6mm or 10mm t&e? [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Artifolk

10-02-2012, 18:51

Artifolk

10-02-2012, 19:05

Two more question i should have placed in the original thread.
Have any of you notice a difference in SQ with different makes of Consumer unit?

Would i be better using standard MCB's in the consumer unit or go for something like RCBO's for added protection?

Marco

10-02-2012, 20:35

Hi Charles,

If you give me until later on this evening, after the scheduled forum downtime, I'll give you my advice on this, as I've done much experimenting in this area! :)

Marco.

Welder

10-02-2012, 20:47

I used twin 30 amp screened cable for mine if my memory serves me and a separate earth fed through steel conduit; mainly in the hope that i could sneak into next doors garden one day and conceal an earth rod and cable somewhere.

The art is to get the electrician not to take the supply from the distribution board feeding your current consumer box but to take a new mains in from the leccy boards outside supply.

MK anything should be fine with the appropriate breaker.
If you can persuade the electrician to sort out a single ground terminal buried somewhere not too dry in your garden this probably gives the best results. Not all electricians are happy doing this. You'll need to get your ground spike made up yourself if you are considering this. 1 metre x 20 mm solid copper rod should do it. Drill the appropriate sized hole in one end and side drill a row of three holes with tapped threads to grip the ground wire.
If you can get the wire welded in so much the better.

Z-A

11-02-2012, 07:48

6mm will be ample for each run, the amp sockets you could use 10 but not really necessary. Good move, and as above, try to take the new supply from the meter, split via HB, then to 2x CU's. Be aware that all mcb's and rcbo's etc have a massive detrimental effect on SQ. I use Hager with a simple switch.

Artifolk

11-02-2012, 08:18

If you give me until later on this evening, after the scheduled forum downtime, I'll give you my advice on this, as I've done much experimenting in this area! :)

Marco.

Marco... waiting is no problem, i'm not starting work at present( two weeks time), so your input will be greatly received.

If you can persuade the electrician to sort out a single ground terminal buried somewhere not too dry in your garden this probably gives the best results. Not all electricians are happy doing this. You'll need to get your ground spike made up yourself if you are considering this.

I hadn't even thought about this. I best do some reading up.

try to take the new supply from the meter, split via HB, then to 2x CU's.

This is my initial installation idea, i should have been a little more graphic with my wording in my first post.

worrasf

11-02-2012, 12:28

Well it will soon be time for me to redecorate the lounge (getting it in the ear). As some of you may already know i will be fitting a dedicated mains supply for the system.
I'm intending to place a new Consumer Unit next to the existing one via Henley blocks and run 8 runs of T&E to 8 single MK 13 amp unswitched sockets in the lounge, the distance from Consumer unit to sockets will be approx 5m's, would i be better off using just 6mm T&E or would there be a marked increase in SQ via 10mm over such a short length.

Look forward to your insights into this.

All work will be carried out by a qualified electrician.

Hi Charles
Have you considered installing a balanced mains supply at the same time as the rewire? Significant SQ benefits to be gained here for not a lot of dollar - see this thread http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11411&highlight=balanced+mains

Best of luck

Steve

Artifolk

11-02-2012, 15:35

Hi Charles
Have you considered installing a balanced mains supply at the same time as the rewire? Significant SQ benefits to be gained here for not a lot of dollar

I may look into this later but at the moment this is not my main priority, but out of interest where in the circuit would i place the Balance transformer, between the HB's and new consumer unit or after the consumer unit?

worrasf

11-02-2012, 15:50

I may look into this later but at the moment this is not my main priority, but out of interest where in the circuit would i place the Balance transformer, between the HB's and new consumer unit or after the consumer unit?

Between the consumer unit and your outlet sockets.
Steve

Arcamnut

11-02-2012, 17:04

Would I be better off using just 6mm T&E or would there be a marked increase in SQ via 10mm over such a short length.
You will struggle to terminate 10mm2 into the sockets,not designed for that size I am afraid.
6mm2 will carry more than enough current for your needs and be cheaper to boot!

