View Full Version : Technics 1210 MK2s - Why So Popular?
good vibes
02-03-2012, 20:05
Guys,
Just wondering why so many members have the Technics 1210 MK2 decks, seem to be a lot of members on here with them! Is it for convience, less fiddly when changing records and speed for example, or even that you can slightly change the pitch (to up the tempo slightly on a track) if you so desire?
I have three 1210 MK2s myself at the moment, having only just last week purchased another one...:doh: :mental: :D
Though I think I'll be letting one (standard version) go soon, as I had originally two standard 1210 MK2 models, and the latest one purchased has a few extra bits on it (start of the slippery slope on the upgrade path I fear).
Do you guys think £150 - £175 is a fair price for a 1210 MK2 in normal good condition (few marks on the lid, but nothing major), but without the rubber mat. I seem to have mislaid the matt in a house move a while back...:(
Anyway, would be nice to hear how folks ended up with the Technics decks, as opposed to some of the more well known HI-Fi models on the market...
Mark
Wakefield Turntables
02-03-2012, 20:11
Why is the 1210 so great??? Hmmmmmmm.... my answer is read all the threads and then you'll understand why!! As for a fair price for a 1210, yep £150-£175 is a great price for a 1210. They seem to be going for £175-£250 on ebay for something 1/2 decent.
You would be suprised what the Techy replaced ( or not believe me):).
I guess a lot of guys like it because of where you can take it in terms of sound, its quite easy to get hold of and a lot of people like it style
..... Yea but the money spent to get the 1210 into the top bracket puts it up against some serious turntables. Dais anyone? How about Salvation?
I wouldn't say the shrinking world of HiFi is awash with tweaked techies, but many people who frequent forums such as this just don't have mega bucks to spend outright on a top end turntable. The thing about the SL1200mk2 is that it was a stable and sound design, very well made and superbly finished and initially hugely underrated, even in stock form. I think it was K Kessler who first wrote about it in HFN back in the late 90's (I could be very wrong), fitting a Lyra cartridge into an SL1210 Gold and being genuinely surprised by how good the sound was.
As far as recent interest is concerned, I think Marco was probably the loudest exponent of this deck and where it could be taken - and so the journey continues :)
The Techie is just one of those decks that the uber-riche with status to uphold wouldn't even look at, but for those who know what can be done and who care........................ :D
One simple reason: it has a world class motor that few if any manufacturers could replicate now. Just take a look at the motor/PCB assembly and wonder at how the whole deck could be produced by Panasonic for its list price of £400 not so long ago.
It also lends itself to a high level of modification without completely breaking the bank.
Mine replaced a Roksan Xerxes with SME IV arm and AT OC9. It plays in another league, sound quality wise, from that deck.
RobbieGong
02-03-2012, 22:14
Had a fair few nice belt drives in the past when I was a lot younger. The Techie in comparison is built like the manufacturer hasn't tried to build it around plywood and included a rubber band if you know what I mean. I've always loved the look in either silver or black I think they look cool in any system I really do. It was when I purchased my first MK2 1210 and lifted it up to take ownership that I realised what a seriously solid, heavy and strong deck it is - built to last. The amazing motor that Martin has pointed out is another great bonus. This deck is so unlikely to break (If it does parts are a plenty compared to other decks but it probably wont break ;) ) It sounds good out of the box and really responds to tweeks from an audiophile perspective. It also doesn't have to cost a fortune, just go easy. Prices of good upgrades are going down and options are increasing all the time. At one point i think external psu's were around £400++ (excluding the base Timestep at £300ish which can be bettered for less according to popular consensus). Now a good psu can be had for £225approx - Vantage audio and there are others we've been notified of including the Mains R Us options. Things are getting better for the techie tweeker. Even if you keep the stock arm it is very good indeed I've found with KAB fluid damper in place - Oh and the on the fly vta is a real gem of a thing to have IMO, would hate to lose it hence I've kept stock arm. Add Mike New bearing, better feet (not costly) and a decent cart and you'll be smiling like a cheshire cat. I love my Techie MK5g, it's a keeper :)
I wouldn't say the shrinking world of HiFi is awash with tweaked techies, but many people who frequent forums such as this just don't have mega bucks to spend outright on a top end turntable. The thing about the SL1200mk2 is that it was a stable and sound design, very well made and superbly finished and initially hugely underrated, even in stock form. I think it was K Kessler who first wrote about it in HFN back in the late 90's (I could be very wrong), fitting a Lyra cartridge into an SL1210 Gold and being genuinely surprised by how good the sound was.
