Which T/T is best to buy for the purpose of longevity?

[Dingdong]

One of the problems I see with direct drive turntables is there longevity. There is a fair bit more electronics in a direct drive than most belt drives. In the case of the 1210 it has mostly proprietary circuits that if they die replacement will become increasingly difficult to find. There is a good chance they will be okay, but who knows.
If I wanted something to last 30 years I'd be looking for something simple and easy to repair, with easy availability of spare parts.
With my own SP-10 the electronics are repairable with modern equivalent components. Except for the bearing. If that gets worn out the deck is scrap at the moment. I shall be taking good care of the bearing and cleaning it and oiling it regularly.
You could always buy a spare deck or two for spares. Might save you a bit down the line.There are plenty of bearings available now for the 1210's. Will they still be around in 20-30 years. Who knows.

Something like the Garrard 401 seems to have plenty of support to keep all the bits going. I'm sure there will be a few others that have a small industry around them to keep them going for years.

[Canetoad]

I think my MN bearing will be fine in 30 years! :eyebrows:

I can't see much of an issue replacing a few solid state parts in the Techie circuit board being much of a problem. Everything else should be fine. :)

[Dingdong]

I think my MN bearing will be fine in 30 years! :eyebrows:

I can't see much of an issue replacing a few solid state parts in the Techie circuit board being much of a problem. Everything else should be fine. :)

And where are you going to find those solid state parts?

[Canetoad]

Where ever I can...

Where are belt drive owners going to get replacement motors from? Their motor control circuits, while simpler, contain electronic components too.

[Dingdong]

Where ever I can...

Where are belt drive owners going to get replacement motors from? Their motor control circuits, while simpler, contain electronic components too.

See if you can find replacements now for the three main chips without canibalising an old deck.

Most other decks contain components that you can most likely buy from places like RS.

[chris@panteg]

I think you can still buy replacement boards with coil ? This is the thing to do now if you can:)

[Dingdong]

I think you can still buy replacement boards with coil ? This is the thing to do now if you can:)

I'd recommend that while they are still affordable. They may be a good investment.
I believe that production of spares has stopped. May be wrong though.

[chris@panteg]

I'd recommend that while they are still affordable. They may be a good investment.
I believe that production of spares has stopped. May be wrong though.

I think spare parts should be available for 5 years by law ?

If it helps I did ask Richard about the IC's failing and it's very rare .

[Marco]

When/if my Techy dies (fatally), I'll simply sell the bits I can and transfer the arm and cartridge onto the mintiest Thorens TD-124 I can find, which for me, when correctly fettled, wipes the floor with an SP10.

One of the nicest looking ones I've seen so far is Tony L's on pfm:


http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1007/6775945803a5c92c7e21o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/6775945803a5c92c7e21o.jpg/)


Visually, that ticks all the boxes for me. Such elegant simplicity!


I'd also buy an SME M2-12R (the best pick-up arm SME make, bar none):


http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2756/m212r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/m212r.jpg/)


And use it on the 124 as my 12" option. Then, worry not forever and just listen to music... However, I think it'll be a long time before that happens! :cool:

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Marco

How old are the TD124's :whistle:

Looks lovely and yes i have heard one , a guy i met based in bicester , we listened to it with my old Snell J's and some nice hybrid valve/mosfet amps :)

[Dingdong]

Not sure if I like the looks of that plinth on the 124. Blackadders looks quite pretty.
If it was me, and I had the money, I'd be going for a 124 sooner rather than later. They ain't going to get any cheaper.

Considering the amount of money some of the 1210 upgrades cost a rather nice, fettled, 124 would be an excellent alternative.

I think of the 1210 as more of a Susan Boyle, and the 124 more as a Kylie. Both sing quite well, but which one would you want to wake up next to?

[chris@panteg]

Not sure if I like the looks of that plinth on the 124. Blackadders looks quite pretty.
If it was me, and I had the money, I'd be going for a 124 sooner rather than later. They ain't going to get any cheaper.

