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View Full Version : Mastick as an insulator



realysm42
10-02-2012, 10:50
I recently purchased an item of Blok furniture and I'm happy with it, however, the tinkerer in my wonders if there's anyway to improve the damping it provides?

During construction, you place 4 metal rods through the tiered glass and wood, this is what holds it together. The wood has generous holes for these rods to go through and I was wondering if filling it with something like mastic would provide benefit?

Has anyone else tried anything like this?

Got any tips for me if you have and did it provide benefit to you?

I forsee myself having to add extra lenght to the end of the gun to be able to fill the recesses properly.

jon1
11-02-2012, 08:22
Expanding foam..You will have to buy the cleaner as well do one section at a time:)


jon

realysm42
11-02-2012, 10:26
Cool, why whould you use that over Mastic, that stuff dries hard doesnt it?

snuffbox
11-02-2012, 11:51
Blue tac?

realysm42
11-02-2012, 12:19
I don't think I've explained this very well, apologies:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/realysm42/stax_300_hifi_rack_audio_stand_oak_black.jpg

The four metal circles at each corner are actually metal rods that penetrate the unit all the way to the floor; the holes these rods fit in have generous gaps all around them and I wondered if Mastic would be suitable for completely filling them, to avoid microphony.

Blu tac ins't a bad suggestion for where the glass meets the wood however.

bobbasrah
11-02-2012, 12:30
I don't think I've explained this very well, apologies:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/realysm42/stax_300_hifi_rack_audio_stand_oak_black.jpg

The four metal circles at each corner are actually metal rods that penetrate the unit all the way to the floor; the holes these rods fit in have generous gaps all around them and I wondered if Mastic would be suitable for completely filling them, to avoid microphony.

Blu tac ins't a bad suggestion for where the glass meets the wood however.

Blutac or putty would fill the void and should be easily removeable if required.
Drill some tap washers to suit the rod?
Not sure why there should be any microphony though....

realysm42
11-02-2012, 12:31
Don't know if that's the right word for it, but if something doesn't fit perfectly flush, surely that means there's room for unwanted vibrations to move up and down the rack?

bobbasrah
11-02-2012, 12:51
Don't know if that's the right word for it, but if something doesn't fit perfectly flush, surely that means there's room for unwanted vibrations to move up and down the rack?

If by that you mean that the rod can vibrate in the gap, that will be the case anyway along it's length, increasing in pitch as it is tightened. The gap at the glass would constitute a tiny fraction of length.;)
Are you hearing the rod ringing or is this just a precaution?:scratch:

snuffbox
11-02-2012, 13:02
I think they used to produce blacktac.
That was sonically superior but twice the price;)

The Grand Wazoo
11-02-2012, 13:17
I think they used to produce blacktac.
That was sonically superior but twice the price;)

......and three hundred times harder to remove!

realysm42
11-02-2012, 17:54
If by that you mean that the rod can vibrate in the gap, that will be the case anyway along it's length, increasing in pitch as it is tightened. The gap at the glass would constitute a tiny fraction of length.;)
Are you hearing the rod ringing or is this just a precaution?:scratch:

I've put mastic in between every level, between both the glass and wood at every tier, and put as much as I physcially could in all of the wooden holes.

Left it for a few hours upside down with my mates pc on it for weight, I'm actually surprised, it sounds more coherent and detailed :cool:

Artifolk
11-02-2012, 18:33
Another thing worth a try is by changing( not sure whether you can do this with Blok) the Steel rod with Stainless steel, I did this to my Naim Fraim about 2 years ago and have never looked back. Improved focus and generally cleaned the sound up.

realysm42
11-02-2012, 18:40
Nice bit of advice, I can't see why that wouldn't help although it's too late for me now, it's basically stuck together until I chuck it out :D

Next bit of equipment rack I get will be a serious piece of kit, for now I'm happy.

DaveK
11-02-2012, 19:43
Another thing worth a try is by changing( not sure whether you can do this with Blok) the Steel rod with Stainless steel, I did this to my Naim Fraim about 2 years ago and have never looked back. Improved focus and generally cleaned the sound up.

I'm not arguing with you but I'm puzzled as to why this should be so. My background is in ferrous metallurgy and I can think of no reason why the properties of stainless steel should be so different to those of any other steel in this application - just askin' - anybody else any idea?
Dave.

realysm42
12-02-2012, 01:32
I'm not arguing with you but I'm puzzled as to why this should be so. My background is in ferrous metallurgy and I can think of no reason why the properties of stainless steel should be so different to those of any other steel in this application - just askin' - anybody else any idea?
Dave.