As far as recent interest is concerned, I think Marco was probably the loudest exponent of this deck and where it could be taken - and so the journey continues :)
The Techie is just one of those decks that the uber-riche with status to uphold wouldn't even look at, but for those who know what can be done and who care........................ :D
In my opinion KK doesn't get the credit he's due. He was shouting about how good vintage kit and valve amps could be 30 years ago when many of us were trapped in the Linn/naim dark ages.
WOStantonCS100
03-03-2012, 00:34
Anyway, would be nice to hear how folks ended up with the Technics decks, as opposed to some of the more well known HI-Fi models on the market...
From the beginning, there has always been a contingent.
My dad had a Garrard Lab 80. Before the idler wore down, it was a very good sounding TT. Is PRAT the right word? Because, it really sounded good. Nevertheless, on the very high recommendation of a NYC hi-fi shop, in late '78, he opted not to replace the idler wheel and came home with a Technics SL-1400MK2. That's pretty much the beginning and end of my story. I would never say the Techies are the only tables to have. I have listened to great tables in all iterations. Like I said, that Garrard could boogie like nobody's business. However, after having one in the house, no one could tell me a MK2 series turntable wasn't a great table, or couldn't do as well or better than the table of the week. I only got 1200's (initially) because the other MK2 models were discontinued. I was not dissappointed and found, in particular, I preferred a static suspension over the sub-chassis models.
I'm thankful that AoS stands as a prominent place to clear up misconceptions (one of the reasons I joined), along with Kevin at KAB and a about million basement DJ's (back when there were home owner, basement bars all over NYC). However, the Techies have always been upgradeable. Most notably, SME tonearms were regularly recommended for the armless Techies, including the 120MK2 and 150MK2. Technics even furnished an SME armboard. I have an original 4 hole SME armboard for a 150MK1 and the original thick wood armboard for my 150MK2. And, that said without mention of the SP series and EPA arms.
What's happening now is that many are jumping on the bandwagon, offering upgrades, and some of the resulting options are not stellar. Fortunately, many are. This forum will certainly weed out the bad apples. ;)
Buy one for £200 then spend another £2000 on "upgrades" getting it to sound decent :doh:
You may as well just buy one of the usual suspects in the first place.
Buy one for £200 then spend another £2000 on "upgrades" getting it to sound decent :doh:
I bought one for £200 have spent zero on upgrades (well okay £30 on a Sumiko headshell) and it sounds better than decent...I'm a little sceptical about what a lot of the mods on offer really do contribute, on a cost/improvement basis, that is. Some of them are very expensive.
I bought one for £200 have spent zero on upgrades (well okay £30 on a Sumiko headshell) and it sounds better than decent...I'm a little sceptical about what a lot of the mods on offer really do contribute, on a cost/improvement basis, that is. Some of them are very expensive.
That's hifi - in a nutshell I think Martin - the law of diminishing returns kicks in fairly early, and a bit like a racing car, you end up spending loads of money trying to eek out the extra last nth of performance - as long as the car you start with is good in the first place, you are a good way there in overall balance, and performance. You pays your money and takes your choice I guess (or maybe don't! ;) )
Buy one for £200 then spend another £2000 on "upgrades" getting it to sound decent :doh:
You may as well just buy one of the usual suspects in the first place.
You're completely missing the point, Andy....
First of all, NO other T/T in existence sounds like a highly modded Techy, so of you like what it does, then nothing else will do. In that respect, you need to listen to one at the level of either Martin's or mine, to *get* exactly where I'm coming from.
Secondly, "the usual suspects" (normally belt-drives) will NEVER EVER sound like a highly modded Techy (more often than not, they will sound rather worse)!! ;)
Marco.