Considering the amount of money some of the 1210 upgrades cost a rather nice, fettled, 124 would be an excellent alternative.

I think of the 1210 as more of a Susan Boyle, and the 124 more as a Kylie. Both sing quite well, but which one would you want to wake up next to?

Lol Mark , now that's a bit harsh :eyebrows: To me the 1210 is more like maybe Geri Halliwell , still rather wake up to Kylie though ;)

[Dingdong]

You like how Geri Halliwell sings? There is no hope for you.:lol:

[chris@panteg]

You like how Geri Halliwell sings? There is no hope for you.:lol:

I didn't say i liked her singing lol and as for Susan Boyle :doh: Just awful .

[Marco]

Hi Chris,


How old are the TD124's :whistle:


I believe that it was introduced in 1957. What's that got to do with the price of frilly panties? :scratch:

If you're referring to longevity, almost nothing can go wrong with them. Brand new, never used ones come up occasionally, as do Garrard 301s, etc, sometimes, so it's something of that quality I'd be aiming for.

Anyway, this conversation is more 'pie in the sky' than anything else, because my Techy is liable to outlive me!

Marco.

[Audioman]

See if you can find replacements now for the three main chips without canibalising an old deck.

Most other decks contain components that you can most likely buy from places like RS.

I think Dave Cawley bought a supply of techie replacement chips (probably to keep his own refurb business going). Like Loricraft I don't think he is going to sell parts. Inspire have obviously got a supply of the boards for their new DD's.
I doubt there will be readily available parts for much longer. Just remaining stock. From a long term servicability point of view I would go for a vintage Thorens or Garrard every time. Modern belt drives are pretty simple and substitute motors belts and power supplies are available and can usualy be employed if necessary.

[DSJR]

A 124 is potentially noisier than an SP10, but I've only heard them in isolation I admit and have never done direct comparisons. The plinth options on an SP10 are wide open, as they are for Garrards, so I'm sure it must be possible to close the gap somewhat if you really do feel the 124 in comparison is better (I LOVE the 124 though).

I dunno Marco, you go on about absolutist statements, then make your own about the SME M2-12R :lol: I've always wondered why many seem to ignore these arms (and the shorter brethren they make), since the prices are reasonable in comparison with the 309, 312 etc and they may be rather better than the Jelco for all I know - anyone done any comparisons?????

PLEASE SME, can you have a rethink on your spare parts prices??? They're so high they're almost laughable, especially on long established parts for forty year old arms, admitting the fit and finish is second to none........

The thing is regarding all audio equipment, it's only built and spares stocked for a finite time. The DJ fraternity have done you Techie owners a HUGE favour in keeping this machine alive for thirty or more years - remember the huge number of Technics predecessors that the market was flooded with in the early to late 70's, when the 1200mk2 was first introduced (from memory) (SL1200mk1, SL1500, SL1800, mark2 versions of each plus all the auto derivatives)..

I'm worried about the hum aspect since the OP is going balanced to the phono stage. Techies by their very nature should be all but silent even in standard single-ended output form, but since the original transformer is directly under the platter on the 1200mk2, removing this and putting a decent external supply in place should clear this completely I reckon. Removing hum in a vinyl playback system makes a HUGE difference to reproduction quality in the bass, I think, so your requirements should be well addressed by this mod almost certainly.

As to value, are you going to change the deck after all this work? I know many of us get itchy feet and want to try alternatives, but a fully tricked out Techie should get you very close to the maximum available from the vinyl medium and you can always fine tune things with cartridges etc...

[chris@panteg]

Hi Chris,



I believe that it was introduced in 1957. What's that got to do with the price of frilly panties? :scratch:

If you're referring to longevity, almost nothing can go wrong with them. Brand new, never used ones come up occasionally, as do Garrard 301s, etc, sometimes, so it's something of that quality I'd be aiming for.

Anyway, this conversation is more 'pie in the sky' than anything else, because my Techy is liable to outlive me!

Marco.

Just that its over 40 years old much like early SP10's which apparently can't be much cop, as you were saying the other day .

