Tell me about decca cartridges

[stevied]

As I am trying an old Stanton cartridge out and it's not that bad,

How good our these decca cartridges ?


I read somewhere the c4e was rather good do you have to use Hancock arms to get the best out of them?

Thanks in advance

[Patrick Dixon]

Is a Hancock arm one of those that's rather difficult to get blood out of?

Seriously, they're good, really good. But they're also a unique design and it seems that they do need the right arm and setup to get the best out of them.

I'm currently using a Blue that's been rebuilt and re-tipped by John Wright and it's way better than any other cartridge I've owned (DL103, Troika, AT33PTG etc) but it does have a couple of quirks - it's very microphonic, and seems very sensitive to static. It doesn't exactly cover up for your dirty records but it does extract a terrific amount of detail and present it in a very dynamic and 'realistic' manner.

[hifi_dave]

No, you don't need a 'Hancock' arm to get the best from a Decca or a London.

The Hadcock arm works quite well but I have had far better results with the various Nottingham Analogue arms which have been designed with Decca/London in mind.

You do need an arm with good bearings and a bit of mass, some folk like a bit of damping. Rega arms do the job very well but there are many arms you can use.

[DSJR]

I think that, due to the direct scanning nature of the design, a decent uni-pivot suits them brilliantly.

Hadcocks of old were badly thrown together and fell apart when unpacking them. I understand modern ones don't do this, but they don't arf want their pound of flesh from this forty year old design..

[hifi_dave]

I was traumatised, in the past, by three arms - the Hadcock, Mission 774 and Syrinx. All three always either arrived broken or fell to pieces within a very short time, so I wouldn't like to recommend any of them. New samples of Hadcock might be better in this respect but I don't really know.

As I said, the Nottingham Analogue arms have always been designed around Decca/London cartridges and do the job well. They are also very well put together.

There are plenty arms which work with Decca/London - Ittok, Ekos, Rega R200 and the later RB's, Helius, Zeta, Decca's own, Graham, SME etc. Practically anything with good bearings and which won't be shaken to bits.

[worrasf]

I was traumatised, in the past, by three arms - the Hadcock, Mission 774 and Syrinx. All three always either arrived broken or fell to pieces within a very short time, so I wouldn't like to recommend any of them. New samples of Hadcock might be better in this respect but I don't really know.

As I said, the Nottingham Analogue arms have always been designed around Decca/London cartridges and do the job well. They are also very well put together.

There are plenty arms which work with Decca/London - Ittok, Ekos, Rega R200 and the later RB's, Helius, Zeta, Decca's own, Graham, SME etc. Practically anything with good bearings and which won't be shaken to bits.

Also the Jelco SA 750D - have a Decca Blue in one of these - needs a massy headshell and a tad of damping.

Steve

[hifi_dave]

Yes, that would do the job nicely as would an FR64S, FR14S, Brinkman, Sumiko, various Ortofon and many other good arms.

[John]

The Terminator is a great match for a Decca

[Welder]

Oi! I'll have you know my old Hadcock and London Decca Gold sounded feckin brilliant back in the day when I did record players. ;)

Okay, it wasn't for the butter fingered and you didn't want to do any heavy breathing in its vicinity.:eyebrows:

It didn't "fall to bits", but it did take some perseverance to set up correctly.

[hifi_dave]

As a dealer, you perceive things differently. Your arm was supplied by a dealer who checked it and maybe set it up before you took delivery.

As a dealer you get in an arm and it might have bits fallen off in transit, or might have rusty parts or the wiring might be intermittent, the cue might not work, the bearing might be notchy etc, etc but the customer probably wouldn't be aware of this because the dealer has got it sorted out.

Some arms we just wouldn't touch with a rusty bargepole, even though they might have been hyped in the mags. They were just so badly thought out, poorly made and unreliable that it just wasn't worth the hassle.

Oh the joy.

[Welder]

As a dealer, you perceive things differently. Your arm was supplied by a dealer who checked it and maybe set it up before you took delivery.

As a dealer you get in an arm and it might have bits fallen off in transit, or might have rusty parts or the wiring might be intermittent, the cue might not work, the bearing might be notchy etc, etc but the customer probably wouldn't be aware of this because the dealer has got it sorted out.

Some arms we just wouldn't touch with a rusty bargepole, even though they might have been hyped in the mags. They were just so badly thought out, poorly made and unreliable that it just wasn't worth the hassle.

Oh the joy.

You're havin a larf. I wouldn't have let a dealer anywhere near my record deck!
But, yes I've heard the stories about the self dismantling Hadcocks, but then again it was primarily an enthusiasts arm rather than a bolt on shelf bought product so I can understand why some dealers gave it a wide berth.

[DSJR]

The end user wouldn't have seen this, but the first batch of twelve Mission 774 arms I personally collected from farad had only four good usable ones. Of the others, four had terminally rattly bearings and the other four were too tighly done up with little free movement...

Of course Mission got this sorted, along with the casting finish as time went on, but the little cottage industries of the UK were, and still are sometimes, a little too "cottage" for their own good.

I also remember a company making well respected speakers and a fondly remembered turntable introducing their own take on a tonearm, made by another small concern. As supplied, the arm-tube was bent when it should have been straight and the finish was abysmal. Needless to say, we didn't take this product...

[hifi_dave]

Over the years we have had some truly awful, unreliable, badly stuck together bits of kit. I guess that with arms and turntables, they are fairly easy for an amateur to make, even if they make them badly. These products you just don't want to touch at any price.