You're completely missing the point, Andy....
First of all, NO other T/T in existence sounds like a highly modded Techy, so of you like what it does, then nothing else will do. You need to listen to one at the level of either Martin's or mine to *get* exactly where I'm coming from.
Secondly, "the usual suspects" (normally belt-drives) will NEVER EVER sound like a highly modded Techy (more often than not, they will sound rather worse)!! ;)
Marco.
But is it still a Techy? after all that modding what is actually left of the original:scratch:
The D/D motor unit (and plinth), the former which is *precisely* what makes it so special (and unique) in the first place, amongst a choice from "the usual suspects", driven by rubber bands and puny little AC motors! ;)
It will always be a Techy because of the superb D/D motor unit. The rest of the 'bits' which make up an SL-1200/1210, superb plinth aside, are there simply as a disposable 'supporting cast'.
Marco.
chris@panteg
06-03-2012, 12:57
Buy one for £200 then spend another £2000 on "upgrades" getting it to sound decent :doh:
You may as well just buy one of the usual suspects in the first place.
Hi Andy
You really don't need to spend anything like that amount , its already a decent deck provided you like the way it presents music , don't forget some have forked out mega bucks on some serious tonearms, but LP12's don't come with a free Ekos or an Orbe with an SME V .
No doubt it sounds half decent in stock form and it and can compete with the likes of the bottom end Rega models but when you end up spending many hundreds and sometimes thousands of pounds on it I can't see the point.
But I have an open mind and am not dismissing the concept entirely;)
but when you end up spending many hundreds and sometimes thousands of pounds on it I can't see the point.
Surely the point has been made, crystal clear, in my above posts - or did all I achieve was waste my time typing them? :rolleyes:
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
06-03-2012, 15:57
No doubt it sounds half decent in stock form and it and can compete with the likes of the bottom end Rega models but when you end up spending many hundreds and sometimes thousands of pounds on it I can't see the point.
But I have an open mind and am not dismissing the concept entirely;)
A 1200/1210, even in stock form, will piss all over a bottom end Rega. Believe me, I've had both.
John
Indeed. It pisses all over it, drops a big fat jobby on its nose, and then sets it on fire! :D
Marco.
RobbieGong
06-03-2012, 17:51
Indeed. It pisses all over it, drops a big fat jobby on its nose, and then sets it on fire! :D
Marco.
He He !!! - Defo !! In STOCK form = Sounds good, Rock steady speed, built like a brick whatsit :eek: so so easy to use, mega convenient on da fly vta and there's more but enough said I thinks :D
twelvebears
06-03-2012, 18:57
Buy one for £200 then spend another £2000 on "upgrades" getting it to sound decent :doh:
You may as well just buy one of the usual suspects in the first place.
I've own 'one of the usual suspects', in my case a Manticore Mantra and later a Pink Triangle PT Too.
After deciding to come back to vinyl I considered lots of alternatives but if I'm honest, I initially pick a 1210 for three reasons:
1. I knew it would be 100% reliable and fuss free and I couldn't be bothered anything fussy.
2. I had obtained a decent collection of 12" singles from a DJ friend who had decided to 'go digital', so I wanted something where changing speed was quick and didn't involve cocking about with changing a belt.
3. I shop I sometimes nose around happened to have a perfect as-new but opened Mk5 for a great price.
It was afterwards that I discovered the 1210 could do more.
I spent £300 on the original deck, £300 on an external PSU and £400 on a Jelco 750 arm, so £1000 for the deck excluding the cartridge, which you can spend as much or as little as you like, and would be extra on most decks.
I can say that without doubt, that for £1k - i.e. less than half the figure you mention, it outperforms my old PT and is the easiest, most reliable and fuss-free deck I could wish for.
Yes there other additions I could make, and I may do so as and when, but even as it is, it's giving a great level of performance.