[Marco]

Hi Mark,


Not sure if I like the looks of that plinth on the 124. Blackadders looks quite pretty.


I agree, but I can't remember there being much difference? Refresh my memory :)


If it was me, and I had the money, I'd be going for a 124 sooner rather than later. They ain't going to get any cheaper.


Cost, if or when it happens, won't be a consideration.


Considering the amount of money some of the 1210 upgrades cost a rather nice, fettled, 124 would be an excellent alternative.


Oh, trust me, if I'd known more about TD-124s before I embarked on my modded Techy journey, it would never have gotten off of the ground! ;)

Come to think of it, that's a slightly scary thought... I wonder where we'd all be now if I hadn't done what I did with the modifying the Techy and reported it here and elsewhere on the Internet?? :eek:

Marco.

[Marco]

Just that its over 40 years old much like early SP10's which apparently can't be much cop, as you were saying the other day .

There are no electronics inside a TD-124 to potentially drift wildly from original spec - that's the difference, daftee!!

Being an idler-drive, the TD-124 is a mechanical beast. Generally, mechanics can be fixed more easily than electronics, and there are plenty of original parts available for the Thorens, unlike the SP10! ;)

Marco.

[Barry]

When/if my Techy dies (fatally), I'll simply sell the bits I can and transfer the arm and cartridge onto the mintiest Thorens TD-124 I can find, which for me, when correctly fettled, wipes the floor with an SP10.

One of the nicest looking ones I've seen so far is Tony L's on pfm:


http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1007/6775945803a5c92c7e21o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/6775945803a5c92c7e21o.jpg/)


Visually, that ticks all the boxes for me. Such elegant simplicity!


I'd also buy an SME M2-12R (the best pick-up arm SME make, bar none):


http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2756/m212r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/m212r.jpg/)


And use it on the 124 as my 12" option. Then, worry not forever and just listen to music... However, I think it'll be a long time before that happens! :cool:

Marco.

:drool: :drool: :drool:

One day I'll loan you one of my 124s for you to try Marco, though I suspect it is noisier than the Technics.

Regards

[DSJR]

I reckon there's been some scare-mongering going on regarding wildly drifting components.. By the 70's, far eastern capacitors were far better made and more reliable than those in UK made equipment (even top brands like Quad and Radford suffered).

The bottom line is that the Techie direct drives, unless they're ex broadcast models used 24/7 for many years, *should* be good to go for another thirty years or so, since the on-board caps run cool (I think) and hopefully well within their tolerances. The thing is, there are well thrashed pro amps out there, over thirty years old and using pretty standard components and which still exceed their specs by a good margin - and I'm not talking vintage Crowns here either...

Just for a giggle - have a look at this link and the pro-amp porn shown. Many of these amps have been truly trashed and still work to a good standard - look at the caps inside these... I'm sure a humble SL1200mk2 can last at least as long :)

http://forum.speakerplans.com/the-amplifier-internals-thread_topic23787_page1.html

[Marco]

Hi Dave,


A 124 is potentially noisier than an SP10, but I've only heard them in isolation I admit and have never done direct comparisons. The plinth options on an SP10 are wide open, as they are for Garrards, so I'm sure it must be possible to close the gap somewhat if you really do feel the 124 in comparison is better (I LOVE the 124 though).


Regarding noise, you're absolutely right, but the best TD-124s I've heard were near-silent. And in any case, I'd be willing to put up with a slight bit of idler wheel noise for the beautiful 'tone' and wonderfully 'effortless musicality' these T/Ts have, which to my ears, make SP10s sound rather 'frigid' and sterile in comparison.


I dunno Marco, you go on about absolutist statements, then make your own about the SME M2-12R :lol:


Lol... Any statements I write are always my own opinion, unless clearly stated otherwise!

The SME 'classic' stainless-steel tonearms, to my ears, always sound much more 'musically right', expressive and 'alive' than their (to me) bland sounding magnesium counterparts, which to my ears, dampen the fun out of music. The only way of fixing that is by fitting a 'toppy' sounding cartridge, which of course creates its own problems.