I've had turntables where we never had the same product twice - each one was different to the previous one. One model which still gives me nightmares, had all manner of ills - suspension springs which would break at the slightest provacation, motors stuck in with double sided, bearings would wear out in a matter of weeks and chassis which could cut you to the bone. And there were others.:eek:

[DSJR]

But then you could have the likes of the FR tonearms, SME's (all of them), TD124's? which were made and finished like the fine, precision instruments they really were and still are. Built to last for decades and still look good fifty years on from manufacture. Even the garrard 301's and 401's, which were like heavily built tractors in comparisin, still look good after a darned good cleanup :)

That reminds me, I must get the TD160mk2 going with the SME now the TD125 is history :)

[hifi_dave]

Yeah, get that TD160 out of the loft.

[DSJR]

...and then what? Chuck it on the skip, or save for a better plinth and tweak it up? :D

[Welder]

Oi! yer at it again. :lol:

I loved my heavily modded Thorens TD160S. Pissed all over yer feckin Linns and that was with a Hadcock. :ner:

All of what you write may well be true from a dealers point of view but that doesn't mean you couldn't get excellent sound out of the combination with a bit of perseverance.
Come on chaps ,lets not get easy and confused with sound quality ;)

[dave2010]

...and then what? Chuck it on the skip, or save for a better plinth and tweak it up? :DMMMmmm. Should I dare to go in my loft? I think there's a Garrard 401 up there, and a Thorens something or other with an SME 12 inch detachable. The 401 should still have an SME 9 inch fixed. There's a cheapo direct drive unit also. I could do with getting something going to digitise some LPs.

Alternatively how much would I have to spend on eBay to get decent vinyl sound? I was rather impressed recently with one of the digitised tracks someone made- think it was from a Technics, and it had NO rumble!!!

Maybe still won't have time this year, but eventually I might have nothing else, or better, to do.

[keiths]

:doh: 401s shouldn't be sat in lofts, they should be playing records ;)

[Barry]

MMMmmm. Should I dare to go in my loft? I think there's a Garrard 401 up there, and a Thorens something or other with an SME 12 inch detachable. The 401 should still have an SME 9 inch fixed. There's a cheapo direct drive unit also. I could do with getting something going to digitise some LPs.

Alternatively how much would I have to spend on eBay to get decent vinyl sound? I was rather impressed recently with one of the digitised tracks someone made- think it was from a Technics, and it had NO rumble!!!

Maybe still won't have time this year, but eventually I might have nothing else, or better, to do.

Dave,

If you have anything like a Garrard 401 or a Thorens fitted with SME arms laying unused in your loft - you owe it, if not to yourself, but to other members to make use of these wonderful items.

If you don't want them for yourself, at least put them up on eBay and get a few bob for them (but only after you have first offered them to AoS members).

Failure to act promptly will cause you to be banned from the forum! :lol:

Regards

[dave2010]

Failure to act promptly will cause you to be banned from the forum! :lol:Ouch! I feel very threatened! :rolleyes:

Re the Garrard 401, I'm sure it has audible rumble - seemingly nothing like as good as some of the Technics kit which others round here use It might cost quite a lot to put it into a reasonable state, and in any case it's slightly damaged by a previous owner who chose to cut a small section off the base plate (!!!!) - though it's not a real problem.

Big problem is space, and SWMBO. Things may improve later in the year, but rooms need to be cleared out etc. We inherited a lot of stuff a few years ago, and even though we sold some of it, we have a whole room filled. It might have been better to sell everything - but we did try. Everything takes time - and maybe if I were to live again I'd go for simplicity and sell or dump stuff, rather than keep it around, but that's perhaps easier said than done.

If I decide to sell/dispose of the loft stuff, then I will offer the kit here, but it may not be so good as you would hope. Won't be for a while though - maybe a year or more - and I'm hoping to get it working eventually so not intending to sell - right now, anyway.

[Spur07]

Dave,

If you have anything like a Garrard 401 or a Thorens fitted with SME arms laying unused in your loft - you owe it, if not to yourself, but to other members to make use of these wonderful items.

If you don't want them for yourself, at least put them up on eBay and get a few bob for them (but only after you have first offered them to AoS members).

Failure to act promptly will cause you to be banned from the forum! :lol:

Regards

I collected some free speakers off a kind fellow local to me the other day - I saw his LP collection and asked what TT did he use. I hate the stuff, he replied, I abandoned vinyl the day CD arrived. He then bought his TT down from upstairs - an immaculate Thorens 126 MKIII. When I asked whether he'd be willing to sell it to me all of a sudden he started getting back into vinyl again :)

[Dominic Harper]

Please people listen, Garrards do not rumble period!
These wild claims probably came from some useless reviewer a long time ago and have stuck like the proverbial ever since.
They do need a bit of tlc to get them singing, but they are 40 years old!

[DSJR]

126mk3? isn't that one with thin outer platter and a weak servo motor giving loads of dynamic wow the older (and later) models didn't have????? :)

Still, if you prised it off him cheap and used a Shure V15 III with SAS tip, it might just be acceptable since it's pretty darned good in every other department I remember :)

[Spur07]

126mk3? isn't that one with thin outer platter and a weak servo motor giving loads of dynamic wow the older (and later) models didn't have????? :)

Still, if you prised it off him cheap and used a Shure V15 III with SAS tip, it might just be acceptable since it's pretty darned good in every other department I remember :)

I have no idea Dave, I no virtually nothing about TT's :) I'll bow to your considerable experience.

but i did notice it had a SME arm - i think the cartridge was Shure.

[DSJR]

The TD125 had a higher torque motor with the heavier cast outer platter and this was replaced in some 126 models with a low torque motor and lightweight outer platter, which servo-hunted all over the place. Strictly for 1 gramme trackers only as anything much heavier would upset the servo's badly.

I think it was the 126mk4 which returned to the original synchronous motor and heavier platter, but the LP12 came long around this point and the rest in the UK is history...