Tonearms that will not fit or are not synergistically compatible with a Technics 1200

[Spectral Morn]

Hi guys I thought it might be worthwhile starting a thread re tonearms that will not physically fit on a Technics 1200/1210 turntable, so if you have tried an arm and it would not fit then name it. This information will help others compile a short list that will save them time and money.

If you can state why the arm did not fit as well then this information will also be of value.



I will start....

Tonearm - The Graham Phantom mk1 or mk 2

Reason why - The Graham is a massive arm with a built in vta adjuster tower and the chunky base for this assembly raises the height of the arm too high to suit a stock platter or a Mike New platter; even with addition mat such as from the Funk firm or Oyaide. The arm itself can be fitted into the tonearm mounting area and geometry looks to be fine, though a single 5mm layer arm board is required either Graham mount or SME.

However even doing this still results in the arm sitting too high to allow any vta adjustment, even with the Phantom's vta adjuster set at 0. This was the case with a Mike New platter, bearing, rubber under mat and Oyaide mat. The extra height of this platter set up still left the Graham arm arm high at the back.

A thick spacer under the cart or a higher platter would allow the Graham to be used.

I spent the morning having ago at this but failed for the reasons named above. As Graham's previous tonearm is much smaller, I suspect it would fit fairly easily but as I don't have a suitable Graham mount armboard to hand to try the Graham 2.2 I have, I can't be 100% certain it will fit with no issues.


Regards D S D L

[MartinT]

The Dynavector DV507-II will fit with the proviso that additional platter height is added, by any combination of the following means:

1) Mike New base plate
2) taller platter
3) thicker mat
4) lower arm board

In this way, the DV will have some dynamic arm height range via the adjustment cam. The DV will not get low enough with the stock bearing, platter & mat. Then again, using one with a stock deck makes no sense.

[Spectral Morn]

adding a base plate would probably add enough height to use a Graham Phantom as well.


Regards D S D L

[jostber]

I received a reply from Immedia that the Spiral Groove Centroid tonearm will not work with the SL1200 because of the special armboard and the distance from armboard to record surface.

[RobbieGong]

A list of the arms that do fit or can fit would be great too, including any that have on the fly vta (although I doubt if there are that many)

[Marco]

adding a base plate would probably add enough height to use a Graham Phantom as well.


Or getting a bespoke ebony armboard made by Steve, to suit the 'footprint' of the Graham ;)

With Steve around now, virtually nothing arm-wise is impossible.

Marco.

[MartinT]

including any that have on the fly vta

Mine does that, but it's highly overrated in my opinion. I set it with a tiny spirit level on the headshell and forget it. I certainly don't readjust for every record, which I think is a huge waste of time, seeing as a warp can cause more rake angle error than a tiny adjustment change.

[RobbieGong]

Mine does that, but it's highly overrated in my opinion. I set it with a tiny spirit level on the headshell and forget it. I certainly don't readjust for every record, which I think is a huge waste of time, seeing as a warp can cause more rake angle error than a tiny adjustment change.

I hear ya Martin. I do use that little spirit level too (blimey is it small lol) I just find the on the fly quite good for that last little smooth adjust which on quite a few occasions has slipped into that sweetspot, but I digress slightly :)

[Spectral Morn]

Or getting a bespoke ebony armboard made by Steve, to suit the 'footprint' of the Graham ;)

With Steve around now, virtually nothing arm-wise is impossible.

Marco.

Hi Marco

I always suspected that the Graham was very borderline re fitting on a 1200/1210, but after some thought I opted yesterday to have ago.

I was able to adapt a sound hifi SME armboard to fit correctly (though I admit it was a tad less than ideal) and the issues were not down to that, just the fact the arm is so big and tall that it sits way too high above any platter to work. Using a MN base plate under the bearing would more than likely give enough extra height to the platter + a mat, to give a range of vta adjustments for a selection of cartridges.

However realistically, I feel the Graham is just the wrong arm for use on a Technics 1200, as what is required to even try it, is way ott and at the end of the day, even after putting in place all the things required to get it to work it may just not be a good synergistic match for the TT.

To be honest I am not going to pursue this, as installing a MN base plate is way too messy an option, unless Mike wants to machine the base plate to fit without having to take an angle grinder to the inside of ones 1200/1210 to remove bits that sit proud. I have always viewed the base plate as a not particularly elegant or well finished/compatible solution compared to his other products. Why should a 1200/1210 owner have to remove stubs etc from the inside of their turntable, why can't the base plate be made with machined recesses to allow it to fit neatly?