Artifolk

11-02-2012, 17:24

Thought i post a sketch up of how i'm intending to go about this... any advice much appreciated .

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h419/Artifolk/ComsumerUnit.jpg

Artifolk

12-02-2012, 11:14

No electricians on here? Who could help me out with what type of circuit breakers to use..RCD's, MCB's RCBO's type A/B/C etc, what amperage 16,32 etc?

Z-A

12-02-2012, 17:27

I'm not an ee, but 6 amp is more than required, try not to be tricked into the thought that a higher rating will give better sound, they work against sq, so any 6 amp mcb will be workable. Google ' Roy K Riches' for his lengthy studies of mains implementation. If a sparky tests a 32 amp mcb feeding a cd player or pre amp etc, he will ask a few questions with raised eyebrows..

Artifolk

12-02-2012, 19:37

Jez... I've spent most of today reading up on how people have implemented their Hifi mains and have come to the conclusion that this is a complete minefield, so many different options... I've a headache and feel I'm none the wiser. :doh:
In all i thought this would be one of the easiest Upgrades but this is turning out to be one of the hardest.

Google ' Roy K Riches' for his lengthy studies of mains implementation.

Thanks Paul... maybe this will have some sane infomation. :D

worrasf

12-02-2012, 19:44

Jez... I've spent most of today reading up on how people have implemented their Hifi mains and have come to the conclusion that this is a complete minefield, so many different options... I've a headache and feel I'm none the wiser. :doh:

Thanks Paul... maybe this will have some sane infomation. :D

Charles,
For what it's worth (probably not much) all I did when we had a new extension built was to get the sparky to take a separate feed from the main house incoming mains meter to a new RCD consumer unit in the extension and then run a dedicated ring from a single RCD off that consumer unit to 2 sets of wall sockets purely for the HiFi. The twin and earth from the extension consumer unit fed a balanced mains transformer which then fed the aforementioned wall sockets - simples and cheap (relatively). The above bought about a definite improvement in SQ but the biggest improvement came from the balanced mains (I fitted this about 6 months after the new wiring so was able to compare).

Steve

Reid Malenfant

12-02-2012, 20:21

I wouldn't bother with earth leakage circuit breakers, any hifi equipment you will have plugged in will already have an internal fuse which will blow if there is an earth fault.

I'd fit MCBs, one per line from the consumer unit. What you need these to do is be rated to protect the cable! As you may well be using 6mm2 cable I'd suggest 32A MCBs, though 6mm2 can carry more depending on how it's installed, 32A is playing safe. Once again any hifi kit will have an internal fuse that will rupture if it draws too much current.

The plug that connects your kit to the mains has a fuse in it. That fuse is to protect the cable! So if using 2.5mm2 cable, which isn't out of the ordinary then fit a 13A fuse, again the cable can take more, but you won't find a heavier fuse that will fit :eyebrows:

Any white goods which you obviously will not be plugging into your hifi supply may well not be internally fused & the fuse rating in the mains plug then protects the cable & the appliance.

However, all hifi kit will have an internal fuse. So what you need to do in essense is provide all of your kit with as low an impedance supply as possible.

Let the internal fuses take care of the equipment, fuses in plugs protect the power cable & MCBs protect the cable feeding the power sockets & you'll be safe & have a nice low impedance supply :)

Artifolk

12-02-2012, 20:24

Thanks Steve

For bringing some sanity back, all this... i used 6mm2, i used 10mm2, i used 16mm2 and that's just the start, I'm not going to get into RCD's, RCBO''s and even Earthing arrangements with said risks.

Artifolk

12-02-2012, 20:34

Reid Malenfant

12-02-2012, 20:48

No worries, you just don't want to see what I'll be installing here :eyebrows:

If I could afford to run seperate cables for each socket I'd do so, but I reckon I'm looking at 18M from here to the consumer unit, 14M if I take up floorboards & make more holes in walls :rolleyes:

So I'll be running 10mm2 & maybe 2 x 6mm2 through some flexible steel conduit with a nice stainless steel braided covering. Perhaps I'm being a bit anal with the screening, but why not at the end of the day as the cable feeding the house is :hmm: Also the cable feeding all of my kit is as well & it certainly appeared to improve things :)

Marco

12-02-2012, 23:58

Hi Charles,

Sorry I'm rather late getting to this... You've been given very good advice so far, and what you're proposing is good.

