View Full Version : Copper Binding posts from China are brass
I ordered 4 binding posts from 2 different ebay sellers in China.
They claim to be gold plated hard copper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110786165803?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1914wt_1110
This is what I received look where I used a Dremal to remove the gold plate at the solder point of the post.
My opinion a brass alloy containing mostly zinc.
The first picture shows a couple pieces or real copper to give you an idea of what color should be under the gold.
I will say,what a shame because the build quality is really pretty good other than the materials are wrong.
YES MARCO, SO FAR 1 OF 2.
Marco is up 1.
Marco didn't think they would be copper,so far he is right.
pete_mac
06-03-2012, 00:50
What a shame.
Are these unbranded binding posts or the CMC branded stuff? I've always wondered whether the CMC binding posts are indeed copper or simply brass as per your binding posts.
What a shame.
Are these unbranded binding posts or the CMC branded stuff? I've always wondered whether the CMC binding posts are indeed copper or simply brass as per your binding posts.
These are not CMC but I have a different set coming any day now.
They are not CMC either.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150628174286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_3776wt_1110
But maybe someone who has ordered some CMC posts could weigh in after a little needle file or Dremal work on the solder leg.
pete_mac
06-03-2012, 01:14
Looking forward to seeing how the other set compares.
I've used cheap brass binding posts on my amp and I'm now considering upgrading them (along with some internal wiring etc). I was always doubtful of the cheaper posts being solid copper, but the CMC stuff is advertised this way and has a better reputation. I might dig around and see what I can find out.
Otherwise, it's Eichmanns or Cardas for me.
Looking forward to seeing how the other set compares.
I've used cheap brass binding posts on my amp and I'm now considering upgrading them (along with some internal wiring etc). I was always doubtful of the cheaper posts being solid copper, but the CMC stuff is advertised this way and has a better reputation. I might dig around and see what I can find out.
Otherwise, it's Eichmanns or Cardas for me.
I went with Cardas after buying the Chinese stuff as it takes forever to get it and I thought to my self these are my last pair of speakers so splurge on the good stuff.
If you do order some CMC show us whats under the plate please (Ye Ol Scratch & C)
pete_mac
06-03-2012, 01:54
I went with Cardas after buying the Chinese stuff as it takes forever to get it and I thought to my self these are my last pair of speakers so splurge on the good stuff.
If you do order some CMC show us whats under the plate please (Ye Ol Scratch & C)
Indeed... I agree with you on that note!
My speakers have Eichmann Cablepods on them (copper) and they seem to do the job very nicely. The Cardas would look better on my amp though - the Eichmanns are a bit modern-looking for a restored Sansui!
Seller refunded and will most likely scream at his suppler for the wrong description.
Can you chaps ACTUALLY hear any difference?
Oh sorry, of course you can......... I'll get me coat.
bogle111
06-03-2012, 09:30
I thought that the signal, impulse whatever, travelled down the outside of the cable and that Nickel or Silver especially was a better conductor than Gold.
Gold just meant they didn't tarnish as quickly. Less maintenance.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
sq225917
06-03-2012, 10:32
Anyone expecting almost anything from China to be what it says on the tin will be sorely disappointed.
Take the lovely new stuff coming in from Psvanne as an example. Tinfoil and Teflon capacitors at top end Teflon prices? Well bollocks. They are nothing more than Mylar film caps with copper leads (and the leads are Teflon extruded) A genuine mistake says the Canadian importer Grant Fidelity, for whom the brand was set-up. (yeh a genuine mistake for anyone who spent $200 on a cap expecting it to sound like a Venhaus V-cap).
Now ask yourself this, knowing that lie what do you think the chances are that their new $1000 WE 300b clone, apparently not only made on the same machines but also using the same materials sources as the last genuine run of WE valves, will be anything but a similarly engineered visual clone, lacking in the stuff you cannot see.
I'd put real good money on the fact that most if not all of the suppliers to WE are no longer in business, never mind not selling the same metal, glass, wire, gasses and powders to Chinese tube manufactures.
You get what you pay for, if you want silver or copper speakers sockets buy Cardas or WBT. If you want silver or copper RCA's buy Eichmann or WBT.
I've save you the trouble of cutting a CMC open, they are nicely made, heavily plated, but still brass. (silver-passivated nickel-copper over brass). They did do copper rca's a few years back i bought some from Nick at HF-collective but they've been brass for years now.
Anyone expecting almost anything from China to be what it says on the tin will be sorely disappointed.
