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Pete
24-12-2008, 17:17
Hi Folks,

So here is my vinyl rig so far:

Technics SL-1210 Mk5
Kab psu
Kab Strobe disabler
Cardas rewired tonearm
Zupreme headshell w/lp gear leads
Mk5 gold cable with copper eichmanns
Funkfirm 5mm Achromat
sitting on a 2" thick myrtle wood base

Denon DL-160 cart set up to Baerwald alignment

DIY Nelson Pass Pearl Phono stage

Grover UR8 rca ICs

Denon AVR-3808Ci (currently acting as the premp) :(
Adcom GRA-5400 Power Amp (borrowed)
Odyssey Candela Tube Pre amp (Dec 31st) :)
Odyssey Stratos + stereo amp (Dec 31st) :)

Paradigm Reference 100 v.4 speakers

So far the system sound very good to me. Probably take a leap once the Odyssey components arrive.

What do you think I should do next as far as the turntable is concerned?

Should I spike the TT into the myrtle block, or do isonoe feet?

How much more can I get out of the stock arm?
If I upgrade arms, there seem to be many choices, in no particular order:

SME 309 ($1300) or M2-9 (??)
Origin Live Silver Mk 2 ($650)
Jelco SA-750D ($450)
Reworked Rega 250 ($350)

What arm would you recommend, and why?

I see that one member makes custom weights for the stock arm.
Is this a way to go forward with the stock arm.

Or should I think about a cart upgrade before ditching the stock arm?

Cheers,
Pete

muffinman
24-12-2008, 17:33
Hi Pete,
how long have you had the deck in its' current form?
just wondering if you've had time to fully appreciate all your improvements and therefore get the full benefits of your proposed upgrades
fwiw - i think marco will tell you to get the jelco. your cardas should be pretty easy to shift if you like the new'un
(you may hear about the 103 also:))

Pete
24-12-2008, 18:00
I've had the deck probably for about six months is its current configuration.

Only recent change, was putting in the Adcom amp vs. the Denon receiver's amp. Huge leap in sound quality. That spurred my to buy the Odyssey pre and stereo amps.

I honestly like the sound right now.
But as always, you don't know what you're missing till you hear it :)

Pete
28-12-2008, 20:54
Anyone have any comments? Marco?

Marco
28-12-2008, 21:10
Hi Pete,

Sorry for the late reply but I've just noticed this - will come back to you tomorow in some detail when I have more time :)

Marco.

John
28-12-2008, 21:18
Remember hearing the Odyssey pre and power along with the Loriel speakers a few years back nice gear. Unable to comment around the 1210 but below is a good link
http://www.sl-1200-mk2.com/

Pete
29-12-2008, 14:49
Dave has a special going in January for the SME 309 arm.

I am tempted, but I would like to hear of any SME 300, IV or V owners who mounted them on a Technics SL, and their results.

sastusbulbas
29-12-2008, 15:12
Not heard what the SME does in a Technics, but an SME 309 or IV is what I intend/would like to fit to a Technics 1210 when I get round to selling some stuff and a few other things. I would rather have an SME 309 than any Rega or such.

Aesthetically the 309 would look superb and is a great arm and probably going to give you 90% of the IV in that type of deck, the 1210 "may" hold back an IV slightly but who knows?

Thing is though the SME Technics combo may sound a little sterile and clinical?

Dave Cawley
29-12-2008, 15:45
The SME 309 would be great at £799.00 in our Christmas sale http://www.soundhifi.com/SME/index.html

Dave

Arlequen
30-12-2008, 16:24
Remember hearing the Odyssey pre and power along with the Loriel speakers a few years back nice gear. Unable to comment around the 1210

I just put on sale both Odyssey Audio gears you were describing
Very good SS preamp and amp .. and super fine phono section MM/MC too

Speaking about the SL1200 .. I have had and still own a loved SL1210 for many years and I strongly suggest to set up the cartridge leaving the stock arm but using the MintLP Best Tractor.
It changes totally the way to sound .. going from a good TT to a very super good TT
I suggest to buy this tractor before to change its stock arm.

http://www.mintlp.com

Beechwoods
30-12-2008, 17:54
Thanks for the mint protractor recommendation. I've dropped them a line about my setup; a stock Goldring Lenco GL75.