I'd go with the 32A MCB's that Mark's suggested, but because I like to 'over-engineer' my mains set-ups, I'd wire it up with as heavy-duty a cable as you can, to lower the impedance on your dedicated power line, as far as is possible.

For that purpose I use 16mm armoured cable - the exact same stuff as what's used to bring mains power into your house from the relay or sub-station! Yes, it's very stiff and can be a bitch to work with, but trust me, it makes a significant difference, sonically. You can buy this cable from electrical wholesalers, such as Edmundson Electrical or City Electrical Factors. Google for one in your area.

You may wish to consider running two separate 16mm armoured cable (or 10mm T&E) dedicated power lines; one for all your digital kit, and the other to run the rest of your gear, as isolating the digital switching noise generated by CDPs and DACs, from the rest of your equipment, is in my experience very sonically beneficial. In this case, simply run an extra cable (whichever type you decide to use) from your consumer unit to an un-switched MK single socket on the wall, from which you would connect a 2-way distribution block (Mark can get them for you), place that on your rack, and connect your CDP and/or DAC to it.

Also, as I've alluded to above with the 2-way distribution block, simply for your digital kit - instead of banks of sockets on the wall, I'd simply fit one single un-switched MK socket, and run a quality star-wired 4 or 6-way distribution block (such as those Mark Grant sells) from the single socket, and place the block on one of your Fraim racks, in order to isolate your system as much as possible from the effects of microphony. Mark grant distribution block: http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_59&products_id=193

In that respect, experience has shown me that plugging kit directly into wall sockets is worse, as you're effectively coupling your equipment to a main source of vibration (the wall). By fitting a distribution block in line, and plugging your kit into that instead (and sitting the block on your stand), you're isolating your kit more from a potential source of harmful vibration. I've experimented at length in this area and results have clearly shown that using a block is better. By doing so, you also get the benefits of the block's star-earthing, which isn't the case when simply plugging kit into the wall.

In effect then, you'd have two dedicated power lines, (16mm armoured or 10mm T&E), coming from your consumer unit (you should install a dedicated CU, separate from the main house one, just for your hi-fi system), which is fitted with two 32A MCBs (one for each 'spur'), supplying two single un-switched MK sockets, one feeding a 2-way distribution block for your digital kit, and the other feeding a 4 or 6-way block for all your other gear, both placed on a spare shelf of your Fraim racks. That will sound utterly fab!! :trust:

Another tip is, if you can, to ensure that your main distribution board (house mains supply) is fitted with a 100A fuse.

Depending on how old your property is, the main fuse may be accessible (rather than sealed in most cases these days) and you'll be able to check if it's rated at either 60, 80 or 100 Amps. A 100A fuse will ensure a lower impedance supply, and the knock-on effect, in terms of improving the performance of your system, if the fuse was only 60 or 80A, is considerable!

If the one fitted is less than 100A, and it's not sealed, then you can either change it yourself (all wholesale electrical suppliers carry the appropriate cartridge fuses), or if it is sealed, you can contact your local electricity supplier and ask for a main fuse upgrade. Just tell them you've installed an uber-power shower or something, and with all the other heavy current-drawing appliances you've got in the house, the 60 or 80A fuse is in danger of being overloaded.

Also, are you doing anything about a dedicated earth? I have a series of earth rods, plunged into my garden, which I use as a dedicated earth for my system - *that* makes a HUGE difference to its sonic performance!

Anyway, those are some of my suggestions. Good luck with what you decide :cool:

Marco.

