Question about power cables (longish)

[magiccarpetride]

I haven't experimented much with power cables, so please bear with me and try to tolerate my ignorance and foolhardiness. I got my first 'audiophile' power cable about a year ago, and I've installed it on my power amp. I immediately liked how that power cable (Nordost) improved the dynamics and the 'cleanliness ' of sound.

Later on, after chatting with some audiophile friends, I got intrigued by their rants about the liquidity that Shunyata power cables are allegedly famous for. Not being able to resist, I went out and bought three Shunyata power cables. I've installed them on various components in my system, and was indeed pleasantly surprised by the overall change in the sonic character. Quite true, after installing Shunyata power cables, the sound became more liquid, more silky, more pleasant to the ear.

However, after a while, I've started noticing how the overall sound of my system has been transformed into an overly polite, tame sounding hi fi. The dynamics seemed dwarfed, as everything became too pleasant, lacking the kick and the punch and the 'oomph!' and the body. I got a bit disillusioned by that change, and decided to swap the power cables on my power amp. Replaced the Shunyata with the old Nordost, and voila! the sound returned back to its good old impolite kick-ass with tons of 'oomph!'

I'm a bit perplexed here, as I'm not sure whether this entire charade is just placebo, or if others have also noticed the change in the sonic character that different brands of power cables can bring? And please, no attacks on my person -- it's my money, and I have constitutional rights to spend it on as many Shunyata power cables as I wish.

[ursus262]

The only thing I can imagine that may have happened is that, because of the length of the cables, that impedance may be a factor - especially when it comes to sudden current demands for transients. Maybe the new cable was more susceptible to magnifying the impedance due to the length.

Just a thought :)

[realysm42]

I've gone from bog standard to higher grade cables and noticed an improvement in sound; satisfied that it actually does have an impact, I'll be saving up for some higher grade ones, but will definitely be auditioning them before I spend anything, for the very reason you've mentioned, somehing might sound different, but perhaps not better!

[Tarzan]

l believe in aftermarket power cords,l have a Nordost Shiva, and in some applications can be spectacular, but in other applications can be too Nordostic,lean, bleached etc, what l think you have to do is mix and match, l could be wrong buying three of the same brand cords you will get the same sound characteristics trebled, just my humble opinion formed in my system:)

[ursus262]

Belden cable is rather good

[magiccarpetride]

l believe in aftermarket power cords,l have a Nordost Shiva, and in some applications can be spectacular, but in other applications can be too Nordostic,lean, bleached etc, what l think you have to do is mix and match, l could be wrong buying three of the same brand cords you will get the same sound characteristics trebled, just my humble opinion formed in my system:)

Yes, I fell in love with the Shunyata effect, which is creating an exceedingly pleasant, liquid, easy on the ear sound. But at the detriment of the muscle, slam, overall dynamics. So you're right -- these things have to be properly balanced. But it really is down to personal taste.

Now with Nordost in my power amp (and plugged straight into the wall outlet), things are back to muscular, slam, kick, but (ironically) I find that I wish the sound was a tad more silky. Seems like 3 Shunyata cables, powering my power conditioner, my digital transport, and my pre amp, are not enough to overrule Nordost. Can't win!

What application of your Nordost was spectacular, and which one was bleached?

[magiccarpetride]

I've gone from bog standard to higher grade cables and noticed an improvement in sound; satisfied that it actually does have an impact, I'll be saving up for some higher grade ones, but will definitely be auditioning them before I spend anything, for the very reason you've mentioned, somehing might sound different, but perhaps not better!

True, and also even if it ends up sounding better (as in better resolution etc.), it may not be to your taste:)

[realysm42]

Have you tried using one of the Shunyata cables in the power amp and having the Nordost in something else, ie your primary source of music?

Don't know if this would even make a difference but I can't see why it wouldn't.

[DSJR]

I'm still a fan of the Mark Grant power cables. Why? Because the current rating of the cable is higher than I can reasonably buy and terminate myself, because the costs aren't prohibitive until you put w@nky plugs on each end (you pays your money and takes your choice on this one) and because it's well put together and having heard screened mains cables before, I believe they can work in certain situations.