Equally getting a taller platter is not really an option either despite the fact I am sure MN might be willing to make such an item. The metal platter would not be suitable due to the massive increase in mass and the composite platter might not sound as good as a taller item.

The amount of cost and hassle to find out if a Graham Phantom works on a 1200/1210 for me anyway is just not worth it. However the smaller Graham 2.2 might be worth trying as it is less tall and massive and might fit without any major issues. I would need a Graham mount armboard to find out but again the cost of this item to find this out might not be justified either.

The wood armboards do look interesting and perhaps an SME one might be worth getting at some point in the future, as I am fairly happy with how my SME 5 works on my 1200.


Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Hi Neil,

I accept all of that, mate, and you're entitled to pursue doing what you wish, or not, as the case may be :)

The point I was making was that if the Phantom is "so big and tall that it sits way too high above any platter to work", then one of Steve's deeply recessed wooden armboards, in conjunction with a tall-ish platter, like the MN one, should work.

I believe that Steve can make armboards as deeply recessed as is necessary in order for a specific arm to work, in terms of obtaining the optimal VTA, (the only limiting factor being the length of fixing screws available for use) - and there is certainly plenty of scope available with the Techy, with regard to the depth of the hole armboards sit inside...

However, as you say, after all that, the sonic results may not warrant all the effort. But for around £100 or so, for one of Steve's armboards (and that's for an ebony one - birch ply, for example would be much cheaper), experimenting with one is not likely to break the bank :cool:

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,

I accept all of that, mate, and you're entitled to pursue doing what you wish, or not, as the case may be :)

The point I was making was that if the Phantom is "so big and tall that it sits way too high above any platter to work", then one of Steve's deeply recessed wooden armboards, in conjunction with a tall-ish platter, like the MN one, should work.

I believe that Steve can make armboards as deeply recessed as is necessary in order for a specific arm to work, in terms of obtaining the optimal VTA, (the only limiting factor being the length of fixing screws available for use) - and there is certainly plenty of scope available with the Techy, with regard to the depth of the hole armboards sit inside...

However, as you say, after all that, the sonic results may not warrant all the effort. But for around £100 or so, for one of Steve's armboards (and that's for an ebony one - birch ply, for example would be much cheaper), experimenting with one is not likely to break the bank :cool:

Marco.

Hi Marco

Fair points.

I am not sure it will work though as the other issue with the Phantom is its footprint which is large as well due to the VTA tower and the fact the bias weight is low slug and sits to the platter side; as a bit that sticks out from the bottom of the armrest.

I don't think the arm will sit into the arm mounting recess below where the bolts go, I just don't think there is enough space to accommodate the arm physicality and or allow correct mounting geometry. If an armboard could be made that sits flush with the rim, where the mounting/fixing holes are, then the removal of the 5mm that a conventional armboard has would/might allow it to work. Problem is Steve is on the mainland I am in NI so he has no access to my tt or arm to try something out.

I think at the minute this is a dead duck.


Regards D S D L

[MartinT]

Having seen Steve's Graham arm (Snoopdog), it is a big arm indeed, though no bigger than the DV. The DV just happens to work but the fit is tight and sufficient clearance for the VTA adjustment cam is only just possible. Speedy Steve also made my ebony arm board nigh on perfectly recessed to just accommodate everything while dropping the height as much as possible. Despite that, I think the base plate makes it all work.

Neil - I think you'll find that different models of Technics either have or don't have chassis protrusions that affect the base plate installation. I remember Mike being surprised by mine, but his installed fine. He did say that he was chamfering future base plates to avoid it, so it might be worth discussing it with him further. As to finish, well it is a hidden item so it's never really an issue, and it certain does its job of providing strength. I know just how fragile those bearing mounting towers are, they're very easily broken by over-tightening.

[Spectral Morn]

Having seen Steve's Graham arm (Snoopdog), it is a big arm indeed, though no bigger than the DV. The DV just happens to work but the fit is tight and sufficient clearance for the VTA adjustment cam is only just possible. Speedy Steve also made my ebony arm board nigh on perfectly recessed to just accommodate everything while dropping the height as much as possible. Despite that, I think the base plate makes it all work.

Neil - I think you'll find that different models of Technics either have or don't have chassis protrusions that affect the base plate installation. I remember Mike being surprised by mine, but his installed fine. He did say that he was chamfering future base plates to avoid it, so it might be worth discussing it with him further. As to finish, well it is a hidden item so it's never really an issue, and it certain does its job of providing strength. I know just how fragile those bearing mounting towers are, they're very easily broken by over-tightening.