Arlequen
30-12-2008, 18:04
Thanks for the mint protractor recommendation..

You're welcome
I'm waiting for another MintLP tractor for my Raven One - Michell Tecnoarm
It's on the fly , it left HK the 17 Dec .. but unfortunately , here , these days are the worst of the whole year for postal service :(
I know .. even if I can make a perfect setup of my cartridge with the paper rega template .. the result with the MintLP 'll be much - much and much better

Pete
01-01-2009, 15:29
Well after a long series of emails and a long talk on the phone with Dave C. (and a very good deal), I ended up ordering an SME 309 for my SL-1210MK5 :)

I'll post pics when I get it, and of the surgical procedure as its installed.

Happy New Year!! (not for my credit card though....)

MartinT
01-01-2009, 18:29
If the 309 is 90% of the SME IV then you're in for a fantastic listening experience. The 1210 already does structural bass, wait 'til you hear what the SME does! Lovely arm.

Pete
23-01-2009, 03:43
Just got my Zyx Airy 3X cartridge. Mounted and listening :smoking:

Still have my modded Technics arm. The SME 309 arm is still at SME in England :confused:

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture465-petes-vinyl-rig-01.jpg

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture466-petes-vinyl-rig-03.jpg

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture467-petes-vinyl-rig-04.jpg

Peter Stockwell
23-01-2009, 08:01
Pete,

Nice photo, about the 309, now I know why Dave C. was getting confused when I was talking to him ;) .

I've got a new arm on the way, from the same supplier, and Like you I'm anxious to get it installed. I heard a Zyx on a Mörch/Platine Verdier a while back and it sounded great, the system fell apart on rock but I think it was the room/speaker interface more than anything else.

I've got an AT33PTG waiting to be installed in a new arm, and I have Dave C's feet and audiophile mat waiting to arrive too. I just ordered an RS acoustics Granite composite base for my Teccie. I have the KAB psu, but I'm waiting for Richard (Gromit) to dislike his recently ordered Time Step psu ;)

I'll swap pics with you when all that is up and running.

Cheers

Marco
23-01-2009, 09:55
Hi Pete,

I'm not getting the pictures - just three white squares with red crosses inside...

You need to move the pictures from being hosted on "head-case.org/forums" to something like Photobucket or Imageshack so that people who aren't members of that forum can also view them. At the moment, if you're not a registed member, and logged-in, they aren't visible :)

Cheers,
Marco.

Clive
23-01-2009, 10:27
The pics are visible for me, I'm not a member of head-case.

jonners
23-01-2009, 10:27
Good pics - they're visible to me and I'm not a head case........member.

John

Pete
23-01-2009, 15:34
Pete,

Nice photo, about the 309, now I know why Dave C. was getting confused when I was talking to him ;) .

I've got a new arm on the way, from the same supplier, and Like you I'm anxious to get it installed. I heard a Zyx on a Mörch/Platine Verdier a while back and it sounded great, the system fell apart on rock but I think it was the room/speaker interface more than anything else.

I've got an AT33PTG waiting to be installed in a new arm, and I have Dave C's feet and audiophile mat waiting to arrive too. I just ordered an RS acoustics Granite composite base for my Teccie. I have the KAB psu, but I'm waiting for Richard (Gromit) to dislike his recently ordered Time Step psu ;)

I'll swap pics with you when all that is up and running.

Cheers

I am thinking of modding my KAB PSU to output 21volts (like the timestep psu) and bypass the internal voltage reg in the 1210. I have the Funkfirm 5mm mat and stock feet which I will probably swap out with some sorbothane concoction at some point.

Apparently Dave C. has new design 1200 armboards for the SME arms, but they are not quite ready yet, but probably worth waiting for.