Whether the MG mains cables are better than 15A twin and earth I really cannot say, but the latter are so difficult to work with and so, well, "horrible," I'm well happy and shall get some more shorter ones as and when.

So there :ner:

[magiccarpetride]

Have you tried using one of the Shunyata cables in the power amp and having the Nordost in something else, ie your primary source of music?

Don't know if this would even make a difference but I can't see why it wouldn't.

Yes, I've tried Nordost on the pre amp. Very noticeable difference, the sound becomes wimpier but much more pleasant and easy on the ear. Haven't tried it on my digital transport yet.

[Reid Malenfant]

I'm still a fan of the Mark Grant power cables. Why? Because the current rating of the cable is higher than I can reasonably buy and terminate myself, because the costs aren't prohibitive until you put w@nky plugs on each end (you pays your money and takes your choice on this one) and because it's well put together and having heard screened mains cables before, I believe they can work in certain situations.

Whether the MG mains cables are better than 15A twin and earth I really cannot say, but the latter are so difficult to work with and so, well, "horrible," I'm well happy and shall get some more shorter ones as and when.

So there :ner:
:rfl:

I'm with you on the MG cables though :) My whole rack & a whole lot else is wired up with his screened cables, I won't be contemplating changing the stuff either!

Just to make a point I received another custom length MG DSP 1.0 cable this very day :cool:

[Tarzan]

Yes, I fell in love with the Shunyata effect, which is creating an exceedingly pleasant, liquid, easy on the ear sound. But at the detriment of the muscle, slam, overall dynamics. So you're right -- these things have to be properly balanced. But it really is down to personal taste.

Now with Nordost in my power amp (and plugged straight into the wall outlet), things are back to muscular, slam, kick, but (ironically) I find that I wish the sound was a tad more silky. Seems like 3 Shunyata cables, powering my power conditioner, my digital transport, and my pre amp, are not enough to overrule Nordost. Can't win!

What application of your Nordost was spectacular, and which one was bleached?

Alex, l have had a few wow moments with the Shiva, currently l have purchased a new CD player- l will do a review soon as l have had a few system changes, on the CD player- The Shiva transformed it, also had great success with the fabled Mini-T and Muse M50 t -AMP, also had good results with the Mark Grant 2.5 also, but l would have to say wind in the right direction the Shiva for me can be quite special, but having too many in one system could be a bit much:)

[Disles1]

I've read that an unshielded power cable is best for analog components, such as tube preamp, while shielded cables are best for digital components. It may have something to do with reducing the capacitive coupling between the inner conductors and safety ground, but I'm not an expert on this or any other electronics questions.

[ursus262]

:rfl:

I'm with you on the MG cables though :) My whole rack & a whole lot else is wired up with his screened cables, I won't be contemplating changing the stuff either!

That's what I like about being on here. I've picked up so many useful bits of advice - I use MG interconnects, and the Mains Cables R Us mains cables. Both have worked out very well on my system.

It's also heartening that these traders are small business people who earn a living providing quality and vfm products that you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. :cool:

[Reid Malenfant]

That's what I like about being on here. I've picked up so many useful bits of advice - I use MG interconnects, and the Mains Cables R Us mains cables. Both have worked out very well on my system.

It's also heartening that these traders are small business people who earn a living providing quality and vfm products that you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. :cool:
I can't say I have tried any of Davids products as of yet :scratch:

However, like you say they both provide a service that is beyond reproach & doesn't appear to be available for anything less than arm bending money at alternative companies.

This, apart from the fact that I love what MGs custom mains cable does is why I'm also more than willing to throw money at the bloke when I need something. You also get the personal touch, a while ago I PM'd Mark about his 1M glass optical cables as his site said they were out of stock. Well he remembered as when I rang him to make this order he happened to have found one, saved it for me & reminded me on the phone :D Then he gave me a superb price on the whole lot :)

It really doesn't get much better than that!

