New Media PC

[Ammonite Audio]

Encouraged by what my cheapo Netbook can do with digital music, via JRiver Media Center, I have built a new and dedicated music server PC. It uses a Wesena E5 case, Asus integrated Atom-powered motherboard, a Crucial M4 SSD for operating system and program duties, a slot load DVD drive, and a pair of Samsung 750GB notebook drives for storing the music. The case is very smart:

http://i43.tinypic.com/ojgxv6.jpg

But it does have a few design issues, namely the slot for the DVD drive has very sharp edges and the eject button is placed where no commonly available drive can use it. Not the end of the world, but irritating. Aligning the DVD drive is quite tricky, and I do believe that the larger E6 case would have been better, since it uses a conventional full size optical drive. I might get a metal worker to 'convert' the front panel to take a tray-loading slimline optical drive.

I installed the Samsung drives in Scythe Himuro Mini silencer/coller cases and secured these in place using thick adhesive pads, normally used for car number plates. The Crucial SSD is also stuck down with one of these pads. Connection using SATA cables is pretty much foolproof.

Everything was going swimmingly until one of the Samsung drives failed; unfortunately the one that I had just spent hours ripping CDs to. Also, the Sony Optiarc DVD drive (with eject button in the right place for the wesena case) suffered disc mechanism failure. Ho Hum! These things happen, I suppose, but it's irritating. I did get the chance to hear what the new PC does in my system, feeding digits via USB and my HiFace Evo to the Lyngdorf amp. Even with the switching PSU, it does rather well, so I am happy that I'm on the right tracks. My Paul Hynes SR5 PSU will hopefully be man enough to cope with this low-power PC; and eventually I will get the SoTM audiophile USB PCI card that will isolate and reclock the USB output.

A shaky start, but the aim was to get a silent PC that would provide top quality digital audio while not looking out of place on the equipment rack. I think those aims have been more or less achieved.

[bobbasrah]

Oh dear, another computer based system to rattle the cages.... What is the world coming to.... after all a CDP is not just a limited data reading device....IS it?

Quite a while since this was being hinted at, and a nice tidy job Hugo.
Tough on the the internal drive going awol though.... Presumably you had not gotten round to a backup by that point. Bit of a sod all the same....
Looking forward to your impressions as to perceived audio difference with the change from SMPS.
A little puzzled by your intent in getting a PCI usb/reclocker as your DAC is asynchronous I believe. What is the reasoning behind that?

[Ammonite Audio]

Oh dear, another computer based system to rattle the cages.... What is the world coming to.... after all a CDP is not just a limited data reading device....IS it?

Quite a while since this was being hinted at, and a nice tidy job Hugo.
Tough on the the internal drive going awol though.... Presumably you had not gotten round to a backup by that point. Bit of a sod all the same....
Looking forward to your impressions as to perceived audio difference with the change from SMPS.
A little puzzled by your intent in getting a PCI usb/reclocker as your DAC is asynchronous I believe. What is the reasoning behind that?

No, I had not done a backup at that point! The faulty drive is on its way back to Scan computers and it will be interesting to hear what they have to say when they test it. This is actually the first HDD failure that I've ever had, so maybe I have simply been unlucky this time. I thought Samsung drives were well-regarded. The decision to have solely internal storage was made because I cannot fathom how to get a NAS to work (I have tried); and maybe I am now paying for my ignorance!

The USB DVD drive sitting on top of the computer is the backup for the moment! I do have a Samsung internal slot load drive as well, so that will be going in; however I'm a tad nervous about slot load drives after seeing what the failed mechanism of the Sony Optiarc drive did to one of my (fortunately not valued) CDs.

The SoTM PCI card seems to be a good idea because it can, in effect, isolate the noisy PC environment from the USB output. I shall be powering the card from a 5v Paul Hynes PR3 module that I have left over from a very old project, so everything should be as electrically calm and quiet as possible. I don't think that USB reclocking and asynchronus USB-SPDIF conversion are mutually undesirable. Maybe Mark from Item Audio will chip in if he's reading this to explain properly.

[bobbasrah]

This is actually the first HDD failure that I've ever had, so maybe I have simply been unlucky this time. I thought Samsung drives were well-regarded. The decision to have solely internal storage was made because I cannot fathom how to get a NAS to work (I have tried); and maybe I am now paying for my ignorance!

The SoTM PCI card seems to be a good idea because it can, in effect, isolate the noisy PC environment from the USB output. I shall be powering the card from a 5v Paul Hynes PR3 module that I have left over from a very old project, so everything should be as electrically calm and quiet as possible. I don't think that USB reclocking and asynchronus USB-SPDIF conversion are mutually undesirable. Maybe Mark from Item Audio will chip in if he's reading this to explain properly.

