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View Full Version : Do our idols owe us a living?



muffinman
23-12-2008, 12:44
i've just been reading the post re: gilmour live in gdansk and it got me thinking about the floyd
doubtless the vinyl box set will cost a fortune. bearing in mind that gilmour won't sell a single copy to someone not already au fait with his work, it's a bit of a piss take really - don't you think?
i know i'm not alone in thinking that when people purchase these products,a very large number of his and rogers fans want it to be floyd.
i think i'm in a minority when i say that i prefer 'waters solo material over gilmours. it's far less accomplished but at least it tries to be different - 'stadium folk' i'd call it. I know he's done nothing of note for years, but screaming along to 'perfect sense' at earls court gave me a bigger thrill than any amount of perfect gilmour (solo) solos ever could .
the final cut, whilst far from classic, remains affecting today (in parts), whereas momentary lapse now sounds a bit 'eighties'.
Gilmour succesfully hijacked the floyd brand (good for him btw) and in the process diluted the very nature of it - yet he made an absolute fortune, because we couldn't turn our collective backs on them.
i'm rambling now but hopefully this will open a debate, be it on the relative merits of the individuals involved or on the general topic above.
i'm sure that not only does gilmour know that his fans would rather see him play with waters than solo, he actually owes it to them to do so

discuss:)

Mike
23-12-2008, 16:40
How much is the vinyl box set BTW?... I'm afraid I've not looked.

John
23-12-2008, 17:56
Generally between 70 to 100
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=444241 is the general price
A bit to high for me at the moment

Covenant
06-01-2009, 19:38
You are one hundred percent right muffinman. The reason Waters is worth listening to is because he has something to say, usually something he is unhappy about whereas Gilmour has a more or less idyllic existence and can just about manage to tell us about a walk with his wife down by the river (they had a picnic).

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 19:46
You are one hundred percent right muffinman. The reason Waters is worth listening to is because he has something to say, usually something he is unhappy about whereas Gilmour has a more or less idyllic existence and can just about manage to tell us about a walk with his wife down by the river (they had a picnic).

Quoted for truth! I've always wanted to say that :)

My view was always that 'Momentary Lapse' Floyd was like a tribute band. Floyd by numbers.

Roger's stuff post-Floyd hasn't exactly been stellar, in part because Gilmour isn't there to temper his excesses (like his tendency to get bombastic and let the concept and the message get in the way of a good tune). Like many bands they were at their best when they were together, even though they couldn't stand each other half the time :)

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 20:30
Well firstly Just to state my position. I came to the Floyd late and I like the classic period, DSM on wards (but not the 60's killing instruments period,though the singles are good examples of 60's pop/rock). I like the Gilmour Period as well.

I think Dark side of the Moon is a classic but none of the follow up albums are quite as good IMHO. I know a lot rate Wish you where here, but I prefer Animals.

One of the best gigs I have ever seen was Dave Gilmour, during the About face tour. What a line up Mick Relf, Katie Kissoon, Raf Ravenscroft, Chris Slade, I can't remember who the Keyboard player was but he was very good. wonderful mix of Floyd and his own stuff. Run Like Hell, Comfortably Numb highlights of the show. In fact for Comfortably Numb, Dave's place in the honour Roll is secure, best song and Guitar solo IMHO.

Dave's first solo album, poor IMHO. I listened to it once and never again and as to his other stuff, YAWN. But I don't rate Roger Waters solo stuff much either, except believe it or not, his opera Caira. I think Dave's one excellent album is About Face. The problem with many bands is it is the sum of the parts and not the individual bits. When the bits are alone its a bit of a flop.

The box set is interesting mainly because it represents the last work of Richard Wright and the sound quality is excellent. 5 lps for 60 or 100 is well either 15 or 20 an album. Is this good value, I don't know. Does it offer an excellent record of a number of gigs, I think so. Will it sell outside of Gilmour complete works collectors, perhaps? limited edition products with limited runs and appeal will always carry a premium price. you have a choice of many ways of watching/listening to this gig.
So pay your money and pick your poison.

To be honest with Richard wright having passed on, I don't see the point in a Gilmour/Waters reunion as it is not going to be the Floyd. I think bands should only get back together if they genuinely have something new to offer, if not its for the cash forget it. Those who saw the Floyd treasure your memories, for the rest of us well tough. It would not be the Floyd now, would it ? I had an oportunity to see Hawkwind last year. I did not go. Why ? Because without the rest of the band (original members ) Dave Brock alone is not Hawkwind IMHO. Roger/Dave and Mason is not the Floyd IMHO. The past is the past, let it rest. Now those three coming together and doing something else, that might be interesting.

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 21:01
Oooh... I can't help myself, sorry. I've tried to stay away from this thread because I could go on about Floyd for hours :)

Gilmour has been great live. I enjoyed seeing him at the RFH during Robert Wyatt's Meltdown season and he did a genuinely brilliant set of interesting and unusual arrangements. Hearing him play 'Terrapin' for the first time was lovely. He has made a bit of an industry of that show and that approach in recent years though.