[doodoos]

I've been using a loom of Audioworks Revive for a year or two but have found the sound can be a bit 'heavy' Too fullsome although with a lot of depth. The Ref 5 pre sounds much more lively with the cord in the box so will stick with that. Also recently removed the Revive from the cdp for a kettle cord type and whilst the sound is a little thinner in the mid I can hear more of what's going on and the bass is better defined. Sometimes less is more!

[MartinT]

Alex - have you tried feeding your filter/distribution with the Nordost cable and using the Shunyatas for the component feeds?

[sq225917]

Honestly.

http://gallery.kiteforum.com/albums/album96/YOU_MAY_AS_WELL.jpg

;-)

[YNWaN]

What those cables need is a bit of carbon fibre wrapped round the plugs (to do nano electrostatic bollocks). ;)

[Marco]

Oi, Simon - behave! ;)

Marco.

[ursus262]

:lol:

[Marco]

I've been using a loom of Audioworks Revive for a year or two but have found the sound can be a bit 'heavy' Too fullsome although with a lot of depth. The Ref 5 pre sounds much more lively with the cord in the box so will stick with that. Also recently removed the Revive from the cdp for a kettle cord type and whilst the sound is a little thinner in the mid I can hear more of what's going on and the bass is better defined. Sometimes less is more!

I can relate to what you say, Robin, as in the past I've had a lot of experience with using Audioworks mains cables and their various equipment support systems.

In all instances, I've found the sonic presentation of their mains cables to be overblown in the bass, whilst at the same time, sounding a little hard and brittle in the treble, although 'tuneful'. That type of tonal presentation most definitely represents the 'house sound' of those cables - in an 'alien' system.

However, the effect is usually rather different when you adopt using their complete support/cable loom solution, as in their acrylic racks, mains cables and MIT interconnects, together with their favourite brands of equipment and speakers. The reason why ordinary 'kettle leads' improve on some aspects of the MW cables you're using, is likely because of the above and also because they're highlighting the 'house sound' of the latter.

Larry has a very definite idea on how he thinks music should be reproduced, and you either like it, and buy into the approach, or you don't. Although I like Larry as a person, I'm in the latter camp, as far as the most of the systems he puts together are concerned.

In that respect, it's rather like Linn and Naim equipment: you'll only hear from the equipment what's intended by the manufacturer, by following a certain approach or system-building methodology.

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Alex - have you tried feeding your filter/distribution with the Nordost cable and using the Shunyatas for the component feeds?

Good advice Martin, I tried that yesterday. With Nordost plugged into the wall outlet and driving the Belkin power conditioner, and 3 Shunyata cables feeding components off the power conditioner, the overall sonic character indeed changes. The bass became a bit more articulate, tighter, easier to follow, and more melodic, while still retaining the kick and the punch. But the overall sound appears to have hardened a bit (sounds a bit colder). Not necessarily in a bad way, because I'm enjoying a lot of 'air' and previously undetected longer decays, but it's not as lush as when I'm feeding my power amp with Shunyata plugged directly into the wall.

What amazes me is the sheer complexity of various permutations and recombinations and how many of those alter the sonic character. What amazes me even more is to learn that there are people who seem impervious to these changes, and who insist that all power cables sound absolutely the same.

[MartinT]

Shocking, isn't it?

Not that it makes it easy to devise rules about power cable choice and setup, as you have discovered. It's a minefield and when you find a formula that works for you (my system uses Russ Andrews/Kimber Powerkords), stick with it and change things only carefully, ensuring that you can go back if necessary. I have learned this the hard way - for instance, the one time I bought a Nordost power cable (a silver El Dorado) I didn't like it at all.

[magiccarpetride]

Shocking, isn't it?

Not that it makes it easy to devise rules about power cable choice and setup, as you have discovered. It's a minefield and when you find a formula that works for you (my system uses Russ Andrews/Kimber Powerkords), stick with it and change things only carefully, ensuring that you can go back if necessary. I have learned this the hard way - for instance, the one time I bought a Nordost power cable (a silver El Dorado) I didn't like it at all.

Is there a particular sonic quality to Powerkords?

[MartinT]

Is there a particular sonic quality to Powerkords?

If I could attribute a character in isolation I would say that they lower the noise floor due to good RFI isolation and improve dynamics compared with a standard cable.