Artifolk

13-02-2012, 16:07

Thanks for the info Marco, i did manage to get in touch with Roy K and have now got a lot more reading to do, I'll let you know what i decide and will post some pics as the work progresses. If any one here would like a copy, Roy seems only to pleased to pass his information on. I won't post his Email here but if anyone wants to get in touch just PM me and i'll pass it on.

Again, Thanks to all who have contributed. :cool:

Artifolk

13-02-2012, 16:57

Also, are you doing anything about a dedicated earth? I have a series of earth rods, plunged into my garden, which I use as a dedicated earth for my system - *that* makes a HUGE difference to its sonic performance!

Another tip is, if you can, to ensure that your main distribution board (house mains supply) is fitted with a 100A fuse.

1, I'm a little worried about this after my readings yesterday, I really think i need to speak with my Electrician on the subject, i don't want my house or Hifi supply being the Earth for the whole neighbourhood in the event of a incoming mains fault... scary stuff :eek:

2, So far thats the only part that is sorted

Marco

13-02-2012, 19:17

1, I'm a little worried about this after my readings yesterday, I really think i need to speak with my Electrician on the subject, i don't want my house or Hifi supply being the Earth for the whole neighbourhood in the event of a incoming mains fault... scary stuff :eek:

Absolutely. You MUST consult qualified personnel, in order to implement the above safely. That should be taken as a given!

Btw, please do consider using a mains block (or blocks), as I have outlined, instead of banks of multiple wall sockets, as it really is, sonically, MUCH better!

Anyway, good luck, and keep us posted how you get on :cool:

Marco.

P.S Check out that main house fuse, too, and make sure that it's rated at 100A.

Artifolk

13-02-2012, 19:30

Btw, please do consider using a mains block (or blocks), as I have outlined, instead of banks of multiple wall sockets, as it really is, sonically, MUCH better!

Even if i do go the way i outlined (looking more likely after reading some of Roy's literature) i can still try the Mains block idea ...:eyebrows:

I will admit though, Roy's TESTING has been aimed towards Naim Kit.

Marco

14-02-2012, 01:18

Indeed it has, so you could do a lot worse than take his advice.

I know Roy from the 'old days', when I was a Naimee. He has my utter respect, even though these days we've gone our separate ways, in terms of audio, and we hold slightly different views on the best way to install a mains set-up for a hi-fi system.

Just don't mention 'copper blanks' or up-rated buss-bars here! ;)

Marco.

Barry

14-02-2012, 01:41

Absolutely. You MUST consult qualified personnel, in order to implement the above safely. That should be taken as a given!

Btw, please do consider using a mains block (or blocks), as I have outlined, instead of banks of multiple wall sockets, as it really is, sonically, MUCH better!

Anyway, good luck, and keep us posted how you get on :cool:

Marco.

P.S Check out that main house fuse, too, and make sure that it's rated at 100A.

Sound advice Marco! (Sorry no pun intended)

Apropos the rating of the main house fuse, how would you know? Apart from asking your local electricity provider, and since de-regulation, who do you approach? Usually the main fuse is sealed (to prevent people by-passing the meter) and it is an offence to tamper with the seal.

If your property is old, the incoming mains cable might not be of 100A rating. The fuse is there to protect the cable. If the cable is of a lower rating, the local authority will not fit a higher rating fuse.

As you have mentioned you can do this yourself - but heaven help you if there is a fire: your insurance will be null and void.

Also, depending on the exact earthing arrangements provided by the elecricity company, supplementing the earthing with earth rods could be unsafe under certain fault conditions. A thread concerning this exists somewhere. I'll see if I can find it; I'm sure Ali (Tait) knows what I'm talking about and would concur.

Probably coming across as a bit of a 'Health and Safety Nanny', but any changes to do with the mains is a serious business and you have to know exactly what you are doing.

Regards

Marco

14-02-2012, 01:54

Hi Barry,

Can't dispute any of that, mate :)

With regard to the main house fuse, again you are correct. As our house is very old, the main house fuse holder, beside the incoming mains supply, was/is made of bakelite, and was also unsealed from when I first seen it. Quite simply, there was no provision for a seal of any description.