Of all the Floyd's solo albums I have to say that Gilmour's first is my favourite :) He recorded it in something like 11 days and the freshness and enjoyment of playing comes through. 'About Face' is horrendously contrived and over-produced I think. Too disco...

If KAOS wasn't produced like an 80's pop record it would have more credibility. Live it was a great album - I wish I had seen it in person but I only got really into Floyd seriously off the back of it and missed the shows. There are some great bootlegs around though. Pros & Cons is too messy - and I don't like that blues-rock style of guitar so I just don't get it. Amused to Death is good in parts, but Waters' bombast gets the best of him, and the lyrics get a bit embarrassing at times :)

I've not heard any of Gilmour's stuff on record since Pulse. I have been so disappointed by release after release of stuff that failed to capture what was good about the Floyd that I've given up. My passion is for the pre-Dark Side material, though I agree that Animals is a fantastic album, and in many ways more meaty and pleasing from a Floyd-fan's perspective than Wish You Were Here. WYWH was a troublesome record. The band were under immense pressure to repeat Dark Side. By Animals they were pulling apart and that conflict and energy resulted in what I've always thought was their Punk album. All nihilism, anger, revolution, spleen and misplaced hope.

For me, Rick was the member of Floyd who I most respected. His reserve, his lightness of touch and ability to conjure up melodies that leapt out at you, and textures that were bedrock to the other band member's contribution is often overlooked. Echoes, Us & Them, Shine On all relied on Rick for what made them great songs. Us & Them is one of the single most affecting pieces of music ever. He'd been carrying round the piano part for nearly 3 years by the time it made Dark Side...

I'll nail my colours to the mast and say that 'More' is the Floyd's finest album, followed by 'Meddle'. 1969 was their best year and 'Obscured By Clouds' their most underrated :)

We'll have to agree to disagree, Neil :lol: there's nothing like Floyd to polarise opinion.

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 21:05
To be honest with Richard wright having passed on, I don't see the point in a Gilmour/Waters reunion as it is not going to be the Floyd. I think bands should only get back together if they genuinely have something new to offer, if not its for the cash forget it. Those who saw the Floyd treasure your memories, for the rest of us well tough. It would not be the Floyd now, would it ? I had an oportunity to see Hawkwind last year. I did not go. Why ? Because without the rest of the band (original members ) Dave Brock alone is not Hawkwind IMHO. Roger/Dave and Mason is not the Floyd IMHO. The past is the past, let it rest.

Absolutely. Rick was integral to the Floyd. Final Cut just doesn't sound right because he's missing. It would have been an amazing album with him contributing, as it is it's just a good one.

I'd go and see Floyd with Rog / Nick / Dave attending, particularly if they didn't drag along an army of backing musicians such that you can't tell if they're playing or one of their hired help, but it wouldn't be the same. They'd make a lot of money though!

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 21:10
We can agree on this Nick, one of the most amazing/moving songs ever written.

I quite like Atom Heart Mother, go figure.

regards D S D L---- Neil :)

I didn't say I would not go to a Floyd reunion show, but unless the reasons were right it would just be for the cash. This would cheapen it somewhat. I can't see Roger forgiving the guys and vice a versa, the Live 8 gig at the end was so painful to watch. How friends and colleagues can fall out. Never let the sun set on your anger. Always try and make it up.

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 21:14
AHM is a great album, even better when performed live :)

Summer '68 - another great Rick Wright track. Just imagine how Floyd would have sounded if Roger was a little more of a shrinking violet, and Rick had gone to assertiveness classes :)

Spectral Morn
06-01-2009, 21:17
I agree Atom Heart mother live with a Brass band would be amazing. Did it ever happen, I suppose it must have ?

Regards D S D L---- Neil :)

Beechwoods
06-01-2009, 21:25
Oh yes, lots of times - with local orchestras and choirs often, though the same conductor. The musicians would sight-read and sometimes the results were better than others :) It was also played as a 4 piece as well, and works in that format - the Floyd could improvise more without the orchestra and other musicians playing along.

muffinman
06-01-2009, 22:55
Waters is worth listening to is because he has something to say, usually something he is unhappy about whereas Gilmour has a more or less idyllic existence and can just about manage to tell us about a walk with his wife down by the river (they had a picnic).

I was excited about on an island but when i heard that tinkling picnic song, i actually felt angry. probably not the mood he was hoping to portray.
Beechy is right about waters being embarrasing though. i saw him in '06&'07 and both times had to put up with a song called 'leaving beruit'. utter dogshit.
his heart's in the right place but his head is often up his arse:)
on the comeback front though, if they ('pink floyd')announced a world tour tomorrow, it'd be sold out tomorrow. and the same goes for zep.