What I particularly like is the way that you can just start with a stock 1210, add a decent cart and squidgy feet and get solid performance immediately, but with the knowledge that you can choose to keep stepping up the performance ladder if you want to without having to decide that you may eventually want to spend £2-3k immediately.
twelvebears
06-03-2012, 19:03
But is it still a Techy? after all that modding what is actually left of the original:scratch:
You could ask the same question of someone who bought an original Linn LP12 and has followed through on all the upgrades that have been offered since.
Yes the bits my all be Linn but a) it would have cost a shit-load more that an even a tweaked-to-the-nuts Techie and b) it still wouldn't sound as good and would be a PITA to use.
No doubt it sounds half decent in stock form ;)
Andy - Like I said in my post above mine is practically stock and it sounds better than decent = but Chris is correct, you have to like the way it presents music, whether you upgrade it or not, because it is different to what a belt drive does. I also have a Systemdek IIXe, in objective terms it is different but not better, If I could combine the strengths of the two = well that would be the perfect deck
Adendum - you do need to use a cartridge sympathetic to the stock arm (and I suspect to the deck).
Martin
I understand the points you make, I am not anti-Techy but I just don't get spending shed loads of money on it when you can get something like a used Orbe with decent arm for the price of all the mods.
I am not adverse to a bit of modding having rebuilt a Lenco into a new plinth but even with the Ittok/Troika from my LP12 on it I still preferred the sound of the Linn with the same combo.
Maybe if I get to hear a fully tricked out Techy I may change my mind:)
Martin
I understand the points you make, I am not anti-Techy but I just don't get spending shed loads of money on it when you can get something like a used Orbe with decent arm for the price of all the mods.
I am not adverse to a bit of modding having rebuilt a Lenco into a new plinth but even with the Ittok/Troika from my LP12 on it I still preferred the sound of the Linn with the same combo.
Maybe if I get to hear a fully tricked out Techy I may change my mind:)
I think it is a case of different presentations - some may prefer the tricked Technics, some the Orbe. If the cost is the same, it's just horses for courses. I like the timing of the Technics and it's bass slam - it suits most of the music I listen to, so I sacrifice a little air and transparency in the process compared to a quality suspended belt drive, a compromise I can live with until a lottery win, I suspect;)
Andy,
I am not anti-Techy but I just don't get spending shed loads of money on it when you can get something like a used Orbe with decent arm for the price of all the mods.
What bit of this (from what I wrote earlier) don't you get:
First of all, NO other T/T in existence sounds like a highly modded Techy, so if you like what it does, then nothing else will do. In that respect, you need to listen to one at the level of either Martin's or mine, to *get* exactly where I'm coming from.
Secondly, "the usual suspects" (normally belt-drives) will NEVER EVER sound like a highly modded Techy...
I don't get what it is that you're struggling to 'get'? :scratch:
Basically, a highly modded Techy sounds NOTHING like an Orbe! So if you prefer the former, why would you consider buying the latter?
Maybe if I get to hear a fully tricked out Techy I may change my mind:)
I think you need to do that, as with respect, you've heard nothing really so far from which to have 'made up your mind' properly in the first place ;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
07-03-2012, 00:29
Martin
I understand the points you make, I am not anti-Techy but I just don't get spending shed loads of money on it when you can get something like a used Orbe with decent arm for the price of all the mods.
I am not adverse to a bit of modding having rebuilt a Lenco into a new plinth but even with the Ittok/Troika from my LP12 on it I still preferred the sound of the Linn with the same combo.
Maybe if I get to hear a fully tricked out Techy I may change my mind:)
Andy , I used to own a pretty high spec LP12 and also a Voyd .5 , I didn't buy and mod the Techy because I thought it was or could be better ! Its just a deck I fancied trying for nearly 30 years , I didn't have a record deck when i bought it .
I've ended up getting the Vantage Audio mods which also happen to be arguably the most affordable and perhaps cost effective ? But in actual fact the differences they make are fairly subtle individually but collectively a substantial improvement , they don't alter the overall balance and character of the deck though ! Just refine and remove some rough edges so to speak .
The amount i spent on mine would not buy me a 2nd hand Orbe ! If someone were to give me one of those I wouldn't be upset , lovely decks .