Complete novice suggestion but surely evey metal would behave differently in pretty much any application, simply because of their different make ups?

With regards to the application in question, I can't say there'd be an audible difference, but can't see why not either?

The Grand Wazoo
12-02-2012, 01:40
evey metal would behave differently in pretty much any application, simply because of their different make ups?

Different 'Evey Metal Make-Ups?
...wot like this.......?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3oWCZpamdm8/TEnqqech0yI/AAAAAAAAACw/mZgOHiKeM2o/s1600/kiss.jpg http://worldmustbecrazy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Mudvayne.jpg http://www.heavymetalgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/cannibal-corpse.jpg

realysm42
12-02-2012, 01:46
Something like that :D

Marco
12-02-2012, 02:10
Another thing worth a try is by changing( not sure whether you can do this with Blok) the Steel rod with Stainless steel, I did this to my Naim Fraim about 2 years ago and have never looked back. Improved focus and generally cleaned the sound up.

I also noticed the very same thing when I moved from using ferrous angle-iron Mana supports to non-magnetic stainless steel Mana supports. The difference wasn't subtle....... ;)

Trust your ears - if it sounds better (to you), then it is better (to you)!

Marco.

Roy S
12-02-2012, 02:19
Can I have first dibs on the Blok Mart when you want to move it on? Cheers

realysm42
12-02-2012, 02:24
Sure thing brother.

Be warned, it is has Mastic on every surface where the pieces come in contact with eachohter (this includes the spikes, but I'm sure if you really wanted rid of them you could use a spanner).

Honestly, it's made a big change to the sound, for the better :)

But yeah I'll give you a shout.

Artifolk
12-02-2012, 20:02
I'm not arguing with you but I'm puzzled as to why this should be so. My background is in ferrous metallurgy and I can think of no reason why the properties of stainless steel should be so different to those of any other steel in this application - just askin' - anybody else any idea?
Dave.

I had some 316 stainless steel 10mm rod left over from a diy project and had a thought, as Naim use SS spikes etc in the Fraim why not try replacing their Steel rods with the above... I've no idea whats going on, though to my ears it all sound so much tidier.

Last year i also changed all the half inch steel ball bearings to their equivalent in Silicon Nitrite and again noticed a marked improvement in Instrument separation, bass tightened up etc.

realysm42
12-02-2012, 22:18
Last year i also changed all the half inch steel ball bearings to their equivalent in Silicon Nitrite and again noticed a marked improvement in Instrument separation, bass tightened up etc.

What unit were these in/on, the Naim thing?

Artifolk
17-02-2012, 18:35
Yes the Naim thing...:lol:

At present( last six months), I'm experimenting with extra shelves between the main shelves. :eyebrows:

realysm42
17-02-2012, 18:52
What do you mean?

I could interpret that in a number of ways (or am being really thick).

Artifolk
17-02-2012, 19:04
Take a look here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14360

This is an old pic but notice the extra level in the base of the central rack.
I've added one more since this picture was taken between the CD and Pre.

I'll add one more after the renovation work in the lounge is completed and post some pictures.

realysm42
17-02-2012, 20:21
Christ, that's quite a system you have there (I won't pretend to recognise any of it, but I mean aesthetically!).

I interpreted you right though; I assume you've had success given that you're expanding on the idea?

Have you much experience with anything like these:

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Isolation-Platforms/cat_60

Artifolk
18-02-2012, 12:58
Christ, that's quite a system you have there (I won't pretend to recognise any of it, but I mean aesthetically!).

I interpreted you right though; I assume you've had success given that you're expanding on the idea?

Have you much experience with anything like these:

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Isolation-Platforms/cat_60


Thank you. Even the other half likes it.
System breakdown is in my Signature.

Yes, adding these extra levels has had a marked improvement, so far I've only played around with these to find what i think is the sounds best, as i previously mentioned I'm using two now. If this continues with the extra level I'll probably keep adding till all levels are separated or SQ starts to take a turn for the worst.


Also one thing i hadn't thought about until i received some literature on Dedicated mains supplies.
After reading up about magnetic fields and how each components field interacts with each other this seems to be the way to go IMO, keeping equipment further apart helps reduce this magnetic effect...hence the extra shelves. I'm probably on my own with this but who cares.
My ears tell me something is going on whether this is to do with added Isolation,Magnetic fields or both i don't know.

No sorry, have not tried any of them.

realysm42
18-02-2012, 13:43
That's one thing I was wondering, can you over do it with isolation/spacing to the point it's detrimental to the sound?

Artifolk
18-02-2012, 16:28
As with everything in life.. too much of a good thing always ends bad.