View Full Version : Why are vinyl sales rising?
Thing Fish
19-02-2012, 08:56
Saw a piece on the BBC news this morning about Vinyl sales rising. Thought others might find it interesting...?
Catch today's Beeb news for the story.
This is a link off their page to a radio interview with Liz Kershaw and Will Page of the PRS.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9687000/9687919.stm
And some other interesting links...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16703917
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15366464
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13084752
northwest
19-02-2012, 09:24
Yes, I saw that. They might have known about sales but the guy from HMV didn't know much about the actual mechanism of listening to the stuff though the Q Magazine chap was a bit more informed.
I think I mentioned somewhere in another thread, my local Superfi are selling more turntables than ever according to the staff there. It (I might be totally wrong here) is, or so I have been led to believe, quite reasonable cost wise to release a short run of a vinyl album.
Whatever, it is definately experiencing a reprise and this cannot be a bad thing for the hobby.
Oh. And I have zero time for the PRS - Actually cost usall more in the long run. They have raised their fees to all of the Festival organisers that some of the smaller festivals are struggling.
Artifolk
19-02-2012, 09:24
I caught this too. A good thing IMO. :D
People are beginning to realise how good and natural vinyl can sound... and they may have been lied to in the 70s and 80s:popcorn:
The Q magazine summed it up pretty well for the masses, I thought.
The HMV guy didn't have a clue because they don't have a clue. How dare he talk about vinyl when hardly any branch sells it, putting their floor space instead into computer accessory shite?
A mix of nostalgia and the misplaced conception that it is hip ;)
Stratmangler
19-02-2012, 09:36
The so called vinyl revival, eh?
Whilst it's nice that new stuff is getting released on vinyl, most of the albums sold are reissues.
To be honest, with many of the artists around today I wouldn't thank you if you gave me their records, but that's a different story.
341,000 UK album sales is nothing - the population must be what 65,000,000 - that's 0.0053 albums sold on a per capita basis.
Yep, that's 5.3 thousandths of a record per person.
Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
Stratmangler
19-02-2012, 09:38
People are beginning to realise how good and natural vinyl can sound... and they may have been lied to in the 70s and 80s:popcorn:
My vinyl playback has never sounded better than it does now :)
I think the twist is the fact that CD was supposed to kill off vinyl. Now CD is slowly dying and vinyl is growing. Yes, vinyl will never have great market share again, but old technology outlives new?
Stratmangler
19-02-2012, 09:46
I think the twist is the fact that CD was supposed to kill off vinyl. Now CD is slowly dying and vinyl is growing. Yes, vinyl will never have great market share again, but old technology outlives new?
The irony is not lost on me :)
Now how long until the CD revival? :eyebrows:
Now how long until the CD revival? :eyebrows:
Could be! When file-based users realise that it's nice to own something physical, to see a disc and read the liner notes and browse their library.
Owning a proper record collection is both hip and cool. Always has been, always will be.
Owning a computer hard drive (even if it is in a little white plastic case with an Apple logo) will never be hip or cool.
I am a Guru, I know this stuff ;)
Apparently it's not the 30 something technology geeks who are buying it either, but younger people in their late teens and early twenties..
Perhaps Panasonic will regret having ceased production of the 1210 just yet.
Haselsh1
19-02-2012, 10:31
Apparently it's not the 30 something technology geeks who are buying it either, but younger people in their late teens and early twenties..
You know that amazes me. I honestly thought it would be the fifty somethings that were there before that would be re-buying into it having given them all away in 1983 like I did. Oh what a huge mistake. Logic DM101, Syrinx PU2 Gold with a Kiseki Blue. Oh I could cry.
We audio people from the 70's only accounted for less than 2% of the record buying public in any event and some of us have been fortunate to keep most if not all of our record collections.
snuffbox
19-02-2012, 10:42
My guitar teacher has a load of good jazz albums he's getting rid of,I keep phoning him to say hang on to this or that for me.
I've decided to spend money on his records instead of equipment for the time being because once he gets it down to the record shop and sells it,its gone.
Spent a few quid in Rays Jazz in Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road yesterday.
He's got one of those 1210 disco thingys for playing records on incidentally.
Wakefield Turntables
19-02-2012, 10:44
The so called vinyl revival, eh?
Whilst it's nice that new stuff is getting released on vinyl, most of the albums sold are reissues.
To be honest, with many of the artists around today I wouldn't thank you if you gave me their records, but that's a different story.