I've always wondered why many seem to ignore these arms (and the shorter brethren they make), since the prices are reasonable in comparison with the 309, 312 etc and they may be rather better than the Jelco for all I know - anyone done any comparisons?????


I've not done the comparison, but I suspect that the M2 would piss all over a Jelco SA-750, and similarly the M2-12R would do the same with the 12" Jelco.

The reason why the 'classic' SME arms are rather ignored is because for many they are an unknown quantity, and also because SME's magnesium arms are touted as being superior by the hi-fi media and dealers. Therefore, 'punters' swallow that hook, line and sinker, along with being influenced by the 'sexier' look and perceived superior build quality of SME's magnesium tonearms.

In my experience, however, a Series M2-9, with the right cartridge, is actually superior to a 309. And comparing the M2-12R, fitted with an SPU (quite simply a match made in heaven, as indeed it was with the old 3012), against a 312S, fitted with whatever cartridge you like, is 'interesting', to say the least! :eyebrows:


As to value, are you going to change the deck after all this work? I know many of us get itchy feet and want to try alternatives, but a fully tricked out Techie should get you very close to the maximum available from the vinyl medium and you can always fine tune things with cartridges etc...

Was that directed at me, matey? :)

Marco.

[Marco]

One day I'll loan you one of my 124s for you to try Marco, though I suspect it is noisier than the Technics.


That would be brilliant, Barry! I would certainly report the results here :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

Hi Dave,

Was that directed at me, matey? :)

Marco.

No it wasn't, but to the OP [Admin edit: of the original thread this discussion was moved from].

[Marco]

No worries :)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Hi Dave,



Regarding noise, you're absolutely right, but the best TD-124s I've heard were near-silent. And in any case, I'd be willing to put up with a slight bit of idler wheel noise for the beautiful 'tone' and wonderful effortless musicality these T/Ts have, which to my ears, make SP10s sound rather 'frigid' and sterile in comparison.



Lol... Any statements I write are always my own opinion, unless clearly stated otherwise!

The SME 'classic' stainless steel tonearms, to my ears, always sound much more 'musically right', expressive and 'alive' than their (to me) bland sounding magnesium counterparts, which to my ears, dampen the fun out of the music. The only way of fixing that is by fitting a 'toppy' sounding cartridge, which creates its own problems.



I've not done the comparison, but I suspect that the M2 would piss all over a Jelco SA-750, and similarly the M2-12R would do the same with the 12" Jelco.

The reason why the 'classic' SME arms are rather ignored is because for many they are an unknown quantity, and also because SME's magnesium arms are touted as being superior by the hi-fi media and dealers, so 'punters' swallow that hook, line and sinker, along with being influenced by the 'sexier' look and perceived superior build quality of SME's magnesium arms.

In my experience, however, a Series M2, with the right cartridge, is actually better than a 309. And comparing the M2-12R, fitted with an SPU (quite simply a match made in heaven, as indeed it was with the old 3012), against the Series V-12, fitted with whatever cartridge you like, is 'interesting', to say the least! :eyebrows:



Was that directed at me, matey? :)

Marco.

The M2-12R is slightly more expensive than a 309 but quite a bit cheaper than a 312S. I think it was brought out due to the demand for the old 3012 on the used market. It's a pity SME have not done a M2-9R as this would be easier to accomodate. Need to replace the old style headshell with an Ortofon or something similar. Which style of SME arm is superior is debatable but I would guess it is down to TT and cartridge used as to which is best.

The problem is we are reliant on others opinions in the context of their own systems as to the differences. Can't see one finding a dealer that will demo the entire SME/Jelco range on the same deck/system. SME V arms are either the best thing out or absolute rubbish depending on who you listen to.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


The M2-12R is slightly more expensive than a 309 but quite a bit cheaper than a 312S. I think it was brought out due to the demand for the old 3012 on the used market.


