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Hello,
I am planning to change the internal wire of my Tannoy Lancasters with 15" Golds to something new. I've picked the cardas litz copper wire but I am not sure if 21,5 AWG would be good or too thin?
On some forums I've read that inside the speaker cabinets the lenght is so short that it does not matter while on other forums people recommend to put at least 17 AWG wire.
What is the truth?
I would put this wire between the 15" Gold and the crossover network.
I would appreciate any suggestions/help.
Thanks,
Vencel
Hi Vencel,
I can thoroughly recommend VDH CS-14 Hybrid: http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx
High-quality, easy to work with, and not too expensive. It's what I used to wire my 15" MGs, with superb results! Observe the thin black and blue cable below, on my own crossovers:
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5278/tannoycrossovers2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/576/tannoycrossovers2.jpg/)
CS-14 Hybrid is available as a special order from any major VDH stockist. I got mine on-line, from Futureshop: http://www.futureshop.co.uk/index.php
:cool:
Marco.
Thanks Marco for your recommendation.
I was also thinking about the VDH but I really would like to use some litz cable and try the Cardas. I just don't know what gauge to buy.
I like the "Wind" external wires Marco uses, so it makes sense to use similar related cables inside. I myself was going to suggest annealed copper wire as used in the crossover inductors, as another few tens of centimeters from crossover to driver won't add anything.
Well, personally, I wouldn't use anything too thick. The most important thing, IME, when wiring speakers internally, is getting good solder joints with hard-wiring (always my preferred method, as I dislike using 'choccy blocks'), which isn't easy with thick cable! ;)
For me, hard-wired crossovers, using easy to work with high-quality thin cable, and thus achieving superb solder joints (and therefore excellent signal integrity), is much better than crossovers wired together with terminal blocks and thick cable, or thick cable with poor solder joints.
Marco.
I like the "Wind" external wires Marco uses, so it makes sense to use similar related cables inside.
Trouble is, Dave, it's very thick and difficult to hard-wire with. Externally, however, it is utterly superb!
Marco.
My typing does it again. You're quite correct of course, but what I was trying to convey is that what you have internally is related, if a finer and more manageable gauge, if you see what I mean :)
Yes, absolutely! :)
IMO, heavy gauge speaker cable, for internal use, is a total waste of money.
Marco.
Thanks Marco for the internal wire recommendation, I was trying to find good replacement wire. currently im seeking new boxes for some rescued technics sb-f900's, cheap and cheerful i know but they'll make good bookshelf speakers, nice sound from them too.
Vencel, Would 18 AWG. fill the bill?
With short runs absorption and capacitance are of NO CONCERN AT ALL!
We are talking Nano Farrads.
The thing that matters most is the wires ability to reject monophonics from internal vibration mostly in the 70hz. through 20 hz. range.
Get some Audison silver or Sonus I can get some for a U.S. dollar or so a foot and can send it to you. It's made in Italy and used in Ferrari if you buy there upgrade sound system so I've read. Very nice stuff and I get a good deal on it.
It is directional do follow the >>>> it's all in the braid.
I would never use anything else inside a speaker. I used 14 awg.
If you email me I will send you pictures as I promised not to post my Xovers on any forum.
BTW, Marco your cross over has dubbies in place of resistors!
I use a 25 watt Weller iron with WBT solder And tin my wire first then heat the bundle and you cant pull my joints apart using 14 AWG wire but you must pool the solder and it may mean having a beer nearby for patents and a steady hand.
12 awg. and larger would be a major pain in the arss though.
BTW, Marco your cross over has dubbies in place of resistors!
Ha - them's Duelund resistors, baby. See here: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund_resistors.html
And bloody fab they are, too :trust:
I use a 25 watt Weller iron with WBT solder And tin my wire first then heat the bundle and you cant pull my joints apart using 14 AWG wire but you must pool the solder and it may mean having a beer nearby for patents and a steady hand.
12 awg. and larger would be a major pain in the arss though.
Indeed. Thing is, as we're talking about tiny amounts of cable, there is absolutely 'hee-haw' difference (a rather quaint, and in this instance useful, Scottish expression) between using a high-quality thin cable, like VDH CS-14 hybrid, and what you are proposing... Trust me! ;)
Marco.
Ha - them's Duelund resistors, baby. See here: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund_resistors.html
And bloody fab they are, too :trust:
Indeed. Thing is, as we're talking about tiny amounts of cable, there is absolutely 'hee-haw' difference (a rather quaint Scottish expression) between using a high-quality thin cable, like VDH CS-14 hybrid, and what you are proposing... Trust me! ;)
Marco.