It looks very different to the modern arrangement. I suspect that it would've been installed long before the ones which are sealed came into being. Also, I carried out the work on my dedicated mains supply for my system over 8 years ago, when the legislation was different.

Anyway, the fuse holder had "100 Amp" written on it, which one would therefore presume was the correct rating for the fuse inside. However, when I pulled out the main fuse and opened up the fuse holder, inside was merely a 60A fuse!

Therefore, I installed a 100A fuse instead, which I purchased from my local branch of Edmundson, and the sonic improvement I got from my system, simply from doing that one thing, was quite remarkable! :eek:

However, things are likely to be different now for most people, and so if the fuse holder is sealed, you can't do anything about it. I certainly wouldn't advocate following any illegal practices :nono:

Marco.

Artifolk

14-02-2012, 05:22

Barry

This maybe the thread http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/earth.html

Marco... UPRATED BUZZ BAR <----- just had to say it :)

No worries on the Mains fuse, its already 100amp, due to a shower we had fitted approx 2 years ago.

Barry

14-02-2012, 11:08

Hi Charles,

Yes that's the one. We also had a thread here in AoS on the same topic. Perhaps one of the Moderators can find it.

Hi Marco,

Just because the main fuse holder is marked "100A" does not necessarily imply that is the size of the fuse fitted. It merely means that 100A is the largest fuse that can physically be fitted and the largest current the fuse holder is designed to handle.

As Mark has said, fuses are there to protect the cable. If the cable coming into your house is only rated at 60A, then a 60A fuse would have been fitted, so as to prevent the consumer drawing more than this and overloading the cable.

The consumer demand fifty years ago was a lot less than it is today; we just didn't have things like electric showers and other high power items, so incoming mains supplies were often 60A capability or less.

Regards

Welder

14-02-2012, 11:19

Whatever you do Charles, even if you do the work yourself, you have to get the work signed off by a qualified electrician or as mentioned, your household insurance will be invalid.

What you are allowed to do with mains electricity in your own house has changed considerably over the last few years. You're looking at another £50 to £200 just to get the electrician to sign the work off btw. ;)

Marco

14-02-2012, 13:18

Hi Barry,

Just because the main fuse holder is marked "100A" does not necessarily imply that is the size of the fuse fitted. It merely means that 100A is the largest fuse that can physically be fitted and the largest current the fuse holder is designed to handle.

Absolutely. As it worked out, we had the whole house rewired soon afterwards, and so the wiring was upgraded accordingly in line with having a 100A fuse.

That really did make a big difference to the sound of my system, even though it had always been running off of a dedicated 'spur'!

You have to be 100% SAFE at all times when dealing with electricity - that must always be taken as a given.

But what I will say is that some of the biggest and most fundamental sonic improvements I've heard in audio have come from significant improvements made to power supplies, and how audio equipment receives power from the incoming mains supply, i.e. one's 'mains set-up'.

It even puts the effect of upgrading most equipment internal components in the shade! :eek:

BUT IF IN ANY DOUBT, ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. SAFETY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST!!!

Marco.

Artifolk

14-02-2012, 16:57

Whatever you do Charles, even if you do the work yourself, you have to get the work signed off by a qualified electrician or as mentioned, your household insurance will be invalid.

I've no intention of doing any of the wiring myself, the chasing out of the wall and a new plasterboard lounge ceiling are a different matter. Thats my kind of diy.. ex plasterer in my youth.

Would be great if one of the Mods could dig the Earth thread back out as I'm sure it will be a valuable read.

Marco

14-02-2012, 19:42

Oi, lazy bones, you can use the Search facility just as well as us! ;)

Marco.

Barry

14-02-2012, 21:14

Aw! OK then, here it is:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5337

Have just read all 335 posts spread over 34 pages! :stalks: Ah, Happy Days! :scratch:

Artifolk

15-02-2012, 17:43

Thanks Barry, I'll take a look this evening.. i bet the thread goes off on quite a few tangents, as per all I've read so far.