Actually, and to correct my earlier statement: it's the 312S, not the V-12 I've heard in comparison with an M2-12R. {Error now edited}

When an SPU is in the equation with an M2-12R, the sonic synergy is just so 'right' that, for me, it renders as irrelevant any comparison with a 312S, unless fitted with a cartridge that satisfies my tastes, which is difficult, as there are precious few modern cartridges I could live with.

Martin T's Shelter 5000 is one, but I'm not sure how well it would work on the SME. I do enjoy Guy's Audio Note Io, however, on his SME V. The Io is another of the select few modern MC cartridges I could live with.

The whole raison d'être for the M2-12R is to satisfy demand from the Japanese market, in order to fit their SPUs, in circumstances when suitable quality 3012s are not available. Like I said, an M2-12R or 3012/SPU is a veritable match made in heaven.


It's a pity SME have not done a M2-9R as this would be easier to accomodate. Need to replace the old style headshell with an Ortofon or something similar. Which style of SME arm is superior is debatable but I would guess it is down to TT and cartridge used as to which is best.


Absolutely - and I agree about an M2-9R. However, the Series M2-9 really deserves much better exposure and more credit than it gets, as with the right cartridge, it is a fabulous sounding tonearm. But people tend to lack imagination or the ability to apply some lateral thinking! :rolleyes:


The problem is we are reliant on others opinions in the context of their own systems as to the differences. Can't see one finding a dealer that will demo the entire SME/Jelco range on the same deck/system. SME V arms are either the best thing out or absolute rubbish depending on who you listen to.

I agree, although I'd never refer to an SME V as "absolute rubbish". It's a very good tonearm. It just doesn't have my type of sound, and for me, is over-hyped and overpriced, in comparison to other tonearms on the market, which IMO, sonically outperform it for less money.

Marco.

[Canetoad]

See if you can find replacements now for the three main chips without canibalising an old deck.

Most other decks contain components that you can most likely buy from places like RS.

There'll be probably more spare parts out here for them than any other deck ever made! How many were manufactured again? :scratch:

[Dingdong]

Did you come up with that statement after you checked the availability of spares or did you just make it up as you went along?

[Audioman]

Hi Paul,

Absolutely - and I agree about an M2-9R. However, the Series M2-9 really deserves much better exposure and more credit than it gets, as with the right cartridge, it is a fabulous sounding tonearm. But people tend to lack imagination or the ability to apply some lateral thinking! :rolleyes:

Marco.

Marco.

What do you regard as the right cartridge for an M2-9 ? Judging from the current specs my guess is a 309 with upgraded int wire and a replacement cable should run a V close. Also the earliest versions of the Gyrodec were used in development (before SME did tt's) so the 300/IV/V series should in theory be an ideal match. Sadly little information on the M2-9 is available and early reviews weren't that glowing which probably leads to it being overlooked.

Paul

[bobp]

I have bought brand new 1200, two spare motors/boards, spare spindle and service manual. It will last next 30-40 years, perhaps longer then me, unless some nuclear attack blow us away together.

[Darren]

Surely the LP12 has to be near the top of the pile if you need to keep one running for decades to come. They sold in quantity, the oldest ones are still going strong thirty odd years on, the company still produces them and all parts are available new.
Add in the number of folks producing tuned parts, relative mechanical simplicity and rock hard used values ( which says much) and the LP12 looks unbeatable. ( no I don't own one.)

[chelsea]

I would have thought the old garrards ,thorens 124 and some of the simple belt drives have to be the best bet for long term lifespan and easy enough to mend.

If money was not a problem i would go for a well fettled garrard 301.

[Ali Tait]

Nick (Lurcher) can repair SP10 electronics.

