I'm getting very addicted to valves which is a statement that I thought that I'd never say! I would like to try some Celestion Ditton 44's, these tend to come up more often and I would suppose they are even better than the 33's??

[Reid Malenfant]

I think you suppose wrong ;) If you want to get close to the 66 then look for a pair of 25 :)

They have the same kind of bass extension as the 66 but the mid & treble drivers are different.

I still reckon the 33 will be the easiest to drive for a valve amp & have the cleanest bass with said amp :cool:

[Marco]

I don't disagree, although you've heard a pair of 66s sound rather good on the end of a nice valve amp! ;)

People at Scalford on Sunday were still going on about the sound we produced in the AoS room last year... I really should fire the 66s up again, as they haven't been used since.

Think I'll pop 'em in the lounge tomorrow, in place of the 15XRs and have a boogie! :dance:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

I don't disagree, although you've heard a pair of 66s sound rather good on the end of a nice valve amp! ;)
True, however I'm sure there must be some difference between an AnthonyTD copper amp & a rather old Radford, good though the Radford may well be :)

A sealed box will give a generally higher impedance over the entire bass range that would be expected to reproduce, so I'd suggest that might be a tad easier to drive than a reflex (passive radiator) enclosure. Not only that but the sealed box naturally damps the driver as well.

Admittedly there wouldn't be a lot in it impedance wise, but with an older amplifier design it might make that little bit of difference :)

[Marco]

I completely agree, Mark - but you've given me an excuse to fire up the 66s again... Should be fun! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

I completely agree, Mark - but you've given me an excuse to fire up the 66s again... Should be fun! :eyebrows:

Marco.
You don't need any excuse & I'm sure you'll have some :D

Catch you about as I'm off to watch a film on the big screen...

Loves having 120" :rfl: Judge Dread (zHtXNcLcVK0) eat ya heart out :ner:

:lol:

[Marco]

Hehehehe... Enjoy, buddy! :D

Marco.

[DSJR]

I think you suppose wrong ;) If you want to get close to the 66 then look for a pair of 25 :)

They have the same kind of bass extension as the 66 but the mid & treble drivers are different.

I still reckon the 33 will be the easiest to drive for a valve amp & have the cleanest bass with said amp :cool:

Late reply, but the 25's are nowhere near as good in the upper mid and treble as 44's, let alone the far superior 66's. I came in when the 25's and 44's were on permanent dem and the 44's were far better to me. The 22's and 33's were more up to date if anything, the slight wardrobey bass quality in 44's being much better tamed I thought.

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK, so it seems that the 33's might not be a good choice. So is there any general consensus of opinion between the 25's and 44's. :scratch:

[tommy6206]

Hi Andrew I have the 15xr's modified for bi amping and a set of 44's and to my ears the 44's a far better easy to drive and a big sound I have mine on stands and sound superb.I've not heard the 25's say can't compare.

[DSJR]

OK, so it seems that the 33's might not be a good choice. So is there any general consensus of opinion between the 25's and 44's. :scratch:

44's - easy!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Andrew I have the 15xr's modified for bi amping and a set of 44's and to my ears the 44's a far better easy to drive and a big sound I have mine on stands and sound superb.I've not heard the 25's say can't compare.


Any chance of a piccie to see how you biamped your cross over?? I've a pair of Quad 77 power amps I use for bi-amping duties! May sound better than my current Radford pre and power amp setup:eyebrows:

[tommy6206]

Will do Andrew when I get a chance.They came to me already modded so not sure whats been done.

[Ali Tait]

Any chance of a piccie to see how you biamped your cross over?? I've a pair of Quad 77 power amps I use for bi-amping duties! May sound better than my current Radford pre and power amp setup:eyebrows:

Doubt it frankly mr shankly. :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

your probably correct but its still neat trying!

[Rare Bird]

Now ive calmed down: Andrew don't let anyone put you off the '33's.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Will do Andrew when I get a chance.They came to me already modded so not sure whats been done.

MANY MANY THANKS! Cant wait!


Now ive calmed down: Andrew don't let anyone put you off the '33's.


Hey dont worry, its only a HiFi forum :lol: I must admit that I've seen and heard a pair of 44's in the wild in a record shop that I haunt. I didn't really think much to them but the amp was pretty $hit! After listening to my XR's and Radford it set my thinking about what was possible with this combination. In an indeal situation I'd rather an extremely knackered pair of 44's or 66's so that I could super modify them, a little like I did with the XR's!

[Jac Hawk]

just got a pair of xr's and was wondering what mods you did Andrew:scratch:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Celestion 15XR Modification List
--------------------------------

1. Replaced speaker binding posts with silver plated alternatives, which take Banana's, spades or bare wire.
2. Internally rewired everything with teflon coated pure silver (4N quality)
3. Rebuilt the X over with new caps, left the inductor alone, it's actually very good quality!
4. Internally dampened speaker with 6mm sorbothane attached to all interinsic speaker walls
5. Removed the X-over's plastic edge connector. All speakers now wired onto the PCB rather than using the edge connector
6. Made bespoke 1mm speaker mounts which replaced the flimsy foam efforts that celestion used.
7. Mounted the x over on a sorbothane bed to minimise vibrations getting to the x-over
8. All soldering utilised 11% pure silver solder
9. Added additional internal foam to dampen speaker down further.

I could have gone further such as :-

1. Additional cross bracing to stiffen the speaker cabinet.
2. Replace all metal screws with plastic (less chance of RFI/EMI being introduced into speaker cabinet)
3. The speakers x-over could have been externally mounted or shielded with a copper cage.
4. You can even solder your speaker cable onto the cross-over pcb and remove another layer of components i.e. the speaker terminals.