Barry

15-02-2012, 17:55

Thanks Barry, I'll take a look this evening.. I bet the thread goes off on quite a few tangents, as per all I've read so far.

Oh yes! - from the reduction of mains source impedance to Health and Safety issues, via earthing systems, a sprinkling of Latin phrases, the toxicology of copper and back again. :lol:

Marco

15-02-2012, 18:00

And strangely (and somewhat disappointingly), no mention of frocks! :D

Marco.

Artifolk

15-02-2012, 18:09

Marco

Am i right in thinking 16mm Armoured is approx 25mm+ in overall diameter?

How on earth did you manage to get a 16mm2 core to fit a MK unswitched socket? :scratch:

Marco

15-02-2012, 18:58

Lol - I didn't. I should've mentioned that... I used one of these (a 60A junction box):

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3617/boisdrqbwkkgrhqyokiqeud.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/boisdrqbwkkgrhqyokiqeud.jpg/)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170761453306?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I can recommend that seller as being excellent.

I hard-wire that particular connection and don't use plugs or sockets. I have conventional 13A plugs on my power leads that go into the mains block, though.

Because there are nice fat 60A terminals inside the junction box, the 16mm2 armoured cable goes into one end (L, N , E), and the power cable for my distribution block goes into the other - works superbly! ;)

Some folk use American or European (un-fused) plugs and sockets for the job. I find the above solution much neater, and of course there are less connections :)

Marco.

Barry

15-02-2012, 19:42

And strangely (and somewhat disappointingly), no mention of frocks! :D

Marco.

Well whose fault is that? You should have described the outfit you wore when you undertook the rewiring.

I suspect you were wearing a salmon pink tutu with those lovely red ballet shoes of yours. ;)

Regards

Marco

16-02-2012, 01:50

Hehehe.... We did it all in our underwear! ;)

Charles, have you seen my previous post? :)

Marco.

Mark Grant

16-02-2012, 09:21

Lol - I didn't. I should've mentioned that... I used one of these (a 60A junction box):

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3617/boisdrqbwkkgrhqyokiqeud.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/boisdrqbwkkgrhqyokiqeud.jpg/)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170761453306?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I can recommend that seller as being excellent.

I hard-wire that particular connection and don't use plugs or sockets. I have conventional 13A plugs on my power leads that go into the mains block, though.

Because there are nice fat 60A terminals inside the junction box, the 16mm2 armoured cable goes into one end (L, N , E), and the power cable for my distribution block goes into the other - works superbly! ;)

Some folk use American or European (un-fused) plugs and sockets for the job. I find the above solution much neater :)

Marco.

Has this replaced the consumer unit for your hi-fi that was behind you rack ?
very ' minimalist' :)

Marco

16-02-2012, 10:14

Indeed it has, Mark. Do you approve?

It made quite a difference, sonically, and now everything is also much more accessible! :cool:

Marco.

Artifolk

16-02-2012, 17:06

They look similar to the ones shown in Roy's literature, but are these and the way you have wired in your Block connector compliant with the Electrical installation regs?

P.S Sorry for the late reply...Art School wednesday evenings

Marco

16-02-2012, 18:37

Dunno, mate. Best to ask Roy or someone else who knows.

I think much will depend on what you've got going on 'upstream' in your dedicated CU, in terms of MCBs/RCBOs, the rating of the cable you use for the installation, etc, and also whether your kit is fitted with the appropriate cases fuses :)

What I can tell you is that, sonically, the 60A junction boxes work VERY well indeed!

Marco.

Mark Grant

16-02-2012, 19:13

Indeed it has, Mark. Do you approve?

It made quite a difference, sonically, and now everything is also much more accessible! :cool:

Marco.

It has to be better than that consumer unit without many MCB's :) :thumbsup:

Artifolk

16-02-2012, 20:18

Just a thought,

With no offense to Mark but isn't his mains distribution block 2.5mm2 lead a bottle neck.. let me explain.. your using 16mm2 into 2.5 and then back to 4mm2 inside the distribution block.