I think the icing on the cake with my deck is the AT33EV , it is indeed a fine match for the 309 and the whole combination works ! But it sounds nothing like an LP12 or a Voyd , out of all the TT's I've owned + Roksan , I would still say the Voyd was the best ! I think the Techy with the mods i have is possibly the best value , the Linn had its strengths too.
A 1200/1210, even in stock form, will piss all over a bottom end Rega. Believe me, I've had both.
John
Apologies for playing devil's advocate here, but the stock answer to that closed statement would be, "You obviously didn't set the Rega up properly!"
The Rega is a lightweight structure, deliberately. Their wall bracket transforms the reproduction in the bass and as a result, opens up the midrange. Whar cartridge did you use to do the comparison? What was the phono stage and how far from the (unshielded) Rega was it? Was the motor one of the suspended ones, or did it have the very beneficial fixed-motor update kits on it, which makes a huge difference and also brings the speed errors into line I found?
You see, you chaps can make all the excuses for the Techie that you like, but maybe not bother with the deck that's out of favour, despite the fact that a bit of care can lift it much higher.
In MY experience, a stock Techie is NOT as good on music as a well set up Rega 3 and certainly not as "musical" as an old 3 with R200. But then, this site is all about souping up a Techie to new heights and I have no doubt that, with a little work, it can be taken there.
:ner:
You see, you chaps can make all the excuses for the Techie that you like
Inflammatory, Dave ;)
No-one here is 'making excuses' - the Technics has a solid case for being taken seriously.
No response to my post #28, Andy? I think we should tackle this now, properly, mate, so this sort of stuff doesn't crop up again in future...
So, come on, what exactly is it you don't get? :)
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
07-03-2012, 13:20
Apologies for playing devil's advocate here, but the stock answer to that closed statement would be, "You obviously didn't set the Rega up properly!"
The Rega is a lightweight structure, deliberately. Their wall bracket transforms the reproduction in the bass and as a result, opens up the midrange. Whar cartridge did you use to do the comparison? What was the phono stage and how far from the (unshielded) Rega was it? Was the motor one of the suspended ones, or did it have the very beneficial fixed-motor update kits on it, which makes a huge difference and also brings the speed errors into line I found?
You see, you chaps can make all the excuses for the Techie that you like, but maybe not bother with the deck that's out of favour, despite the fact that a bit of care can lift it much higher.
In MY experience, a stock Techie is NOT as good on music as a well set up Rega 3 and certainly not as "musical" as an old 3 with R200. But then, this site is all about souping up a Techie to new heights and I have no doubt that, with a little work, it can be taken there.
:ner:
You can play whatever you like. I stand my what I said: I had a Rega P7 before the Technics and the SL1200 pissed all over it. The Rega was set up by Mike Manning of Yeovil. I've never owned a Planar 3 but my late father did have one in the 1980s and this was set up by Mike Simmonds of Gulliford Hi-Fi. It's not an excuse it's a fact. IMHO
Regards
John
No response to my post #28, Andy? I think we should tackle this now, properly, mate, so this sort of stuff doesn't crop up again in future...
So, come on, what exactly is it you don't get? :)
Marco.
Back at work today so cannot really coment ;)
No worries, Andy - whenever you get a chance. If I can help in any way, just let me know :)
Marco.
If you're wondering why I don't participate in this site much, there's a big clue in this thread ;-)
Evenin' all.
Well, spit it out, Richard! I thought that you considered a modded Techy to be better than most belt-drive T/Ts, hence why it replaced your LP12, no?
Indeed, anytime I read your posts on pfm, you appear to be championing the sonic benefits of direct-drive T/Ts, therefore I'm not quite sure what it is you're inferring.
Anyway, nice to see you again. Your views on audio (and music) are most welcome here anytime :)
Marco.
And PLEASE don't forget that Tiefenbrun was considering a direct drive motor for the Sondek before he settled on belt drive (it was too expensive to develop). All the following anti-dd stuff was just smoke and mirrors.
tommy6206
08-03-2012, 12:44
You know the old saying if you cant beat it knock it..
chris@panteg
08-03-2012, 12:57
I can't remember Ivor knocking DD's , more TFR and HFR as i remember it , Linn seemed to be at loggerheads with Pink triangle and Roksan back then .