We need pics!

Marco
23-01-2009, 15:43
They're visible to me now, but they weren't before. What did you do, Pete? :)

Marco.

Pete
23-01-2009, 15:50
They're visible to me now, but they weren't before. What did you do, Pete? :)

Marco.

I didn't do anything :confused:

Sometimes browsers are funny.

MartinT
23-01-2009, 16:05
That Zyx sure looks a big cartridge!

Did Dave tell you what the difference is between his standard mounting plates and the new expensive ones?

Peter Stockwell
23-01-2009, 18:38
From the Website, I infer that the plates are a composite, some kind of CLD (Constrained Layer Device/Damping).

Pete
24-01-2009, 02:25
From the Website, I infer that the plates are a composite, some kind of CLD (Constrained Layer Device/Damping).

I don't know anything more on them.

Marco
24-01-2009, 09:47
Hi Pete,

Got any plans to upgrade the Techy arm? As good as your ZYX is you're probably only hearing about 70% of its potential :)

Marco.

MartinT
24-01-2009, 11:14
From the Website, I infer that the plates are a composite, some kind of CLD (Constrained Layer Device/Damping).

Dave, I'd love to know more, and what difference in sound there is between the standard plate and new design.

Gromit
24-01-2009, 14:23
Dave, I'd love to know more, and what difference in sound there is between the standard plate and new design.

Indeed - and are there any plans to make a version for the 3-point mounting Rega arms?

Pete
24-01-2009, 14:29
Hi Pete,

Got any plans to upgrade the Techy arm? As good as your ZYX is you're probably only hearing about 70% of its potential :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,

I have an SME 309 on order from SoundHiFi :)

Marco
24-01-2009, 15:20
Hi Marco,

I have an SME 309 on order from SoundHiFi :)

Oh boy, have you got a MASSIVE upgrade to look forward to! :)

Marco.

MartinT
24-01-2009, 15:29
Oh boy, have you got a MASSIVE upgrade to look forward to!

Not to mention an absolutely gorgeous piece of kit to admire!

Marco
24-01-2009, 15:37
LOL. Indeed :)

Once you've done that, Pete, you need to add a Time Step PSU (if you haven't already done so), some new feet, and you're ready to rock and roll :gig:

Marco.

Pete
24-01-2009, 20:06
I might just mod the KAB psu to a similar fuctionality as the Timestep psu.

I think I will look into some kind of sorbothane feet from Herbies.

Iis been a long wait for the SME 309 (ordered before Christmas) but I'm sure it will be worth it when it gets here.

A buddy of mine is picking up an SME 10 turntable with SME 10 arm today:)
I believe his tonearm is almost identical to the 309 arm, so we will be setting that up today. Good practice for me when my 309 gets here :)

Marco
24-01-2009, 20:23
Hi Pete,

I didn't realise that you had the KAB psu. I wouldn't bother altering anything then if I were you.

What mat are you using? I looks either like the thick rubber mat or an Achromat...

Marco.

chris@panteg
24-01-2009, 20:24
Hi
I used to have the SME 310 identical to your 309 just 10' version, lovely arm
i had some living voice arm leads ' god i wish i still had it :doh:

DSJR
24-01-2009, 20:52
I'm so out of date, but the 309 did lovely things with a Troika (special SME drilled headshell) on an LP12...

The most I'll ever have to look at is the M2, which looks good as long as you're not using a 103 :), although that Jelco, while it's under £500, looks to be excellent value (I bet the next batch will be much more expensive).

Pete
24-01-2009, 21:17
5mm achromat.

MartinT
24-01-2009, 21:54
I think I will look into some kind of sorbothane feet from Herbies

I wouldn't bother when Foculpods (otherwise known as Feet 1 by Sound Hi-Fi) fit right in when you unscrew the Technics feet.