Would it not be an advantage to say have the 2.5mm2 increased to say 4mm2, which would be a better match with the internals, and to which may help keep the Impedance down? :scratch:

Should i get my coat?

Marco

17-02-2012, 00:21

Hi Charles,

Yup, my mains block (the one Mark sells) is rewired with solid-core Furukawa cable, which is superb and a big upgrade over the stock cable. Mark can do this cable as a special order, at extra cost, and wire your distribution block with it :)

Marco.

Artifolk

17-02-2012, 18:42

I had an inkling you would have change the lead from 2.5mm2 to something more substantial.

Marco

18-02-2012, 21:55

Well, you know me, gotta dot all those I's and cross those T's... ;)

How's progress going now, anyway?

Marco.

Artifolk

19-02-2012, 08:12

Electrician is paying us a visit today, as we're have some other work done to the lighting (downlighters) and a few Sockets moved(she doesn't want to see any sockets), so after all that, hopefully i can try and explain what I'd like concerning the dedicated mains and see what his views are... "can't wait to see his face" :stalks: :eek: :doh: :scratch: :mental:
And no doubt mine after he's read me the 17th Edition riot act. :( :steam:

Also, 8 yard skip is sitting outside waiting to be filled, so today I'm clearing the lounge ready for the ceiling (needs replacing) to come down for wiring work... i love this sort of work.. Not!

All in all we're have new ceiling, some works to either side of the fireplace, basically just having it widened and new Walnut flooring, skirting, doors etc, basically a refurb.

I'll let you know what the outcome is on the mains later.

Artifolk

19-02-2012, 15:08

Just finished with the Electrician, he wants to speak to Roy concerning some of the installation ideas... he did say he'd go for the 16mm2 route because of the lower Impedance tho.
So i'll get in touch with Roy, and hopefully organize a call/chat with the Andy(electrician) and we'll take it from there.

One good thing did come out of the meeting, he can do the work within two weeks.. which obviously put a big :D on our faces.
This should give me enough time(Work Commitments) to pull the ceiling down, chase the walls and organize plaster board/plaster, love getting my hands dirty.

Z-A

20-02-2012, 23:09

Is it the 250 that you are using? 16mm will be way more than you need to use for that wee fella, rest of the system may pull a few amps max, a 250 & sc, not much more, trust me, I had them, and 300, krells, Arcs, Tom Evans monos, even my ASR E2 wouldn't need that. I use 10 as a single feed to a custom junction box, the 3x 6 from that to the sockets, no loss of dynamics here. 16 mm is industrial and unnecessary, your wallet tho.

Artifolk

21-02-2012, 20:12

To be honest, I won't know until Andy and Roy have a chat. My personal choice would be 8x 10mm2 OR 2x 16mm2 after all i read and understood.
Thanks for info go to Marco, Roy, Mark, Yourself and numerous other threads.

Your quite right its my money and with it I'd like to exploit this mains upgrade to the max(while the house is in complete disarray), i don't want to be thinking in 12 months time that i should have done this or that. Over engineering it may be, but if you don't try you'll never know. :D

Z-A

22-02-2012, 14:06

Charles, whichever way you go, I'm sure you will be pleased, mains is highly influential on sq. My preference would be 2 runs from the cu instead of 8.
Glad you got in touch with RKR too, i did hear that he was not so involved with this so much these days, I'm certain he will give good sensible advice to your spark.
Have fun and enjoy the ensuing mess..:painting:

Artifolk

23-02-2012, 21:37

Thanks Paul

Just got off the phone to Roy, what a total gentleman, very insightful, though most went over my head, but lets hope not my Sparks on Saturday.

Artifolk

25-02-2012, 22:23

Marco

25-02-2012, 22:28

Lol.... :doh: :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Artifolk

25-02-2012, 22:53

Naim sheep...:ner: :)

Marco

25-02-2012, 23:16

S'ok, you'll love it. Roy's been round the block... It's just a wee bit different than I would've done it! ;)

Anyway, keep us posted of progress :cool:

Marco.