[stevied]

Nottingham analogue :)

[BTH K10A]

If you want a turntable that will outlast you and has plenty of support for servicing and repair (albeit in Germany) then you can't beat an EMT 930. Vet little to go wrong electronically. :)

Designed as a complete package so total synergy between all parts.
No trying a dozen tonearm/cartridge combinations before you think it sounds "right" :brickwall:

Battleship build quality with a bearing and shaft that will see you turned to dust before they wear out. :deceased:

Seem to be a good investment so you won't loose money if you decide to sell. :champagne:

Lots of options like valve or SS phono amps, glass platters, anti vibration cradles that really work, plug and play mono or stereo, etc. :thumbsup:

Sounds good too. :rock:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_1283.jpg

[Barry]

If you want a turntable that will outlast you and has plenty of support for servicing and repair (albeit in Germany) then you can't beat an EMT 930. Vet little to go wrong electronically. :)

Designed as a complete package so total synergy between all parts.
No trying a dozen tonearm/cartridge combinations before you think it sounds "right" :brickwall:

Battleship build quality with a bearing and shaft that will see you turned to dust before they wear out. :deceased:

Seem to be a good investment so you won't loose money if you decide to sell. :champagne:

Lots of options like valve or SS phono amps, glass platters, anti vibration cradles that really work, plug and play mono or stereo, etc. :thumbsup:

Sounds good too. :rock:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_1283.jpg

Oi Andy - less of the sales 'pitch': they'll all want one, and that'll push up the prices for all things EMT on eBay! :doh:

[chelsea]

Nah would still prefer a 301.

[DSJR]

Surely the LP12 has to be near the top of the pile if you need to keep one running for decades to come. They sold in quantity, the oldest ones are still going strong thirty odd years on, the company still produces them and all parts are available new.
Add in the number of folks producing tuned parts, relative mechanical simplicity and rock hard used values ( which says much) and the LP12 looks unbeatable. ( no I don't own one.)

All the early LP12's will have worn out main bearings - way inferior in longevity to a Thorens of the period IMO. What happens when Linn cease manufacture of the belts? The little Philips/Airpax motors wont last forever and the pulley is heat-sweated on, although the current springs and grommets may last better than the originals, which go off and sag long before the Thorens equivalents do.

Maybe one day someone will come along with bearing refurbishments as Lenco and Thorens (124's) have. The LP12 won't last forever, especially at the silly prices it sels for now, although forty years for the basic model ain't bad, itself a blue-printed TD150 from 1967 or so...

[sq225917]

You boys are funny.

Almost any flat belt can work on a Linn, the pulleys come off with boiling water and pliers and I've never seen a worn out bearing that wasn't run dry or stored in the damp. I know guys with 30 year old LP12's and the bearings are perfect, user error damages them.

1. Buy a deck with no silicon in it, no chips= no redundancy.
2. Buy a deck that sold in large numbers= lots of potential spares.
3. Buy a deck where the spare parts are used in other fields= consistency of supply.
4. Buy a deck with few moving parts= less to wear.
5. Buy a deck with simply made parts where tolerance is not critical.


If you do that, you'll end up with an LP12 or a Rega, both of which will go on forever and ever. Anything else is going to be an expensive choice in the long run. I know these aren't necessarily the popular choices on this forum, but they are the logical, lower cost options.

[DSJR]

What about the flats where the rounded single point should be after ten years of regular use? Mine was shagged after six years (12*** serial number), let alone the disasters made in the mid 80's (Linn caught some of them, but there were loads of borderline cases that would take a while to show up). Apologies Simon, I was an arch LP12 setter-upper for far too many years to agree with you on this one ;) The Cirkus upgraded bearing came none too soon IMO.

[Darren]

Oh my God! I've agreed with Sq.... Can't go on.... Must end it all by eating the sharp bits of my broken stylus scales.....

On the other hand..... :)

[Marco]

On the other hand..... :)


You could have a wank...

Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

How many 1200's are there in the wild... a few million??? I do not see any reason at all to be worried about keeping a 1200 running.

[Darren]

You could have a wank...

Marco.

Thank mate: that's the best laugh I've had all day!:lol::eyebrows:

As a teenager I worked weekends at a garden centre. They sold some pseudo 'classic' garden statuary with such titles as 'wistful Pan' and 'cherub riding a dolphin'. These soon became ' furry fucker thinking about having a wank' and 'boy fucking a fish'.