341,000 UK album sales is nothing - the population must be what 65,000,000 - that's 0.0053 albums sold on a per capita basis.
Yep, that's 5.3 thousandths of a record per person.
Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
Statistically there are always sub-populations within larger populations. The 341,000 is mainly built up of two populations kids and blokes like us. Perhaps the younger generations are buying albums for blokes like us for lets say special days in the year i.e. Fathers Day, Xmas etc:scratch: Anyway, who cares, vinyl is getting more popular, but for its long term health those sales need to increase. I'm certainly doing my bit, my wallet always bloody empty :lol:
sq225917
19-02-2012, 10:45
Was in a 2nd hand shop on Friday and a little kid came in and trawled the bins and walked out with some old Beatles albums, for a few quid each. We asked the guy running the shop and he said there's loads of them come in, regular as clockwork, buying for themselves.
He was no older than 12 and defo didn't look like his old man would be a middle class Hifi nerd. Vinyl is just hip again kids are rejecting technology.
hifi_dave
19-02-2012, 10:51
You know that amazes me. I honestly thought it would be the fifty somethings that were there before that would be re-buying into it having given them all away in 1983 like I did. Oh what a huge mistake. Logic DM101, Syrinx PU2 Gold with a Kiseki Blue. Oh I could cry.
Those old gits, like me, have never stopped using vinyl. Some diverted briefly, to home cinema and/or downloads but they usually have kept their TT and record collection. Fortunately.
Most youngsters couldn't give a monkey's and are content with their i-pods and top-of-the-range docking stations. They wouldn't even consider old fashioned vinyl but some - some are getting into it and it's them responsible for the slight rise in vinyl sales.
Long may it continue.
Audioman
19-02-2012, 12:18
Saw the article. Too much emphasis on the hip aspect though the guy at Rough Trade was the only one who was clued on the SQ aspect as one would expect. Also I am worried that many buy just for looks and are unaware that the replay equipment has to be high quality to take advantage of better SQ and avoid damage/crackly repro etc.
The revival is a tiny portion of sales and probably not make or break except for small labels. Actualy sales are lower than even a decade ago. A large portion of the vinyl increase is due to just Adele's '21' and Radiohead's 'King of Limbs'. However it is true that in the last couple of years more titles are on limited vinyl. Problem if a true jump in demand is created there is little spare pressing capacity left.
As far as buyer age is concerned most of the 'old' buyers are people like myself who did not buy into CD because we use our ears rather than buying into the hype. Probably why I am unlikely ever to buy an MP3 player unless SQ improves vastly. I didn't touch CD until vinyl availabilty was on the slide as my first encounter was a top rated 'audiophile' job playing in the Bristol branch of Lasky's. In short it sounded pretty awfull compared with my home vinyl based system. Never can understand the nostalga for early CD players apart from the superior build. Only way to justify the initial high prices realy.
I do have theory that if record companies invested in new presses and went on a vinyl is cool publicity drive sales could be substantialy increased. I do think many buyers would be purchasing for the artwork + free file download if included. I just can't see the mass market investing in proper turntables that need set up and maintenance skills. Most people are wed to convenience and instant satisfaction and don't have the patience and practical engineering knowledge to deal with a mechanical component. Still this could provide employment for some here in fixing peoples 'record players'.
bobbasrah
19-02-2012, 13:42
Or perhaps the interest is driven by the fact that so many seconhand turntables are being sold on finally vacating loft space, creating a temporary blip, fashionable or not.
I see a lot of youngsters here getting 70/80/90s amps to replace their modern all in one boxes presumably for the same reason.
WOStantonCS100
19-02-2012, 17:53
Used to be, I could go in my favorite used record shop and be one of 4 or 5 people my age (or older). There was no jockeying for position at the "new arrivals" bin. It was quiet enough to listen to the music they were playing. Nowadays, (just last week) there are all these... young people... in my friggin' way!!! Loads of em!! Shouldn't they be in school or in a dorm writing a thesis?!?? There are old people, in between people, little whippersnappers in the aisles! What is up with that!? :steam: Even at the thrift the other day, there was a late 20's mom looking through records telling the other 20's mom that these (LP's) "could be valuable". Say, what!? I used to go record shopping to get away from people. Record shopping is my sanctuary; so, leave me alone! ;) New world order is here. :lol:
Hi Chris,
My vinyl playback has never sounded better than it does now :)
Yesh, but only since you've had a Techy, which of course isn't really a modern turntable ;)
341,000 UK album sales is nothing - the population must be what 65,000,000 - that's 0.0053 albums sold on a per capita basis.
