Shure V15 carts

[Lee Henley]

Me again, back on the subject of cartridges just for a change. Ive been thinking about getting a Shure V15 cart to try out and whiulst doing a search there seems to be a few versions manufactured over the years.

Are there any versions to avoid? and is there one thats the most desirable?

Any help again much appreciated

Thanks

Lee

[YNWaN]

I believe the V15 mkV is considered the jewel in the Shure crown.

I don't think it will be that happy in the relatively high mass arm of the Technics though - back then Shure were designing for very low mass arms.

[ursus262]

What about the V15 mk III? I understand they were quite highly regarded.

[YNWaN]

Also intended for low mass arms

[tommy6206]

Well my shure mkIII sings very nicely in my technics

[DSJR]

The Type 1 sort of became the M55E I understand, the T2 is bloody amazing, mid treble suckout and all, but there's just "something" about it I crave from my vinyl listening. The T3 with stock stylus had significant upgrades to the magnetic circuit, giving a totally flat measured response, and obviously, it could track up the side of a house if you wanted it to. I love it again, but it's a bit "charmless" in its delivery, until Shure went to the HE, MR and now Jico SAS styli, the latter lifting all and sundry to new heights I underdstand :)

The odd one out for me is the V15 T4. The internal impedance was raised I believe and the susceptability to loading issues was all but designed out (something all other V15's suffer from). The sound wasn't as potentially hard-toned as the T3, but in the wrong system it don't half sound bland, flattened perspectives and un-interesting..

The V15 Type V sort of brought it all together and the rare Ultra 500 crowned it off. The later MR stylus was a delight and I love this one to pieces and would still be using it had wifey not clumped the cantilever accidentally. Again, the posters on the VE site rate the SAS stylus as the best yet for this cartridge.

Please be aware that this cartridge, from the T3 onwards, doesn't "flavour" or over-dramatise what's on the record and to some audiophiles, it may sound a bit boring at first - Ken Kessler commented once that the Ultra 500 "educated" you rather than "entertained" you, preferring the then lush tones of an expensive Koetsu instead (well, he had to in a way, since he was a key reviewer of the Ab Sounds portfolio back then and no-one wants to hear a £500 cartridge getting raved about when there's a £2K Koetsu to promote instead. Martin Colloms did the same thing, being privately torn between the far more truthful Techie EPC205 III at £80 or so compared to the then £1K approx Koetsu Red.. The EPC205 III was still raved about as a "steal" back then though and is a well deserved legend IMO.

There were other "versions" of the V15 over the years, both T4P mounting and the V15 IIILM as fitted and running well in my Dual 701. Not many came over here I believe, although we had considerable success with the beefier sounding VST-V, which sort-of lived on as the V15 V/XMR and currently in tip-downgraded form as the Me97XE I think, which itself is still a great buy for £75 or so IMO

In my view (so pease take this into account), these cartridges came along too soon, since in a modern turntable and into a sympathetic phono stage, they really do sound well to me. The biggest surprise was the T2 version, which works its magic just as the closely? related M75-ED does. Everyone who's tried an SAS replacement stylus (hand made to order and six weeks delivery and counting I think), really rates it :)

So there you have it - subjective I know, but I've been shocked recently how some of these oldies, including the Stanton 681EEE and ADC XLM III and Phase IV (older XLM's need the lightest arms then available and the Transcriptors Fluid arm was judged the best where I came from), actually sound these days, sweet toned rather than spiky and "hashy" as some can be if not meticulously set up...

Hope this helps :)

[Lee Henley]

The Type 1 sort of became the M55E I understand, the T2 is bloody amazing, mid treble suckout and all, but there's just "something" about it I crave from my vinyl listening. The T3 with stock stylus had significant upgrades to the magnetic circuit, giving a totally flat measured response, and obviously, it could track up the side of a house if you wanted it to. I love it again, but it's a bit "charmless" in its delivery, until Shure went to the HE, MR and now Jico SAS styli, the latter lifting all and sundry to new heights I underdstand :)

The odd one out for me is the V15 T4. The internal impedance was raised I believe and the susceptability to loading issues was all but designed out (something all other V15's suffer from). The sound wasn't as potentially hard-toned as the T3, but in the wrong system it don't half sound bland, flattened perspectives and un-interesting..