Hello,
Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Maybe I misunderstood something or was not clear enough.
Basically I am looking for a cable only between the original crossover and the speaker itself. I am not planning to change the wiring in the crossover itself.
Thanks,
Vencel
Ah, that's a very different matter!
Marco.
Ah, that's a very different matter!
Marco.
Cheers Marco,
So what gauge is recommended for this cable (between crossover box and the driver - that is around 70-80cms)?
Currently I have some 21AWG wire but I am not sure if it is OK or I should go for a thicker one?!
I wonder if it is important since the wires in the cable between the crossover and the roll-off selector are thin as well as the original wires between the driver and the crossover are also not very thick.
Thanks!
Hi Vencel,
So basically, you've separated your crossovers from the speaker enclosures?
In that case, I'd fit the same cable as you use from your power amp to your main speaker terminals, in order to keep everything the same and not introduce any other variables :)
Marco.
No, I did not separate it just I would like to change the original cable to something new and better.
I am talking about an 80cm long cable which consists of 3 wires (1 to woofer, 1 to tweeter and 1 common negative - if I am not mistaken about it).
I am planning to keep the original 4 pin connector.
Hi Vencel,
So basically, you've separated your crossovers from the speaker enclosures?
In that case, I'd fit the same cable as you use from your power amp to your main speaker terminals, in order to keep everything the same and not introduce any other variables :)
Marco.
Lol - right, in that case, I'd still use the same cable as your main speaker cable, provided that it will fit successfully into the 4-pin connector.
Or put it this way, use as thick a cable as you can that will fit properly into the connector and also solder nicely to the crossovers themselves :)
Marco.
Hi Vencel,
I can thoroughly recommend VDH CS-14 Hybrid: http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx
High-quality, easy to work with, and not too expensive. It's what I used to wire my 15" MGs, with superb results! Observe the thin black and blue cable below, on my own crossovers:
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5278/tannoycrossovers2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/576/tannoycrossovers2.jpg/)
CS-14 Hybrid is available as a special order from any major VDH stockist. I got mine on-line, from Futureshop: http://www.futureshop.co.uk/index.php
:cool:
Marco.
Does the CS-14 Hybrid have a sort of centre core to it?
Hi Rob,
Not as far as I remember. If you click on this link it shows you an actual picture of the cable and describes its construction in more detail:
http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AE.aspx
Marco.
Marco,
Thanks. It was just that from your pics the cable looks very similar to a Profigold cable that Maplin sold for £9.99 per metre and then reduced to 99p per metre, which is when I bought some. It has a lot of very fine silver coated copper conductors but a thin centre core (of I believe copper) The VDH has a centre core which it suggests is a carbon hybrid. Is the cable stiff:eyebrows: or flexible.
Rob
Lol - not especially, but it's not floppy either, although that could because it's not very thick :eyebrows:
I believe that CS-14 Hybrid is around £5 a metre, which considering that in most applications you're not likely to need much more than a couple of metres for each speaker, is buttons :)
Marco.
Thanks a lot for all the answers and help!
speaker cabinets. I used DH Labs Silver Sonic T-14 which is made thus:
"The process begins with strands of high purity OFC copper, which are individually coated with a thick layer of silver. The strands are then tightly wound and extruded with our PTFE insulation. Silver Sonic T-14 uses PTFE, which is the finest dielectric available for speaker cables. The cable has a very low capacitance of 21.5 pico-farads per foot. The inductance is also very low, which allows consistent performance with a wide variety of speakers. In fact, a ten foot length of T-14 cable has less inductance than the output stages of many amplifiers! Vibration damping spacers and a tensioned wrap under the jacket hold the conductors tightly in place, and the cable is completely free from resonances and microphonic effects that cause a loss of resolution."
Inside the speaker box I made sure the wires were unable to flop around to reduce vibration.
IPL Acoustics HU1 cable is my personal choice for this application.
http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_cables.htm
Ammonite Audio
09-03-2012, 14:16
I own a pair of Lancasters with MG15 drivers, and the thickness of the internal wiring definitely becomes an issue if you want to retain the little 4-pin Tannoy connectors, which can only accept relatively thin cabling. If anyone is planning to bypass those connectors altogether, it's clearly not an issue, of course. The Van Damme stuff has a good reputation and I'm tempted to use the 1.5mm stuff (see http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/1564/van-damme-studio-grade-blue-speaker-cable-1-5mm )
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