Marco
25-01-2009, 08:01
A buddy of mine is picking up an SME 10 turntable with SME 10 arm today
I believe his tonearm is almost identical to the 309 arm, so we will be setting that up today. Good practice for me when my 309 gets here

It would be interesting to compare his SME10 to your modded Techy when you get your new tonearm fitted... I think that I can predict the outcome ;)

Marco.

Dave Cawley
25-01-2009, 08:47
The new plates allow for correct VTA adjustment. You may see others where two plates are separated by some simple thin spacers to get the bottom plate lower. These small spacers are resonant and effectively decouple the arm as well. Not an awfully good idea. So our new plate is made of three blocks of aluminium. The dissipation of this effective 'lump of metal' is very good indeed. Tweakers can try very thin layers of rubber or even blotting paper, either on one or both layers. For the DL-103 best results will be obtained with everything locked up solid. The extra cost is going to Germany and also having them anodised in silver and black. If we could find some one in the UK that could laser cut and anodise, and can be arsed with small orders, it would be cheaper!

As for a Rega version, well we are talking about improving the SL-1200 and a standard Rega arm does not fare well in our system. We will be dumping our Rega arms and a couple of original Soundsuport plates on eBay in a few weeks.

Our quest is all about fidelity not fashion. www.SL-1200-MK2.com

Marco, do you want to bring your SL-1210 to http://www.chestergroup.org/index.php?option=com_shows&Itemid=31&task=detail&id=11 and chat with AOS members? I'll give you some room on our stand for free if you buy the coffee?

Regards

Dave

MartinT
25-01-2009, 09:36
Dave, if I read that right I do not need the new plate style for my Jelco with its VTA adjustment and lack of need for decoupling?

Marco
25-01-2009, 10:31
Marco, do you want to bring your SL-1210 to http://www.chestergroup.org/index.ph...k=detail&id=11 and chat with AOS members? I'll give you some room on our stand for free if you buy the coffee?


Sounds like a plan, Dave - thanks for that :)

It will depend what I'm up to nearer the time, but I like the idea. We can chat about it more when I come down to visit and get the arm plate fitted and indulge in general shenanigans, which I presume will be before the London show? ;)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2009, 10:39
So our new plate is made of three blocks of aluminium. The dissipation of this effective 'lump of metal' is very good indeed. Tweakers can try very thin layers of rubber or even blotting paper, either on one or both layers. For the DL-103 best results will be obtained with everything locked up solid. The extra cost is going to Germany and also having them anodised in silver and black.
...

As for a Rega version, well we are talking about improving the SL-1200 and a standard Rega arm does not fare well in our system. We will be dumping our Rega arms and a couple of original Soundsuport plates on eBay in a few weeks.

Our quest is all about fidelity not fashion. www.SL-1200-MK2.com



Interesting info there. I presume when you are talking Rega arms, you mean the unmodded 250 ?

I'm still itching with impatience to get my new arm installed, I hope that your supplier is true to their promise.

I listened to what was my Garrard 401/Spacearm with a Benz Ace cart, into some vintage McIntosh pre and power with Rogers LS5/9 and LS3/5a speakers. When I got home I had a listen to my SL1210, and I much preferred my system with the Teccie. I regret the 401 as an "objet d'art" but I have to think that DD pedigree TTs throuroughly made it obsolete.

I do wonder how an SME 10 stacks up against a Time Stepped or Kab'ed SL1210, tho' ?

cheers

Pete
25-01-2009, 14:10
I do wonder how an SME 10 stacks up against a Time Stepped or Kab'ed SL1210, tho' ?

cheers

The SME 10 arm was fairly easy to set up, but it has very little clearance between the arm lift and the bottom of the arm tube, which can be a problem if you want to set up a cart slightly tail high. It seems the little lift arm doesn't go all the way down, maybe that's the design??

Compared to his Thorens 125MkII, my buddy said he could hear more powerful and controlled bass. He is running 'The Statement' Grado cart.
Nice sounding system, but his Modwright Phono tube stage has a hum.