Who cares really what people think ? If you want to spend money on your techy then do it , I'm very pleased with the way mine is sounding right now .
Who cares really what people think ?
That's it exactly, Chris. I don't give a pantaloon what others think. One demonstration is usually enough to yield comprehension.
Lol@ "I don't give a pantaloon what others think."
Can I use that one in future? :eyebrows:
Marco.
And PLEASE don't forget that Tiefenbrun was considering a direct drive motor for the Sondek before he settled on belt drive (it was too expensive to develop). All the following anti-dd stuff was just smoke and mirrors.
+1
Lol@ "I don't give a pantaloon what others think."
Can I use that one in future? :eyebrows:
Be my guest ;)
Yep - I literally did "LOL" at "I don't give a pantaloon"!!! :lol:
So much so that forsooth - I may have dribbled on my brocade doublet! ;)
I may have dribbled on my brocade doublet!
:rfl:
So much so that forsooth - I may have dribbled on my brocade doublet! ;)
How ghastly, I presume that sire was wearing a protective liner under his hose?
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
08-03-2012, 16:42
I can't remember Ivor knocking DD's , more TFR and HFR as i remember it , Linn seemed to be at loggerheads with Pink triangle and Roksan back then .
Who cares really what people think ? If you want to spend money on your techy then do it , I'm very pleased with the way mine is sounding right now .
And I'm over the moon with how my Technics SL1200 Direct Drive turntable sounds. No rubber pussy belts here. ;)
Even though you'd love to be spanked with one, eh - wouldn't you? Bum cheeks as red-raw as a plum tomato... Eh?? You dirty, dirty boy! :whippin: :exactly:
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
08-03-2012, 18:52
Even though you'd love to be spanked with one, eh - wouldn't you? Bum cheeks as red-raw as a plum tomato... Eh?? You dirty, dirty boy! :whippin: :exactly:
Marco.
Oooooooh dahling . . . . . . :goodfriends:
chris@panteg
08-03-2012, 18:53
And I'm over the moon with how my Technics SL1200 Direct Drive turntable sounds. No rubber pussy belts here. ;)
Excellent , pleased for ya John ! The new platter is hitting the spot then.
prestonchipfryer
08-03-2012, 18:59
Thanks Chris. Absolutely hitting the spot. :smoking:
If i was going to buy a DD for £200ish without modding it i'd go with a PL71.
My friend has a 1210 and there are loads of things i like about it.
Mainly ease of use.
But it sounds very boomy but i'll put that down to his cheap cart (can't remember the name) as from what i have heard from others that isn't the norm.
Still happy with my rubber band jobbie atm though.
Boomy usually means feedback and this mid bass issue is the main thing that affects many direct drives of the 70's if they're not properly isolated and sited. The rule book on Techie fettling is writ large on this site and I bet the boom could be fixed with some care taken to feet, removing the lid when playing (if it isn't already) and a mat replacement.....
Think he is pretty happy with the sound but he has a pair of them for singles maily.
I know he prefers his td 160 but likes the ease of use for day to day use.
chris@panteg
08-03-2012, 20:43
If i was going to buy a DD for £200ish without modding it i'd go with a PL71.
My friend has a 1210 and there are loads of things i like about it.
Mainly ease of use.
But it sounds very boomy but i'll put that down to his cheap cart (can't remember the name) as from what i have heard from others that isn't the norm.
Still happy with my rubber band jobbie atm though.
Does he listen with the lid on ?
Oh I think the Voyd is a very adequate rubber band thingy , enjoy it :)
No the lid is nearly always off.
chris@panteg
08-03-2012, 21:28
No the lid is nearly always off.
Isonoes or the Vantage feet should help then .
Stratmangler
08-03-2012, 21:30
Isonoes or the Vantage feet should help then .
Quite agree - the stock feet are very detrimental to sound quality.
He's not into hi fi quite the same way as most of us but i will let him know.
Thanks.
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