Yep, that's 5.3 thousandths of a record per person.
Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
In a way, but let's look at it a little differently...
How much of the UK population are genuine music lovers, i.e. own more than, say, 1500 CDs or records ('files' don't count, as I'm talking about people who have invested significant sums of money in music software)?
And out of those people, what percentage does 341,000 vinyl album sales equate to, or moreover, how many of those people are represented amongst the 341,000 vinyl sales? I suspect then that the stats would be (not much) but a little better? :)
Now let's extrapolate things further... I wonder what percentage of UK 'audiophiles' (such as those who post on forums like this or own a proper hi-fi system), who are also genuine music lovers, based on the same criteria above, are amongst the 341,000 vinyl album buyers?
It's the stats from the last two sample groups I'd be interested in knowing, and which I consider as being more relevant, not the habits of the unwashed general public...! ;)
If the stats from both of those sample groups show an upward trend, then the future of vinyl (in its undoubtedly niche market) is safe for a while yet.
Marco.
P.S I'll be talking to you soon about coming over again for a sesh, when you're free. I'd like to do some proper needle-drops now! :cool:
Rare Bird
19-02-2012, 20:43
As for the music i buy, i can't see a massive % of that getting re-issued! the prices for existing copies are just plain redicularse. This basically equates to me never using vinyl ever again. Not the end of the world Open Reel sound great.
Audioman
20-02-2012, 09:41
How much of the UK population are genuine music lovers, i.e. own more than, say, 1500 CDs or records ('files' don't count, as I'm talking about people who have invested significant sums of money in music software)?
And out of those people, what percentage does 341,000 vinyl album sales equate to, or moreover, how many of those people are represented amongst the 341,000 vinyl sales? I suspect then that the stats would be (not much) but a little better? :)
Now let's extrapolate things further... I wonder what percentage of UK 'audiophiles' (such as those who post on forums like this or own a proper hi-fi system), who are also genuine music lovers, based on the same criteria above, are amongst the 341,000 vinyl album buyers?
It's the stats from the last two sample groups I'd be interested in knowing, and which I consider as being more relevant, not the habits of the unwashed general public...! ;)
If the stats from both of those sample groups show an upward trend, then the future of vinyl (in its undoubtedly niche market) is safe for a while yet.
Marco.
To suggest that you need 1500 albums to qualify as an audiophile or music fan even is a bit elitist I think Marco. A few hundred might be a qualifying factor or maybe considerably less. 1500 LP's take up a lot of house room. I know as I'm sitting surrounded by crates of them filling half of a small room. Also there are music collectors with vast collections who are in no way audiophiles and use modest equipment to play their collection.
So I don't think a proper hi-fi system by our standards can be directly related to music collection on a physical format. I can't see a survey being commissioned that would accurately measure the purchase of vinyl by audiophiles against the rest. Further more the vinyl sales figures should be taken with a pinch of salt. They likely underestimate real sales as they are compiled from retail sales of new or mainstream UK releases probably from certain outlets.
I would guess that most independent outlets and sales of imported audiophile pressings are not included in the statistics. The later must account for a large percentage of vinyl purchased by hi-fi enthusiasts. To that I think it is legitimate to include the used market as an indicator of vinyl popularity. If the major record companies were more aware of used demand I think thy would be releasing more properly remastered (all analogue) reissues of in demand back catalogue. When they do so they often are only willing to release digital files to third parties such as MOV.
There is also the problem of so many reissues being screwed up in the mastering/production process. A couple horrors I have read of recently have included Eric Clapton unplugged 2lp and the Tom Waites catalogue. The later was converted to digital from analogue before cutting and due to lack of other quality checks ended up sounding completely wrong. Rhino have come good and recut from analogue by Chris Bellman. The former has apparently a noticable passage of the recording missing a fact Warner appear reluctant to acknowledge. It is often a case of sticking to the original issue that is best I am afraid.
As for the music i buy, i can't see a massive % of that getting re-issued! the prices for existing copies are just plain redicularse. This basically equates to me never using vinyl ever again. Not the end of the world Open Reel sound great.
So how do you substitute vinyl for reel to reel tape ? When commercial releases of R to R albums rarely appear they are often more expensive than the vinyl collectables. I do sympathise with anyone collecting original prog releases today as prices are often silly I think due to 'label' collectors and those who see them as an investment. This is the sort of material I would like to see officialy reissued properly. Might put paid to the coloured vinyl bootleggers.