Its hard to compare my system to his, since he has Conrad Johnson tube gear out to his Martin Logan CLS speakers. I doubt he would want to move his table now or do cart swaps.

His system has a warm sound to it and is a little rolled off to my ears, and little short on dynamics. But this is how he likes it.

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2009, 14:33
Its hard to compare my system to his, since he has Conrad Johnson tube gear out to his Martin Logan CLS speakers. I doubt he would want to move his table now or do cart swaps.

His system has a warm sound to it and is a little rolled off to my ears, and little short on dynamics. But this is how he likes it.

I listened to a system like that yesterday, with my old turntable in it, sounded muffled. I have limited experience of Martin Logan speakers, the only system I heard with them sent me to sleep.:scratch:

Pete
25-01-2009, 14:45
I listened to a system like that yesterday, with my old turntable in it, sounded muffled. I have limited experience of Martin Logan speakers, the only system I heard with them sent me to sleep.:scratch:

Yup, a bit lacking in transparency and dynamics. Too many tube stages (phono, preamp, amp) ...

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2009, 16:22
Yup, a bit lacking in transparency and dynamics. Too many tube stages (phono, preamp, amp) ...

inneresting, the one I listened to yesterday was a restored 60s McIntosh preamp, an 80s trannie power amp and some Rogers LS5/9s. It didn't sound bad, but it didn't sound right either.

Marco
25-01-2009, 16:33
That's a very interesting comment. It almost presumes that tube gear is automatically lacking in transparency and dynamics, which is an absolute and utter fallacy...

Well, allow me to correct that - poorly designed 'badge' tube gear might be like that (I've often heard this criticism aimed at CJ equipment), but not stuff that's been properly designed from the ground up where the money has been spent where it matters, under the hood, and where the circuit used isn't simply some re-hashed, poorly implemented copy of an ancient 1950s Quad design or whatever...

The reason that I moved from solid-state gear to tubes in the first place is because of their (massively) superior transparency and dynamics, compared even to my 200W £6000 ECS monoblocks, each one sporting a 1500VA transformer! This is certainly what my Croft preamp and 30W Class A KT88 Copper amp deliver in spades :)

This stereotyping of tube gear as being somehow 'warm and soggy' sounding needs to be dispelled once and for all for the over-hyped nonsense that it is.

Sorry for the 'rant', Pete, but I think that your friend should consider buying some decent tube gear and then he'll get all the transparency and dynamics he can handle - or perhaps that isn't quite his thing? ;)

Marco.

Ali Tait
25-01-2009, 16:39
I don't think it matters how many valve stages you have.If they are correctly designed,the system will sound great.There are also the impedance matching issues to think of.I feel this issue is often overlooked in making components work well together.

Marco
25-01-2009, 16:45
Indeed, Ali. Your Chinese SET amp most certainly doesn't lack transparency and dynamics :eyebrows:

With the right music, it would wake the dead! :fingers:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
25-01-2009, 17:13
inneresting, the one I listened to yesterday was a restored 60s McIntosh preamp, an 80s trannie power amp and some Rogers LS5/9s. It didn't sound bad, but it didn't sound right either.

I think it was down to installation, and the room, more than anything else. The TT was on top of a "built in cupboard", in the cupboard was the preamp on top of the poweramp.

It certainly didn't sound as clear as my Naim stuff, like I said it didn't sound bad, it did have some body to instruments and voices but didn't display the, for want of a better word, clarity that I like.

Moving on ..

I think my speakers are blocking my system now, I think they've become the weakest link :(

yikes.

chris@panteg
25-01-2009, 17:29
That's a very interesting comment. It almost presumes that tube gear is automatically lacking in transparency and dynamics, which is an absolute and utter fallacy...

Well, allow me to correct that - poorly designed 'badge' tube gear might be like that (I've often heard this criticism aimed at CJ equipment), but not stuff that's been properly designed from the ground up where the money has been spent where it matters, under the hood, and where the circuit used isn't simply some re-hashed, poorly implemented copy of an ancient 1950s Quad design or whatever...