Hi Martin

Seeing the Graham you get a feel for just how big it is, compared to the original Graham 2.2 the Phantom is about twice as big.

I think I am in a no win situation here, as frankly I don't think I could live with a gap round the edge under the platter (cosmetically that sucks big time) as you had with the bearing plate in position. My comment on the bearing plate was more to do with it not having recesses to suit all Technics 1200/1210 variants. At the price of the plate I really expected it to be off the shelf ready and suitable for use with with all Technics 1200/1210's regardless of age etc. I personally don't think it was acceptable for anyone (including you) to take a grinder to the inside of their TT.

There are times with the Technics 1200/1210's that I think its a bit like bashing a square peg into a round hole. There is only so much that can be made to work and there are other items that just are not meant to be on a 1200/1210 and I think such is the case with a Phantom arm.


Regards D S D L

[JazzBones]

Having seen Steve's Graham arm (Snoopdog), it is a big arm indeed, though no bigger than the DV. The DV just happens to work but the fit is tight and sufficient clearance for the VTA adjustment cam is only just possible. Speedy Steve also made my ebony arm board nigh on perfectly recessed to just accommodate everything while dropping the height as much as possible. Despite that, I think the base plate makes it all work.

Neil - I think you'll find that different models of Technics either have or don't have chassis protrusions that affect the base plate installation. I remember Mike being surprised by mine, but his installed fine. He did say that he was chamfering future base plates to avoid it, so it might be worth discussing it with him further. As to finish, well it is a hidden item so it's never really an issue, and it certain does its job of providing strength. I know just how fragile those bearing mounting towers are, they're very easily broken by over-tightening.

Martin and others, the MN base plate raises the platter circa 6mm, my base plate from Mike was chamfered to take into account the raised embossing on the Technics TT but it still knicked the edge very minutely, but it was no prob to grind out the whole embossing bit, a 2 minute job but please don't do it if you are hamfisted etc.

I guess we can add 12" arms as far as I am aware there are no worthwhile armboards to accommodate the 12 incher.

Niel, at the back of my mind I had contemplated getting a Graham Phantom T/arm, after seeing one on a Bardo DD so your cautionary tale has been taken on board, thanks.

Ron

[DSJR]

We all know the Ortofon models should work at least as well as the Jelco's and one day, I'd love to hear what all the fuss is about the Moerch? ams - don't know if the low-slung counterweights will foul or not.

Anyone tried an Ittok or Ekos on a techie recently? With a wooden arm-board, one of these may take on a new lease of life...

[Spectral Morn]

Martin and others, the MN base plate raises the platter circa 6mm, my base plate from Mike was chamfered to take into account the raised embossing on the Technics TT but it still knicked the edge very minutely, but it was no prob to grind out the whole embossing bit, a 2 minute job but please don't do it if you are hamfisted etc.

I guess we can add 12" arms as far as I am aware there are no worthwhile armboards to accommodate the 12 incher.

Niel, at the back of my mind I had contemplated getting a Graham Phantom T/arm, after seeing one on a Bardo DD so your cautionary tale has been taken on board, thanks.

Ron

Hi Ron

No worries re the info, its a shame the Phantom will not go on without a hell of a lot of work and expense and after all that it might not sound any good.

The bit I highlighted I really don't think a customer should have to do anything like that at all, with a bought product. You should be able to buy it and it fits all Technics 1200/1210 imho.


Regards D S D L

[JazzBones]

We all know the Ortofon models should work at least as well as the Jelco's and one day, I'd love to hear what all the fuss is about the Moerch? ams - don't know if the low-slung counterweights will foul or not.

Anyone tried an Ittok or Ekos on a techie recently? With a wooden arm-board, one of these may take on a new lease of life...

Dave, you ain't been reading my scribblings. I have the EBONY armboard with my AUDIO ORIGAMI modded Ekos. As you know the Linn arms of this vintage were always affixed to a wood type laminated armboard of Linn's manufacture and it was this that got me thinking and when our very own Marco got one both MartinT and I got one. Have not looked back. I might even get an Ebony for my LP12 but as it is now my No2 TT I'm not inclined to spend more big bucks on it :eyebrows: To answer your question, YES, the Linn arm works the best with the Ebony armboard on ye ol' twelve ten :smoking:

Cheers old mate
Ron :)

[Marco]

Marco always knows best, sweety! ;)

To be fair though, Steve put the idea in my head of using ebony. There's no doubt, however, that fitting an ebony armboard on a Techy is one of the most musically satisfying things one can do - talk about sonic synergy!! Oh yes... :D

Marco.