Take the lovely new stuff coming in from Psvanne as an example. Tinfoil and Teflon capacitors at top end Teflon prices? Well bollocks. They are nothing more than Mylar film caps with copper leads (and the leads are Teflon extruded) A genuine mistake says the Canadian importer Grant Fidelity, for whom the brand was set-up. (yeh a genuine mistake for anyone who spent $200 on a cap expecting it to sound like a Venhaus V-cap).
Now ask yourself this, knowing that lie what do you think the chances are that their new $1000 WE 300b clone, apparently not only made on the same machines but also using the same materials sources as the last genuine run of WE valves, will be anything but a similarly engineered visual clone, lacking in the stuff you cannot see.
I'd put real good money on the fact that most if not all of the suppliers to WE are no longer in business, never mind not selling the same metal, glass, wire, gasses and powders to Chinese tube manufactures.
You get what you pay for, if you want silver or copper speakers sockets buy Cardas or WBT. If you want silver or copper RCA's buy Eichmann or WBT.
I've save you the trouble of cutting a CMC open, they are nicely made, heavily plated, but still brass. (silver-passivated nickel-copper over brass). They did do copper rca's a few years back i bought some from Nick at HF-collective but they've been brass for years now.
100% agree and well posted young man.
Its much the same with this stuff, (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-P-037-Rhodium-plated-US-Power-Plug-C-037-IEC-/320844314295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab3cfb6b7#ht_4954wt_1396)
It is beyond me why people buy it expecting it to suddenly transform their system.:)
A set of 4 speaker binding posts for say £15, after the seller has paid his e-bay listing, final value and paypal fees how much has he made, zilch! So is the product a quality item, doubt it!
prestonchipfryer
06-03-2012, 11:59
I bought some 'gold plated' phono plugs from China/Hong Kong with the idea of making up my own interconnects. I am not joking, they were absolute garbage, load of f'ing rubbish. Put one anywhere near a soldering iron and they just fell apart. 'Gold plated' they were not!
John
prestonchipfryer
06-03-2012, 12:01
Can you chaps ACTUALLY hear any difference?
Oh sorry, of course you can......... I'll get me coat.
WBT bananas are excellent connectors. I definitely heard something when they were installed - it was the wife saying: 'How much, you must be mad'. Can't argue with that. :D
The simple message here is that if you want products of genuine quality, then get yer hand in yer pocket and stop being a tight-fisted bastard! ;)
Penny-pinching like this is so often a false economy.
Marco.
The simple message here is that if you want products of genuine quality, then get yer hand in yer pocket and stop being a tight-fisted bastard! ;)
Penny-pinching like this is so often a false economy.
Marco.
In the end I used Cardas but shouldn't we investigate claims from other manufactures?
And call them on it when there false?
I have to say Marco you where right.
Anyone expecting almost anything from China to be what it says on the tin will be sorely disappointed.
Take the lovely new stuff coming in from Psvanne as an example. Tinfoil and Teflon capacitors at top end Teflon prices? Well bollocks. They are nothing more than Mylar film caps with copper leads (and the leads are Teflon extruded) A genuine mistake says the Canadian importer Grant Fidelity, for whom the brand was set-up. (yeh a genuine mistake for anyone who spent $200 on a cap expecting it to sound like a Venhaus V-cap).
Now ask yourself this, knowing that lie what do you think the chances are that their new $1000 WE 300b clone, apparently not only made on the same machines but also using the same materials sources as the last genuine run of WE valves, will be anything but a similarly engineered visual clone, lacking in the stuff you cannot see.
I'd put real good money on the fact that most if not all of the suppliers to WE are no longer in business, never mind not selling the same metal, glass, wire, gasses and powders to Chinese tube manufactures.
You get what you pay for, if you want silver or copper speakers sockets buy Cardas or WBT. If you want silver or copper RCA's buy Eichmann or WBT.
I've save you the trouble of cutting a CMC open, they are nicely made, heavily plated, but still brass. (silver-passivated nickel-copper over brass). They did do copper rca's a few years back i bought some from Nick at HF-collective but they've been brass for years now.
A good example of a well made Chinese tube is the TAD EL84STR a copy of the 1950 RCA black plates I grew up with and they sound fantastic.
TAD doesn't claim they sound the same and honestly I can't answer that with out a side by side but they do sound pretty darn good.
I just wish the Chinese would be more honest with there parts claims.
sq225917
06-03-2012, 13:07
Buyer beware... I never buy those type of parts from Ebay, capacitors, high tolerance resistors, none of them. Even Farnell get their shirt lifted occasionally, there's nothing we can do about it except promote the good sources.
In the end I used Cardas but shouldn't we investigate claims from other manufactures?
And call them on it when there false?