We were simple creatures......

[BTH K10A]

Oi Andy - less of the sales 'pitch': they'll all want one, and that'll push up the prices for all things EMT on eBay! :doh:

OK Barry.

Marco can you delete my original post as we don't want the rest of you finding out you've all been going down the wrong road to nirvana all these years. :D

[sq225917]

If it wasn't for the silicon the 1210 would be my number one long term choice purely on sales volume alone.

[StanleyB]

Every time I spin up my DDX-1000 it puts a smile on my face. I am so glad that I didn't go with the regular crowd, and bagged myself a real gem. It's one of those decks that I would gladly own two of.

[Dominic Harper]

My first choics has to be the 124. I have recently heard a 124 that Dom serviced and that is my ultimate turntable and I will get one at some point, but this SP10 that we have here looks absolutely gorgeous which we have done a slate plinth for, we haven't heard as yet because the customer is bringing his PSU tomorrow. So I'm looking forward to having a good listen.

Anyway, I just wondered what people thoughts were on the Lenco L75? I have heard a few of these fettled and serviced in new plinths with a differents arm and carts and they sound fantastic, they are a fraction of the cost compared to SP10s, 124s, technics and of course the Garrards, although they have increased in price compared to 12 months ago. I think that the L75 is a little underated. That is my opinion.

Natalie;)

[chelsea]

Only heard a couple of lencos but both times being very impressed.
Have to be one of the best bargains going.
I expect prices to rise over next couple of years.

[WOStantonCS100]

Lenco's are kind of hard to come by in my neck of the woods.

Ultimately, though, if all 10 of my Technics decks died... I'd use whatever I could get my hands on to keep spinning vinyl (barring a groove-wrecker). That leaves the choices wide open; everything from a belt driven Project Debut III/Speed Box/Acrylit Platter to an idler drive Trans-Fi Salvation to begging Simon to build me something!! :) It's good for me to keep in mind that at one time all I had was a BSR changer! Got vinyl?

[Darren]

What is it you like in particular about the 124 Natalie?

[accuphaseman]

Just a thought but how old is the Linn Axis. They cannot be serviced anymore.

[Dominic Harper]

What is it you like in particular about the 124 Natalie?

Hi Darren, I love everything about these decks. The look, the sound everything. We have another here at the moment that is going in a slate plinth and I cannot wait to listen to it, but the one we had prior belonged to a customer of ours in Manchester, this was the first time I had heard a TD124, and I just thougth it sounded amazing, very clear and sweet, I struggle with sound as I a bit deaf, and I don't like turntables that shout as I cannot hear the full piece of vinyl. Granted we were listening to it through our Hawthorne speaker and Tskaridis valves, on a slate rack, but that turntable was the next best thing to our 401. I love the sound of the 401 too, but if I can get my hands on a 124, it will be in slate sitting next to the 401. But intitally I fell for the looks, it just looks amazing. but as I have said I haven't heard this SP10 yet, so I will reserve judgement, however I do love the look of the SP10. I have just cleaned the rubber mat and even that has made it look even better. But for now, the 124 is the turntable for me after the 401.

Natalie;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Just a thought but how old is the Linn Axis........
Hi, you have a message on your profile page (http://theartofsound.net/forum/member.php?u=2027)

[Dominic Harper]

Just a thought but how old is the Linn Axis. They cannot be serviced anymore.


Dom serviced one of these decks sometime ago, but he said it would depend on what was wrong with it. Good luck with it:)

Natalie;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

The Axis was introduced in 1987 - so 25 years old for an original one!!!!!!

[NRG]

Nick (Lurcher) can repair SP10 electronics.

So can I now(!) to a degree... But there's still much to learn! :stalks:

The motor is its achilles heal as are the ASICs on the 1210 but where theres a will theres a way to keep any deck running just like vintage cars, clocks/watches, traction engines, etc...