The reason that I moved from solid-state gear to tubes in the first place is because of their (massively) superior transparency and dynamics, compared even to my 200W £6000 ECS monoblocks, each one sporting a 1500VA transformer! This is certainly what my Croft preamp and 30W Class A KT88 Copper amp deliver in spades :)

This stereotyping of tube gear as being somehow 'warm and soggy' sounding needs to be dispelled once and for all for the over-hyped nonsense that it is.

Sorry for the 'rant', Pete, but I think that your friend should consider buying some decent tube gear and then he'll get all the transparency and dynamics he can handle - or perhaps that isn't quite his thing? ;)

Marco.

Marco

like you say a well designed valve amp delivers a sound that SS simply cannot match, but unfortunately there are still many valve amps some cheap and some relatively expensive designs that cut corners and use solid state rectifiers' a prime example would be my old 2nd audio 2a3 mono's .

When i bought the Border patrol psu's i did the installation myself and took out the SS rectifiers they looked like large resistors with a built in heatsink.

The BP used a gz37 rectifier and the difference in sound was amazing
the good thing is many modern valve amps now use valve rectified choke input smoothing.

Marco
25-01-2009, 20:30
Peter,


I think it was down to installation, and the room, more than anything else. The TT was on top of a "built in cupboard", in the cupboard was the preamp on top of the poweramp.


Jeez, I think the least said about that the better...! :eyebrows:


I regret the 401 as an "objet d'art" but I have to think that DD pedigree TTs throuroughly made it obsolete.


Mmm... You know how much I love the Techy but I think you're being a tad premature there. No doubt that's what you've heard though because you're more than familiar now with both decks, however I suspect that your 401 isn't quite up to scratch, or something is not quite right. I say that quite simply, Peter, because the 301s and 401s I've heard and compared with my Techy have all been absolutely fabulous, and in some areas have bettered it. It was definitely not a case of the Techy 'trouncing' any of the Garrards.

In terms of bass weight and extension a properly mounted 301 or 401 trumps any direct-drive T/T I've heard, even an SP10; there is a real punch and visceral quality in that area which is simply quite stunning. However, where the Technics decks score over the Garrards, in my opinion, is in their unerring accuracy in terms of pitch and timing (no doubt a by-product of their superb speed stability). The Garrards aren't exactly lacking here (far from it) but the Technics decks just nail this aspect of the presentation down more convincingly for me.

To my ears, the Technics decks are also more incisive in the way they cut to the heart of the music with an effortless sense of calm and ease, and with it rock solid stability and control, which gives little impression that one is listening to a stylus tracking vinyl grooves: it's a very 'CD-like' presentation, but CD with real 'heart and soul'. Tonally, the Technics decks are 'cooler' and a little more clincial sounding, however I would put that down to them being somewhat less coloured than the Garrards, which have more euphonic warmth and thus can be more of a 'romantic' listen, particularly when the likes of an Ortofon SPU is used. However if someone were to remove my Techy one night and leave a nice 301 in a suitable plinth in its place I could live with it very easily :)

Do you think your Bastin plinth might be a bit of a leveller? All the good Garrards I've heard have been in Slatedeck plinths. Oh, and on that note, I've got no doubt that the quality of slate varies enormously, especially in terms of the inherent resonant qualities of each type which is fundamental to its efficacy as a suitable turntable plinth. I also think that having double layers of slate is better than just a single layer, and I prefer highly polished slate to the dull unfinished stuff, which for me can look rather drab. I'm undecided yet as to which type of plinth to have made for my Techy, but it'll either be a double layer Slatedeck job or the solid and inert real wood type that Dave Cawley uses.

Marco.

Pete
25-01-2009, 21:08
That's a very interesting comment. It almost presumes that tube gear is automatically lacking in transparency and dynamics, which is an absolute and utter fallacy...

Sorry for the 'rant', Pete, but I think that your friend should consider buying some decent tube gear and then he'll get all the transparency and dynamics he can handle - or perhaps that isn't quite his thing? ;)

Marco.