There is a time when a man has to say enough is enough!! The speakers weigh an additional 3lb's in weight. They sound excellent with tubes and pretty good with solid state, I prefer listening with Tubes.

[Jac Hawk]

just got the 15 xr's plugged in and i must say in standard form they have a very nice sound, however one speaker seems to sound clearer than the other, as if the tweeter on one is muffled, is that likely to be a crossover problem?

[Rare Bird]

Just swap them over see if the same happens the other side

[Jac Hawk]

Yep the tweeter has a definite lack of output

[Rare Bird]

The 'HD1000' tweeters come up on auction

[Macca]

could it not just be a dodgy connection to the tweeter? I've had this issue with DIY builds combined with my crap soldering.

[Rare Bird]

the little exposed wires near the dome do sometimes get damaged but to be honest they are not worth pissin about with :)

[Reid Malenfant]

It could be the crossover ;) I have seen the shunt inductor on the tweeter side totally melted together on a crossover in the past, that also killed the tweeter output. The tweeter happened to be fine though :)

Looks like a little experimentation is in order :cool:

[Rare Bird]

It could be the crossover ;) I have seen the shunt inductor on the tweeter side totally melted together on a crossover in the past, that also killed the tweeter output. The tweeter happened to be fine though :)

Looks like a little experimentation is in order :cool:

Seems Mike swapped the crossover from the good side but was still the same.

[Reid Malenfant]

Ah, I didn't know that as it didn't appear to be mentioned :scratch:

[Rare Bird]

Ah, I didn't know that as it didn't appear to be mentioned :scratch:

Post #35 & 36 I'm asuming he has with his responce! if not i'm sure Mike will confurm..

[Reid Malenfant]

Hmmm, I see where you are coming from but it wasn't exactly as plain as day :eyebrows:

I mean he could have swapped the tweeters over...

Ah what the hell :lol:

[tommy6206]

Hi Andrew as promised sorry it took so long pics of my Celestion 15x

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0030-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0035-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0032-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0031.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0037.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

Those pix are awesome many thanks for taking the time. I dont have the ability to change the tweeter level on mine :scratch: Do other versions of 15xr's have this ability??? This is really a bit of a mystery to me?? I also can't quite see where on the X-O the bi-amp mod needs to be soldered :scratch: To be really cheeky :o , is there any chance of a close up of the PCB :scratch: Once again many many thanks for taking your time out for the pix! ;)

Andy

[tommy6206]

Hi any No prablem but will have to be another day tho as there back in line again lol and I'll have to take driver out again..

[Wakefield Turntables]

Gary,

What a man! Serioulsy thanks ever so much, looks like I'll be modding the 15's again ;)

[Jac Hawk]

Hmmm, I see where you are coming from but it wasn't exactly as plain as day :eyebrows:

I mean he could have swapped the tweeters over...

Ah what the hell :lol:

yes that's what i did, i swapped the tweeters over and the problem is the tweeter:(

[Reid Malenfant]

Well you know the answer then Mike, you need a working one :(

Have patience as you might pick up a pair of speakers for less than the price of an individual driver as long as you are prepared to play the long game...

[Jac Hawk]

not in any hurry mate:)

[Marco]

Hi Andrew as promised sorry it took so long pics of my Celestion 15x

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0030-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0035-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0032-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0031.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/tommy6206/Temp/DSCF0037.jpg

Soz, chaps, I've just joined this thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but those 15XRs must've been modified, as there is no tweeter level controls or bi-amped terminals, as standard...

Marco.

[tommy6206]

Thats right Marco thats why they have been posted.Its all in the thread.

[bruce]

hi there.I have never had my speakers modded but i have b+w dm4 and could get hold of celestion ditton 15 xr and just wondered do mods ie crossever and wiring really help in getting more detail etc.I have listened to new and expensive speakers and definately there is more detail and hope there may be a possibility to make my speakers sound as good.cheers.

[Rare Bird]

Admin & mods are getting peeved off with new members not following the introduction requirments, seems you have also failed to do this

[technobear]

What's more he failed two months ago :lol:


Anyway, back to the 15XR's...

That crossover looks like 2 coils and 1 cap unless there's more that I can't see.

That would imply first order for the bass and second order for the treble. Interesting.

Anyway, question is what is the value of that cap? Does it mean 10 uFD?

Is it a good cap? Will it have aged so I should replace it anyway? So many questions :scratch:

I like the biwiring mod. I will probably do that as I will be replacing the dreadful original terminals. I think I'll skip the level control though.

[technobear]

Further research reveals that MKP means 'Metallised Polypropylene'.

I think I will rebuild it without the printed circuit board. That can't help the sound. It only aids quick production and testing.

[DSJR]

That cap shouldn't have gone off and I'd be very surprised if one such as this was fitted originally.

The only reason not to use the circuit board is possible interaction of the coils through proximity. The track looks reasonably chunky but adding a layer of low melting point solder to well cleaned track should be enough I reckon.

[technobear]

That cap shouldn't have gone off and I'd be very surprised if one such as this was fitted originally.


Of course, we're looking at a modded cap :doh:

I shall just have to be patient until I open them up :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I used Ansar caps in my rebuild, Andre recommend and supplied them and i think they are excellent. In the end I didnt bother bi-amping mine simply because I think I would start to loose some of the original design of the old speaker. I did modify the hell out of mine but certainly nothing major that would effect it originality. I've heard stories of the tweeters being replaced of the ABR being removed with an additional bass driver, this route wasn't for me.

[Rare Bird]

Anyway, question is what is the value of that cap? Does it mean 10 uFD?



No, the cap value should be 4.7uF