Sure, Paul - I don't disagree with you.
The main point I was making was that the music buying habits of your average 'Joe' (and/or that of the total UK population) isn't an accurate benchmark from which to judge the relevance of the quoted total vinyl sales.
Music buying on vinyl is a very niche market. It would be like trying to accurately ascertain the wine buying habits of the UK public from the sales of St. Emilion Grand-Cru.
Therefore, it's what people who occupy that niche market buy, who are genuinely interested in music, that will determine the future survival (or not) of vinyl, not your average 'Joe', who once in a blue moon pops a Michael Bublé CD into his trolley at Tesco, along with his baked beans.
I would guess that most independent outlets and sales of imported audiophile pressings are not included in the statistics. The later must account for a large percentage of vinyl purchased by hi-fi enthusiasts. To that I think it is legitimate to include the used market as an indicator of vinyl popularity. If the major record companies were more aware of used demand I think thy would be releasing more properly remastered (all analogue) reissues of in demand back catalogue.
Spot on! :clap:
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
20-02-2012, 10:07
Oi you, me name's not Joe & it's borlotti beans, right?!
Ah yes, I'd forgotten that you shopped in Booths :o
Marco.
Rare Bird
20-02-2012, 10:22
So how do you substitute vinyl for reel to reel tape ? When commercial releases of R to R albums rarely appear they are often more expensive than the vinyl collectables. I do sympathise with anyone collecting original prog releases today as prices are often silly I think due to 'label' collectors and those who see them as an investment. This is the sort of material I would like to see officialy reissued properly. Might put paid to the coloured vinyl bootleggers.
I would never use a pre recorded open Reel tape if they gave them out free gratis :) I have plenty but just collectors items.
The Grand Wazoo
20-02-2012, 10:28
Yes that's right & Michael Bubbles and Girls Aloud are equally 'gifted' performers in their own fields!
Aye, yer cannae whack a bit of Michael Bubbles... I frequently bop around to him in the kitchen, when making the Spag Bol.
Marco.
Cd is getting squeezed out through downloads.
I only really buy vinyl pre 80's and rest on 2nd hand cds and rip and stick the cd in the loft.
I think vinyl may very well make a revival because it sounds great and is cool.
Only concern is will there be any decent hi fi shops left,or will it be just apple and tescos selling dodgy systems.
For me, it's all about the analogue sound that I like, and late 60's and 70's originals have a sound hard to replicate.
But it's not all about the sound for some people. Some work colleagues of mine aren't really that bothered about the sound but just prefer the packaging, history of the originals and the feeling that you own something.
Audioman
20-02-2012, 15:17
Cd is getting squeezed out through downloads.
I only really buy vinyl pre 80's and rest on 2nd hand cds and rip and stick the cd in the loft.
I think vinyl may very well make a revival because it sounds great and is cool.
Only concern is will there be any decent hi fi shops left,or will it be just apple and tescos selling dodgy systems.
CD sales are still huge in spite of downloads taking a large share of the market. Difference people buy on line rather than from brick and mortar stores. There is plenty worthwhile vinyl from the 80's onwards. Recordings were usualy analogue until the late 80's and I mostly find digital recordings sound better on vinyl because the actual recording is better than 16/44.
The vinyl revival is potentialy limited not only as the format is too fussy for the masses but due to pressing capacity. Many new plants would need to open if the amount of music on vinyl is to increase substantialy more. Unfortunately the record companies closed most pressing plants a decade ago to save money and sold the few remaining to independent operations. Also most of the US plants have crapola pressing qualiity with the exception of RTI and the newly opened Quality Records.
jazzpiano
20-02-2012, 17:01
Wise man Paul. Buy those jazz records while you can at a good price. About 30 years ago my nephew bought back a few dozen Monk and Bill Evans records for me from Japan when he was stationed there, and it was one of the best purchases I've ever made. They're 4X the price now and what with mortgage, kid in college, loss of carefreeness = sense of responsibility... It would just never happen today. He still asks me about it when I see him at Christmas and I think about it every time I play one. Pick carefully and go with mostly favorite artists but also a couple who have the "potential" to be favorites in the future - just my opinion.
Best,
Barry
Stratmangler
21-02-2012, 21:30
I'll be talking to you soon about coming over again for a sesh, when you're free. I'd like to do some proper needle-drops now! :cool:
Sounds good - it'll be interesting to hear how your deck performs, as you've made quite a few changes since I last heard it :)
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