Marco,

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

Maybe his components are chosen to give the sound he likes, including the tube equipment, ICs and speakers.

Since its expensive tube stuff, I just assumed tubes was the cause of the sound signature he gets. But it may be that other variables are at play.

I didn't say he had terrible dynamics, or extension, just that I've heard more.

Marco
26-01-2009, 07:16
Hi Pete,

No feathers ruffled here, mate :)

I just wanted to reinforce the fact that not all tube gear sounds as you described your friend's stuff. It's important I feel to stress this as the stereotypical image of tube gear you were portraying is widespread and it could people off who don't know any better :cool:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
26-01-2009, 09:27
I think you're being a tad premature there. No doubt that's what you've heard though because you're more than familiar now with both decks, however I suspect that your 401 isn't quite up to scratch, or something is not quite right. I say that quite simply, Peter, because the 301s and 401s I've heard and compared with my Techy have all been absolutely fabulous, and in some areas have bettered it. It was definitely not a case of the Techy 'trouncing' any of the Garrards.


No, I think my (his) 401 is up to scratch, it sounded awesome at my gaff the weekend prior, better than I'd heard it for some time. For some ears it would have been preferable to the Teccie, especially if you favour "drive" over "subtlety". I just think it imposes it's signature more than the Kab'd technics does.



In terms of bass weight and extension a properly mounted 301 or 401 trumps any direct-drive T/T I've heard, even an SP10; there is a real punch and visceral quality in that area which is simply quite stunning.


I'd agree with that, but, now, I think that there's more to music than hell for leather.



To my ears, the Technics decks are also more incisive in the way they cut to the heart of the music with an effortless sense of calm and ease, and with it rock solid stability and control, which gives little impression that one is listening to a stylus tracking vinyl grooves: it's a very 'CD-like' presentation, but CD with real 'heart and soul'. Tonally, the Technics decks are 'cooler' and a little more clincial sounding,


Not sure about that, I think cartridge/mat/feet choices are going to come into play here. I think that between the CDS/XPS and the current state of affaires with my Kab'd 1210 that it comes down to the mastering as to which sounds best. The installation being optimised around the CDX/XPS mostly, I haven't invested as much in the Teccie compared with the CDX/XPS, if I include the HiLine then I've put 5000€ into the CD and 1000€ into the teccie, I think that the next evolutions, arm, artridge and finally phonostage will make a big difference. With the Shure V15 type IV and the Jico stylus it's detailed and probably lacking in treble extension, but I still don't find the CDX/XPS in anyway bright or agressive (some will say I'm deaf!)



Do you think your Bastin plinth might be a bit of a leveller? All the good Garrards I've heard have been in Slatedeck plinths. Oh, and on that note, I've got no doubt that the quality of slate varies enormously, especially in terms of the inherent resonant qualities of each type which is fundamental to its efficacy as a suitable turntable plinth. I also think that having double layers of slate is better than just a single layer, and I prefer highly polished slate to the dull unfinished stuff, which for me can look rather drab. I'm undecided yet as to which type of plinth to have made for my Techy, but it'll either be a double layer Slatedeck job or the solid and inert real wood type that Dave Cawley uses.



I've never heard a slatedeck garrard, I think my motor unit was about as good as you can get, I should have tried it without the bastin psu.

You have plans to replinth your SL1210 ?

jonners
14-04-2009, 20:56
Does anyone know anything about the Vantage Audio products? They appear to have a platter upgrade and a bearing mod for the SL1200/1210, as well as a power supply: http://www.vantageaudio.com/info/sp10acc.htm

Some pics here: http://www.vantageaudio.com/info/KL57.htm
They show the disassembly of the bearing but does this illustrate the mod I wonder?