The V15 Type V sort of brought it all together and the rare Ultra 500 crowned it off. The later MR stylus was a delight and I love this one to pieces and would still be using it had wifey not clumped the cantilever accidentally. Again, the posters on the VE site rate the SAS stylus as the best yet for this cartridge.

Please be aware that this cartridge, from the T3 onwards, doesn't "flavour" or over-dramatise what's on the record and to some audiophiles, it may sound a bit boring at first - Ken Kessler commented once that the Ultra 500 "educated" you rather than "entertained" you, preferring the then lush tones of an expensive Koetsu instead (well, he had to in a way, since he was a key reviewer of the Ab Sounds portfolio back then and no-one wants to hear a £500 cartridge getting raved about when there's a £2K Koetsu to promote instead. Martin Colloms did the same thing, being privately torn between the far more truthful Techie EPC205 III at £80 or so compared to the then £1K approx Koetsu Red.. The EPC205 III was still raved about as a "steal" back then though and is a well deserved legend IMO.

There were other "versions" of the V15 over the years, both T4P mounting and the V15 IIILM as fitted and running well in my Dual 701. Not many came over here I believe, although we had considerable success with the beefier sounding VST-V, which sort-of lived on as the V15 V/XMR and currently in tip-downgraded form as the Me97XE I think, which itself is still a great buy for £75 or so IMO

In my view (so pease take this into account), these cartridges came along too soon, since in a modern turntable and into a sympathetic phono stage, they really do sound well to me. The biggest surprise was the T2 version, which works its magic just as the closely? related M75-ED does. Everyone who's tried an SAS replacement stylus (hand made to order and six weeks delivery and counting I think), really rates it :)

So there you have it - subjective I know, but I've been shocked recently how some of these oldies, including the Stanton 681EEE and ADC XLM III and Phase IV (older XLM's need the lightest arms then available and the Transcriptors Fluid arm was judged the best where I came from), actually sound these days, sweet toned rather than spiky and "hashy" as some can be if not meticulously set up...

Hope this helps :)

Many thanks for that mate, it was the version 3 I was looking at to be honest and may have a go at buying one in the very near future

Thanks again

Lee

[DSJR]

The nail Shure fitted wasn't as coal-like as cheaper offerings they sold, but it really wasn't that wonderful, by modern standards anyway. I suggest you look up as many old reviews as you can to get a handle on it. There are loads of the "Special Tracking" labelled pattern styli out there, but I have no idea at all if they're any good I'm afraid. A stock stylus will almost certainly be worn now, but Dom, or Jico, should be able to sort you out since EsCo are running with several months backlog.

The stock Techie headshell should be fine in this application I think, nothing to be gained I feel from something more "rigid" and with higher mass. A nice set of "Nerve Audio" headshell wires (still the cheapest Litz type I think and I bet they all come from the same supplier..) should finish things off, together with maybe some vantage Audio feet to keep the bass end as clean and "tuneful" as possible, not a V15 strong-point if not set up right..

[ursus262]

Would a V15 Mk 3 work in a standard Thorens tonearm?

[jaym481]

The V15s are very high compliance, so need a low mass arm (in general). I don't know what the Thorens arm is (nor the Technics). My V15 MkIII is in an SME series III. I also have the Jico SAS, but didn't get much time on it before the arm was dismounted. I'm hoping to have it running again soon.

[snuffbox]

I ordered a SAS stylus the other day,got an emailtoday saying it will be shipped on March 6.

[Lee Henley]

I do have a Shure M75 ED cart which I brought for very little money, I was contemplating buying a Jico SAS stylus for that, would I be better off buying this stylus or going for a V15?