Oh yes, I'm all for exposing charlatans, and 'naming and shaming' - so go right ahead!
I have to say Marco you where right.
I guess it's just common sense. As they say, if sounds too good to be true, it probably is! ;)
Marco.
The Black Adder
06-03-2012, 20:34
I got my CMC posts from HFC... Definately copper!
I got my CMC posts from HFC... Definately copper!
copper plated?
Did you file a little notch and check?
I got my CMC posts from HFC... Definately copper!
copper plated?
Did you file a little notch and check?
The Black Adder
08-03-2012, 21:44
hi.. no they are copper and gold plated.
The Black Adder
08-03-2012, 21:46
copper plated?
Did you file a little notch and check?
No need, you can see it's copper just by looking at the thread, the front end where the banana socket is gold plated.
sq225917
08-03-2012, 21:49
The thread is done before the copper plate.
that is no garantee .bet there plated brass.
The Black Adder
08-03-2012, 21:59
that is no garantee .bet there plated brass.
Sorry to disappoint... They are COPPER!
sq225917
08-03-2012, 22:31
mmmmm
Sorry to disappoint... They are COPPER!
I'm happy if they are, I just think the only real way to know is to remove a little of the top material and see.
If not you really can't be sure. Com-on Joe givem a little scrape and shoot a picture.
Humor us...
pete_mac
08-03-2012, 23:31
Yeah, I really want to know 100% for certain.
I can either go down the Eichmann CablePod and PhonoPod path (two pairs of binding posts and one pair of phono/RCA sockets for the AUX in on my amp) ,or for the same money can get four pairs of the top-end CMC binding posts and enough phono/RCA sockets for all inputs/outputs on the amp.
Of course, pretty much any decent modern phono/RCA socket should be better than the original 30+ year old corroded nickel-plated sockets. Still, I'd prefer to do it once and do it right.
Decisions decisions!
sq225917
09-03-2012, 08:24
looking at Nicks site he appears to have the copper bodied one in again, CMC haven't made them for a good while so maybe they are back in production.
The Black Adder
09-03-2012, 17:33
looking at Nicks site he appears to have the copper bodied one in again, CMC haven't made them for a good while so maybe they are back in production.
From HFC:
"High End long length binding posts from CMC, pure copper conductor, thick gold plate, nylon insulation washers & clear polycarbonate insulation. Suitable for 4mm bananas (top access), spades and bare wire (side access). Solderable or screw connections. Chassis cutout 12mm dia. Overall length 64mm. Sold in pairs (red & black). "
From HFC:
"High End long length binding posts from CMC, pure copper conductor, thick gold plate, nylon insulation washers & clear polycarbonate insulation. Suitable for 4mm bananas (top access), spades and bare wire (side access). Solderable or screw connections. Chassis cutout 12mm dia. Overall length 64mm. Sold in pairs (red & black). "
Yah, The pair I bought said BEST QUALITY COPPER gold plated and they where brass.The Chinese think Brass of mostly zinc is copper or they are dishonest. Good Luck Joe, Scrape Scrape Scrape....:lol: Don't yah just luv me?
The Black Adder
10-03-2012, 07:51
lol... You need to get ya wallet out mate... Buy from a reputable dealer who buys in the 'real deal' and not the cheapo stuff.
No need to scrape... :)
I know what you'll be scraping in a minute, eh Joe?
Someone's big daft head.... :eyebrows:
Marco.
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 09:51
Can you chaps ACTUALLY hear any difference?
Oh sorry, of course you can......... I'll get me coat.
:)
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 09:56
I guess it's just common sense. As they say, if sounds too good to be true, it probably is! ;)Marco.
Indeed. Or, as they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch!
“The bitter taste of poor quality remains much longer
than the sweet taste of a low price.”
twelvebears
10-03-2012, 10:00
mmmmm
Oi! Mr Skeptic! :)
No they really are. Had some myself and had a problem with the fit and had to hacksaw a bit off.
Defo copper.
“The bitter taste of poor quality remains much longer
than the sweet taste of a low price.”
Where did you get that one from, Steve? I like it! :D
Marco.
Jac Hawk
10-03-2012, 14:27
Can you chaps ACTUALLY hear any difference?
Oh sorry, of course you can......... I'll get me coat.
Priceless:lol:
love the way you shoot from the hip Dave;)
Reminder, I'm using Cardas binding posts.There not exactly cheap.
I just wanted to see if the Chinese stuff was any good as the machine quality was not bad at all just the choice of material. And everything is made in china anyway,mabey in a year or two Cardas, Mundorf ,WBT and Audio Note will be made in china? Seems Western manufacturing is going the way of the dinosaur. The only thing we make in the U.S. it would seem is HP sauce and we can't even get the cap to fit right on the bottle half the time.