Dave Cawley
14-04-2009, 21:58
Flooby dust :kiss:

:bag:

Dave

jonners
14-04-2009, 22:29
Flooby dust :kiss:

:bag:

Dave

Ah! http://www.floobydust.com/

Pete
23-04-2009, 17:24
Just made my new 2.5 ft long SME DIN tonearm cable :)

Parts from Takefiveaudio.com :
Cardas DIN plug
Eichmann Copper bullets (already had these) added metal sleeves
Neotech UPOCC 28g Silver wire
1/8" silver plated braided copper shield Belden 8660
1/4" Nylon multifilament techflex

A clear improvement over the stock SME VDH hybrid cable. Cleaner and more focused treble and more lower level detail, more defined and refined sound. For $160, a nice improvement.

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-phono-cable-picture658-phono-cable-001a.jpg

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-phono-cable-picture659-phono-cable-002a.jpg

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-phono-cable-picture661-phono-cable-004a.jpg

Mike
23-04-2009, 18:40
Nice job! :)

And it reminds me, I need to get my hands on some more glued heatshrink. :scratch:

Pete
09-07-2009, 03:45
Hey I'm famous!!!!


http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_022.pdf

Page 17 "I'm the "at a friend's house with an SME 309 fitted...." dude


However, the rabid enthusiasm for the 1200 out
in the world of internet forums has kept my interest
piqued. The Sound HiFi mods described here were
brought to my attention by a good friend on the MartinLogan
forum (an SME owner) who had just heard
the modded table at a friend’s house with an SME
309 arm fitted. “Dude, you need to get this mod in
for review. You won’t believe how great the SL-1200
sounds with this arm and a good cartridge.”

Pete
11-07-2009, 16:18
Nice that the modded 1200 is getting some recognition as a true audiophile table :)

chris@panteg
11-07-2009, 20:08
Yes its indeed and as i have the timestep/1210 but with a stock arm ' its going to be an agonising wait until i can afford a 309 or most likely i will go for one of the jelco's :)

MartinT
13-07-2009, 12:26
Chris, I can attest to the DL-160 working very well with the Jelco SA250ST arm. You know you want to do it... :)

chris@panteg
13-07-2009, 21:43
Martin ' i have no doubt in my mind that its what i need and probably all i will ever need ,its going to happen sooner rather than later old chap':)

Pete
08-07-2010, 02:13
Well gents its been a while and I have been a busy boy.
But the SME 309 has been supplanted :)

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture3279-dsc06856.JPG

http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture3322-pete-sme-v.jpg

Pete
08-07-2010, 02:14
PS my SME 309 bought about 1.5 years ago new from Dave C. is for sale

MartinT
08-07-2010, 07:48
Nice one Pete, but you've still got the original feet on. Get yourself a set of Isonoes pronto, you'll be amazed at the difference!

DSJR
08-07-2010, 08:58
I noticed that :lolsign:

Looks great. A tragedy that SME's are so expensive. A relic from when HiFi was desirable and priced accordingly... :(

chris@panteg
08-07-2010, 09:44
Fabulous arm ' so how would you describe the differences from the 309 ?

Yes get some isonoes they also look great ! .

Tarzan
08-07-2010, 12:32
Second the Isonoe Tweak.

Marco
08-07-2010, 12:38
Hi Andy,

You have a PM :)

Marco.

Pete
08-07-2010, 20:27
Nice one Pete, but you've still got the original feet on. Get yourself a set of Isonoes pronto, you'll be amazed at the difference!


Yup! those and the timestep bearing :)

Pete
08-07-2010, 20:33
Fabulous arm ' so how would you describe the differences from the 309 ?

Yes get some isonoes they also look great ! .

Obvious to me were more extended highs and a bit more natural sounding. Deeper more powerful bass, but also better defined.

Don't have any damping fluid at this point, so I will have to try that later.

I also need a headshell-cartridge spacer, because I cannot lower the arm enough to get the VTA I want, (almost but not quite).

DSJR
09-07-2010, 10:47
Instead of removing the bearing bridge as discussed previously, would slackening off the fixing bolts a tad do the same, or even fitting small thin nylon washers between the parts help I wonder?