Artifolk

25-02-2012, 23:25

This bloody Local discon point is the stickler, but the other half will go mad if i omit this and invalidate our insurance.:rolleyes:

Marco

25-02-2012, 23:40

Local discon point? Wassat, den? :scratch:

Marco.

Artifolk

26-02-2012, 13:17

We totally misunderstood what the Sparks was saying :doh:
I/we thought we needed a disconnection point at the socket end hence the MK sockets, but it turns out the consumer unit is the Local Disconnection point.

Marco

26-02-2012, 13:39

Lol - I was wondering what you were on about! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Mark Grant

28-02-2012, 21:03

Works on new consumer unit etc start next saturday, pics to follow.
After speaking with Roy about optimizing my Naim setup, i've decide to go for the 8X10mm2 route.
So to the Shopping list.

1X Memera AD8HE Consumer Unit.(Discontinued) Does anyone knows where i can obtain one of these? Second choice would be Memera AD10HED

8x Memera 1P type B 6kA MCB,32A

50m x 10mm2 T&E

8x Wall pattress
8x MK Unswitched sockets (Local disconnection point)

I've made no decision on the Earthing arrangement so far, I'll see how this all works beforehand.

Comments welcome.

Looks good :)

Make sure you buy a good brand of mains cable from a reputable supplier as there is a huge amount of counterfeit electrical cable on the market.

Would be a shame to do all this work and end up with some counterfeit tat from India or wherever.

http://www.aci.org.uk/

http://www.aci.org.uk/news_more.asp?news_id=21&current_id=1

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk-forum/15311-fake-cable.html

http://www.counterfeit-kills.co.uk/uk/index.php

There are also fake MCB's and consumer units :(

Artifolk

28-02-2012, 21:37

Thanks Mark, for the warning.

Is there anything those Chinese etc won't rip off... to be honest we've done it to ourselves, Companies passing technology over to them for their cheap labour(Exploitation) and all to make a fast buck... And look where that has got us.

All necessary Equipment has been bought from Edmundson Electrical/RS Components, bar the consumer unit.. i can't find one anywhere, but have located two secondhand ones, but i'm a little wary. I need to speak with my spark first but in the meantime any help about this would be most welcome.

I'll be coming your way in a month or so for some more 2.5 Leads.

Mark Grant

28-02-2012, 22:10

You will be OK with Edmundson and RS, proper companies :)

Be wary of any website selling branded cable and MCB's way too cheap, as they might not be what they claim to be.

easy to check the twin and earth cable by measuring the loop resistance.

Not so easy to spot fake fireproof cable for anyone installing fire alarms etc :(

A second hand consumer unit should be OK.
If you think about it it's just a box with a mounting rail to clip the MCB's onto and a strip of busbar to link the MCB's together. New busbar could be fitted if needed for next to nothing.

If it's a bit scratched or tatty looking you could spray is silver and call it 'Special Edition' or something..;)

Artifolk

01-03-2012, 21:23

Had a change of heart(sod the expense, you only live once), I'm now going for 32A 30mA Mem/Eaton rcbo's and 100A dp Isolator. This will bring my CU up to current(17th) regs.

Artifolk

18-03-2012, 19:55

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h419/Artifolk/IMAG0534.jpg http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h419/Artifolk/IMAG0533.jpg http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h419/Artifolk/IMAG0524.jpg

Forgot to post these up, 10mm wiring installed, some of the sockets, rcbo modules etc... more pics to come

Reid Malenfant

18-03-2012, 19:57

That is going to be one low impedance supply :D

Artifolk

18-03-2012, 20:00

Forgot to add, the cable lengths are 7.1 m before fitting.

Artifolk

19-03-2012, 21:35

We've decided to not chase the walls out, but encase the cabling down the wall in a box out.
The other half likes the idea of the box out, as she can incorporate this to match the decor and our bespoke alcove shelving.
My problem is with vibration, should i wrap each cable in something similar to Plumbers pipe insulation or use Rockwool... any ideas?