[NRG]

My first choics has to be the 124. I have recently heard a 124 that Dom serviced and that is my ultimate turntable and I will get one at some point, but this SP10 that we have here looks absolutely gorgeous which we have done a slate plinth for, we haven't heard as yet because the customer is bringing his PSU tomorrow. So I'm looking forward to having a good listen.

Anyway, I just wondered what people thoughts were on the Lenco L75? I have heard a few of these fettled and serviced in new plinths with a differents arm and carts and they sound fantastic, they are a fraction of the cost compared to SP10s, 124s, technics and of course the Garrards, although they have increased in price compared to 12 months ago. I think that the L75 is a little underated. That is my opinion.

Natalie;)

If mounted appropriately and with a good idler wheel the Lencos can be truly engaging. Its another deck that will go on for years with the appropriate maintenance.

[Tea24]

I agree about the Lenco, but I would add a new upgraded bearing and a new arm. I also agree about the Nottingham Analogues; there is really nothing to go wrong with them. I do hanker after a 124 though, but it is considerably more mechanically complicated than a Lenco.

All in all it is rather like motor cars; I have a 9 year old Audi and, mechanically it is excellent, but I am sure the dreaded electronics will let it down long before the mechanical side.

[DSJR]

I agree about the Lenco, but I would add a new upgraded bearing and a new arm.


My thoughts on NAS decks are well documented here, so no point in further ramming them home to a largely unappreciative audience (they're not direct or idler driven you see, so can't possibly be any good :().

As for the Lenco 75. What the fugg is so wrong with the arm it comes with? I don't think anyone has ever really done a proper objective annihilation of this design (same with the simple but effective Thorens TP13 and early AR tonearms), but these things are routinely junked 'cos "newer is better." All the L75/78 tonearm needs is for someone to come up with an AFFORDABLE - i.e. not Funk price - replacement arm tube/V shaft/headshell assembly to drop into the existing horizontal bearing/bias assembly, which is free of friction and usually well toleranced I think you'll find. One could then use the existing good quality cueing device (maybe a spacer would need to be added) and counterweight if the shaft was the same diameter and the deck itself would still have some semblance of the original.. Speedy Steve, where are you?????????

OK, whinge and rant over. The GL78 project should be in full swing before too long, so I'll put my heart where my mouth is soon and send some pics through when it's done and in use in the main system...

[hifi_dave]

I appreciate you..:kiss:

In thirty years of selling Nottingham Analogue turntables, I've never had or seen a faulty turntable or arm from them. Not only do they sound good and are easy to use but they are built like Russian tractors for a long and trouble-free life.

[DSJR]

And here's me thinking noone loves me :eek: :o

[bogle111]

I appreciate you..:kiss:

In thirty years of selling Nottingham Analogue turntables, I've never had or seen a faulty turntable or arm from them. Not only do they sound good and are easy to use but they are built like Russian tractors for a long and trouble-free life.

The Russian tractor is a lot cheaper these days though. Never lived with a NA so can't comment.

Apart from a Dual 1019 I got at 17 from a PX, the first turntable I got was a 124II with SME 12". Then through 401's, 301's, L75, L85, TD's too many to list, back to 124II's two of with 3012's, LP12's, Pink, a Rock, Oracle, Rocksan, Nakamichi, an arm full of Michells, it wasn't till a customer Px'ed a complete PLC-590 that I became a fan of DD. Then a complete SL1000 came along. These last two are my favourites.

I recently went out and bought another complete SL1000. I would not do that with the others mentioned.

For longetivity with sound quality (nothing added like tone), the PLC-590 or the SP10II any day. There are people around that can keep these going no problem, and the parts are available, especially in the states. The SP10II is not the difficult chip one.

Regards
Pete

[chris@panteg]

I appreciate you..:kiss:

In thirty years of selling Nottingham Analogue turntables, I've never had or seen a faulty turntable or arm from them. Not only do they sound good and are easy to use but they are built like Russian tractors for a long and trouble-free life.

I rate NA decks very highly , I have spent a couple of afternoons listening to Spacedeck
and a Mentor.

Would love an SP10 though.