Never had a UNWARNED failure either Hugo. I have never had a problem with Samsung drives, or the WD for that matter. I have heard it said somewhere that the drive either fails within the first 24 hours or goes on for many years of solid service. Just luck I guess.:doh:
I see a lot of guys using NAS, but never saw a need for them here with 6 drives in the case, and the 4 data drives are hot swap so no case dismantling unless a system or backup drive dies.:cool:
If I need to stick my head inside the opened case to hear any hint of hint of noise so that is quiet enough for me.....:mental:

Never had an optical drive damage a disc either. Not taken by slot drives myself, probably just habit from using full sized units.:rolleyes:

With asychronous DACs, the timing is controlled by the DAC from the DAC, that is why I queried the logic for the PCI board. :scratch:
If there is galvanic isolation requirements because you can hear pollution, there is a thread somewhere recently where one of the lads bought a usb isolator from Denmark for around 30yoyo that is a plug-in solution....

PS - Though it was RichB's post - Found it http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15873

[Tim]

I thought Samsung drives were well-regarded. The decision to have solely internal storage was made because I cannot fathom how to get a NAS to work (I have tried); and maybe I am now paying for my ignorance!
Not by me, but then maybe we have been unlucky with Samsung drives, as they fail the most at work, so much so we don't buy them anymore? As for internal drives and not wanting a NAS, have you got another PC in the house? I have a desktop PC which I rip my music too then I sync this via my home network to the internal drive of my music server, so I always have a backup on two separate machines. It's a simple and so far foolproof solution.

I have just bought a Wesena ITX2, which compliments my Rega units nicely and I'm very pleased with it. Nice too see another file based system too, now the tweaking begins ;)

[Ali Tait]

That's a nice looking case Hugo, where'd you get it?

[Tim]

That's a nice looking case Hugo, where'd you get it?
http://www.wesena.co.uk/

You can get them through Amazon too Ali, which is where I got mine.

[Ali Tait]

Cool, thanks, I'll have a look.

[Ammonite Audio]

Wesena cases are cheaper at Scan Computers - www.scan.co.uk

[bobbasrah]

Wow, some expensive cases, but nice to see such a big selection available these days from a major distributor.

Quite a substantial price drop on the PC-C34 case I ended up importing, if Scan's advertised price is any guide...

[Ammonite Audio]

I have used Scan Computers for years and recommend them highly - their prices are good, but more importantly their service is excellent and drama-free.

[MartinT]

Nice looking case, Hugo. We like Samsung drives, especially the 830 SSD series which are storming fast. I use a 750GB F1 drive at home and it has been faultless.

How are those Windows updates going? Did you get them all to take in the end? There are well over 100 updates now if you start with a W7 SP1 installation. Let's hope for SP2 soon.

[Ammonite Audio]

Nice looking case, Hugo. We like Samsung drives, especially the 830 SSD series which are storming fast. I use a 750GB F1 drive at home and it has been faultless.

How are those Windows updates going? Did you get them all to take in the end? There are well over 100 updates now if you start with a W7 SP1 installation. Let's hope for SP2 soon.

For the moment I have just deleted all the downloaded Windows updates as you advised and turned off automatic updating to stop the endless cycle of downloading and failing to apply updates. I shall take the PC home to Norfolk this week and it can then do what it wants over a fast broadband connection, and hopefully it will be happy then. A similar thing happened after I updated the Netbook to Win7, but it eventually sorted itself out.

The Samsung HDD may not actually be faulty after all - I am wondering if the single SATA power bus from the Asus motherboard is the problem, since the other Samsung drive started making the same pathetic thin beepy noises. It is possible that the faulty Sony Optiarc optical drive might have caused SATA powerline problems - the Samsung replacement seems much better all round. I have asked Scan to cancel the HDD return for the moment while I investigate further. Strangeley, plugging in the Paul Hynes SR5 PSU seems to have made things better, compared with the laptop style switching PSU. The SR5 does seem to cope perfectly well with this low power PC, only getting warm to the touch.

[MartinT]

So it uses a laptop style switching charger? There must be a board inside the case deriving the necessary +12V, +5V & +3.3V rails, or does the motherboard do that? Where are the SATA power cables coming from?

[Ammonite Audio]

So it uses a laptop style switching charger? There must be a board inside the case deriving the necessary +12V, +5V & +3.3V rails, or does the motherboard do that? Where are the SATA power cables coming from?

Yes - a single 19v DC input, so that's why it's easy to use the SR5 PSU with it. The BIOS correctly shows those respective voltage rails, so the motherboard does everything from that single DC input. There is one Molex connector on the motherboard for SATA power, so I am powering 1 x SSD, 2 x 2.5" HDDs and opne optical drive from that. There are 4 SATA data connectors on the motherboard, so I'm presuming that it is designed to cope with this sort of power requirement.

UPDATE: The Samsung HDD is OK after all, which tends to support my theory that the faulty Sony Optiarc DVD drive may have been pulling too much power from the SATA power bus. Everything (apart from the Win7 update thing) seems to be OK now, with all SATA devices connected.