Once more Brass of mostly zinc no copper to be found all other parts made of gold plated steel and advertised to be gold plated copper!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150628174286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3776wt_1110
The Black Adder
11-03-2012, 09:17
Oh dear... Looks like you have been burned mate.
Send them back and buy from HFC, job done!
Were they easy to fit? It looks like there is no standardised size.
Oh dear... Looks like you have been burned mate.
Send them back and buy from HFC, job done!
I'm not using any of these,I used Cardas I simply bought a couple sets of binding posts to see if they where in fact what they claimed to be copper.
Just read his action add. so far out of 2 different Chinese sellers there has been no copper.
Were they easy to fit? It looks like there is no standardised size.
I'm not using any of these, I chose Cardas.
Reid Malenfant
11-03-2012, 19:44
You do realise that Brass is an alloy of Copper & Zinc don't you? You'll not find any copper colour simply because it's a combination of the two metals. If I remember right it's about 60% Copper & 40% Zinc depending on the material.
You do realise that Brass is an alloy of Copper & Zinc don't you? You'll not find any copper colour simply because it's a combination of the two metals. If I remember right it's about 60% Copper & 40% Zinc depending on the material.
Yes, I know, in fact there are 2 grades of brass, The higher grade used for bullet casings,belt buckles,screws,nuts ect.. is very yellow,some of the Chinese brass is less yellow and contains more zinc. Solid copper as advertised has a red Hue.
One of the reasons copper is more expensive is difficulty of machining it as it is soft and has to be cut at very low speed to avoid stretching and deformation,it is harder to harden it correctly so the process is costly.
Bronze is Copper and tin.
And nothing on a binding post should stick to a refrigerator magnet.:lol:
Welcome back Mark!
pete_mac
22-03-2012, 03:43
Okey dokey... after much research I've got four of the CMC solid copper binding posts coming my way. There are definitely two different lines of CMC stuff... the high-copper-content brass versions (which are most common) and the pure copper versions. There is a distinct pricing difference between the two - around double the price from what I've seen.
I've ordered the CMC 858-S-CU-R which are the solid copper and red copper plated versions. There's also a gold-plated version available.
Once they arrive I will remove some of the red copper plating and will confirm (or deny!) that they are indeed solid copper.
I can't wait to read the results.
pete_mac
22-03-2012, 23:17
I can't wait to read the results.
Watch this space... they should arrive within 2 weeks.
If they turn out to be brass, there will be hell to pay!
pete_mac
27-03-2012, 13:55
The CMC binding posts arrived today and are now installed on my Sansui, along with some internal rewiring.
Best of all, I attacked them with a file and can confirm that this particular model (CMC 858-S-CU-R) is pure copper - no brass to be found! Likewise, the 858-L-CU-R, 858-S-CU-G and 858-L-CU-G (S and L denoting short or long, R and G denoting red copper or gold plated) should also be solid copper. I will post some pictures over the coming days.
:worthless:That is great news Pete, nice to know something from China is the real deal.
pete_mac
28-03-2012, 12:02
Some pics of the CMC binding posts. Sorry for the crappy quality of the pic showing the filed-off end of the binding post. Note the 'SWISS CU' marking.
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/cmc1.jpg
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/cmc2.jpg
And a few pics of them installed on my Sansui. The internal wiring (thin-gauge wire going to a speaker selection switch) has now been by-passed with thicker wiring coming directly off the boards instead.
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/sansuicmc1.jpg
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/sansuicmc3.jpg
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/sansuicmc2.jpg
The speaker selection switch and wiring. The wiring is now wrapped tightly in electrical tape and tucked up out of the way and not all that noticeable. This modification is 100% reversible if need be.
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/sansuicmc4.jpg
sq225917
28-03-2012, 13:54
WTF there's nothing in the least bit Swiss about CMC, anyone who thinks they have anything made in Switzerland is smoking crack. Not at that price.
Lol... I'm not sure what the "SWISS" refers to either. Maybe Mr Wong, who made them, went on holiday there once? ;)
However, nice amp, Pete!
Marco.
Very nice job,and glad to see that they are in deed copper.
pete_mac
29-03-2012, 02:12
WTF there's nothing in the least bit Swiss about CMC, anyone who thinks they have anything made in Switzerland is smoking crack. Not at that price.
Agreed 100% my friend... I'm not sure why the've labelled them this way. I took the pics mainly as a way of identifying the solid copper models (marked SWISS CU) vs the normal brass models which don't have this marking.
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