[DSJR]

Difficult one, but if you're into "analogue," I'd probably suggest an SAS for the M75, as the sonic balance is brilliant for records if you don't like what "digital" does (or doesn't) do, depending on taste.

A V15 III SAS is probably the better of the two though ultimately, but watch the price of V15 cartridge bodies...

This is so bloody subjective, when the objective response is that the V15 III is potentially the better choice, but no everyone likes a ruler-flat response in the treble.. In the days when the V15 III was getting iffy reviews (early 80's 'Choice springs to mind), ALL of the favoured cartridges had a droopy treble :eyebrows: and a slightly lifted bass response. By the mid 80's, Shure had launched the HE stylus (I don't know if the VN35MR made its way over here) and this did mellow the slightly relentless quality of the stock model very nicely (I heard it for myself so not quoting Colloms on this)) and of course CD reproduction was with us, so a "tailored" frequency response off vinyl wasn't as acceptable unless it kicked ass like a Karma or Troika. The fogeys still lusted after a lush Koetsu though, but that was on a higher, status/money led plane.

[snuffbox]

As matter of interest if the troika I have were to go into the lightweight sme arm what would the likely result be?

[MartinT]

A nice set of "Nerve Audio" headshell wires (still the cheapest Litz type I think and I bet they all come from the same supplier..)

They really are very good headshell wires.

[MartinT]

I don't think it will be that happy in the relatively high mass arm of the Technics though

Really? I've always thought of the Technics arm as a relative lightweight.

[YNWaN]

Is it? I thought otherwiswe but could easily be wrong on that as I only have a passing interest in such matters (Technics and Sure).

[DSJR]

Mark, the early Techie arms such as mine has are medium to high mass, although stable enough for a V15 III to be used (one of my V15's was used on such a turntable). The later arm from mk2 onwards is rather lighter, hence the palava regarding the use of a Denon 103 in one. A Shure with the damping brush is entirely safe and it's use won't affect the sound in such an arm, although it won't be necessary in an "Improved" SME 3009 and similar featherweights.

I would NOT, under ANY sonic circumstances use a Trak, Asak, Karma or Troika in a techie arm. Im not saying it won't play, but I genuinely shudder to think what kind of noise would actually come out - total waste of time and money IMO! I am NOT dismissing these latter cartridges at all, ESPECIALLY having heard what EsCo can do with a Troika (thanks Mark and Andrew P), but simply to suggest that they really need a more solid and preferably (IMO) solidly coupled fixed head arm, since all of them transmit considerable energy into the arm structure. In fact, an Asak in a fixed head SME would almost certainly jump on powerful bass notes and as for treble missssssssssssssssssssstracking - :eek:

[kor952]

I do have a Shure M75 ED cart which I brought for very little money, I was contemplating buying a Jico SAS stylus for that, would I be better off buying this stylus or going for a V15?

I do use a M75 type D in my Dual 701 with a Tonar 6326-ES needle (light grey = N75 HE type II clone) and it sounds very well, much, really much better as the original radial needle.
For fun I tried my V15 III LM (original cart of my Dual 701) in my 12" Jelco SA 750 LB arm (without damping) and was supprised how good it sounded. A week ago I did post a thread with pictures. I have both an eliptical and a shibata needle for the V15 III LM, strangely the eliptical tracks better but the shibata sounds better. Headshell used is a Jelco HS-50 (9 gr.).

Ronald.

[DSJR]

The SAS should sound great AND track better too :)

[Lee Henley]

Just as a quick update Ive managed to get hold of a V15 III, with a bit of luck it should be here for the weekend, see what transpires......

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good luck with it! ;)

[snuffbox]

The Jico SAS stylus turned up today,no extra charges,just had to sign the postmans book that I received it:)

[The Black Adder]

I have the V15 III with the JICO SAS stylus... bloody good if you ask me. Much better than my previous cart, Ortofon Rondo red MC .