[realysm42]

I hope you don't mind me asking (what with all of the drive discussion on here) but if you were looking to make an ultra low noise media pc, wouldn't it be best to have the drive as an external unit, so it would only bere there creating "noise" on the circuit whilst actually ripping?

[Ammonite Audio]

I hope you don't mind me asking (what with all of the drive discussion on here) but if you were looking to make an ultra low noise media pc, wouldn't it be best to have the drive as an external unit, so it would only bere there creating "noise" on the circuit whilst actually ripping?

Are you referring to the optical drive, or the internal HDDs? If it's the optical drive, I think it's better as an internal SATA device, since an external drive must necessarily share the potentially busy USB bus. I have actually had good results with an external Samsung USB DVD drive, but it's all about convenience - if it's not convenient to use, then the chances are that I won't use it!

All of that aside, I planned to have the PC as a standalone device, with all storage on-board, not reliant on any external or network connection for anything other than looking up online music databases, applying Windows and antivirus updates etc. As it happens, with the two Samsung notebook drives encased within Scythe Himuro Mini HDD silencer/cooler enclosures, there is no noise to be heard at all, and very little vibration either. External drives need external (usually noisy switching) PSUs, so that was another reasson for avoiding them. In due course, I shall put SoTM SATA noise filters on each SATA device.

[realysm42]

Sorry I mean that all I would use it for is ripping, so when I'm not using the drive (ie 99% of the time) it wouldn't be connected to the pc. Hypothetically, is there an advantage to this?

[bobbasrah]

Sorry I mean that all I would use it for is ripping, so when I'm not using the drive (ie 99% of the time) it wouldn't be connected to the pc. Hypothetically, is there an advantage to this?

Glad your usb dac is working fully now Martin.:cool: Nice isn't it.....:D

:scratch:
If the drive is in use there is the possibility of noise getting through, whether SATA or USB, whether reading or writing. USB can add another layer of electrical noise by virtue of it's own psu, and devices sharing the usb hub.
If you are ripping to or reading from an external drive, that noise will remain present.;)
The only advantage to a usb drive is portability, saving HTPC space, or isolation of a backup.:cool:

[realysm42]

I'm more than pleased with it Bob and very excited about the soon to be available upgrades :)

I don't know if I've not explained myself properly here; I don't use cd drives for anything more than ripping so I'm asking what's the value in having something in a circuit that doesn't need to (permanently) be there that can only add noise?

Solution: Have a removable cd drive that I can use to expland my library and keep out of the way the rest of the time and potentially improve sound quality).

Tell me what you think? (Or don't, if this is detracting too much from the original thread).

[MartinT]

I think, Martin, the amount of noise contributed by a static DVD drive in a chassis full of motherboard and hard disk will sink into insignificance.

[bobbasrah]

I'm more than pleased with it Bob and very excited about the soon to be available upgrades :)

I don't know if I've not explained myself properly here; I don't use cd drives for anything more than ripping so I'm asking what's the value in having something in a circuit that doesn't need to (permanently) be there that can only add noise?

Solution: Have a removable cd drive that I can use to expland my library and keep out of the way the rest of the time and potentially improve sound quality).

Tell me what you think? (Or don't, if this is detracting too much from the original thread).

What soon to be available updates Martin? For the DAC ?:scratch:

Sorry if I'm getting this confused, but if the internal drive is not in use, I'm not sure how it contributes electrical noise in a dormant state. It would not make any sense, any more than a hard drive would....:scratch:
If you need to re-use the internal space that is a different issue, and by all means a USB optical drive would certainly release the space for a hard drive.

My own had space for 2 optical drives, one of which bays now houses the system and standby drives.:cool:

[realysm42]

I see, that's what I was trying to work out, so thanks for the answers.

@Bob, yeah, there's around 3 upgrades impending for the M-dac, one is the M-pax power supply (it's more than an uprated power supply though). Another is an upgrade to the volume control (this is partially linked to the M-pax upgrade) and there is a capicator upgrade in the works too. Details are sketchy right now, but I heard it from the horses mouth on pfm. If you want the full she-bang, they estimate it'll be aboue £500 or so.

[bobbasrah]

Ok, so Hugo, if I understood your last posts, the HDD issue is actually down to the optical drive after all, presumably drawing excessive power from the SATA controller ?

[Ammonite Audio]

Hi Bob

It certainly looks that way. Everything has been just fine since the optical drive was swapped.

I've been madly ripping all of the worthwhile contents of my CD collection - now around 75% of the way through Pop/Rock/Jazz. There's much more Classical to do next, but J River makes it as easy as it could be, rarely asking for any input before it rips the CD. Even ripping to WAV, it's amazing how far a 750GB drive goes!

[twelvebears]

I've had WD 'Green' HDs in my Drobos for years and never had a failure (so far).

The one HD that did die was an old Hitachi that I'd transplanted from a server I used to have.

As you say though, electronics sometimes seem to either go belly-up straightaway or carry on forever.

[Ali Tait]

Good to know Steve, I have the same drives in my Drobo.